Woman sues CVS for being out of stock of emergency contraception.

[MrBonita]

I work at an pharmacy on saturday mornings next to a major university. On saturday mornings I sell about a dozen plan B. I have turned away people when we run out. I hope this lawsuit doesn't gain steam. How are we to protect ourselves from low inventory. The pharmacy I work at is privately owned. If they get sued and close I could be jobless.

MN woman sues two pharmacies for refusing to fill emergency contraception prescription

Andrea Anderson said she got a prescription for the morning after pill, and she contends in a lawsuit that two different Aitkin County pharmacies refused to fill it ...

kstp.com

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[deleted480308]

I work at an pharmacy on saturday mornings next to a major university. On saturday mornings I sell about a dozen plan B. I have turned away people when we run out. I hope this lawsuit doesn't gain steam. How are we to protect ourselves from low inventory. The pharmacy I work at is privately owned. If they get sued and close I could be jobless.

MN woman sues two pharmacies for refusing to fill emergency contraception prescription

Andrea Anderson said she got a prescription for the morning after pill, and she contends in a lawsuit that two different Aitkin County pharmacies refused to fill it ...

kstp.com

Did you read that link? It’s not about being out of stock

But just to keep conversation flowing, no pharmacist should be required to dispense anything to keep their license but their private employer should be allowed to fire them for not doing so

 

[MilknCheerios]

It sounds like the pharmacist denied filling the contraceptive due to his beliefs (most likely religious) which is wrong. An on duty pharmacist needs to do their job regardless of their personal values. If another pharmacist is available later in the day, the defendant could have had that pharmacist dispense the prescription or called around to other pharmacies to dispense it thereby providing a solution to this situation.

 

[mentos]

OP did not read the article.

This happens all the time around the country. Pharmacy and religion don't mix.

 

[RxPreceptor]

And here I am going out of my way to get a misoprostol verbal order that was suppose to be sent in by planned parenthood (dropped the ball big time). Agreed, OP needs to read the article!

 

[confettiflyer]

Agreed OP didn’t even read the article. Post is completely wrong.

Religious nut jobs need to just do their freaking jobs.


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[Sine Cura]

Or this lady could have just gotten Plan B instead of Ella ("five days")

 

[rxkrafted]

Lol how did OP come up with this title?

 

[wucool33]

From reading all of OP’s posts over time, I think he’s just a troll.

 

[mentos]

Lol how did OP come up with this title?

LoL, now I see that the OP did not even read the article title, much less the article itself.

 

[Sine Cura]

Since the average weight of women in the U.S. is > 170 lbs (FastStats) I can see the ob-gyn's rationale so I'll probably start making sure we have at least 1 Ella on hand.

 

[JustFillIt]

Ummm. I would have to disagree with all of the above bashing on “the religious nut job pharmacist comments”. I, personally would dispense, but I would not take that autonomy away from someone else.

However, my understanding is - you can refuse based on religious grounds as long as you - 1.) clearly explain the situation to the patient. 2.) ensure they have ready access to the drug at a different outlet. 3.) ensure that you properly forward the the Rx to the appropriate outlet.

If you fulfill these steps then you have properly done your job and anyone who “sues this person” is only doing so due to their own selfish personal vendetta. We are living in a nasty culture when it comes to disagreeing with each other. I did not read the article so I don’t know if this lawsuit is frivolous or not..

Pharmacy and religion mix just fine if you are not stupid about it - that’s all...

 

[Sine Cura]

One issue with referral is that weather and distance can conspire to create hazardous conditions for someone to receive an Rx in a timely fashion (that lady drove in a blizzard to get the Ella and the pharmacies are far-flung in northern Minnesota), not like 20 pharmacies in a 3 mile radius).

Just goes to show how a rural lifestyle with the resources provided by civilization ("live in the middle of nowhere but I want unfettered access to my oxys") is impossible without a functioning economy, including just-in-time logistics, & government.

 

[JustFillIt]

One issue with referral is that weather and distance can conspire to create hazardous conditions for someone to receive an Rx in a timely fashion (that lady drove in a blizzard to get the Ella and the pharmacies are far-flung in northern Minnesota), not like 20 pharmacies in a 3 mile radius).

Just goes to show how a rural lifestyle with the resources provided by civilization ("live in the middle of nowhere but I want unfettered access to my oxys") is impossible without a functioning economy, including just-in-time logistics, & government.

Exactly - so if you live in a rural area and you are the only option .. You better be comfortable dispensing whatever.

 

[BenJammin]

I can't stand the "just fill it, do your job and dispense" it crowd because it just reinforces the public's belief that all we do is count by 5s and we're destined to be replaced by vending machines. Why anyone would want to give up their autonomy to local government is beyond me.

Why do these pharmacists always make a stand like this? Why can't they do what 99% of community pharmacists do with drug abusers and just say their narcs are out of stock or on backorder? "All of the other pharmacists who get doxxed across the nation just did it wrong. I will stand up in a better way and look like the good guy in the media.". Not gonna happen! Save face!

 

[NITRAS]

Exactly - so if you live in a rural area and you are the only option .. You better be comfortable dispensing whatever.

Why?

If a drunk comes to you for booze, you can turn him away because you don't feel it is right to give a drunk a drink. You aren't required to explain to him where he can get his booze.

Our thinking on this whole topic has been influence by ultra liberal thinkers. Abortion isn't illegal. The courts may have warped the constitution but that doesn't mean that you have ability to demand services from others who do not wish to provide it.

 

[sfachine]

IF they made it completely OTC and make BC OTC(like many countries do) this problem would not exist,

 

[MrBonita]

" She drove about 20 miles to a CVS pharmacy in a neighboring town, where another pharmacist declined to fill her prescription. That pharmacist, who is not named in the suit, told Anderson the CVS pharmacy did not have ella in stock and could not get it from a wholesale provider in time for her to take the pill, which must be taken within five days of unprotected sex. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/13/minnesota-woman-rejected-morning-after-pill-pharmacist-beliefs-birth-control/

 

[deleted480308]

Exactly - so if you live in a rural area and you are the only option .. You better be comfortable dispensing whatever.

Nope. My relative population density doesn’t change my rights.

 

[JustFillIt]

Nope. My relative population density doesn’t change my rights.

Sure - I was being a little cavalier when I said that. The real point that I was trying to make is that if you are in an isolated community, and you are the only option... It does, in fact, bring a different dynamic to the table. And we can use all the big words we want but it does change the scenario and it’s available options a bit.

I can speak from experience as I was a PIC for a 400+/day retail pharmacy way out in the middle of nowhere. The nearest pharmacy to mine was 1 hour away.

 

[owlegrad]

I actually disagree with the “rural” argument as well. I either have a professional obligation or I do not. How many pharmacies are around me doesn’t change my professional responsibilities.

Mind you I am in the patient’s rights>Pharmacists rights camp. But geography doesn’t change the argument for me.

 

[deleted480308]

Sure - I was being a little cavalier when I said that. The real point that I was trying to make is that if you are in an isolated community, and you are the only option... It does, in fact, bring a different dynamic to the table. And we can use all the big words we want but it does change the scenario and it’s available options a bit.

I can speak from experience as I was a PIC for a 400+/day retail pharmacy way out in the middle of nowhere. The nearest pharmacy to mine was 1 hour away.

It may change a patient’s local options, but not the autonomy rights of a pharmacist /doctor

 

[DagS132]

Pharmacists should definitely have the right to refuse service to anyone. However, employers also have the right to fire pharmacists they don't want to work with anymore. And people also have the right to sue you for some stupid reason. So the real question is, was it worth it? Did your efforts to stand up for your beliefs make a difference?

 

[Chrish]

Pharmacist is allowed to refuse a script based on religious reason given that they put that in their job application that they won’t be filling any pan Bs.

That was my understanding.

 

[JustFillIt]

Pharmacists should definitely have the right to refuse service to anyone. However, employers also have the right to fire pharmacists they don't want to work with anymore. And people also have the right to sue you for some stupid reason. So the real question is, was it worth it? Did your efforts to stand up for your beliefs make a difference?

Unfortunately I agree with this.. These days you may become the center of a national news story by “practicing your right to autonomy” as a pharmacist.

It’s sad but this is an anomaly in our culture that preys off of the sick and twisted nature of morbid curiosity. The masses love to witness the destruction of others, and our media has taken notice.

 

[confettiflyer]

I can't stand the "just fill it, do your job and dispense" it crowd because it just reinforces the public's belief that all we do is count by 5s and we're destined to be replaced by vending machines. Why anyone would want to give up their autonomy to local government is beyond me.

Why do these pharmacists always make a stand like this? Why can't they do what 99% of community pharmacists do with drug abusers and just say their narcs are out of stock or on backorder? "All of the other pharmacists who get doxxed across the nation just did it wrong. I will stand up in a better way and look like the good guy in the media.". Not gonna happen! Save face!

For the record, I’m in the “fill it if there’s no valid clinical reason to hold it aside from your sensitive snowflake religious nut job ass”

Plan B hurts your feelings? Boohoo.

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[BenJammin]

Pharmacist is allowed to refuse a script based on religious reason given that they put that in their job application that they won’t be filling any pan Bs.

That was my understanding.

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[lord999]

Agreed OP didn’t even read the article. Post is completely wrong.

Religious nut jobs need to just do their freaking jobs.


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I can understand religious objection, but I think we both agree that if you really feel strongly as a pharmacist about it, you ought to not work a role where that's a dispensing possibility. I know quite a number of nuclear pharmacists (Catholic and LDS diehards) who went into the nuclear business literally over that objection and they can choose not to practice that branch of pharmacy. If you do work ambulatory, the only objections you should have are clinical or inventory, not personal choice. For MN, this deserves a license revocation on compassionate reasons.

That said, I know of quite a number of pharmacies in MN that refuse to stock that medication so that they can refuse on stock grounds (there's one in St. Louis County that notoriously does not stock ANY birth control whatsoever, not even Mircette). That is quite legal unless you are a critical access pharmacy. In Thrifty White's case, they could get away with that by not stocking any of that.

 

[lord999]

I actually disagree with the “rural” argument as well. I either have a professional obligation or I do not. How many pharmacies are around me doesn’t change my professional responsibilities.

Mind you I am in the patient’s rights>Pharmacists rights camp. But geography doesn’t change the argument for me.

Details

www.minnesotahelp.info

Actually no, and this means FL as well. If you happen to be a pharmacy that gets critical access funding from reimbursement or direct payments, and both of those pharmacies do , they have additional obligations to maintain stock levels to serve that local patient population.

Geography DEFINITELY changes the argument for me, because they and I know that they received the rural adjustment and must act with the corresponding responsibility given their funding differential. So, if you're swampland FL or Greater Minnesota, you have special responsibility to make sure you serve the population despite not being as productive as the city's pharmacists. City pharmacists aren't taking the reimbursement hit to subsidize the country if the problems still end up in the city.

 

[wagrxm2000]

If this woman wins I will retire, go on a road trip and have my wife take a prescription to every pharmacy we pass until we find someone that says no.

This is a very sad world we live in where the tiniest of things will get us sued.

 

[mentos]

If this woman wins I will retire, go on a road trip and have my wife take a prescription to every pharmacy we pass until we find someone that says no.

This is a very sad world we live in where the tiniest of things will get us sued.

Just go to the same pharmacies she went to.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Just go to the same pharmacies she went to.

I assume they would change things after losing.

 

[spacecowgirl]

If you won't refuse to work in a pharmacy that stocks condoms, then you are just a person who needs to GTF over yourself with this moral objection bull****. Refusing to dispense based on clinical judgement is a different issue and claiming that birth control is an abortificient only shows your clinical ignorance. Claiming the Bible prohibits birth control demonstrates your religious ignorance. If your church tells you otherwise, you need to question why.

This is nothing more than small people trying to exert whatever influence they have because it makes them feel powerful. Go use those egg saving energies where they can really have an impact.

Silver lining, a new RPh position or two should open up.

 

[deleted480308]

If you won't refuse to work in a pharmacy that stocks condoms, then you are just a person who needs to GTF over yourself with this moral objection bull****. Refusing to dispense based on clinical judgement is a different issue and claiming that birth control is an abortificient only shows your clinical ignorance. Claiming the Bible prohibits birth control demonstrates your religious ignorance. If your church tells you otherwise, you need to question why.

This is nothing more than small people trying to exert whatever influence they have because it makes them feel powerful. Go use those egg saving energies where they can really have an impact.

Silver lining, a new RPh position or two should open up.

This really shows a lack of understanding of the differences between how an antiabortion person would view condoms and something they view as an abortifacent. It doesn’t even matter if their objection is religious or not, no one should be forced to dispense anything to maintain a license.

I do agree a job likely opens up

 

[JustFillIt]

If you won't refuse to work in a pharmacy that stocks condoms, then you are just a person who needs to GTF over yourself with this moral objection bull****. Refusing to dispense based on clinical judgement is a different issue and claiming that birth control is an abortificient only shows your clinical ignorance. Claiming the Bible prohibits birth control demonstrates your religious ignorance. If your church tells you otherwise, you need to question why.

This is nothing more than small people trying to exert whatever influence they have because it makes them feel powerful. Go use those egg saving energies where they can really have an impact.

Silver lining, a new RPh position or two should open up.

You know - I took a good hard look at the condom display the other day for the first time in about 20 or so years, and holy fright things have gotten weird. In my “prime” Trojan was as crazy as it got - these days there are condoms that do all sorts of weird things.

I wouldn’t refuse to dispense them - I would just question why someone needs some sort of strange “twisted spiral shaped, vibrating, lemon flavored” condoms that actually link to Alexa if you say “hey Alexa” to it...

Kids these days.....

 

[confettiflyer]

It doesn’t even matter if their objection is religious or not, no one should be forced to dispense anything to maintain a license.

I do agree a job likely opens up

I think someone who signed up to do a job should (gasp) do their job.

If some Flying Spaghetti Monster in the sky is overriding their clinical judgement, their next job should be on the street corner carrying a sign.


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[BenJammin]

I can understand religious objection, but I think we both agree that if you really feel strongly as a pharmacist about it, you ought to not work a role where that's a dispensing possibility. I know quite a number of nuclear pharmacists (Catholic and LDS diehards) who went into the nuclear business literally over that objection and they can choose not to practice that branch of pharmacy. If you do work ambulatory, the only objections you should have are clinical or inventory, not personal choice. For MN, this deserves a license revocation on compassionate reasons.

That said, I know of quite a number of pharmacies in MN that refuse to stock that medication so that they can refuse on stock grounds (there's one in St. Louis County that notoriously does not stock ANY birth control whatsoever, not even Mircette). That is quite legal unless you are a critical access pharmacy. In Thrifty White's case, they could get away with that by not stocking any of that.

But there's only a certain amount of nuclear pharmacy positions. What are the rest supposed to do, hide from the public?

 

[spacecowgirl]

This really shows a lack of understanding of the differences between how an antiabortion person would view condoms and something they view as an abortifacent. It doesn’t even matter if their objection is religious or not, no one should be forced to dispense anything to maintain a license.

I do agree a job likely opens up

Don't conflate BCP and morning after pills with abortion. Either you're anticontraception, in which case you should object to condoms, or you are willfully ignorant on the MOA of contraceptives.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I knew I was going to enjoy this thread

Very interesting how people think their opinion is the only opinion.

The only thing that is 100% fact is the pharmacist should always find a pharmacy that will sell it.

 

[deleted480308]

Don't conflate BCP and morning after pills with abortion. Either you're anticontraception, in which case you should object to condoms, or you are willfully ignorant on the MOA of contraceptives.

I’m not calling them the same, exactly the opposite. I’m further saying that pharmacist doesn’t owe anyone but their employer anything. It doesn’t matter if you like their logic

I knew I was going to enjoy this thread

Very interesting how people think their opinion is the only opinion.

The only thing that is 100% fact is the pharmacist should always find a pharmacy that will sell it.

No. Google it or talk to your insurance company. No professional should be obligated by licensure to guarantee finding a product/service for you against their will

 

[BenJammin]

The only thing that is 100% fact is the pharmacist should always find a pharmacy that will sell it.

But why? The consumer isn't smart enough to find one themselves?

 

[owlegrad]

...
Very interesting how people think their opinion is the only opinion.

The only thing that is 100% fact is the pharmacist should always find a pharmacy that will sell it.

The irony is great. I love it.

 

[Chrish]

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I am pretty sure that’s the case as I recall studying for law exam..

Of course that’s if the employer approves which would never be the case. But if you are religious Indy owner then you can refuse to sell it.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Wow just wow.

I forgot everyone here joined for the money.

 

[JustFillIt]

Wow just wow.

I forgot everyone here joined for the money.

I don’t get it. Please enlighten us with your higher wisdom.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I knew I was going to enjoy this thread

Very interesting how people think their opinion is the only opinion.

Entitled to opinion, yes. Not your (royal your) own facts. Remember when we used to make that distinction?

 

[DagS132]

I don’t get it. Please enlighten us with your higher wisdom.

wagrxm obviously works for free. Money apparently isn't important and doesn't run the world

 

[wagrxm2000]

It's so funny how everyone here gets offended so easily nowadays

There has never been a day I didn't do a quick check to find a drug. Everyone else is too busy hating a job they never should have joined had it not been for the $$$.

 

[RxPreceptor]

It's so funny how everyone here gets offended so easily nowadays

There has never been a day I didn't do a quick check to find a drug. Everyone else is too busy hating a job they never should have joined had it not been for the $$$.

Yes, agreed far too many hungry for money. A few of us actually thoroughly enjoy going out of our ways to ensure people get a needed drug...enjoy that whole patient-drug-disease state dynamic/talking about stuff other than money

Do not respond to this wagrxm2000

 

[confettiflyer]

No professional should be obligated by licensure to guarantee finding a product/service for you against their will

I only agree with that statement when said nut job is sitting on their couch at home and off the clock.

Are we gonna tolerate a JW EM provider refusing to transfuse blood to a trauma pt?


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