Women who started med school after 30 - worth it?

[Medmaid]

The title pretty much sums it up.

I'm single with no kids looking to embark on what I know is hell on earth for at least eight years. Have not applied yet and probably won't 'til next year, making my start age (assuming I get in) 35. That scares the crap out of me.

If I meet someone and decide to start a family (if all goes well, before starting school as my chances for dating once I'm in school are probably somewhere below zero), am I basically setting myself up for disaster?

As of now, my plan is to go into pediatrics, which I know can change a million times once you're exposed to different fields, but I'm not so sadistic to aim for some of the more cut-throat fields (not that peds wouldn't be enough of a challenge...)

Just from reading the boards of current med students and residents (esp. the "was it worth it" boards), I hear what kind of masochistic hell this period is for people in their 20s, and I can only imagine that being older and trying to "do it all" will be even more challenging. Impossible? I don't like to think so, but I'll gladly take a few buckets of ice cold reality dumped over my head by those of you who have been there, or know someone who has.

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[cabinbuilder]

I think you are letting the horror stories get to you. Personally, having had to work a full time job forever to support my husband and 2 kids going to med school was a refreshing change.

I started med school at age 32, had just gotten divorced and my kids were 2 and 5 at the time. I met my current husband in the applying process and he moved with me to help. I just started my internship year.

I am in a very nice program in Texas. It is not hell. You do your best and we have senior doctors here who help us with questions. You are never left to fend for yourself in a bad situation. Medical school is hard but if you are organized and committed I think I was a great decision for me.

Feel free to PM me if you wish. I don't read the boards much anymore.

 

[mshheaddoc]

From talking to the women who have done it with families, it takes balance. It takes a supportive spouse as well as outside support to usually get it done if you spouse is working full time.

Also many always put family in front of school. You might not ace everything but with the right scheduling you can figure out how to work it.

Everyone is different. If you don't think you could handle the stress or don't know if its worth it to you then you know the answer to the question. But if this is a career that deep in your heart you know you want to go on and you have a supportive spouse and family behind you, you'll find a way to make it work.

Every school and program is different. You find the one that fits YOUR needs.

 

[njbmd]

The title pretty much sums it up.

I'm single with no kids looking to embark on what I know is hell on earth for at least eight years. Have not applied yet and probably won't 'til next year, making my start age (assuming I get in) 35. That scares the crap out of me.

If I meet someone and decide to start a family (if all goes well, before starting school as my chances for dating once I'm in school are probably somewhere below zero), am I basically setting myself up for disaster?

As of now, my plan is to go into pediatrics, which I know can change a million times once you're exposed to different fields, but I'm not so sadistic to aim for some of the more cut-throat fields (not that peds wouldn't be enough of a challenge...)

Just from reading the boards of current med students and residents (esp. the "was it worth it" boards), I hear what kind of masochistic hell this period is for people in their 20s, and I can only imagine that being older and trying to "do it all" will be even more challenging. Impossible? I don't like to think so, but I'll gladly take a few buckets of ice cold reality dumped over my head by those of you who have been there, or know someone who has.

Started after 40 and now General Surgery resident. I am no more tired that my younger counterparts. It's just a matter of enjoying what you do and getting the job done. Is this career worth it for me? Ten-million times "yes". With every case that I perform, I know I made the right decision. Now headed for fellowship in vascular surgery.

 

[ekydrd]

37 entering med school, 41 when I graduated. I already had my kids and grew them up before starting tho. I do have a friend who is a 3rd yr peds resident over the age of 30 who is single (again) and not yet stressing over meeting a new guy and having a family.

I am like the previous poster... I love every minute of what I am doing!👍

 

[1Path]

I'm 40 🙂D ) and hope to start MD/PhD in the next 2 years with hubby and kiddos in tow. I personally think YOU have to bring happiness to medicine. In otherwords, folks who aren't happy in medicine probably wouldn't be happy in anything else either. Life is about choices and I'm just thrilled to have choices that even my parents didn't have.👍

 

[QofQuimica]

Just from reading the boards of current med students and residents (esp. the "was it worth it" boards), I hear what kind of masochistic hell this period is for people in their 20s, and I can only imagine that being older and trying to "do it all" will be even more challenging. Impossible? I don't like to think so, but I'll gladly take a few buckets of ice cold reality dumped over my head by those of you who have been there, or know someone who has.

You have to understand that the people who post those stories are the most disgruntled students and residents out there. There is a HUGE selection bias. I mean, if I'm busy and happy in med school (which I am), I'm probably not going to be inclined to come on SDN and start a new thread to trumpet how great I think it is to be in med school as a woman in my thirties (which I do). On the other hand, if I'm miserable, well, everyone needs to vent somewhere, and SDN is the venue of venting for many people. 😉 So I suggest taking these stories with a grain of salt. You know nothing about these people and why they are so miserable besides their one-sided stories. And I would guess that there are just as many (if not more) success stories for non-trad women. I posted in the other thread that med school is definitely not all fun and games. It's a lot of hard work. But it's really interesting, and I'm enjoying it for the most part. Plus, being a student beats having a "real" job any day of the week. 😛

I suggest that you talk to as many female docs as you can and ask them these questions. I think it will really ease your fears. As others have already said, there are as many ways to balance family and career as there are women doing it, and each person will have to figure out how to make the balance work for her. But if you want to do it, you can. And you definitely won't be the only one in your position. Good luck. 🙂

 

[mommy2three]

yep i most definetly think so....i will turn 32 next month and have no plans to do anything other than medicine 🙂

 

[Medmaid]

You guys (girls!) are great. Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[ShyRem]

I'm 39 and just started last month (August 9). Seems like forever ago - already more than halfway done with anatomy. But I digress. I started after moving my husband, two kids, two dogs, and entire household 2500 miles to have the opportunity to go to medical school. Hard work? The sheer volume is almost inconceivable, but not necessarily a hard-thinking kind of work. Do I have time for a life? absolutely. However, I do have a good firm foundation for a bunch of the anatomy (I was a paramedic before med school), and embryo is a story (or at least that's how I learn it - story line thinking). I understand how I learn best, and route memorization of stupid factoids I can't relate to anything else just doesn't work for me.

So when do I do my studying? Well, after everyone goes to sleep. So I get 2-3 hours in a night, and I put stuff on my palm so I can look at it when I have 5 or 10 minutes here and there. Amazing what kind of time you can find if you just work in 5 or 10 minutes here and there. But it also allows me to spend some good time with my kids and husband - yesterday we went shopping and for a drive (got lost 4 times, no kidding). Today we're going looking for a new microwave, Halloween stuff (we love that holiday), and we're gonna grill steaks on the BBQ for dinner. Perhaps we'll even all have a Tetris tournament tonight after dinner. 🙂 I do go into lab the weekend before a gross exam for 5 hours Sat and Sun to review stuff. Helps a bunch and is good review.

I laugh at my younger counterparts who say they just don't have enough time. I think the best part about being older and having family at home is your time management skills are absolutely outstanding. They have to be to get you as far as medical school.

It's totally doable. Will you honor in every subject? Perhaps not. Is high-passing as important to you as spending time with your husband and kids? Depends on you. But when was the last time you asked your doctor if he honored all his med school courses, or what his USMLE board scores were? Having a life is about balance. Being a good doctor is also about balance. And it's NOT necessarily all about the grade. (ok, if you wanna go into a field like derm or rads that's another story, but for the most part, I'm pretty sure I'm right.)

So to answer your question: Worth it? HECK YES. I'm happier than a puppy laying in the sun, and my husband is looking forward to 4 years from now when he can work part-time, and then 4 years later when he can retire and be an at-home dad/husband (and he deserves it). This is my dream, and it's coming true. It's worth every single minute. And I'm enjoying it immensely.

 

[efex101]

Started medical school at 38 with two kids (teens) and a very supportive husband. Is it worth it? YES *but* you do need a very good support system if you also have or are planning on having children...this is specially true for those with small children. The first two years you kind of make your own hours so to speak. You can opt to skip class and study on your own and then be home for your family. This is not possible during third year and of course residency. Here the hours can get pretty intense (more than 80/week) in some rotations so you obviously need a good supporty system to help with the children. This is totally doable (family and medicine) IF you understand that you will not be able to be Suzie Homemaker and super uber doctor. There will be times when medicine comes first and there will be other times when family comes first. As long as you go in with eyes wide open you will be fine. BTW although the clinical years are longer hour wise, they beat by miles the first two years IMHO. Good luck!

 

[Wackie]

Women who started med school after 30 - worth it?

I hope the hell it is! That's the same boat I'll be in...as soon as I get this pittily little bachelor's out of the way 😉

I think if it's something you want, age won't matter (within reason and 30 is definitely within reason!).


Good luck!

 

[hokte]

Started after 40 and now General Surgery resident. I am no more tired that my younger counterparts. It's just a matter of enjoying what you do and getting the job done. Is this career worth it for me? Ten-million times "yes". With every case that I perform, I know I made the right decision. Now headed for fellowship in vascular surgery.

You are my inspiration....🙂 I'm interested in Gen. Surgery or a Medicine residency, but people around me make it seem impossible for a woman with husband and child. I know there are others out there like me, but it's hard to find someone to talk to about.

 

[Lashaeot]

Your awesome, Surgical residency????? as a non-traditional? Your a true inspiration.

 

[JurisDoc]

The title pretty much sums it up.

I'm single with no kids looking to embark on what I know is hell on earth for at least eight years. Have not applied yet and probably won't 'til next year, making my start age (assuming I get in) 35. That scares the crap out of me.

If I meet someone and decide to start a family (if all goes well, before starting school as my chances for dating once I'm in school are probably somewhere below zero), am I basically setting myself up for disaster?

As of now, my plan is to go into pediatrics, which I know can change a million times once you're exposed to different fields, but I'm not so sadistic to aim for some of the more cut-throat fields (not that peds wouldn't be enough of a challenge...)

Just from reading the boards of current med students and residents (esp. the "was it worth it" boards), I hear what kind of masochistic hell this period is for people in their 20s, and I can only imagine that being older and trying to "do it all" will be even more challenging. Impossible? I don't like to think so, but I'll gladly take a few buckets of ice cold reality dumped over my head by those of you who have been there, or know someone who has.

Personally I think you may have it easier starting off the process as single. I know my husband is pretty frustrated at this idea and even though he says he supports me, he made a comment the other day when I was brainstorming ways to get volunteer experience and raise my GPA...I felt like he wasn't fully listening and he eluded that this was all just a "pipe dream until I get in" so why worry about it? Well he seems to think it's easy to get in. When I mentioned to him that I may have to apply to more schools than just our state school, and that we'd have to sell our house since we need both of our incomes for the mortgage, and that I may get an out-of-state residency, his enthusiasm dropped significantly.

My point is that if you meet someone from here on out, they will be forewarned of the career path you have chosen and it will be easier on them. It's a little unfair of me to "dump" this on my husband and disrupt our plans of settling into our great big new house and starting a family.

 

[Frank Hardy]

To njbmd:
You're also my hero!

 

[Orb]

🙂

 

[TexasRose]

I'm 36, married mother of 3 and in my 3rd year of med school. (rule of 3's???)

I won't say it's easy, but if it's what you truly want to do it is well worth it. 🙂 I'm very happy to be where I am and wouldn't change it. Sure, sometimes I come home a little exhausted and wish that the family would take care of itself. Sometimes I'm driving into the hospital wishing the patients could take care of themselves because I'm worried about something at home. But that's par for the course for any working woman.

I love medicine and I have a supportive and understanding family. (and a nanny, good childcare is essential in this business!)

Good luck!

 

[Orthodoc40]

Started after 40 and now General Surgery resident. I am no more tired that my younger counterparts. It's just a matter of enjoying what you do and getting the job done. Is this career worth it for me? Ten-million times "yes". With every case that I perform, I know I made the right decision. Now headed for fellowship in vascular surgery.

Njbmd - Thank you. I needed that. The application process has been so draining - it's good to hear from someone who has gone through something similar to what I hope to do and say these things about it.

 

[Orthodoc40]

You have to understand that the people who post those stories are the most disgruntled students and residents out there. There is a HUGE selection bias. I mean, if I'm busy and happy in med school (which I am), I'm probably not going to be inclined to come on SDN and start a new thread to trumpet how great I think it is to be in med school as a woman in my thirties (which I do). On the other hand, if I'm miserable, well, everyone needs to vent somewhere, and SDN is the venue of venting for many people. 😉 So I suggest taking these stories with a grain of salt.
Good luck. 🙂

This is a great reminder!

 

[trustwomen]

If I meet someone and decide to start a family (if all goes well, before starting school as my chances for dating once I'm in school are probably somewhere below zero), am I basically setting myself up for disaster?

Note that most women who start in their 30s either already have kids, or don't want any. If you want to be a doctor so bad that you're willing to take the risk of never having biological children, go for it. I say this because, like it or not, that risk is real. I made my peace with it a few years ago. I'm 30 and in first year now, so will be 34 before I can realistically start trying for kids, possibly older (depending on "doability" during the residency I match into). If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I'll be a doctor, and I can adopt if I really feel the need to.

Dating while in school? Definitely possible. Falling in love, getting married, all that great stuff? Also possible. Having a tiny, helpless 24-hour-a-day responsibility on top of med school? Not so much, unless you're REALLY set up properly. Finding someone and having a baby in the next year seems kind of unlikely. But if you are set on biological kids, I'd recommend having them first and putting off med school until they are "daycare-age" (whatever that age is for you). Unless you have a SAH spouse who can really stretch those student loans, or your free-babysittin'-mom living nearby, etc...

Other than that one caveat, go for it. I'm loving it, and would recommend it to anyone (even though I am imbued with "cadaver smell" for the first time today, and can't get it to go away).

Good luck!

 

[trustwomen]

Personally I think you may have it easier starting off the process as single. I know my husband is pretty frustrated at this idea and even though he says he supports me, he made a comment the other day when I was brainstorming ways to get volunteer experience and raise my GPA...I felt like he wasn't fully listening and he eluded that this was all just a "pipe dream until I get in" so why worry about it? Well he seems to think it's easy to get in. When I mentioned to him that I may have to apply to more schools than just our state school, and that we'd have to sell our house since we need both of our incomes for the mortgage, and that I may get an out-of-state residency, his enthusiasm dropped significantly.

My point is that if you meet someone from here on out, they will be forewarned of the career path you have chosen and it will be easier on them. It's a little unfair of me to "dump" this on my husband and disrupt our plans of settling into our great big new house and starting a family.

I don't think it's unfair of you at all. When you realize what your dream is, what will make you fulfilled and happy, you owe it to yourself and everyone around you to go for it. Otherwise, you will wind up bitter and angry and resentful, making their lives as hellish as you feel yours has become.

It's a shame that your husband isn't more supportive, especially because having a doctor wife takes off so much financial pressure on a guy (this seems to be the main "stress" complaint upon hitting middle age, right? having to be the wallet?)

If this idea and dream has grabbed you, has called you, don't you dare turn back. At least give it every possible shot you can, through preparation and a few well-thought-out application cycles. Then, even if it doesn't work out, you won't have that bitterness, because you'll know you tried - and "HE" didn't "take it away from you".

 

[sumozmom]

Started after 40 and now General Surgery resident. I am no more tired that my younger counterparts. It's just a matter of enjoying what you do and getting the job done. Is this career worth it for me? Ten-million times "yes". With every case that I perform, I know I made the right decision. Now headed for fellowship in vascular surgery.

wow ur amazing...i'm 38 saying ITS too late.....how old will u be when ur DONE

 

[Orthodoc40]

wow ur amazing...i'm 38 saying ITS too late.....how old will u be when ur DONE

Nah - I know a 46 year old Nurse Practitioner who was applying.

 

[njbmd]

wow ur amazing...i'm 38 saying ITS too late.....how old will u be when ur DONE

How much energy you have and how much physical stamina you have are largely personal characteristics. I know plenty of very tired 24 year olds who are looking for a way to retire and who are exhausted before an 8 hour shift is complete.

I know that I am a bit unusual and that I tend to thrive in places that others find not so comforting. It's not so much a characteristic of my age as my personality. I have always, from childhood to now, challenged myself both mentally and physically. I know 100 year olds who go bowling everyday. I also know 15 year olds who can barely walk up a flight of stairs.

You have to decide what you want and go for it. For me, it was medical school and now vascular surgery. I am blessed to be able to accomplish what I want to do. I have a very supportive fiance who loves the fact that his future wife is a surgeon. He's happily waiting for us to settle into where I will be practicing.

This job and this career is not for everyone. It's a combination of age, energy and desire. If you have the desire and are willing/able to put in the time that it takes to achieve this career, then it is likely "worth it"for you.

The biggest drawback for most older applicants to medical school is that they often have families who have needs (living indoors, food, health insurance). Medical education is extremely "all consuming" for those who do not have family obligations but add in the family and it becomes more of a risk because your family can suffer financially if you fail. Many people with families do not want to put their family at that risk and therefore will bypass medicine as a career. This is the nature of the career and it's preparation.

I promise everyone that I am no "hero" or "role model". I am simply a woman who decides what she wants and goes for it full blast. I am also fortunate to have good health and good study habits too. I also chose not to have children and a family largely because I am definitely NOT "mother-material". I am a wonderful aunt though and I love and guide my nephews as much as possible but I never wanted children and that is not likely to change. There was no point in my life that I wanted to give birth again, a personal decision, decided long before medical school.

Medicine can be done with children (I have plenty of colleagues both male and female who have children and were excellent medical students, residents and attendings) and medicine can be done at any age (the oldest person in my medical school class was 53 when he started). If this career is truly what you want, then you find a way to get it done and keep your family safe and happy. It's harder but it can be done. 👍

 

[Orthodoc40]

How much energy you have and how much physical stamina you have are largely personal characteristics. I know plenty of very tired 24 year olds who are looking for a way to retire and who are exhausted before an 8 hour shift is complete.

I know that I am a bit unusual and that I tend to thrive in places that others find not so comforting. It's not so much a characteristic of my age as my personality. I have always, from childhood to now, challenged myself both mentally and physically. I know 100 year olds who go bowling everyday. I also know 15 year olds who can barely walk up a flight of stairs.

You have to decide what you want and go for it. For me, it was medical school and now vascular surgery. I am blessed to be able to accomplish what I want to do. I have a very supportive fiance who loves the fact that his future wife is a surgeon. He's happily waiting for us to settle into where I will be practicing.

This job and this career is not for everyone. It's a combination of age, energy and desire. If you have the desire and are willing/able to put in the time that it takes to achieve this career, then it is likely "worth it"for you.

The biggest drawback for most older applicants to medical school is that they often have families who have needs (living indoors, food, health insurance). Medical education is extremely "all consuming" for those who do not have family obligations but add in the family and it becomes more of a risk because your family can suffer financially if you fail. Many people with families do not want to put their family at that risk and therefore will bypass medicine as a career. This is the nature of the career and it's preparation.

I promise everyone that I am no "hero" or "role model". I am simply a woman who decides what she wants and goes for it full blast. I am also fortunate to have good health and good study habits too. I also chose not to have children and a family largely because I am definitely NOT "mother-material". I am a wonderful aunt though and I love and guide my nephews as much as possible but I never wanted children and that is not likely to change. There was no point in my life that I wanted to give birth again, a personal decision, decided long before medical school.

Medicine can be done with children (I have plenty of colleagues both male and female who have children and were excellent medical students, residents and attendings) and medicine can be done at any age (the oldest person in my medical school class was 53 when he started). If this career is truly what you want, then you find a way to get it done and keep your family safe and happy. It's harder but it can be done. 👍

I'm still going to print your post & save it as a reminder while I'm buried in studies next fall!! If I can find it then.... 🙂

 

[nuocmua]

Where are all you studying? Are schools there decent, anf safe for kids?
Thanks

 

[cfdavid]

I'm 39 and just started last month (August 9). Seems like forever ago - already more than halfway done with anatomy. But I digress. I started after moving my husband, two kids, two dogs, and entire household 2500 miles to have the opportunity to go to medical school. Hard work? The sheer volume is almost inconceivable, but not necessarily a hard-thinking kind of work. Do I have time for a life? absolutely. However, I do have a good firm foundation for a bunch of the anatomy (I was a paramedic before med school), and embryo is a story (or at least that's how I learn it - story line thinking). I understand how I learn best, and route memorization of stupid factoids I can't relate to anything else just doesn't work for me.

So when do I do my studying? Well, after everyone goes to sleep. So I get 2-3 hours in a night, and I put stuff on my palm so I can look at it when I have 5 or 10 minutes here and there. Amazing what kind of time you can find if you just work in 5 or 10 minutes here and there. But it also allows me to spend some good time with my kids and husband - yesterday we went shopping and for a drive (got lost 4 times, no kidding). Today we're going looking for a new microwave, Halloween stuff (we love that holiday), and we're gonna grill steaks on the BBQ for dinner. Perhaps we'll even all have a Tetris tournament tonight after dinner. 🙂 I do go into lab the weekend before a gross exam for 5 hours Sat and Sun to review stuff. Helps a bunch and is good review.

I laugh at my younger counterparts who say they just don't have enough time. I think the best part about being older and having family at home is your time management skills are absolutely outstanding. They have to be to get you as far as medical school.

It's totally doable. Will you honor in every subject? Perhaps not. Is high-passing as important to you as spending time with your husband and kids? Depends on you. But when was the last time you asked your doctor if he honored all his med school courses, or what his USMLE board scores were? Having a life is about balance. Being a good doctor is also about balance. And it's NOT necessarily all about the grade. (ok, if you wanna go into a field like derm or rads that's another story, but for the most part, I'm pretty sure I'm right.)

So to answer your question: Worth it? HECK YES. I'm happier than a puppy laying in the sun, and my husband is looking forward to 4 years from now when he can work part-time, and then 4 years later when he can retire and be an at-home dad/husband (and he deserves it). This is my dream, and it's coming true. It's worth every single minute. And I'm enjoying it immensely.

Shy, that was such a great post. I'm so happy for you. Really am.

In many ways I feel the same way. That med school was the best thing that has ever happened to me. I love it. But, my situation IS different from yours as I'm not a dad or husband yet. Nevertheless, I'm glad to hear all is well on your end. And great job in maintaining that balance. Your husband appreciates that, and I'm willing to bet my life!!

 

[Pemberley]

By the way, I got one of those medical school brochures that really impressed me, and I've been meaning to mention it somewhere -- this thread seems like a good place.

It was from Pitt, and it profiled maybe 10-12 of their medical students. The impressive part was that one was a mother (I think she came in with one and then had another, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details at this point). She emphasized how easy to work with the administration had been about her family stuff.

At most schools one gets the impression that they wouldn't look favorably on family planning. So I thought that brochure was neat.

 

[NY Musicologist]

I promise everyone that I am no "hero" or "role model". I am simply a woman who decides what she wants and goes for it full blast.

njbmd, you may have posted this elsewhere--or you may not care to share the info, which is your prerogative--but I've always been curious as to what you were doing before you entered medicine and/or what propelled you toward the field.

(not intending to hijack the op's thread...sorry! 😳 )

 

[supercut]

I started med school at 38 and now am in 3rd year of gen surgery residency. Also single with no kids.

I really enjoyed med school (in fact I look back on that as one of the best times of my life), and also initially enjoyed residency. Now I'm starting to have serious second thoughts. Granted, surgery is one of the hardest residencies there is. And I took a lab year, so this is really my 4th year as a resident. If I had chosen another field, I'd be finishing this year. Currently I face 2 more years, plus possibly a fellowship.

My personal experience is that the schedule and the MD degree makes it much harder to date. (went out with one guy last year who kept saying "I keep thinking that becuase you're a doctor I'm taking up your time"). Though I've never been all that popular to being with, I think that now I have just another obstacle. Obiously I'm too old to have my own kids now...there have been a few women in my program with kids, but most who have kids here wound up switching to anesthesia. Not to mention that there is very little free time and most of that time I'm feeling a fatigue that I never felt before and is almost indescribable.

Aside from being increasingly more exhausted and beaten down by surgery reisdency, there is something else that I didn't think about until recently.

Not only am I a 45 year old surgery resident with 32 months to go before I can make a decent living, I also have significant student loan debt and virutally nothing saved for retirement. Had I not gone to med school, that would not be the case. Going to med school cost me one of the most valuable assets one can have...the time value of money (ie the savings..but most important, the interest that I would have had...that I could have done over the past 9 years (2 years taking classes to prepare for med school, 4 years of med schoool, 3 years of residency).

I still like to operate, but it is starting to take a serious toll on my health and well being. Most of the time I go home and just fall asleep. I can feel my fitness decline, and I'm too beat up at the end of the day to go to the gym. While the conventional wisdom is that attendings don't work as hard as residents, the attendings work plenty hard. I'm not sure I want to continue beating myself up for the years it will take to pay off the loans and get ready to retire. I'm worried about how long I will have to keep this up (will I have to work until I'm to beat up to enjoy life?) Add to that the fact that doctor's pay is going down (and reibursement is absolutely crazy). Granted starting at $250,000 or so a year isn't bad, but it's not as much as you think...especially after the government takes a good chunk of that away from you. You say you are interested in peds...these days in peds you are doing well to start at $100K a year.

A year ago I would have told you it's totally worth it. Now I'm not so sure.

If you do decide to go for it, I would be exteremely obsessive about limiting student loan debt as much as possible. Student loans are easier to get than water, but very, very painful to pay off. In my opinion, you should not have total student loan debt which is greater than your likely starting pay.

Just my $0.02. Take it or leave it.

 

[1Path]

I think the previous post highlights the fact that women, especialy those that may want a family need to consider ALL the issues with picking a residency. It's REAL easy to see someone else's story and think to youself "hey I can do that too" without looking at whether or not that person's personal life is one you wish to emulate.

I'm very fortunate to have role model women pathologist who love their careers and who have husbands/families which I think is extremely important in deciding whether or not I can do it too. Sure, anything can be done but having the ability to do something doesn't always make it the best thing to pursue or do for everyone.

 

[haafwifey79]

i am 27, and after taking business at school, i decided i HATE it. i've always had an interest in science, they were much more interesting in school, but somehow never thought it was for me. all the kids i remember from high school that wanted to be MD's were all into getting perfect grades from the age 2! they just all seemed like they knew what they wanted. and i really wasn't sure. i was good at math and science, my guidance counsellor told me to pick business, or engineering.

anyhow ... it was really refreshing and inspirational to read all of your stories. i can see now it is all possible, with A LOT of hard work. i do have some questions if anyone could help me. sorry to hijack your thread a lil bit.

ok ... so i have my undergrad in accounting and finance ... 3.7 gpa ... from what i've read throughout the site ... that isn't good. i have never taken the mcat ... i am very determined. my husband is wonderful. we don't have any children yet. but i am worried about moving and having to transfer courses.

where do i go from here? do i start over, go back to school and get another undergrad, like a B.S in biology? i went to school in canada, married a soldier and moved to the usa ... how can i go about getting my pre-reqs to get into med school?

i am interested in radiology, i was originally thinking that i would take a rad science program, become a radiology tech and take the pre reqs there for med school. i figure i would have a career to fall back on. as much i am interested in becoming a doctor ... i have no idea what i am really trying to get into yet. like the previous poster said, it can be done, but doesn't mean all should do it. i want to, that is all i have to go on. i have no idea what to do or where to start. any suggestions? i don't think i can just go to a school without taking a majority of some major with them. im so lost.

 

[southerncomfort]

Note that most women who start in their 30s either already have kids, or don't want any. If you want to be a doctor so bad that you're willing to take the risk of never having biological children, go for it. I say this because, like it or not, that risk is real. I made my peace with it a few years ago. I'm 30 and in first year now, so will be 34 before I can realistically start trying for kids, possibly older (depending on "doability" during the residency I match into). If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I'll be a doctor, and I can adopt if I really feel the need to.

Dating while in school? Definitely possible. Falling in love, getting married, all that great stuff? Also possible. Having a tiny, helpless 24-hour-a-day responsibility on top of med school? Not so much, unless you're REALLY set up properly. Finding someone and having a baby in the next year seems kind of unlikely. But if you are set on biological kids, I'd recommend having them first and putting off med school until they are "daycare-age" (whatever that age is for you). Unless you have a SAH spouse who can really stretch those student loans, or your free-babysittin'-mom living nearby, etc...

Other than that one caveat, go for it. I'm loving it, and would recommend it to anyone (even though I am imbued with "cadaver smell" for the first time today, and can't get it to go away).

Good luck!

I disagree with this idea--I'm over 30, just started, married, and we plan to have a kiddo in the next two years. It can be done, and many people do it every year. In my class, there are two women who are pregnant now, plus four guys whose wives are expecting. Additionally, there are several who already have kids, and two who are single moms. It just takes flexibility. You may not be able to do everything as perfectly as you'd hoped, but it can be done. Many schools also offer on-site daycare facilities for students, faculty, and staff.

Heck, I wasn't even *ready* for kids, until after I was accepted (strange life-turning moment). And I wouldn't recommend having kids to anyone unless you are ready as a person to be a parent, not just because it fits a timeline.
Remember, life goes on, even in med school. And if the time in your life comes that you want to have children falls occurs while you're in school, it can be done. Schools do have leave policies to handle this, just like they would for other situations, like illness.

 

[primadonna22274]

The poster above has pointed out something I've been concerned about. I didn't go to med school 9 yr ago (unsupportive ex-husband mostly, but also my fear I wouldn't get in). I "settled" for PA. For the most part, being a PA has been a lucky compromise since I've been able to practice medicine (albeit more limited scope than that of a physician) and I've been happy at times but never content.
Now, fast forward to 2006: I've moved cross-country and my scope of practice is even more limited, and I'm finally ready to just go to med school. Very supportive boyfriend for the past 2 yr, long-term potential but not yet married.
No kids for either of us, but we more than likely will.
So how doable is med school and pregnancy/infancy? I'm not too keen on daycare but the truth is we're both a long way from home & family and even if we were to have kids now, while we're both working f/t (me PA in ER, alternating shifts, unpredictable schedule; he as high-school history teacher commuting 45 min one-way to work) it would be tough. I think it might actually be easier with me in school with a somewhat predictable schedule.
Either that or I put it off another 4-5 years till residency by which time I'll be 37-38 and have even less time for bambini.
😕 😕 😕

 

[makingmd]

If you don't mind me asking. I would love a place that is open to that environment. Thanks.

 

[southerncomfort]

If you don't mind me asking. I would love a place that is open to that environment. Thanks.

LSU-New Orleans. Maybe with a state school you get more families who want to stay near home? We have a "Marriage and Parenting Forum" for and by students coming up soon, and our Women in Medicine group is having a "Balancing Family and Career" panel for the next meeting. And there's supposed to be daycare on campus, but I don't think it's back open yet (a Katrina thing). Everyone with kids in the first year class seems to be holding up well and things are balancing well so far. 🙂

 

[supercut]

The poster above has pointed out something I've been concerned about. I didn't go to med school 9 yr ago (unsupportive ex-husband mostly, but also my fear I wouldn't get in). I "settled" for PA. For the most part, being a PA has been a lucky compromise since I've been able to practice medicine (albeit more limited scope than that of a physician) and I've been happy at times but never content.
Now, fast forward to 2006: I've moved cross-country and my scope of practice is even more limited, and I'm finally ready to just go to med school. Very supportive boyfriend for the past 2 yr, long-term potential but not yet married.
No kids for either of us, but we more than likely will.
So how doable is med school and pregnancy/infancy? I'm not too keen on daycare but the truth is we're both a long way from home & family and even if we were to have kids now, while we're both working f/t (me PA in ER, alternating shifts, unpredictable schedule; he as high-school history teacher commuting 45 min one-way to work) it would be tough. I think it might actually be easier with me in school with a somewhat predictable schedule.
Either that or I put it off another 4-5 years till residency by which time I'll be 37-38 and have even less time for bambini.
😕 😕 😕

I was NP before med school and was dissatisfied with my scope of practice as well...I can totally relate to feeling like I settled for less than I really wanted. That's what I felt, and that's why I went to med school. And for a while, I was very happy and encouraged others to do the same. I had people try to talk me out of it, and I refused to listen.

Now that I'm this far into it, I see that it ain't as rosy as I thought it would be. Reimbursement is decreasing yearly, new rules and regulations are being started regularly that adversely impact the practice of medicine but don't affect midlevel providers (not yet, anyway). I'm thinking specifically of things like pay for performance here (where if you don't meet specific criteria, which may even not be all that relevant, you will get paid even less!!).

There is a LOT to be said for a job where you can leave at a specific time, and not have to think about work again til you show up the next day.

I have come to undrstant that per unit of effort expended, midlevel providers pay works out to be better than that of a MD. Just food for thought.

 

[sistahnik]

This thread is so encouraging b/c I think this is what my problem has been for the last couple of weeks. I am ready to start dating again and thinking about marriage and children. I was worried that I would have to choose one or the other but then I thought about it and I would never marry someone who didn't want to come on board with my whole life. I would never try to hinder someone else's dream so I expect the same in return. I am so glad that I read the posts b/c I have a new perspective on it now. Thanks guys!!
Hey njbmd and 1path! 👍

 

[primadonna22274]

Thanks supercut. I appreciate your unique insight here.
The thing is, as a PA in family medicine for the past 6+ yr I've never had a job where I could leave at the end of the day and not worry about work until the next day. So many of the patients stayed on my mind and it was hard to just leave work at work. Of course I don't think for a second this will change as a doc.
I hear you about declining reimbursement and I admit that gives me pause, especially considering the reach of my student loans already ($115k, ouch). The only way I could foresee doing med school is to do it as cheaply as possible. Fortunately I could still work a tiny bit (maybe 4 ER shifts/mo, 12hr) and make enough to cover basic living expenses & housing.
I think the declining reimbursement will hit the midlevels sooner than later, as a trickle-down effect from their employers. The majority of we midlevels are not in practice for ourselves (I know some NPs can do it; a very tiny minority of PAs do it) and so we don't call the shots. I've become a pretty good negotiator over the past few years but still never earned production pay even when the clinic was billing over $400k/yr for my services (although they did bring the salary up respectably).
Med school for me is about personal satisfaction. My plan is to get in, get out, do a residency (likely FP since it's truly my first love) and work for a community health center where I can earn either national or state loan repayment. The other benefit of CHCs is that many of those I'm familiar with (back home in OR/WA) are not-for-profit groups with lots of solid federal & state funding and awesome benefits and work hours. And sure, I could go back and work with the FPs at my former job but eight years down the road, how do I know they'll still be the same group? It's all a gamble, I guess.
*Sigh*...I know nobody else can answer this for me, dammit.
Lisa

I was NP before med school and was dissatisfied with my scope of practice as well...I can totally relate to feeling like I settled for less than I really wanted. That's what I felt, and that's why I went to med school. And for a while, I was very happy and encouraged others to do the same. I had people try to talk me out of it, and I refused to listen.

Now that I'm this far into it, I see that it ain't as rosy as I thought it would be. Reimbursement is decreasing yearly, new rules and regulations are being started regularly that adversely impact the practice of medicine but don't affect midlevel providers (not yet, anyway). I'm thinking specifically of things like pay for performance here (where if you don't meet specific criteria, which may even not be all that relevant, you will get paid even less!!).

There is a LOT to be said for a job where you can leave at a specific time, and not have to think about work again til you show up the next day.

I have come to undrstant that per unit of effort expended, midlevel providers pay works out to be better than that of a MD. Just food for thought.

 

[supercut]

Thanks supercut. I appreciate your unique insight here.
The thing is, as a PA in family medicine for the past 6+ yr I've never had a job where I could leave at the end of the day and not worry about work until the next day. So many of the patients stayed on my mind and it was hard to just leave work at work. Of course I don't think for a second this will change as a doc.
I hear you about declining reimbursement and I admit that gives me pause, especially considering the reach of my student loans already ($115k, ouch). The only way I could foresee doing med school is to do it as cheaply as possible. Fortunately I could still work a tiny bit (maybe 4 ER shifts/mo, 12hr) and make enough to cover basic living expenses & housing.
I think the declining reimbursement will hit the midlevels sooner than later, as a trickle-down effect from their employers. The majority of we midlevels are not in practice for ourselves (I know some NPs can do it; a very tiny minority of PAs do it) and so we don't call the shots. I've become a pretty good negotiator over the past few years but still never earned production pay even when the clinic was billing over $400k/yr for my services (although they did bring the salary up respectably).
Med school for me is about personal satisfaction. My plan is to get in, get out, do a residency (likely FP since it's truly my first love) and work for a community health center where I can earn either national or state loan repayment. The other benefit of CHCs is that many of those I'm familiar with (back home in OR/WA) are not-for-profit groups with lots of solid federal & state funding and awesome benefits and work hours. And sure, I could go back and work with the FPs at my former job but eight years down the road, how do I know they'll still be the same group? It's all a gamble, I guess.
*Sigh*...I know nobody else can answer this for me, dammit.
Lisa

I understand the whole personal satisfaction thing...that was an issue for me too. All I can say is right now, almost half way through a general surgery residency, I am more dissatisfied with my life and career choice than I have ever been in the past. If I had known then what I know now..(and by that I mean not just the facts, but what it feels like to be in the position I am in now) I'm pretty sure I would not have done it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think so because there are enough surveys published showing MDs are increasingly dissatisfied to suggest that the whole system is fundamentally flawed. Just food for thought.

 

[1Path]

There is a LOT to be said for a job where you can leave at a specific time, and not have to think about work again til you show up the next day.

As a Scientist, first in industry then at a major organization, I also had many days were I not only "thought" about my experiments at home but often took work home in the form of reading papers.

Contrary to popular their are dozens of careers produce the same level (not type) of worreis that are seen in medicine. In fact, I'd say that ANY job that pays well, means you're going to "worry well" too.

 

[MeowMix]

Supercut is right on about debt. As a non-trad starting med school at 42, finances were the biggest issue - I just would not have gone to school if I knew I would end up $100,000 in debt at the age of 50, regardless of my dreams. I was lucky to have enough savings (I sold my house) to pay my bills and will graduate debt-free. This really is a huge burden and should not be underestimated.

Re having kids: 15 years ago I got some excellent advice from a group of nationally renowned women scientists, who told me not to plan my life around what I thought I was going to do. At the time, I was single but fully expected to have kids and was arranging my life accordingly, making compromises to suit my future role as a mother. I'm glad I did not limit myself back then, since I'm now in a happy LTR without kids.

However, there is a problem with applying this concept to med school: if you go, and then have kids, you will be too far in debt to be able to cut back a lot on your work schedule, unless you have a very lucrative specialty or a wealthy partner.

I wouldn't describe med school as masochistic hell. It's a big challenge, but it's amazing how much you can learn in a year or two. I have no problems with energy level; I can keep up with anyone on 24-hr ob/gyn call nights (let's see how that looks after another 5 years of sleep deprivation )

 

[MeowMix]

As a Scientist, first in industry then at a major organization, I also had many days were I not only "thought" about my experiments at home but often took work home in the form of reading papers.

Contrary to popular their are dozens of careers produce the same level (not type) of worreis that are seen in medicine. In fact, I'd say that ANY job that pays well, means you're going to "worry well" too.

I'd agree that any high-level professional job demands a lot of hours and a lot of attention. But, having been a research scientist, I'd say there are big differences - none of my experiments were ever going to die if I made a bad decision about their management. This would be different if you were working with animal or human subjects, but the stakes in medicine, in general, are much much higher.

 

[locoindio]

I was wondering if anybody had any input on the following: I'll probably 30-31 when I start med school, and it seems like to a lot of people the bottom line is that I'm too old, which doesn't make that much sense to me. If 31 is old, then what the heck does that make someone who is 40,50,60? Why is it that if someone has a heart attack at 50, 'he/she is so young. i can't believe he/she had a heart attack' but when it comes to something positive like aspiring to become a doctor, suddenly the thirties is too old? I come from a pretty conservative community (Indian-American community, diff from native american), and there is a timeline on which it does things. If you're in your late twenties when you start that's bad enough but to start in the thirties is just weird, wrong, impractical, foolish, and a product of being a loser......that's what it feels like anyway. To anyone who might be from a similar community, perhaps some insight on your behalf? What's the deal....and why does it make a difference?

Loco

 

[njbmd]

I was wondering if anybody had any input on the following: I'll probably 30-31 when I start med school, and it seems like to a lot of people the bottom line is that I'm too old, which doesn't make that much sense to me. If 31 is old, then what the heck does that make someone who is 40,50,60? Why is it that if someone has a heart attack at 50, 'he/she is so young. i can't believe he/she had a heart attack' but when it comes to something positive like aspiring to become a doctor, suddenly the thirties is too old? I come from a pretty conservative community (Indian-American community, diff from native american), and there is a timeline on which it does things. If you're in your late twenties when you start that's bad enough but to start in the thirties is just weird, wrong, impractical, foolish, and a product of being a loser......that's what it feels like anyway. To anyone who might be from a similar community, perhaps some insight on your behalf? What's the deal....and why does it make a difference?Loco

The answer to the questions that you ask is "What do you think?" After all, it is your life and your profession. If you believe that 30-31 is too old for medical school and you are 30-31, then you will be too old.

There is certainly evidence that illustrates that people who are in their 40s, 50s and 60s can graduate from medical school and have successful careers. There is evidence that people who are in their 20s can graduate from medical school and NOT have a successful career. What does matter is what you believe to be true and possible for yourself.

That being said, it is difficult to pursue ANY career without the backing and emotional support of your family and those who's opinions matter to you. What you have to decide is whether or not you want to pursue this career in light of the fact that many people you care about may not be fully backing you and your choice.

All else being equal, your age is not going to be a significant deterrent to a career in medicine in the United States.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The thing is, as a PA in family medicine for the past 6+ yr I've never had a job where I could leave at the end of the day and not worry about work until the next day. So many of the patients stayed on my mind and it was hard to just leave work at work. Of course I don't think for a second this will change as a doc.

You can change this, but it will take a bit of re-framing. Just like you have a dedication to your work, you need to have a dedication to your life outside of the practice/hospital....which means you need to leave work at work. The work/life split is really important, and can really enhance your overall satisfaction in both arenas. This split was the reason I changed careers, and I'm much healthier for it.

-t

 

[supercut]

As a Scientist, first in industry then at a major organization, I also had many days were I not only "thought" about my experiments at home but often took work home in the form of reading papers.

Contrary to popular their are dozens of careers produce the same level (not type) of worreis that are seen in medicine. In fact, I'd say that ANY job that pays well, means you're going to "worry well" too.

I don't mind thinking about my pts at home. What is getting to me right now is that I cannot predict what time I can PHYSICALLY leave work.

I can look at the OR schedule, and see only 2 cases booked for the morning and fall into the trap of thinking, "Oh, good, today is going to be a light day". Then before you know it, there are 2 pts from the ED and an inpt that medicine has been sitting on for 3 days (and of course the consult call comes after 4pm) and before you know it, you are in the OR until 8pm and you haven't done afternoon rounds yet and you don't leave until 9 or later.

Or on a Saturday, I'm scheduled to go in to round, but then lo and behold, there was an ED admit Friday night that needs to go to the OR so suddenly a 3 hour day has turned into an 8 hour day (and since last Saturday the same thing happened...Now it's been weeks since I've been able to even go to the bank and I have a check that will probably expire before I can ever get around to cashing it). And then I'm trying to maintain some semblance of a social life so I go to dinner on Sat (after I've been in the OR for 5 hours)with some friends, and I'm falling asleep while during the 30 minute seating wait. (good thing I wasn't on a date!)

To me, there is a huge difference between thinking about your work at home and not being able to physically leave at a defined, reasonable time. And if I wasn't so exausted from being physically at work so unpredictably, I'd be reading more at home too.

 

[locoindio]

Njbmd,
First of all lemme say thanks for replying to my post. I found your remark that, if I personally feel too old to attend medical school at a later age, then that's my answer, to be particularly poignant. I guess I'm somewhere in between wanting to settle down and exploring. I kinda feel like at 27, I should have more stuff figured out by now. Since I've graduated college (2002), I've gone through and mostly recovered from some pretty bad depression (I have really bad OCD), really haven't worked anywhere for longer than 6 months, and broke up with my girlfriend. My parents are pretty disappointed in me, and I'm wondering why it's been so hard for me to commit to something. I still live at home, even though I'm in school and have a part time job. I see people my age working, getting married, some of them are even having kids, and I guess it's made me feel behind in my progression....even a little suffocated, too. It's difficult to explain. Maybe somebody on this board can relate, I dunno. I have a very strong passion for music that I have been balancing with the entire pre-med process as well, and it's been tough. Part of me wants to pursue a career in music because I love it, but another part of me also thinks the science of medicine is interesting and that maybe I haven't given it the chance it deserves. I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like I'm 27 going on 40 or something, when deep down I know that I shouldn't be so worried about life at this or any age. I'm not entirely sure why I feel this way. I dunno. Anybody got any thoughts to add?

Loco

The answer to the questions that you ask is "What do you think?" After all, it is your life and your profession. If you believe that 30-31 is too old for medical school and you are 30-31, then you will be too old.

There is certainly evidence that illustrates that people who are in their 40s, 50s and 60s can graduate from medical school and have successful careers. There is evidence that people who are in their 20s can graduate from medical school and NOT have a successful career. What does matter is what you believe to be true and possible for yourself.

That being said, it is difficult to pursue ANY career without the backing and emotional support of your family and those who's opinions matter to you. What you have to decide is whether or not you want to pursue this career in light of the fact that many people you care about may not be fully backing you and your choice.

All else being equal, your age is not going to be a significant deterrent to a career in medicine in the United States.

 

[1Path]

But, having been a research scientist, I'd say there are big differences - none of my experiments were ever going to die if I made a bad decision about their management.

This is a bit of a ridiculous response and a HUGE oversimpliication of the job duties of MOST Scientists, espeically in industry. One of MY jobs in industry involved making sure formulations for pharmaceutical products were correct. With you being a medical student, I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on why THAT job was important.

To me, there is a huge difference between thinking about your work at home and not being able to physically leave at a defined, reasonable time.

I've heard nurses say this too!😉
My comments weren't intended to be a which job is "more important" contest which I realize would be futile anyway with this crowd. Just an acknowledgement that medicine isn't the ONLY "high stakes" job in town.