Working 2 days per week

[sliceofbread136]

Guys, this was just hypothetical. I'm already in my Psych residency. I was just curious if something like that was attainable. Some of you pointed out facts and technicalities that I wasn't aware of. Good info to have in the back of your mind.

do sleep/psych!!

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[smq123]

There are ER docs who work 2 days/wk (20-24 hrs) and still make 200k+ year... Even IM docs can crack 150k+ working 24 hrs/wk. If one continues to live like a resident for a few years, you should have no problem to pay back student loan.

This is not directed at you. It seems like the top 3% income earners kind of don't realize the average family of 4 are doing ok on a 75-90k/year salary, and a lot of them have debts, albeit not our astronomical debt.

Hmmmm.

So I actually DO work part time - 3 days a week. And what you described is roughly my current situation.

Now that I think about it more, I could probably support a family of 3 with my current income and still pay off loans. But I think it would lead to a lot of trade-offs that I don't think I would be willing to make forever. Mostly not investing a lot into retirement, renting instead of owning forever, not investing enough into the kid's college fund, etc. But you're right, it would be doable if not completely pleasant in the long run.

 

[smq123]

If you want to be a bum you can also live in your parents basement.

If you hate the idea of being a physician so much that you would only work 2 days a week why go into it?

Wanting to work two days a week doesn't mean that you necessarily hate being a physician. It just means that you value other things more/equally.

I can see how people get so sucked into their work as a physician that they don't make time for a family or friends. I'm not saying that it's hard to have a family and be a physician, but I can see how people can lose sight of things outside of work. I've also taken care of enough patients who died young, and enough patients who died alone, to know that, no matter how much I value my work as a physician, family comes first. If I have to work less to spend enough time with my family and have enough time for "self care," then that's what I will do.

 

[mwsapphire]

Plenty of women work 20-30 hrs/week so they can have lots of time for mothering/homemaking responsibilities. They often have a husband who works full time.

 

[Candidate2017]

do sleep/psych!!

Why do sleep/psych when you can do psych AND sleep?

 

[Frazier]

EM, Psych, urgent care, addiction, locums... fields which can tend to have low overhead.

 

[MavFab]

For Kaiser outpatient MSK in LA, starting salary is around 220k with full benefits. You cap out at 280k if you make partner year 4. Get ready to bend over backwards at the altar of patient satisfaction though. Job is more like customer service.

Yes, the 1099 SAR jobs are available for new grads. I’d say it’s relatively new and more residents are finding out about it. Residents don’t get much exposure to it in residency though because it’s not as glamorous as sticking placebo needles in people and obsessing over ultrasound

The thing with this kind of gig is you are a 1099 employee, so no benefits. It's still obviously great compensation, but health insurance, malpractice, maintaining board certification, etc. will eat into your income. Regardless, these opportunities have been under the radar for awhile and seem to be getting more popular. Another great thing about it is the huge patient population that can benefit, so it isn't likely to become saturated (great for people who want to practice in saturated cities).

 

[sloh]

The thing with this kind of gig is you are a 1099 employee, so no benefits. It's still obviously great compensation, but health insurance, malpractice, maintaining board certification, etc. will eat into your income. Regardless, these opportunities have been under the radar for awhile and seem to be getting more popular. Another great thing about it is the huge patient population that can benefit, so it isn't likely to become saturated (great for people who want to practice in saturated cities).

Agreed, and that’s something to take into account when considering the differences in compensation. I’ll also note the autonomy that comes with a 1099 job is often not appreciated until you’re an attending

 

[LunaOri]

Forensic Path. You can work locums or day rates. Some jobs go as much as $2000 per day up to 3 days a week. Others go for $120/hour up to 10 hours a day and some go by $800-1000 per case up to 3 cases a day. No responsibilities other than writing reports and sometimes court. No patient follow ups lol

Forensic path requires a full pathology residency followed by fellowship. 4years + 2 years

 

[sloh]

Forensic path requires a full pathology residency followed by fellowship. 4years + 2 years

Also, what’s the job market like?

 

[fecalith]

Also, what’s the job market like?

The job market in forensics is very good compared to other fields in pathology.

 

[fecalith]

Forensic path requires a full pathology residency followed by fellowship. 4years + 2 years

Forensics could be 3+1 or 4+1 i dont know where you are getting the 4+2 unless you attend the NYCOME where they have the two year program combined with neuro and cardiac path.

 

[calivianya]

Wanting to work two days a week doesn't mean that you necessarily hate being a physician. It just means that you value other things more/equally.

I can see how people get so sucked into their work as a physician that they don't make time for a family or friends. I'm not saying that it's hard to have a family and be a physician, but I can see how people can lose sight of things outside of work. I've also taken care of enough patients who died young, and enough patients who died alone, to know that, no matter how much I value my work as a physician, family comes first. If I have to work less to spend enough time with my family and have enough time for "self care," then that's what I will do.

I love this. I’ve taken care of a metric ton of dying people too. Most were unconscious, but of the conscious ones, I’ve literally never had anyone say they wanted to work more. I’ve heard people say they wish they’d chased their dreams, but that’s different. Most people actively regret working long hours when it actually comes down to it. I’ve seen grown men break down in tears over missing all their kids‘ sports games, recitals, whatever.

It’s all fun and games thinking about working all the time until you’re 80 and realize you don’t have that great a relationship with your family because you were never there, so nobody even bothers to show up when you’re dying.

The job market in forensics is very good compared to other fields in pathology.

Yeah! We did a mandatory autopsy day with a local forensic pathologist and she was telling us that if we showed any interest at all, she’d very happily hold our hand, give us a fourth year audition, take us, and write us letters because she was so desperate for help. They really have trouble filling all the jobs in forensics according to her. She was using a lot of locums and she still had something like a 6 month wait for autopsies.

 

[Eye-eye]

Pretty common in ophtho to start working fewer and fewer days as your career goes on. I remember shadowing some retina docs before med school, and one partner (at most 60 y.o., for reference) was asking the other two how much trouble it would be for them if he were to go from 2 days a week to 2 days every other week. Not the only example of this I've seen, either.

 

[tbn0055]

If you want to be a bum you can also live in your parents basement.

If you hate the idea of being a physician so much that you would only work 2 days a week why go into it?

Being a physician is a great career, but do you not have another other goals or interests you'd like to seriously pursue? Anything you look at and wish you could do? You may not, but others do. The great thing about being a physician is that you can afford to work part-time and pursue these goals... this is something many cannot do because they literally cannot afford to do otherwise, or their employers would not allow part-time work

For example, look at Noah Kaufman. His instagram is @noahkaufmanmd . He is an EM physician who only works 6 days a month, but started one of the most competitive American ninja warrior teams in the US. He's well known and respected within the community and has competed in American Ninja Warrior like 7 times.

That's super cool in my opinion, and I think it'd be a shame if he didn't decide to do it. He can go back to working more once he's too old to compete. I plan on working 3 days per week eventually, and I will use my spare time with:
1. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu... I want to compete and a black belt one day
2. Rock climbing... I want to get good enough to climb El Cap one day
3. Film... I want to direct short films on a competitive level. I'm going to start locally and go bigger from there


I could not get to a serious competitive level on all of these if I was working a full-time schedule. I could maybe do one if I dropped the others. 2 of these are very physical, and require me to be somewhat young if I want to be competitive in them.

I still get my fix of helping people in 3 days that I would in 5.

 

[tbn0055]

Any of them that can have private practice? I'm very confused by this. If you own the practice you can work however much or little you want, especially if you're willing to 'sacrifice half your salary'. I doubt you will maintain many loyal patients enough to build a solid patient base while only practicing 2 days a week though

It's way way more complicated than this when you factor in overhead. Many people would be losing money only working 2 days a week, so it is a very valid question imo

 

[Eye-eye]

It's way way more complicated than this when you factor in overhead. Many people would be losing money only working 2 days a week, so it is a very valid question imo

It is certainly valid, but you shouldn't be losing money unless you're a solo doc. Big difference between private practice and solo. Though of course if you have partners you have to run lowering your time by them so as not to screw them over, and it could involve waiting a while to hire a new associate.

 

[odyssey2]

While doing a few shifts a month in any field is fine for a veteran attending, you’re gonna be a pretty crappy doctor regardless of whatever field you enter if you do that straight out of residency.

As one of my favorite retired surgeons used to say: “it took me five years to learn how to operate, then five years to learn when to operate, then five years to learn when not to operate.

“And then I died of old age”

 

[deleted804295]

“And then I died of old age”

We literally have 40 years minimum to practice.

Though it'll probably be 60 for me because I'll only stop when I drop.

 

[Prehealth1011]

We literally have 40 years minimum to practice.
Though it'll probably be 60 for me because I'll only stop when I drop.

Psyc?

 

[deleted804295]

Psyc?

Probably not. It's depressing

 

[Skindoc83]

Your only real options are fields that do shift work or locums. I can only think of EM and rads. No office based practice will touch you, because it’s too inconvenient. Let’s say you only work Mondays and Tuesdays. A patient of yours calls on a Wednesday wanting to be seen, for refills, wants path results, etc. Do you tell them to call back Monday when you’re back in the office? Do you ask your partners to overbook that patient on their schedule? Hiring you would make me money but the inconvenience of dealing with your patients during all of your off time would outweigh that for me

 

[ACSurgeon]

Your only real options are fields that do shift work or locums. I can only think of EM and rads. No office based practice will touch you, because it’s too inconvenient. Let’s say you only work Mondays and Tuesdays. A patient of yours calls on a Wednesday wanting to be seen, for refills, wants path results, etc. Do you tell them to call back Monday when you’re back in the office? Do you ask your partners to overbook that patient on their schedule? Hiring you would make me money but the inconvenience of dealing with your patients during all of your off time would outweigh that for me

I’m pretty sure some office based physicians job share. Two part timers cover each other etc

 

[deleted804295]

Your only real options are fields that do shift work or locums. I can only think of EM and rads. No office based practice will touch you, because it’s too inconvenient. Let’s say you only work Mondays and Tuesdays. A patient of yours calls on a Wednesday wanting to be seen, for refills, wants path results, etc. Do you tell them to call back Monday when you’re back in the office? Do you ask your partners to overbook that patient on their schedule? Hiring you would make me money but the inconvenience of dealing with your patients during all of your off time would outweigh that for me

Isn't the last part what receptionists are for? They can book on schedule when a certain physician is out of office

 

[Candidate2017]

Isn't the last part what receptionists are for? They can book on schedule when a certain physician is out of office

You don't even need a receptionist because patients can reach you by EMR patient portal (or voicemail). It's not that big of a deal to return a call and set up their appointment yourself.

 

[Candidate2017]

Let’s say you only work Mondays and Tuesdays. A patient of yours calls on a Wednesday wanting to be seen, for refills, wants path results, etc. Do you tell them to call back Monday when you’re back in the office? Do you ask your partners to overbook that patient on their schedule? Hiring you would make me money but the inconvenience of dealing with your patients during all of your off time would outweigh that for me

There are just 3 reasons for which patients contact me: scheduling, refills, acute issues/side effects.

Scheduling is not a big deal even though, depending on clinical duties/rotations, I may sometimes have just 1-2 days per week open for my psych residency clinic patients. My patients are fine with this because psych patients prefer regularly scheduled visits as opposed to PRN visits for acute issues like, for example, corneal abrasions. Checking my EMR/messages 1-2 times a day, even when I'm out of clinic is not a burden. And because they have regularly scheduled visits, they rarely run out of refills.

Acute issues are suicidality/psychosis/mania and side effects. For the former, I educate patients and their family about what to look out for and what to do (call 911). For the latter, I educate them on benign common side effects to expect when starting meds vs. rare but dangerous side effects for which to call me and/or go to the ER immediately.

I treat my residency patients as if they are my own cash patients paying me a ton of cash, meaning I return all messages/calls by end of day if it is genuinely related to patient care, no matter how minor. In return, my patients are respectful of my time, and I don't get BS calls like "my cat died" or "my BF yelled at me" like some other people do. It's counterintuitive, but the more patients feel they can trust and discuss things with you at their appointment, the less likely they are to call with BS.