withdrew from medical school, can I be reinstated years from now?

[hallowmann]

Med school and life isn't about fairness! It isn't fair when a physician screws up and a patient dies but it happens, it isn't fair when someone works really hard but fails out of med school but it happens, it really isn't fair that we all weren't born wealthy. It isn't fair that someone with a below avg IQ can't be a physician and yes it even means that person is discriminated against due to something beyond their control, but certain capabilities are just required and having another person there telling them what to do is just not reasonable.

Life isn't fair, so get over this social idea of fairness is required for a career in medicine. If someone has a disability and CAN perform on par (with reasonable accommodation) then absolutely they should, if they meet the same standards as other premeds, be given a shot. But in reality not every disability can be reasonably overcome, sorry life isn't fair.

Patients deserve a doctor that can provide them with an appropriate level of care and making someone a physician just to make people feel good about themselves is not a strategy for accomplishing that.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

No one is disagreeing with you. Obviously if someone is unable to provide care with reasonable accommodations they're unable to be a physician. No one is advocating otherwise. What's being advocated is exactly what you have described bolded above.

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[Rekt]

Your bolded words are outdated in the post MD/DO expansion era.

There are a ton of schools where failing 2 classes in a year = dismissal at both MD/DO schools. At my USMD school, you can now also be dismissed for marginal performance (up to 75%) in two classes, which is a brand new way that a school can dismiss students.

Most admins only care about one thing: match rate.

I highly doubt the admins at OP's school cared about what was going on with the OP. Once they saw the OP wasn't doing well = easy dismissal as per school policies to maintain the match rate.

This.

My school doesn't give a single **** about us. They increased the difficulty of exam questions this year due to board score goals not being met and the class average dropped from the low 80s to low 70s for all the exams so far. You're also now gone if you fail more than one class.

 

[ortnakas]

This.

My school doesn't give a single **** about us. They increased the difficulty of exam questions this year due to board score goals not being met and the class average dropped from the low 80s to low 70s for all the exams so far. You're also now gone if you fail more than one class.

Gone-gone, or have-to-repeat-the-year-gone? Any chance to remediate? If not, that's brutal.

 

[darknecrosforte]

This.

My school doesn't give a single **** about us. They increased the difficulty of exam questions this year due to board score goals not being met and the class average dropped from the low 80s to low 70s for all the exams so far. You're also now gone if you fail more than one class.

 

[tony101]

My notion is that OP has more than s/he is letting on, and may have been on very thin ice. Hence, the two failures merited dismissal, not a LOA.

At my school, students with more extreme behavioral issues that bleed into academics tend to get contractually bound to live up to certain standards, else face dismissal. No middle ground.

So you think if he was completely fine(or something else wasn't going on) and passed both tests(first time) and then failed 2 rotations, normally that wouldn't be grounds for dismissal(as in no LOA). Because I'm not sure what you mean by thin ice(Very curious)

 

[tony101]

This.

My school doesn't give a single **** about us. They increased the difficulty of exam questions this year due to board score goals not being met and the class average dropped from the low 80s to low 70s for all the exams so far. You're also now gone if you fail more than one class.

May I ask, what school are you going too? How do you know if a school does that? Does ACOM do that? lol

 

[samac]

Lol. The "dumbest" medical student has more intelligence and capabilities than 99% of NPs.

But, who am I kidding, I'm debating someone who referred to their NP as a physician. Lol

.... What now?

You're going to be popular in your hospital with the nurses.

 

[hallowmann]

May I ask, what school are you going too? How do you know if a school does that? Does ACOM do that? lol

Look in the student handbook at the promotion, graduation, and remediation guidelines. Seriously, everyone should do that before they start at a school. Obviously also ask current students if you can get in touch with some, but they really might not even know if they never had to deal with it.

 

[tony101]

Look in the student handbook at the promotion, graduation, and remediation guidelines. Seriously, everyone should do that before they start at a school. Obviously also ask current students if you can get in touch with some, but they really might not even know if they never had to deal with it.

http://www.acomedu.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ACOM-Student-Handbook-2013-2014.pdf
Page 48:
It says if you fail a class(JUST ONE CLASS), they have the ability to dismiss you from ACOM? Are you joking me? That's ridiculous(Not that I've ever failed a college class) but still ONE CLASS?

 

[hallowmann]

http://www.acomedu.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ACOM-Student-Handbook-2013-2014.pdf
Page 48:
It says if you fail a class(JUST ONE CLASS), they have the ability to dismiss you from ACOM? Are you joking me? That's ridiculous(Not that I've ever failed a college class) but still ONE CLASS?

Hm. That policy seems a little harsh. Realistically I doubt they will dismiss you unless you're failing multiple things. If you just barely fail one course, I imagine most promotion committees would make you remediate.

I looked at my school's again just to be sure, and basically you get kicked to SPG (which decides about remediation, repeating the year, or dismissal) if you fail more than 1 course in a year, fail a single course's remediation (<75% on remediation exam) or specifically if you fail PBL below 65% (65%-69% goes first to remediation). For context, failing PBL for us would basically be tantamount to failing 1/2 - 3/4 of the semester. You also get sent to SPG for other random stuff like cheating, professionalism issues, etc., but I think that is pretty standard across schools.

 

[DrMikeP]

No one is disagreeing with you. Obviously if someone is unable to provide care with reasonable accommodations they're unable to be a physician. No one is advocating otherwise. What's being advocated is exactly what you have described bolded above.

You say obviously, but read some of the various posts on SDN and you will find too many people who think that everyone deserves a gold star, trophy, and admission to med school no matter what, when they just plain and simple are not capable of performing. With quite a few schools getting 15K apps there are enough stellar candidates with exceptional stats that schools don't have to accommodate someone with an apparent challenge unless they just decide they want to (likely for free publicity), just the way it is. Anyways, this is way off topic.. So I'm back to studying.

 

[Goro]

Sorry to hear this, Rekt. At my school, we'd write better questions, not harder ones. But if previously you were being asked all first order questions, then they were doing you a disservice to begin with. Do any of your faculty write questions for NBOME? if not, they should. If they do, then they should already be at the level you need to be. There may be some curriculum issues that they don't want to fix. Let's say the Dean was a surgeon, and placed an extra emphasis on surgical subjects in your classes (like Neurosurgery in your Neurology class, or heart surgery in your cardiology class.) Pretty soon you swallowed up a chunk of the curriculum on something that would never appear on COMLEX, nor would be of any help until your surgery rotation. meanwhile, other stuff you do need to know about got deleted!

When I was on faculty at IU, failing two classes would lead to dismissal as well. This is quite common at both MD and DO schools. everything depends upon what's written in the Student Handbook.

This.
My school doesn't give a single **** about us. They increased the difficulty of exam questions this year due to board score goals not being met and the class average dropped from the low 80s to low 70s for all the exams so far. You're also now gone if you fail more than one class.

That's a hard question to answer because failing two rotations is extremely rare for my my students.

Thin ice means that this was a very troublesome student and so more eyeballs were upon him/her, and as such, there would be less leniency than for someone who, say, was a low pass student (but never failed anything) and who only failed one rotation.

So you think if he was completely fine(or something else wasn't going on) and passed both tests(first time) and then failed 2 rotations, normally that wouldn't be grounds for dismissal(as in no LOA). Because I'm not sure what you mean by thin ice(Very curious)

 

[Goro]

I've noticed this mindset too! Everybody gets a trophy and nobody fails. Do schools even have F grades anymore???

You say obviously, but read some of the various posts on SDN and you will find too many people who think that everyone deserves a gold star, trophy, and admission to med school no matter what, when they just plain and simple are not capable of performing. With quite a few schools getting 15K apps there are enough stellar candidates with exceptional stats that schools don't have to accommodate someone with an apparent challenge unless they just decide they want to (likely for free publicity), just the way it is. Anyways, this is way off topic.. So I'm back to studying.

 

[justin1390]

I've noticed this mindset too! Everybody gets a trophy and nobody fails. Do schools even have F grades anymore???

Man, at my med school, the average was pass-high pass. The grade breaks were 92% for honors, 86% for high pass, 67% pass, and 66% Marginal pass. The class average on most exams was 76%. First year 12 students of 178ish dropped. Second year another 6-8 drop. The class ahead of me had nearly two dozen fail second year and have to repeat. Where are these elusive trophy-happy schools? I seem to have been out of the loop.

 

[tony101]

When I was on faculty at IU, failing two classes would lead to dismissal as well. This is quite common at both MD and DO schools. everything depends upon what's written in the Student Handbook.

Do you mean in one semester, or do you mean overall? Like failing 2 classes = automatic dismissal in 2 years total(So 4 semesters)

 

[Goro]

Like two classes in two years

Do you mean in one semester, or do you mean overall? Like failing 2 classes = automatic dismissal in 2 years total(So 4 semesters)

 

[tony101]

Like two classes in two years

Woa really? Like I said, I never failed a class in undergrad but wow that's intense. So it's usually automatic dismissal from school if you fail 2 classes? Damn that is intense. All that work and not a lot of slip ups allowed lol

 

[67552931811]

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[67552931811]

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[samac]

I have family members who are nurses and I've been around the health care field probably longer than you have been alive: I'll be more than popular, actually. Also, most actual nurses hate when nps act like noctors. Have you ever actually worked in a hospital?

Still doesn't change the factual basis of my statement. nps aren't trained in medicine, they are trained in nursing-- it's not rocket science.

Ergo, you should probably ask yourself, "What now?"

I've been around medicine my entire life. I know many nurse practitioners who do just as well as physician and some who are absolutely superb. In my state they have full practice rights other than prescribing narcotics.
I don't care how long you've been around medicine, if you have this "holier than thou" attitude you're portraying here they will hate you throughout that hospital.
Saying NPs are "below the dumbest of med students" is just ignorant and uniformed.
I'm a 2nd year, far from the "dumbest" medical student and nurse practitioners are still far beyond my scope of knowledge.
When I'm finished with my medical training will I have more knowledge than most? Probably. Will that make me a better practitioner than NP's who have been doing their job for 10-20 years? Absolutely not.

 

[tony101]

What's there to be threatened by? I, for one, welcome mid level independence. Once those *****s start killing people without doctors saving their ass, the lay will quickly change their tune. I think someone with a PhD who just reads slides to medical students should be much more worried about job security.

I guess therapeutic dogs can be someone's "doctor" by your definition. Lol-- you are clueless. Enjoy your one hour lecture and then 8 hour SDN fest tomorrow.

Are you saying that saying NP's(which are as good as some doctors) is the same thing as calling a therapeutic dog a doctor? As in it's the same stretch for both? That is beyond insulting because ALL the staff in the hospital is important.

Specialists, General doctors, PA's, NP's, Nurses, Technicians, receptionists,etc. All do their part in the hospital to allow it to work and benefit each patient they meet. To have an attitude that is so insulting to someone as skilled as a NP and say such condescending things shows the type of character you posses and quite frankly, I have pity for any patients you ever have.

 

[67552931811]

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[tennischamp822]

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[67552931811]

.

 

[tony101]

? Literally no one besides a doctor is NEEDED to make a hospital run. We can book our own appointments, collect our own vitals, etc.. etc.. However, without a doctor, a hospital can't run. Literally everything CAN BE done by a doctor. But, we don't... for obvious reasons (I guess not so obvious). Once you turn 21 and actually grow up and move out of the nest you will see what life is actually like.

Seriously, kid. A- You have no idea what you are talking about. B- You know literally nothing about me so I could not care less what some random d bag on sdn thinks about me.

Really? Without an engineer, how will you get your machinery up to operate? Without crafters, how can you get your tools? Without a construction team, how will you build your hospital? Without a specialist, what is a general doctor good for? Without every specialist, how can you know every part of the body?

It is all about the team and team effort. Doctors do a lot but a ton of work is done in between for the doctor to function properly. I was at the doctors office recently shadowing and he did the patients but all the paperwork, phone calls, booking, bills, etc were done by other people. Don't make it seem like it is a one man show with it is anything but that. BTW I'm not 21 years old and it doesn't take a 60 year old expert to understand how egotistical and condescending you are to others for no reason what so ever.

Again I have pity for any patients you may ever have with such an egotistical, toxic attitude about everyone else but yourself.

 

[samac]

Riiiight. And I know undergrad students who teach intro bio just as good as professors......

I don't have any attitude. You know absolutely **** about me. Literally nothing. All you did was show up to a party that no one invited you to. And, as far as MEDICAL training goes, they are. In regards to medical knowledge, they are, by definition, "dumb"-- because they don't have any-- they have nursing. How are you not following this?

^Keep drinking the kool aid. Your employee status awaits you. Cheers.

Oh really, there's no attitude here at all?
I dont even know why I engaged with you at all, I see you thoroughout this forum and I realize you're always right and everyone else in all threads is wrong.
If you think NP's are medically dumb I don't even know what else to say to you. They aren't as trained as physicians, no. But that doesn't make them dumb. I don't even understand how you could refer to a college like that.

If the kool-aid is respecting my fellow medical professionals than I'll drink it all day.
Enjoy your career as the doctor that everyone hates because everyone knows you think you're better than them.

 

[67552931811]

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[67552931811]

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[Goro]

It depends upon the school, but yes, it's very common that two failures can be lethal. BUT, more common when it's two failures in a single semester or year (depends upon the curriculum) vs two failures over two years. The closer one is to the bottom of Class, the riskier it is for the student. There's a lot of nuance built into this.

Woa really? Like I said, I never failed a class in undergrad but wow that's intense. So it's usually automatic dismissal from school if you fail 2 classes? Damn that is intense. All that work and not a lot of slip ups allowed lol

 

[Mr Roboto]

It depends upon the school, but yes, it's very common that two failures can be lethal. BUT, more common when it's two failures in a single semester or year (depends upon the curriculum) vs two failures over two years. The closer one is to the bottom of Class, the riskier it is for the student. There's a lot of nuance built into this.

How many classes should a student be able to fail before it's apparent they're just not cut out for medical school...

 

[Goro]

Oh, spare me the faux outrage and concern about patients, Hawkie. This is all about you not being the Big Cheese. Your elitism alone is stifling.

If you haven't noticed, Medicine is a team sport nowadays. Even a quarterback is useless without all those blockers to save him from linebackers.

When Pubmed has data showing the midlevels are a threat to patient safety, then I'll take you seriously. In the meantime, you're not going to be the top of the heap anymore...the CFO of your HMO is.

Look, there's a PA! Try to stay calm.

Applying Ignore function now. You'll feel a slight stinging sensation.

What's there to be threatened by? I, for one, welcome mid level independence. Once those *****s start killing people without doctors saving their ass, the lay will quickly change their tune. I think someone with a PhD who just reads slides to medical students should be much more worried about job security.

I guess therapeutic dogs can be someone's "doctor" by your definition. Lol-- you are clueless. Enjoy your one hour lecture and then 8 hour SDN fest tomorrow.

This is an outstanding question. It has to be taken in context of how the student is doing overall. My belief is that worse the student is doing, and the earlier these deficits are appearing, then it's better for the student to be let go, and avoid a mountain of debt. The later you get, the more we should try to help the student succeed, especially if the student has done well previously, and life events are causing the problem. All bets are off if professionalism issues are happening at any time.

How many classes should a student be able to fail before it's apparent they're just not cut out for medical school...

 

[67552931811]

Oh, spare me the faux outrage and concern about patients, Hawkie. This is all about you not being the Big Cheese. Your elitism alone is stifling.

If you haven't noticed, Medicine is a team sport nowadays. Even a quarterback is useless without all those blockers to save him from linebackers.

When Pubmed has data showing the midlevels are a threat to patient safety, then I'll take you seriously. In the meantime, you're not going to be the top of the heap anymore...the CFO of your HMO is.

Look, there's a PA! Try to stay calm.

Applying Ignore function now. You'll feel a slight stinging sensation.

What's there to be threatened by? I, for one, welcome mid level independence. Once those *****s start killing people without doctors saving their ass, the lay will quickly change their tune. I think someone with a PhD who just reads slides to medical students should be much more worried about job security.

I guess therapeutic dogs can be someone's "doctor" by your definition. Lol-- you are clueless. Enjoy your one hour lecture and then 8 hour SDN fest tomorrow.

This is an outstanding question. It has to be taken in context of how the student is doing overall. My belief is that worse the student is doing, and the earlier these deficits are appearing, then it's better for the student to be let go, and avoid a mountain of debt. The later you get, the more we should try to help the student succeed, especially if the student has done well previously, and life events are causing the problem. All bets are off if professionalism issues are happening at any time.

Per the usual, you talk straight from the wrong side of the alimentary canal. Stop putting words in my mouth. Your entire response(s) are based off assumption. Such an idiotic outlook.

LOL, as if I care some random bag of a PhD who spends his day on an internet forum "ignores" me... Try spending more time with your kids or cat, man. Seriously, get a life.

And, I'll be cash only so no HMO for me buddy ; ).

 

[tony101]

It depends upon the school, but yes, it's very common that two failures can be lethal. BUT, more common when it's two failures in a single semester or year (depends upon the curriculum) vs two failures over two years. The closer one is to the bottom of Class, the riskier it is for the student. There's a lot of nuance built into this.

So lets say the student does extremely well in almost all classes BUT struggles in one class, and fails this class and another(but does extremely well in everything else). In this situation, they wouldn't just dismiss the student outright correct? The way it sounds, they would talk to the student and try to fix the problem before they did anything drastic right?

 

[samac]

So lets say the student does extremely well in almost all classes BUT struggles in one class, and fails this class and another(but does extremely well in everything else). In this situation, they wouldn't just dismiss the student outright correct? The way it sounds, they would talk to the student and try to fix the problem before they did anything drastic right?

Depends. My friend was straight up dismissed for a similar situation because she didn't have a good reason for failing and didn't communicate with professors about her situation throughout the year.
Those who had a good reason, communicated about their issues with the professors, and actively sought out help are back in the class below us.

 

[Goro]

At my school, intervene early and often to make sure struggling students don't fail. Schools are obligated to do this.

I think this would be handled on a case-by-case basis.

EDIT.

I think that in a situation like this, the student would simply remediate the course. IF said student failed the remediation, then s/he'd probably have to repeat the year. I simply forgot about remediations and repeats!

So lets say the student does extremely well in almost all classes BUT struggles in one class, and fails this class and another(but does extremely well in everything else). In this situation, they wouldn't just dismiss the student outright correct? The way it sounds, they would talk to the student and try to fix the problem before they did anything drastic right?

 

[tony101]

At my school, intervene early and often to make sure struggling students don't fail. Schools are obligated to do this.

I think this would be handled on a case-by-case basis.

EDIT.

I think that in a situation like this, the student would simply remediate the course. IF said student failed the remediation, then s/he'd probably have to repeat the year. I simply forgot about remediations and repeats!

Okay so schools do try hard to keep the students. They don't just say "Oh you failed, get out". Which is what I thought schools were going for when I read my student handbook lol

 

[hallowmann]

Okay so schools do try hard to keep the students. They don't just say "Oh you failed, get out". Which is what I thought schools were going for when I read my student handbook lol

One of the most important things is to seek out help. If you're struggling, go see your professor right away. See your learning center, make use of tutors, etc. Get help BEFORE you fail. At that point even if you do fail, at least it shows you recognized it and were trying to fix the situation.

Don't think to yourself, "oh all I need to do is get a 90 on the last exam" when you've been averaging in the 70s. Don't think, "oh I can turn this around on my own". Seek out help ASAP. This is medicine, not being able to know when you need help and not seeking it from those around you is worse than a knowledge deficit. You need to know your limitations.

Just keep that in mind. In anatomy at my school first year, many people struggling didn't want to go to the tutors. You know what they found when they finally caved and did? They found that 50-70% of the class was already getting help from the tutors, even the people doing well. They learned what and how to study from people that just did it the year before, and that's why they were doing well. Don't hesitate to ask for help. Its damning.

 

[darknecrosforte]

Just keep that in mind. In anatomy at my school first year, many people struggling didn't want to go to the tutors. You know what they found when they finally caved and did? They found that 50-70% of the class was already getting help from the tutors, even the people doing well. They learned what and how to study from people that just did it the year before, and that's why they were doing well. Don't hesitate to ask for help. Its damning.

My school sets up a few inter-class buddy meetups and though I would have rather skipped those events, I can confirm that talking to the previous class is high yield af. Especially the honors students. They tend to be more truthful because even if they're gunners, they are not in direct competition with you. Be sure to ask about any trends they noticed in performance between groups and across material. Typical studying archetypes are PPT reviewers, note re-writers, SRS people, artists re-drawing stuff, and the hands-on people. Apparently, the best performers either study 100% alone (mysterious) or study in a "trustworthy" group mostly in silence for 4-5 hours every day, ending the session with rapid pimp questioning for about 15 minutes. Trustworthiness was an ambiguous term used by several upperclassmen and I interpret that to mean being disciplined, having similar work ethic/standards as you, and conscientiousness. Basically "not-a-free-loader".

I'm also finding that Anki is generally overkill short term for anatomy. Was told it is amazing for the biochem, histo, and cell biology though.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Lowly non trad currently trying to get into medical school here, but how does one not develop proper people skills in a clinical sense and thusly fail?

Ive been a medical assistant working directly with people for about 6 years now, and its really not that hard to talk to people.

I understand that there is probably an academic component to 3rd year such as more tests, but it seems like the OP was having trouble with people.

 

[tony101]

One of the most important things is to seek out help. If you're struggling, go see your professor right away. See your learning center, make use of tutors, etc. Get help BEFORE you fail. At that point even if you do fail, at least it shows you recognized it and were trying to fix the situation.

Don't think to yourself, "oh all I need to do is get a 90 on the last exam" when you've been averaging in the 70s. Don't think, "oh I can turn this around on my own". Seek out help ASAP. This is medicine, not being able to know when you need help and not seeking it from those around you is worse than a knowledge deficit. You need to know your limitations.

Just keep that in mind. In anatomy at my school first year, many people struggling didn't want to go to the tutors. You know what they found when they finally caved and did? They found that 50-70% of the class was already getting help from the tutors, even the people doing well. They learned what and how to study from people that just did it the year before, and that's why they were doing well. Don't hesitate to ask for help. Its damning.

So if they see you are trying to get help, they will try to work with you in order to keep you at the school?

 

[hallowmann]

So if they see you are trying to get help, they will try to work with you in order to keep you at the school?

They'll be more likely to. Nothing is guaranteed, but generally speaking faculty and deans are more willing to go to bat for you if it shows you are actually trying, actually care about the material, and actually care about your work at the school. If you fail and you never sought out help, it will basically be assumed that you didn't care.

 

[Goro]

Some students have poor understanding of the mentor:mentee relationship. Others have poor work ethics, that relate not to studying and knowledge, but to things like actually showing up on time, and doing things when asked.

Lowly non trad currently trying to get into medical school here, but how does one not develop proper people skills in a clinical sense and thusly fail?

Ive been a medical assistant working directly with people for about 6 years now, and its really not that hard to talk to people.

I understand that there is probably an academic component to 3rd year such as more tests, but it seems like the OP was having trouble with people.

 

[DrMikeP]

Lowly non trad currently trying to get into medical school here, but how does one not develop proper people skills in a clinical sense and thusly fail?

Ive been a medical assistant working directly with people for about 6 years now, and its really not that hard to talk to people.

I understand that there is probably an academic component to 3rd year such as more tests, but it seems like the OP was having trouble with people.

Med school itself is a formula to impair people skills. You put a bunch of people together under high stress and many lose a certain level of empathy (a natural coping mechanism well researched in combat) and some to a point even lose basic daily living/communication skills. Then you have an exam the day before you go in to practice clinical skills and an exam the next day and even the best of us can find ourselves just wanting to get in and out and study. At that point you easily could care more about checking a box showing you asked ABC and appeared empathic than actually being such, same thing with 3 hrs of sleep. For most with previous people skills they can adapt, for those lacking good social skills to begin with it's much more difficult. Unfortunately, the models being used in med education (even though some are trying) fail to address this problem and adding psych/sociology to the MCAT really doesn't make it significantly better.

 

[W19]

When I'm finished with my medical training will I have more knowledge than most? Probably. Will that make me a better practitioner than NP's who have been doing their job for 10-20 years? Absolutely not.

What make you say that?

 

[samac]

What make you say that?

Because I don't have the experience they do.
If you think you're going to be better than an NP who has been doing their job for 10+ years when you graduate from medical school you need to reevaluate your view of your self because you're way too cocky.

 

[W19]

Because I don't have the experience they do.
If you think you're going to be better than an NP who has been doing their job for 10+ years when you graduate from medical school you need to reevaluate your view of your self because you're way too cocky.

lol... I did not say I was going to, but I would hope to be more competent than most (if not all) after I am done with residency... However, what I see that NP schools are putting out there scares the bejesus out of me. It's a good thing that employers are starting to notice where I live.

 

[W19]

@samac

Let just say after you finish your 3rd year of med school, you got a license to practice medicine... Basically, that's what PA school is. NP school less so since their basic science knowledge is non existent and their students complete less hours than a 3rd year med student... 500-1000 hrs depending on the school...

You really believe if we magically give you a license to practice medicine after your 3rd year clerkship + 10 years of work experience, you'll be better than the 'average' board certified physician who just completed a grueling structured residency!

 

[samac]

@samac

Let just say after you finish your 3rd year of med school, you got a license to practice medicine... Basically, that's what PA school is. NP school less so since their basic science knowledge is non existent and their students complete less hours than a 3rd year med student... 500-1000 hrs depending on the school...

You really believe if we magically give you a license to practice medicine after your 3rd year clerkship + 10 years of work experience, you'll be better than the 'average' board certified physician who just completed a grueling structured residency!

You act like all NPs are incompetent.
I would argue that the vast majority are confident.
10 years experience in medicine means a lot over just graduating medical school.
I'm not talking residencies and specialities. I'm talking straight out of medical school compared to someone who has practiced.
I hands down believe they're a better provider than me at that point. Practical experience is worth quite a bit.

Are there things that I will know out of their scope when I finish my residency? Absolutely. That's why I get paid more.

Just always remember to not look down on your colleagues.

 

[W19]

You act like all NPs are incompetent.
I would argue that the vast majority are confident.
10 years experience in medicine means a lot over just graduating medical school.
I'm not talking residencies and specialities. I'm talking straight out of medical school compared to someone who has practiced.
I hands down believe they're a better provider than me at that point. Practical experience is worth quite a bit.

Are there things that I will know out of their scope when I finish my residency? Absolutely. That's why I get paid more.

Just always remember to not look down on your colleagues.

There is nothing I said here that even come close to saying all NPs are incompetent... Having experience is a good thing, but you will always be limited if you don't have a solid foundation to built that experience on...

The system has a laissez-faire attitude toward NP education/licensing etc.. while hammering at us (MD/DO) and even PA to some extent (not that is a bad thing, but I just think it's unfair).

Full disclosure: I was a nurse and still hold my RN license....

 

[Mr Roboto]

You act like all NPs are incompetent.
I would argue that the vast majority are confident.
10 years experience in medicine means a lot over just graduating medical school.
I'm not talking residencies and specialities. I'm talking straight out of medical school compared to someone who has practiced.
I hands down believe they're a better provider than me at that point. Practical experience is worth quite a bit.

Are there things that I will know out of their scope when I finish my residency? Absolutely. That's why I get paid more.

Just always remember to not look down on your colleagues.

They're quite confident, that's what is so terrifying.