Withdrew from BS/MD program, disclose on AMCAS?

[bshap000]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hi all,

I'm currently in my junior year UG, I was in an 8 yr BS/MS/MD program, but due to the stringent requirements about sGPA and cGPA, frequent rechecking for dismissal, and a frontload of nasty classes, I was given the option of withdrawing or being kicked out last spring. I (obviously) chose to withdraw, and that is officially what happened.

The program required an overall sGPA and cGPA of no less than 3.500 (the zeros matter -- no rounding), and my school is on trimesters, grades were checked after EVERY winter term and EVERY spring term --- including my first term at college.

My question is twofold. First, will medical school see the withdrawal? Second, should I disclose it on apps, and if so where?



Background info: (If this makes any difference)
Currently I have a 3.4 cGPA/3.26 sGPA, 33 MCAT (first and last try, aug 2014), and extensive volunteering, basic research and clinical research (since high school). I have presented 4 research posters, and should have a publication before I apply.

Also complicating things... one school I'm applying to is the school the 8yr program was with... My MCAT is super competitive for them.

Any thoughts?

 

[redteabag]

Sorry this doesn't answer your question. why would you prioritize significant time into research if you were already in a bs/md program and you knew you were falling behind in grades? does your bs/md program require research and/or publications to progress?

 

[gyngyn]

The AMCAS primary has a place to explain previous matriculation.
Acceptance into a BS/MD program could reasonably be considered a matriculation into an MD program.
The opportunity to explain is given.

 

[bshap000]

Sorry this doesn't answer your question. why would you prioritize significant time into research if you were already in a bs/md program and you knew you were falling behind in grades? does your bs/md program require research and/or publications to progress?

My research really had no bearing on my grades, they occurred at different times (research in the summers, school during school)... The school I went to is just a hard school.

The AMCAS primary has a place to explain previous matriculation.
Acceptance into a BS/MD program could reasonably be considered a matriculation into an MD program.
The opportunity to explain is given.

Well, I don't believe I ever actually matriculated, but I did fill out a secondary app for the medical school during the process.
I know the opportunity is given, my question is should I mention it? My gut feeling is no, but would that come across as withholding information?

 

[gyngyn]

Well, I don't believe I ever actually matriculated, but I did fill out a secondary app for the medical school during the process.
I know the opportunity is given, my question is should I mention it? My gut feeling is no, but would that come across as withholding information?

Were you accepted into the program after applying?
Did you receive counseling, take classes or participate in any activities with the other BS/MD students?

 

[bshap000]

Were you accepted into the program after applying?
Did you receive counseling, take classes or participate in any activities with the other BS/MD students?

Yes, I was accepted, I took two required grad classes, and I was in the BS/MD program's advising track. However, I never took a class at the medical school, nor was I ever considered matriculated there. I was matriculated at the UG and grad schools. I believe the way it was phrased it was just that I was guaranteed a spot when I did matriculate. I'd have to check the original contract though.

 

[gyngyn]

Yes, I was accepted, I took two required grad classes, and I was in the BS/MD program's advising track. However, I never took a class at the medical school, nor was I ever considered matriculated there. I was matriculated at the UG and grad schools. I believe the way it was phrased it was just that I was guaranteed a spot when I did matriculate. I'd have to check the original contract though.

Many reasonable people would consider this matriculation into an MD program.

 

[bshap000]

Many reasonable people would consider this matriculation into an MD program.

Well, this could be a problem. I'll have to look into this further. Thanks for your help though!!

 

[gyngyn]

Well, this could be a problem. I'll have to look into this further. Thanks for your help though!!

You do get the opportunity to explain. It's not necessarily a red flag.

 

[DermViser]

The AMCAS primary has a place to explain previous matriculation.
Acceptance into a BS/MD program could reasonably be considered a matriculation into an MD program.
The opportunity to explain is given.

Depends if he was officially taking MD classes or not.

 

[gyngyn]

Depends if he was officially taking MD classes or not.

Many reasonable observers would consider matriculation into a bach MD program a matriculation into an MD program.
Though some may differ, OP would be playing it safe to respond in the affirmative with the opportunity to explain his withdrawal (at least, this is what our lawyers have advised us...).

 

[DermViser]

Many reasonable observers would consider matriculation into a bach MD program a matriculation into an MD program. Though some may differ, OP would be playing it safe to respond in the affirmative with the opportunity to explain his withdrawal (at least, this is what our lawyers have advised us...).

Except BS/MD programs aren't fully integrated programs, in which you take any medical coursework or meet with a medical school advisor during the undergrad years. Most of them work in which during the Bachelor's phase you are fully under the jurisdiction and policies of the College of Arts and Sciences (or whatever college your major falls under), you received you undergraduate degree and THEN you move on to the med school. Your major or degree isn't a BS-MD degree on your transcript.

 

[DarthKat]

Many reasonable observers would consider matriculation into a bach MD program a matriculation into an MD program.
Though some may differ, OP would be playing it safe to respond in the affirmative with the opportunity to explain his withdrawal (at least, this is what our lawyers have advised us...).

Does this mean if someone is accepted to a BS/MD program after HS and decides not to attend, they have to report that to AMCAS?

 

[gyngyn]

Except BS/MD programs aren't fully integrated programs, in which you take any medical coursework or meet with a medical school advisor during the undergrad years. Most of them work in which during the Bachelor's phase you are fully under the jurisdiction and policies of the College of Arts and Sciences (or whatever college your major falls under), you received you undergraduate degree and THEN you move on to the med school. Your major or degree isn't a BS-MD degree on your transcript.

I understand. The only real problem is if an evaluator views this differently. In much the same way that the appearance of impropriety must be avoided in the application, disclosure helps the applicant in this case.

I have seen this become an issue when an LOR includes the information and it is not addressed in the pertinent parts of the primary.

 

[gyngyn]

Does this mean if someone is accepted to a BS/MD program after HS and decides not to attend, they have to report that to AMCAS?

If he never attends, no.

 

[DermViser]

I understand. The only real problem is if an evaluator views this differently. In much the same way that the appearance of impropriety must be avoided in the application, disclosure helps the applicant in this case.

I have seen this become an issue when an LOR includes the information and it is not addressed in the pertinent parts of the primary.

I guess how would an evaluator know? The only academic record is your transcript - unless the transcripts states you were a BS/MD and then changed your major. All your coursework is with undergrad students.

 

[gyngyn]

I guess how would an evaluator know? The only academic record is your transcript - unless the transcripts states you were a BS/MD and then changed your major. All your coursework is with undergrad students.

Both transcripts and letter writers open the possibility for an apparent discordance. Professors are aware which students are B/MD's. If their letter starts with: OP is one of the very special students chosen for our very selective BMD program... there will be the appearance of non-disclosure. That is why a clear explanation would be my recommendation. There is little chance of harm from disclosure.

 

[DermViser]

Both transcripts and letter writers open the possibility for an apparent discordance. That is why a clear explanation would be my recommendation. There is little chance of harm from disclosure.

I'm just saying there is a way for it to be concordant. It's been a while for me, but the only things med schools ask with respect to documentation I believe is your transcript and any IAs. OP should cough up money for a transcript and then see exactly what is said on it and see if any institutional actions by the med school that are put on it. Unless her LORs are from faculty at the med school in question who might put down she was a BS-MD student (if they even know that about her). It would be different if she enrolled in medical school coursework -- some schools as part of their curriculum can have "special" BS/MD courses that only those in the program enroll in in the undergrad -- more just either extra volunteering, special medical topic lectures on public health, yada yada -- then she'd have to list it.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm just saying there is a way for it to be concordant. It's been a while for me, but the only things med schools ask with respect to documentation I believe is your transcript and any IAs. OP should cough up money for a transcript and then see exactly what is said on it and see if any institutional actions by the med school that are put on it. Unless her LORs are from faculty at the med school in question who might put down she was a BS-MD student (if they even know that about her). It would be different if she enrolled in medical school coursework -- some schools as part of their curriculum can have "special" BS/MD courses that only those in the program enroll in in the undergrad -- more just either extra volunteering, special medical topic lectures on public health, yada yada

I don't disagree with your contention that OP has not actually matriculated. Sadly, others view this differently. If an LOR writer (in an attempt to characterize the OP's "specialness") includes old information about his status, OP could be viewed as disingenuous. I have seen this. I must add that university lawyers have informed me that B/MD students are to be considered to have the same rights and privileges as other MD students at the school where they have matriculated. I also disagree with this, but this is admittedly a gray area where one must tread carefully.

 

[DermViser]

I don't disagree with your contention that OP has not actually matriculated. Sadly, others view this differently. If an LOR writer (in an attempt to characterize the OP's "specialness") includes old information about his status, OP could be viewed as disingenuous. I have seen this.

No, I agree with you. If I was in OP's position I wouldn't even be getting LORs from medical school faculty at all. Usually for LOR writers, you give them your CV saying exactly what your education is.

 

[bshap000]

No, I agree with you. If I was in OP's position I wouldn't even be getting LORs from medical school faculty at all. Usually for LOR writers, you give them your CV saying exactly what your education is.

OP here. I wasn't planning on getting LOR's from anyone at the MD school from this program, and I don't imagine any letter writers would mention it given that I withdrew. My primary worry is that there is official documentation on file that I was in the program, and an official letter stating that I withdrew. Also, the HPAC chair was the advisor for the program, so, while I doubt she'd put anything regarding the BS/MD program in the committee packet, I don't know for sure.

I'll have to check if med schools have access to those files. This happens often with this program though, so there must be a procedure of some sort. I'll just have to ask.

 

[TonyP]

I'm in a similar situation with the option of being dismissed or encouraged to withdraw
How did it work out for you?

Did you have to report the withdrawal? Would a dismissal appear on transcript and have to be reported? Did advisor note it in letters of rec or files sent to med school. Thanks.

 

[bshap000]

Absolutely withdraw if you're going to be dismissed, a dismissal is lethal.

The only school I reported anything to was the actual med school the program was through, due to the way their secondary was worded. The advisor did mention it, but only because I asked her to, so it wouldn't come off as hiding something. You should definitely talk to your advisor. If you want to talk about this more specifically, PM me.

 

[TonyP]

Thanks - not sure how to PM