Women in Neurosurgery

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nycballet

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I know women in neurosurgery are hard to come by, so I have started this forum for us to share our thoughts and experiences. I must admit I am just starting my medical school career this fall at UCLA. However, I have had a passion for neurosurgery for many years now, especially after my brother was diagnosed with a brain tumor and the miraculous work of a neurosurgeon saved his life. I have read on other posts that female neurosurgeons must choose to have either a career or a family, that having the two is impossible. The two female medical students I know who are pursuing neurosurgery have both resigned themselves to not having children. I find this to be kind of depressing. Is it really impossible to balance both a career in neurosurgery and a family? I value family and enjoyment of life as much as I do my career, and I cannot imagine discarding one for the other. I would love to hear some female neurosurgeons' perspectives. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

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I've kind of decided that I'm going to work towards neursurg as much as I can. I have pretty much decided that if I get into neursurg I'll just consider myself married to my career. The two female neurosurgeons I know never got married or had kids.

This is all unless I marry Mr. Mom type.
 
The male neurosurgeons I know have been divorced many, many times. Neurosurgery is not conducive to a family life.
 
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The 3 NS female residents I know are single with no kids.
 
the 1 woman neurosurgeon I know is single, no kids, and is a raging beyotch! like ob/gyn caliber beyotch. Good luck pursuing NS. I think you have to trun in your ovaries though.
 
OK, well all these posts are depressing. I think that ultimately it depends on you and your personality. I know that surgery in general, esp neurosurgery is extremely demanding on family time, male or female. I know a female resident who is single, no kids. But there are 2 other female NS I know (attendings) that have a great family life. Female NS are hard to come by (only like 200 in the country), so its easy to make a generalization by seeing one person. Many female surgeons have the reputation of having a chip on their shoulder.....its still a male dominated field, and changing very slowly. I once had a female resident who told me that you can get your stuff done and have everyone see you as a bitch, or be nice to everyone and get nothing done. Unfortunately women get the label of bitch if they are short with someone, and guys don't.

You have to be dedicated to your career, no doubt. And it doesnt help that the residency lasts during the child-bearing years of your life. You have to do what you love, and what you feel like your calling is. If its neurosurgery, are you going to be happy doing something else? Those are the questions I ask myself, and I can easily answer, so I know I am doing the right thing.
 
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betz said:
You have to be dedicated to your career, no doubt. And it doesnt help that the residency lasts during the child-bearing years of your life. You have to do what you love, and what you feel like your calling is. If its neurosurgery, are you going to be happy doing something else? Those are the questions I ask myself, and I can easily answer, so I know I am doing the right thing.

Check out this woman. Looks like she has had a very interesting career. She might be a good person to contact for good info. :thumbup:

Kick Ass Female Pediatric Neurosurg
 
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I just finished reading a great book by Katrina Firlik, who was the first women to graduate from the NS residency program as Upitt, and is now a professor at yale and in private practice in CT. The book is called "Another Day in the Frontal Lobe."

She talks about some of the unique challenges she faced being a female in a heavily male dominated specialty. I'm a male interested in NS (one day, a long time from now...getting into medical school is a great first step though, I think..) and I read it just because it sounded great. You may want to pick it up for an interesting read if nothing else:)
 
NCPreMed85 said:
I just finished reading a great book by Katrina Firlik, who was the first women to graduate from the NS residency program as Upitt, and is now a professor at yale and in private practice in CT. The book is called "Another Day in the Frontal Lobe."

I just purchased this book, and I am looking forward to reading it. Along with reading for my surgery shelf exam, I am also currently reading "When the air hits your brain". It is also a great read. :thumbup:
 
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nycballet,
There's nothing wrong with planning for a career in neurosurgery now, but be sure to consider a few backup choices- and realize you will likely change your mind a few times during med school. It's one thing to be "interested" in a field. Neurosurgery is a VERY interesting field! You obviously have a personal connection with it too, and that's great. It's another thing to live the life of a surgeon (any surgeon). You really won't get a feel for that life until your third year of med school, when you do a surgery rotation. Still, it won't even come close to how real surgery residents live. At my hospital, the neurosurgery residents were working 120-130hrs per week just a few years ago. I won't comment on whether or not that still goes on. All I can say is that they're always in the hospital. One of the PGY4s told me he routinely comes in at 4am, and doesn't leave until 10pm.

Can you live on 4-5 hours of sleep for 6-7 years?

People who excel in fields like neurosurgery are very unusual people. They have an unbelievable vitality and lack of need for sleep that makes it possible to be so productive and never get burned out. The world needs more neurosurgeons, so if are one of these special people, do it! If not, you'll be freakin' miserable.

I had my heart set on surgery when I started med school. I studied neuroscience in college, and loved it. I did neuro research too... By my fourth year of med school, I realized I cared much more about my life than my work, and decided on anesthesiology. Two years into residency, I have no regrets, I love what I do everyday, and I'm super excited about the life that awaits me in private practice. I'm planning to do locum tenens and travel around for a while with my significant other, see the country, and really enjoy life before starting a family.

I recall one of the surgery residents earlier this year ask me, as I was being relieved from the OR at 4pm by a member of the call team, "what is it you guys do when you go home at 4pm?" I just laughed!

nycballet said:
I know women in neurosurgery are hard to come by, so I have started this forum for us to share our thoughts and experiences. I must admit I am just starting my medical school career this fall at UCLA. However, I have had a passion for neurosurgery for many years now, especially after my brother was diagnosed with a brain tumor and the miraculous work of a neurosurgeon saved his life. I have read on other posts that female neurosurgeons must choose to have either a career or a family, that having the two is impossible. The two female medical students I know who are pursuing neurosurgery have both resigned themselves to not having children. I find this to be kind of depressing. Is it really impossible to balance both a career in neurosurgery and a family? I value family and enjoyment of life as much as I do my career, and I cannot imagine discarding one for the other. I would love to hear some female neurosurgeons' perspectives. Any feedback with be grealy appreciated.
 
nycballet said:
I know women in neurosurgery are hard to come by, so I have started this forum for us to share our thoughts and experiences. I must admit I am just starting my medical school career this fall at UCLA. However, I have had a passion for neurosurgery for many years now, especially after my brother was diagnosed with a brain tumor and the miraculous work of a neurosurgeon saved his life. I have read on other posts that female neurosurgeons must choose to have either a career or a family, that having the two is impossible. The two female medical students I know who are pursuing neurosurgery have both resigned themselves to not having children. I find this to be kind of depressing. Is it really impossible to balance both a career in neurosurgery and a family? I value family and enjoyment of life as much as I do my career, and I cannot imagine discarding one for the other. I would love to hear some female neurosurgeons' perspectives. Any feedback with be grealy appreciated.

Hi there,
I am not in neurosurgery but my cousin is a pediatric neurosurgeon and a JD too. You can balance family and neurosurgery if you have a good support system. She had great nannies when her children were younger and made time to spend quality time with them. He philosophy is that you make time for the things that are important to you and you have back-up plans. She had her children during her research year and now they are out of the house.

I have another close friend who is a general neurosurgeon who is married to a neurosurgeon. Her kids are 11, 8 and 6. Again, she has a housekeeper and both she and her husband share the soccer and ballet duties. They do not practice together but practice in the same town. She had her first child right after she finished residency.

I actually know four female neurosurgeons fairly well. The two that I mention above and then two that I have worked with on pediatric surgery and trauma surgery. Again, all have children and all practice neurosurgery full time. It is an elegant specialty for a woman but I have to admit that the neurosurgery residency at UVa has a dearth of women.

My cousin trained at GWU; my freind at Case Western; my other two colleagues at GT and Case Western. All of those programs are very open to females.

Check out Alexa Canaday who is a very famous female African-American neurosurgeon. She is the bomb! I think that she has just retired from practice but she is brilliant.

njbmd :)
 
njbmd - Thanks for that post. It's very reasuring!
 
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powermd,
Thanks very much for your helpful post. As you suggested, I am definitely going to keep my mind open during medical school. A large part of choosing a specialty, especially one that really works and makes sense, is knowing yourself and your values. I don't know if it's just me, but I see myself as a collection of contradictions wrapped up in one body. I could see myself going in so many directions and sometimes it can be overwhelming. On a different note, before my personal experience with neurosurgeons on my brother's case, I had my sights set on anesthesiology. It is a great field from what I've heard and observed. I, like you, really believe in enjoying life--it is a blessing to be alive and healthy. I would love to have the freedom to travel a month each year and have the financial means to provide for my family with simple luxuries. I'm sure I'll discover more aspects of myself as I journey through medical school but I couldn't imagine compromising having a happy, stable family life for a rigorous career. I think it is awesome that you will have the time to travel a bit with your s.o. before you settle down. That is exactly what I would want to do.

Anyway, thanks for the great posts everyone! I'm going to take it one step at a time and hopefully, end up where I belong.
 
I went to a neurosurgery conference - There was 1 woman neurosurgeon in the room, and me (F med student). The rest of the room was full of men. I was with a male med student. Who they chatted up. Me, not so much. It really sucked. Also I had a really bad experience with this other med student undercutting me in the department that has left me jaded. But I'm going back - Next week I have a meeting with the dept. head about writing a topic paper, and I'm set up with my neuroscience prof to write another 20pg topic paper this year (hopefully). Frustrating, but I'm hoping persistence pays off.
 
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I think the demands of neurosurgery has also forced many men into deciding between neurosurgery and family as well. I know of many divorced neurosurgeons or just essentially absent fathers.

They often just have no life due to the workload and call which is not helped by the small number of neurosurgeons trained each year.
 
undecided3yr said:
I think the demands of neurosurgery has also forced many men into deciding between neurosurgery and family as well. I know of many divorced neurosurgeons or just essentially absent fathers.

They often just have no life due to the workload and call which is not helped by the small number of neurosurgeons trained each year.


Yeah it definitely can put a toll on family life all around for both males and females. But of course males don't have to carry around the child for 9 months either. (I'm a female) I've opted to have my kiddies now -I have one already and another will be on the way during a research year. My husband is very much Mr. Mom already! I pretty much just popped out my son and give him to his dad. And they are two peas in a pod. I'm happy though and I enjoy the time I do get with my family. And we make it count but it takes alot of organization on both of our parts. I am always around for alot of 'firsts' if we plan them ahead of time (ie his first hair cut). My husband has a career also but it's not as demanding. And he knows that my little 60-70 hours at school studying (i prefer to study at school) will pale in comparison to the hours of an intern, but he seems to be looking forward to that time (perhaps because i am a nag and he prefers to run the house and when I am there i interfere with that LMAO) I'm definitely about business because I know to accomplish what I want (which is nsurg) I gotta be about business and organization. I don't think it's impossible but it's damn hard--there are no easy weeks. But, it's the choice I'm making and my husband is going in with his eyes open.
 
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Went back to neurosurgery conference this week and had a GREAT time. :cool:
 
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My wife is head of a neurosurgical department (5 Neurosurgeons, 8 residents), i am a neurosurgeon too, we have a daughter, who is 6 years old. But: we live and work in Germany, not the USA.


nycballet said:
I know women in neurosurgery are hard to come by, so I have started this forum for us to share our thoughts and experiences. I must admit I am just starting my medical school career this fall at UCLA. However, I have had a passion for neurosurgery for many years now, especially after my brother was diagnosed with a brain tumor and the miraculous work of a neurosurgeon saved his life. I have read on other posts that female neurosurgeons must choose to have either a career or a family, that having the two is impossible. The two female medical students I know who are pursuing neurosurgery have both resigned themselves to not having children. I find this to be kind of depressing. Is it really impossible to balance both a career in neurosurgery and a family? I value family and enjoyment of life as much as I do my career, and I cannot imagine discarding one for the other. I would love to hear some female neurosurgeons' perspectives. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 
My first mentor (med School - rotate Cook County 86) and reason I am a surgeon was the first ChairWOMAN for Surgery: Olga Jonasson, MD - Ohio State
The first ChairWOMAN of Neurosurgery (as of Nov 04):
Professor Karin M. Muraszko, M.D.
Chair, Dept Neurosurgery, U Michigan

I believe she is married and has 2 children
One of the nicest, most brilliant, decent people I've met.

You want to be a Neurosurgeon and have a life - then do it.
Good luck


Megalin said:
Went back to neurosurgery conference this week and had a GREAT time. :cool:
 
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Thank you for that post because I was wondering if a female neurosurgeon can have a personal life and a successful career as a pediatric neurosurgeon, or as a general neurosurgeon. I have heard of Alexa Canady. She was honored with an award in Florida and she is the first African-American female pediatric neurosurgeon. I have also heard of Dr. Ben Carson. Have you heard of Dr. Ben Carson?
 
Yeah it definitely can put a toll on family life all around for both males and females. But of course males don't have to carry around the child for 9 months either. (I'm a female) I've opted to have my kiddies now -I have one already and another will be on the way during a research year. My husband is very much Mr. Mom already! I pretty much just popped out my son and give him to his dad. And they are two peas in a pod. I'm happy though and I enjoy the time I do get with my family. And we make it count but it takes alot of organization on both of our parts. I am always around for alot of 'firsts' if we plan them ahead of time (ie his first hair cut). My husband has a career also but it's not as demanding. And he knows that my little 60-70 hours at school studying (i prefer to study at school) will pale in comparison to the hours of an intern, but he seems to be looking forward to that time (perhaps because i am a nag and he prefers to run the house and when I am there i interfere with that LMAO) I'm definitely about business because I know to accomplish what I want (which is nsurg) I gotta be about business and organization. I don't think it's impossible but it's damn hard--there are no easy weeks. But, it's the choice I'm making and my husband is going in with his eyes open.
Does Drexel University College of Medicine have a good neurosurgery program?
 
Hi there,
I am not in neurosurgery but my cousin is a pediatric neurosurgeon and a JD too. You can balance family and neurosurgery if you have a good support system. She had great nannies when her children were younger and made time to spend quality time with them. He philosophy is that you make time for the things that are important to you and you have back-up plans. She had her children during her research year and now they are out of the house.

I have another close friend who is a general neurosurgeon who is married to a neurosurgeon. Her kids are 11, 8 and 6. Again, she has a housekeeper and both she and her husband share the soccer and ballet duties. They do not practice together but practice in the same town. She had her first child right after she finished residency.

I actually know four female neurosurgeons fairly well. The two that I mention above and then two that I have worked with on pediatric surgery and trauma surgery. Again, all have children and all practice neurosurgery full time. It is an elegant specialty for a woman but I have to admit that the neurosurgery residency at UVa has a dearth of women.

My cousin trained at GWU; my freind at Case Western; my other two colleagues at GT and Case Western. All of those programs are very open to females.

Check out Alexa Canaday who is a very famous female African-American neurosurgeon. She is the bomb! I think that she has just retired from practice but she is brilliant.

njbmd :)
Thank you for that post because I was wondering if a female neurosurgeon can have a personal life and a successful career as a pediatric neurosurgeon, or as a general neurosurgeon. I have heard of Alexa Canady. She was honored with an award in Florida and she is the first African-American female pediatric neurosurgeon. I have also heard of Dr. Ben Carson. Have you heard of Dr. Ben Carson?
 
I just purchased this book, and I am looking forward to reading it. Along with reading for my surgery shelf exam, I am also currently reading "When the air hits your brain". It is also a great read. :thumbup:

I was disappointed by 'Another Day In The Frontal Lobe' I found her thoughts sporadic and random, jumping from topic to topic with little direction, fitting in stories in the middle of chapters that relevance was only revealed in the very last sentence (if at all). The thing that stuck out in my mind was she mentioned quite early on about a Neurosurgeon's book she read, and he was obviously someone she admired greatly and I just thought her book was wanting to follow in his footsteps.

I have to mention it might have been because the book I read before that was Frist's 'Transplant' which is a FANTASTIC book!! Definitely my favorite - I did enjoy 'When The Air Hits Your Brain' and 'First Do No Harm'. On Thursday I read Ben Carson's 'Gifted Hands' which is very well written and quite pleasant. Very motivational - I just think he is someone with his head screwed on straight, and his insight and advice is incredibly helpful.

Did anyone read 'Hot Lights, Cold Steel' by Collins? Was I the only one who got an uneasy feeling when he described seeing the silhouette of the girl having her pubic area prepped for surgery and then confessing wanting to be her 'everything'?
 
Did anyone read 'Hot Lights, Cold Steel' by Collins? Was I the only one who got an uneasy feeling when he described seeing the silhouette of the girl having her pubic area prepped for surgery and then confessing wanting to be her 'everything'?

He admitted he had a reaction to her that inspired him (to want be "everything" to her) when they first met, not any time around the operation.

It was a confession, to be sure, but more like a harmless compulsion to take care of her because of her beauty & innocence. It wasn't creepy in the least.
 
I believe you are right in the sequence of events - I read this book a few months ago, and have read a considerable amount since. Maybe I felt this way reading that section because I am one of those who wants to be fixed by doctors and then forgotten - rather than directly caring for me as a person, caring for humanity! I certainly enjoyed readng his book, and do think highly of him - just puzzled by that part.
 
i think that part was a bit sensational, but i really enjoyed that book overall. When the Air Hits your Brain and House of God are my favorites tho.
 
I just purchased this book, and I am looking forward to reading it. Along with reading for my surgery shelf exam, I am also currently reading "When the air hits your brain". It is also a great read. :thumbup:

Katrina Firlik is a mom too. She just returned from maternity
leave this past September!!!
 
I was disappointed by 'Another Day In The Frontal Lobe' I found her thoughts sporadic and random, jumping from topic to topic with little direction, fitting in stories in the middle of chapters that relevance was only revealed in the very last sentence (if at all). The thing that stuck out in my mind was she mentioned quite early on about a Neurosurgeon's book she read, and he was obviously someone she admired greatly and I just thought her book was wanting to follow in his footsteps.

I have to mention it might have been because the book I read before that was Frist's 'Transplant' which is a FANTASTIC book!! Definitely my favorite - I did enjoy 'When The Air Hits Your Brain' and 'First Do No Harm'. On Thursday I read Ben Carson's 'Gifted Hands' which is very well written and quite pleasant. Very motivational - I just think he is someone with his head screwed on straight, and his insight and advice is incredibly helpful.

Did anyone read 'Hot Lights, Cold Steel' by Collins? Was I the only one who got an uneasy feeling when he described seeing the silhouette of the girl having her pubic area prepped for surgery and then confessing wanting to be her 'everything'?

only recently have i discovered that reading while eating or before bed is so much better for the mind than watching a tv show...yes, i'm a dumba$$

anyway - i loved when the air hits your brain. first "for fun" book i've read since the harry potters. it gives good insight into the field, i think, tho not sure since i haven't done residency. but i found it cool, a little depressing, and encaptivating.

hot lights and cold steel was pretty good too. not really into ortho, but i found that he gave more detail into his actual experience, whereas air hits brain was more isolated cases. pretty good insights as well, liked it a lot for different reasons. the "be her everything part" i thought about only because i read this guy's comment first. i think he just wanted to slip in that she was incredibly hot, and he wanted to try to preserve her beauty as much as possible, that's really it. his allusion later in the book to it shows he probably succeeded.

i just finished another day in the frontal lobe. i didn't like it. it's basically a collection of thoughts she's been dying to share with the world. no consistency, no story, no real insight into her experience. it's more like a series of lectures on her take on life, some of which are pretty good, but i kind of wanted to know more about the experience-part of nsg.

this weekend is post-exam, i hope to get ben carson's gifted hands done. i was in science olympiad (high school competition) at the national competition several years back at ohio state and he was their chief speaker at the event. he is so damn inspirational, his speech was incredible. i got to meet him in the end, seems like a down to earth kind of guy, very sincere, etc. i sure hope that's him in real life as well. i'm looking forward to his book (i wish the cover was a bit more encaptivating like the others, but can't judge a book by its cover). he's not nearly as big as the cover indicates, and he seemed almost quiet and meek when i met him. neurosurgeon would have been the last thing i'd guess if i saw him randomly. i had no idea of his fame until recently; i wish i wasn't so unworldly as a high schooler. maybe he was just being extra nice cuz we were high school babies then too.

i also hope to finish 10 habits of highly effective people.

any other book reccs for a nsg wannabe? i know there's this one book out there (tales of neurosurgery maybe?) about a guy's experience at barrow. i've been lookin for it but i think its out of print, as two barnes and nobles and a borders didnt carry it.
 
You should be able to get The Healing Blade from Amazon with no problem. While I enjoyed it, I found it almost too over the top celebratory of NS in general and Spetzler in particular. I read Judith's Pavillion (Marc Flitter) right afterwards, which was in stark contrast as it is ultimately about death, and the paradoxical nature of the neurosurgeon's role in death.

I like how this thread went from "women in NS" to "NS book club," but thats ok. Any more for fun books for NS wannabees?
 
I think a better question would be: who is letting women leave the kitchen long enough to operate? Who are these husbands of theirs?! I mean, sounds like some hippy bull**** to me.
 
I think a better question would be: who is letting women leave the kitchen long enough to operate? Who are these husbands of theirs?! I mean, sounds like some hippy bull**** to me.
:laugh:
i think the >90% divorce rate is an indication that there is no husband to keep them in the kitchen

then again, women of power dissecting brains turns me on just as much as women in the kitchen, so go with the floooooooow
 
I just purchased this book, and I am looking forward to reading it. Along with reading for my surgery shelf exam, I am also currently reading "When the air hits your brain". It is also a great read. :thumbup:

I read "When the Air Hits Your Brain". I really liked it.

It has more of the vulgar terms thatn most of the books that I;ve read about NS.
Dr. Vertosick's chief (I think his name is Harry or something) says some funny things.
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chicago-women-neurosurgeons-aug13,0,7910818.story

Profession ponders why there are so few female neurosurgeons?

By Bruce Japsen | Tribune staff reporter 3:14 PM CDT, August 13, 2008 Even though more than half of all students attending U.S. medical schools these days are female, the field of neurosurgery faces challenges attracting and retaining women to the profession, according to a new report.

The lack of women specialists in surgery of the brain and nervous system, published in the September issue of Journal of Neurosurgery, highlights a potential problem that could lead to a shortage of neurosurgeons as a whole given the increasing role of women in medicine, the authors say.

"There is a real public interest in addressing this," said Gail Rosseau, chief of surgery at the Neurologic and Orthopedic Institute of Chicago and an assistant professor of neurosurgery at Rush University Medical Center. "At the end of the day, we are all patients and we want to be sure there are adequate numbers of qualified neurosurgeons to take care of us and our loved ones' strokes, brain tumors, back and neck pains . . . ''

Female board-certified neurosurgeons account for less than 6 percent of a neurosurgical work force that numbers more than 3,000. Meanwhile, just about 300 or two percent of the 16,000 graduating medical students are applying for 180 available residency positions each year over the last decade.

"The paper touches on the fact that the number of neurosurgeons appears to be decreasing relative to a growing population and that there is an urgent need to attract more qualified candidates to address this potential shortage," said Dr. James Bean, president of the American Association of Neurological Surgeons, which is based in the Chicago suburb of Rolling Meadows. "This is an issue that affects the specialty as a whole – and inevitably our patients – and we intend to work together to resolve it."

The paper was written by a dozen female neurosurgeons who are members of the group Women in Neurosurgery, which is advocating for ways to attract more women to the field. They say more medical schools and teaching hospitals need more women as department heads and other leadership positions as a way to make women role models.

"There are also some instances where there are no role models," Rosseau said.

Today, only six percent of full-time neurosurgical faculty are female and fewer than five percent of neurosurgeons in private practice are female.

The field can be considered among medicine's most rigorous and take 11 to 14 years before entering private practice, the American Association of Neurological Surgeons says. Following the standard four-year U.S. medical school curriculum, it's common for an aspiring neurosurgeon to complete a one year internship and a six-year neurosurgical residency. Some also pursue one or two-year fellowships.

I disagree with some of the statements in the article. There's no shortage of neurosurgery applicants, every neurosurg spot will fill, there's really no danger of a (qualified) neurosurgeon shortage just because women aren't throwing their hats in the ring. In reality I think we've identified exactly why women aren't as interested in neurosurg (family, etc.). We can argue about whether or not there are unfair gender-specific barriers, and whether or not that compromises the applicant pool, but I don't think we should jump to that when it's entirely possible that women just aren't as drawn to it. Men aren't as drawn to peds and OB as women, but you don't see us whining about how there's more women in peds and OB....if women aren't interested in making the personal sacrifices, qualified men are. Just like if men aren't willing to make the sacrifices associated with peds or OB, qualified women are.
 
So how do those of you interested in neurosurgery plan on getting chicks, if you fail to marry b4 entering residency, you have no leisure time, and all the women in your ranks are aggressive wh0res who do their best to impersonate the worst sides of the xy species? Do you have to mingle with other hospital staff then?

For the female neurosurgeons, this must be even worse. Fighting with her male colleagues, so no opportunity for romantic involvment there. Then the male needs to have more money and higher status, and that is kinda hard to fulfill. They probably target a plastic surgeon or professor in dermatology, then. If he is tall enough, wears nice shoes and looks handsome enough to breed with.
 
katrina firlik resigned from her position at greenwich neurosurgery and writes full time now. she wanted to be at the more "creative" side of things (i'm local)
 
So how do those of you interested in neurosurgery plan on getting chicks
Clubs aren't too bad, especially when you're relatively new to the city. I mean, we were 5 NS residents, including our chief, in the same club last night (we, the juniors, randomly met our seniors there. It was very interesting and entertaining, to say the least). We met a lot of young ''classy'' professionals there too, so I don't think it's fair to say only trashy people frequent clubs.

Anyway, I don't think NS makes everything that different, really. Young single males do pretty much the same things to meet women, regardless of their educational background.
 
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Clubs aren't too bad, especially when you're relatively new to the city. I mean, we were 5 NS residents, including our chief, in the same club last night (we, the juniors, randomly met our seniors there. It was very interesting and entertaining, to say the least). We met a lot of young ''classy'' professionals there too, so I don't think it's fair to say only trashy people frequent clubs.

Anyway, I don't think NS makes everything that different, really. Young single males do pretty much the same things to meet women, regardless of their educational background.

question for you guys...with 180 NS spots and 300 applicants, are there enough "qualified applicants" to increase the number of spots? i know that programs are slowly growing and every so often you hear about some programs that are awarded an additional spot every other year, etc. i ask because an academic neurosurgeon i spoke with was ambivalent about the increase in program size: with more residents, the burden can be further split up but he wants to make sure that they are still getting the applicants that will successfully get through the training. thanks!
 
any other book reccs for a nsg wannabe?

"Working in a very small place" It's about Peter Janetta (written by a reporter). In addition to covering some of the day-to-day stuff of a NS, it has an interesting history of Janetta's pioneering vascular decompression for trigeminal neuralgia (although certainly from Janetta's viewpoint).

Although not NS, I liked most of Harold Klawans' (neurologist) books. My favorite is"Toscanini's Fumble and Other Tales of Clinical Neurology", a collection of neurology cases. He also has one on being an expert witness (can't remember the name) that provides excellent insight into malpractice.
 
Another Columbia voice chiming in... we're a bit of a powerhouse when it comes to neurosurgery (6-8 students a year match, and the program is very strong). In the last decade we've had 10 female students go in, with a very diverse mix of partnership statuses. There are currently two female residents in the program here, and both are quite happily married.

As far as children go-- of course it's possible. Anything is possible. Most academic programs have a built-in requirement of two years in the lab (the PGY-2 year and the PGY-5 at ours), which are a very convenient time to have a baby.

The bottom line is this-- neurosurgery is an *incredibly* hard-working service, with 2 residents per year to cover that enormous load. As is the case with most of the surgical sub-specialty services, the absence of just one resident makes that load unbearable on anyone else. Having a child during the clinical years of training is inadvisable as you must literally be back to work as soon as possible, and you will honestly never see it.

I'm planning on pursuing surgical training myself, albeit not in neurosurgery, and am comfortable with the idea of a relatively scanty homelife during training, and a full-time nanny. Our reproductive years fall where they do, and there's nothing else to do if you hope to have biological children and pursue surgical training.

If you love the field-- and everyone in NS has a scary, cult-like devotion to it-- you can make it work. Besides, nationally neurosurgery residency is currently 12% female and rising-- you'll hardly be the odd (wo)man out.
 
I just bought this! Not a bad read. I need to get "when air hits your brain" next.
Myself, I'm not opposed to a family, but I'm willing to compromise what I am nowhere near having for neurosurgery. I have solitary tendencies in my personal life to begin with, and if it is something that I truly love while I have nothing yet to give up, I can easily see myself happily becoming a workaholic. But again, I'm not opposed having a family, and should an opportunity arise that might honestly work, I wouldn't run from it.
 
question for you guys...with 180 NS spots and 300 applicants, are there enough "qualified applicants" to increase the number of spots? i know that programs are slowly growing and every so often you hear about some programs that are awarded an additional spot every other year, etc. i ask because an academic neurosurgeon i spoke with was ambivalent about the increase in program size: with more residents, the burden can be further split up but he wants to make sure that they are still getting the applicants that will successfully get through the training. thanks!

I don't know, man. While this year saw the highest average Step I score since 1998 for people who matched, the average Step I score of unmatched applicants was the lowest since 1998. I don't think Step I score is necessarily the best measure of "qualified applicants", but take that for what it's worth.
 
I think the trend is that more females are acutally getting interested in NS and will be applying this year as well as in the following few years. This would probably bump up the number of applicants up. It just seems to be a more accessible field, now that it has higher match rate than some of the other surgical specialities.
I expect NS match to get much competetive fairly soon.
 
I think the trend is that more females are acutally getting interested in NS and will be applying this year as well as in the following few years. This would probably bump up the number of applicants up. It just seems to be a more accessible field, now that it has higher match rate than some of the other surgical specialities.
I expect NS match to get much competetive fairly soon.

Is this a joke? It's already one of the most competitive fields...not sure the phrase "seems to be a more accessible field" really applies, but that's my opinion.

And why do you believe more females are getting interested in neurosurg? I'm not saying they're not, I'm just curious what you're basing that on.
 
Like as cheerleaders? If so that would be awesome!
 
I think neurosurgery is awesome! I can't imagine going into psych or derm (which don't interest me at all) just because they're more "family-friendly". I truly feel that if you are highly motivated (especially internally), nothing is impossible! It will be hard to have kids and be a NS, but I think it's doable if it's your dream and you are flexible!

I have the chance to go back to the US or stay in Germany for my residency and my husband and I decided to stay here in Germany because the laws here are much more family friendly (up to 3 years maternity leave per child, legal right to work part-time when you have children- it works because the programs aren't rigid "1st year, 2nd year" etc.) Yeah, it will take longer (I certainly won't take 3 years off but I plan on working 75% when my kids are young) but it is worth it to me! so much that I don't even care that I will be making less in comparison to the states because the hours are better and I will be a mom, too.

I know it is harder in the states, but I think it's doable!
 
Is this a joke? It's already one of the most competitive fields...not sure the phrase "seems to be a more accessible field" really applies, but that's my opinion.

And why do you believe more females are getting interested in neurosurg? I'm not saying they're not, I'm just curious what you're basing that on.

If you are truly interested in NS, you'll find the match result of 2008 and how much % of US grad is matching with Step 1 score of much lower than not only plastic and derm but also lower than rad onc.

as far as female, AANS sponsers research scholorship for 15 med students every year in filed of neuroscience every year. Up till last year, all were awarded to male students but this year about half were awarded to female students, which is probably more due to increase in female intrest to this field.

Plus, as opposed to about 5% of practicing female NS, 10% (although still very small) of NS residents are females.

So the trend of more female getting into the field is present. Considering the number of male applicants probably would stay the same, so I predicted that the number of applicants will increase very soon.
 
to the original poster:
I think you shouldn't assume that there will be no way to have any kids if you become a neurosurgeon. However, you should assume things will be tough, and that your spouse will have to be very understanding. The work hours here in the US are different than Australia and Europe, so I don't think we can compare ourselves or our work schedules to folks over there. You shouldn't give up on any field at this point in your med school career - just look around, get as much experience as you can, and try to find what is best for you and what you are good at. You can always have neurology as a backup, or perhaps another surgical field that wouldn't be quite as hard core (i.e. optho or urology, though those are competitive to get in to).

To Lebowski: I don't think you should assume that every field with a low % of women has a low % just because the women "aren't interested". That's kind of like assuming there is a super low number of African American doctors because black people "just aren't interested" in becoming doctors. These types of situations are complex. I'm not saying some women (and men) aren't deterred from such fields as surgical fields and cardiology, etc. by the long work hours. However, I think other factors, such as a lack of role models (we had zero female neurosurgeons at my medical school, and one female neurosurgery resident in the entire program), and in some cases discrimination (i.e. when I was a student I had some ortho residents and attendings who said they didn't think women should do orthopedics and don't know "why a woman would ever want to do this anyway"). I think being female in a predominantly male field (esp. one with <15% women or so) can make it hard to network, etc. in some cases, because some men (particularly the older attendings) don't seem to "get it" that a woman could be just as interested in the field, just as ambitious and hard working. Also, you said that nobody is concerned that not many men are entering OB. I disagree. I personally was concerned when I was in med school that so few people (in general) were going in to OB, and think it would be good if more men would pursue OB. I think we need as many good OB's as we can get, including men. I have heard some OB programs are now trying to recruit more men,FYI.

I do think the original poster needs to realize she'll probably need to be REALLY hard core to stay in neurosurgery (this = true for men also) and that female surgeons tend to have to be a little more assertive than males to get things done. This holds true a bit in some other specialties but I don't think it's to the same degree. It sucks that some people label an assertive female doc "bitch" but that's just the way it is.
 
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