Worst part of med school?

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Brain Bucket said:
Yes, yes it was. And then people attempted to answer your question.

Don't feed the trolls and your thread will remain on-topic. Probably a good idea to remove that picture too.
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Right and that was my mistake because I'm new to this site. But now that it is fixed I just don't know why people are still complaining about it. That was all.
 
jesus-facepalm.jpg

So ignore it. It's teh interwebs, don't take it personally.
 
CountryGirl92 said:
Right and that was my mistake because I'm new to this site. But now that it is fixed I just don't know why people are still complaining about it. That was all.
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We're thickening your skin. By the time your OB/GYN rotation hits, your malignant attending will throw snark your way and you'll just glare right back into her soulless eyes without a flinch. I can't answer your question, but until you get some more answers in this thread, here's a few slightly related threads that you might glean some insight from:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-is-the-absolute-worst-part-about-med-school.498995/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/least-favorite-year-of-medical-school.734539/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/thoughts-on-quitting-medical-school.857536/
 
The worst part is that you figure out how to do things after the knowledge is not really relevant anymore.
 
DermViser said:
😆You've got to be kidding.
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I went to medical school to learn how to help people through the practice of medicine. My pre-clinical years did nothing toward that end. It was another stepping stone toward my MD, but it functionally did not prepare me for any aspect of practicing medicine. The little relavent information that was picked up was largely lost in the volume of unimportant schooling or repeated ad nauseum later on when it was relavent. From my perspective, there is a purpose to pre-clinical learning, but as it was applied at my medical school (and from others at their medical schools), it failed miserably.

I hated my pre-med curriculum for the same reason. I had no problem working 40+ hours a week in the lab during the semester or 80+ during the summer or taking 20+ credits. But, spending time in a class for the sake of taking a class was torture. I assume based on your commentary that this doesn't really bother you that much. You disliked the time commitment and got exausted on your Surgery and OB/Gyn MS3 rotations. I have enjoyed my residency despite having a much much higher time and responsibility commitment than an MS3 rotation. Yes, patients ask if I ever go home. And I honestly tell them that if I didn't enjoy being there working as hard as I am, I wouldn't. Different strokes for different folks. You went into Derm. I went into Vascular Surgery. I think we both went into the fields that fit what we like and stayed away from what we don't like. I'd say thats good for both of us 🙂 and lets both be thankful that #1 both types of jobs exist and #2 we ended up in the right ones!
 
mimelim said:
I went to medical school to learn how to help people through the practice of medicine. My pre-clinical years did nothing toward that end. It was another stepping stone toward my MD, but it functionally did not prepare me for any aspect of practicing medicine. The little relavent information that was picked up was largely lost in the volume of unimportant schooling or repeated ad nauseum later on when it was relavent. From my perspective, there is a purpose to pre-clinical learning, but as it was applied at my medical school (and from others at their medical schools), it failed miserably.

I hated my pre-med curriculum for the same reason. I had no problem working 40+ hours a week in the lab during the semester or 80+ during the summer or taking 20+ credits. But, spending time in a class for the sake of taking a class was torture. I assume based on your commentary that this doesn't really bother you that much. You disliked the time commitment and got exausted on your Surgery and OB/Gyn MS3 rotations. I have enjoyed my residency despite having a much much higher time and responsibility commitment than an MS3 rotation. Yes, patients ask if I ever go home. And I honestly tell them that if I didn't enjoy being there working as hard as I am, I wouldn't. Different strokes for different folks. You went into Derm. I went into Vascular Surgery. I think we both went into the fields that fit what we like and stayed away from what we don't like. I'd say thats good for both of us 🙂 and lets both be thankful that #1 both types of jobs exist and #2 we ended up in the right ones!
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I should be fair, it wasn't the time commitment or the subject matter that made OB-Gyn and General Surgery (not including subspecialties) is exhausting. The toxic personalities that tend to inhabit OB-Gyn and Surgery in greater proportions (vs. Psych, Peds, Family Med), is what tends to make it exhausting.
 
For me it was the fear of making a personal commitment to something big in terms of time, money, and not knowing what the outcome would be. Would I match into the specialty of my choosing? Would I match at all? Would I be happy with the outcome. The uncertainty but yet required lifestyle change was the hardest part

I am curious about the vascular surgeon who felt that anatomy, cardiophys, micro anatomy, were a waste of time and not relevant to his or her practice? Seems shocking to me but I cannot discount their opinion, just very very surprised.

As for me, the preclinical years are mostly quite relevant. I use my neuroanatomy, anatomy, cardio phys, pulmonary phys, etc nearly every shift as an emergency physician. Even biochem becomes rather relevant when we talk about cyanide toxicity, carbon monoxide poisoning, Tylenol overdoses, infiltration of desiccant medications, etc.

For me in my practice and my specialty the preclinical classes are highly relevant.

Anyway, my answer to te OP is the uncertainty weighing against the effort in lifestyle change. If there is uncertainty but I don't have to sacrifice anything or minimally it's not a big deal.
 
So far, Step 1 has been the worst part. MS1-MS2 were annoying for various reasons, most already stated in this thread. But then pre-clinical culminates in the hell that is studying for boards. I'm sure MS3 will pose its own challenges, and maybe I'll have a different answer in a few months (hopefully not!)
 
I've heard many stories now about toxic OB-GYN rotations and residencies... Just curious---why does OB-GYN attract such toxicity? Is it something about OB-GYN?
 
Step 1 prep. It's probably not bad if you're aiming for average but for those of us that are gunning of competitive specialities it can be hell on earth.

It was probably the worst six weeks of my life, not kidding or exaggerating.
 
Sikkunt said:
had a toxic OBGYN attending
that **** sucked

she would only ask me questions out of the whole group and keep going until i got it wrong and then drop lines like this:
"if you spent more time studying and less time working out you would have known the answer"
"you should quit med school and be a personal trainer" etc etc.

it wasn't just me, a classmate of mine got the same treatment too
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Wow, that's insane. That's extremely unprofessional, and discriminatory. I guess I'm gonna have to find some baggy clothes for certain rotations (if I can still manage to find time to hit the gym in medical school...). Did this doc have a problem with female students who put in serious elliptical time? Also, what's with everyone saying OB/GYN is so insufferable? I've heard countless horror stories from that specialty in particular. How could one specialty somehow accumulate so many insufferable personalities?
 
alpinism said:
Sleep-deprived, moody, catty, bitter women.
Click to expand...

Here's a crazy OB/GYN story full of these kinds of attendings/residents:

Dr. Pauline Chen recently wrote an interesting, if not slightly sterile,article about the prevalence of bullying in medical school. A survey published by JAMA in 1990 suggested that 85% of medical students had experienced some kind of mistreatment during their third year of training, and a quarter of the respondents said that they would have chosen a different profession had they known in advance about the extent of mistreatment they would experience.

One medical school (UCLA) took these sobering statistics to heart and implemented an anti-bullying program of sorts. Thirteen years after it was initiated, more than half of all medical students still said that they had been intimidated or physically or verbally harassed.

I recently wrote a fairly tongue-in-cheek blog post about why doctors are jerks. But I didn’t really delve into the more sinister side of the bullying culture. Some of my experiences in medical training were soul-suckingly bad, and just to add some flavor to Dr. Chen’s analysis, let me share some real-life anecdotes.

My worst experiences in medical training occurred during Ob/Gyn rotations. I don’t know if this has been the experience of other medical students, or if my gender had anything to do with it, but I spent time with a group of female residents who were so toxic to med students that the department chairman actually warned us about them ahead of time in a private meeting. He let us know that these residents had a history of “hazing” medical students, particularly females. I had always been a very conscientious and hard working student, so I presumed that they wouldn’t have much to criticize. My plan was to work hard, keep my head down, and get out unscathed. Unfortunately, nothing went as planned.

The tone was set for me the first day when I witnessed a female, Asian anesthesia resident slap a pregnant Hispanic woman who was in labor. The woman was frightened and spoke no English and was beginning to hyperventilate from pain. The resident was trying to put in an epidural anesthetic and the woman was moving around too much for her to get the needle safely into position. So instead of calling for a translator, the resident started raising her voice, eventually screaming at the woman to calm down. The woman was crying uncontrollably, so the resident slapped her, and told her that she was “going to lose her baby” if she didn’t shut up. The husband was also terrified and could understand some English. He translated to his wife that she was going to lose the baby and started begging her to be calm. I stood in the doorway with my mouth open. The resident told me to get the f-out of there as she threw her gloves at me.

I suppose the humiliation of being caught abusing a patient was enough to channel her hate towards me, so she told the Ob/Gyn residents that I was an incompetent medical student. For the rest of the month I was targeted by the hazing team, and like a pack of wolves they descended, bound to make my every moment a living hell. During the delivery of my first baby (a touching experience that moved me to tears), the new mom experienced a small tear during the birthing process. The residents blamed it on me, and convinced me that I had personally caused her harm by not “supporting her perineum” correctly. I was mortified and fell for the lie – hook, line, and sinker.

When a woman went into labor it was customary for the residents to page the medical student on call and have him or her assist with the vaginal birth or c-section. My peers were paged in a timely manner, while I was either paged at random times or paged to the wrong parts of the hospital so that I appeared to be late to several deliveries (especially when a senior physician evaluator was present to witness it). Once I caught on to this I had to remain awake 24/7 at the nursing station (rather than the more secluded med student lounge) so that I could follow visual cues regarding where and when to assist. After several shifts without sleep the residents began locking the chairs in their lounge so that I would have no where to sit or rest, but would be forced to remain standing “on guard” all night.

One page was particularly painful at the time (but almost laughable in retrospect). A resident took it upon herself to page me just to tell me some important news: I was the worst medical student in the history of the program.

Of course, my final resident evaluation was dripping with venom. I recall statements such as, “Valerie suffers from narcolepsy,” and “she is uniformly late and is never prepared… she doesn’t answers her emergency pages… she occupies valuable space at the nursing station instead of remaining in the medical student on-call room… her performance in deliveries borders on dangerous.” And on it went. I wish I had the maturity to take all of that in stride at the time and see that these women were nuts, and it had nothing to do with me personally. But I was too close to it then, and I bore the pain with a stiff upper lip.

I still think about that poor patient who was slapped, and I kick myself for not standing up to the resident who hit her. I guess I was in such shock that I didn’t know what to do. But living through this abuse helped me to become a stronger patient advocate during my residency years. Just two years after my brush with the Ob/Gyn residents, I gained a reputation for being the intern you never f-with. I know I saved the lives of some who were slipping through the cracks of the system, and I was willing to call in the hospital ethics committee if I had to. Yes, that pregnant woman’s suffering was not totally in vain – because she helped me to find my own cojones. And for that, I will always be grateful.

SOURCE: http://getbetterhealth.com/new-york...about-bullying-in-medical-training/2012.08.10
 
pyrrion89 said:
Here's a crazy OB/GYN story full of these kinds of attendings/residents:

Dr. Pauline Chen recently wrote an interesting, if not slightly sterile,article about the prevalence of bullying in medical school. A survey published by JAMA in 1990 suggested that 85% of medical students had experienced some kind of mistreatment during their third year of training, and a quarter of the respondents said that they would have chosen a different profession had they known in advance about the extent of mistreatment they would experience.

One medical school (UCLA) took these sobering statistics to heart and implemented an anti-bullying program of sorts. Thirteen years after it was initiated, more than half of all medical students still said that they had been intimidated or physically or verbally harassed.

I recently wrote a fairly tongue-in-cheek blog post about why doctors are jerks. But I didn’t really delve into the more sinister side of the bullying culture. Some of my experiences in medical training were soul-suckingly bad, and just to add some flavor to Dr. Chen’s analysis, let me share some real-life anecdotes.

My worst experiences in medical training occurred during Ob/Gyn rotations. I don’t know if this has been the experience of other medical students, or if my gender had anything to do with it, but I spent time with a group of female residents who were so toxic to med students that the department chairman actually warned us about them ahead of time in a private meeting. He let us know that these residents had a history of “hazing” medical students, particularly females. I had always been a very conscientious and hard working student, so I presumed that they wouldn’t have much to criticize. My plan was to work hard, keep my head down, and get out unscathed. Unfortunately, nothing went as planned.

The tone was set for me the first day when I witnessed a female, Asian anesthesia resident slap a pregnant Hispanic woman who was in labor. The woman was frightened and spoke no English and was beginning to hyperventilate from pain. The resident was trying to put in an epidural anesthetic and the woman was moving around too much for her to get the needle safely into position. So instead of calling for a translator, the resident started raising her voice, eventually screaming at the woman to calm down. The woman was crying uncontrollably, so the resident slapped her, and told her that she was “going to lose her baby” if she didn’t shut up. The husband was also terrified and could understand some English. He translated to his wife that she was going to lose the baby and started begging her to be calm. I stood in the doorway with my mouth open. The resident told me to get the f-out of there as she threw her gloves at me.

I suppose the humiliation of being caught abusing a patient was enough to channel her hate towards me, so she told the Ob/Gyn residents that I was an incompetent medical student. For the rest of the month I was targeted by the hazing team, and like a pack of wolves they descended, bound to make my every moment a living hell. During the delivery of my first baby (a touching experience that moved me to tears), the new mom experienced a small tear during the birthing process. The residents blamed it on me, and convinced me that I had personally caused her harm by not “supporting her perineum” correctly. I was mortified and fell for the lie – hook, line, and sinker.

When a woman went into labor it was customary for the residents to page the medical student on call and have him or her assist with the vaginal birth or c-section. My peers were paged in a timely manner, while I was either paged at random times or paged to the wrong parts of the hospital so that I appeared to be late to several deliveries (especially when a senior physician evaluator was present to witness it). Once I caught on to this I had to remain awake 24/7 at the nursing station (rather than the more secluded med student lounge) so that I could follow visual cues regarding where and when to assist. After several shifts without sleep the residents began locking the chairs in their lounge so that I would have no where to sit or rest, but would be forced to remain standing “on guard” all night.

One page was particularly painful at the time (but almost laughable in retrospect). A resident took it upon herself to page me just to tell me some important news: I was the worst medical student in the history of the program.

Of course, my final resident evaluation was dripping with venom. I recall statements such as, “Valerie suffers from narcolepsy,” and “she is uniformly late and is never prepared… she doesn’t answers her emergency pages… she occupies valuable space at the nursing station instead of remaining in the medical student on-call room… her performance in deliveries borders on dangerous.” And on it went. I wish I had the maturity to take all of that in stride at the time and see that these women were nuts, and it had nothing to do with me personally. But I was too close to it then, and I bore the pain with a stiff upper lip.

I still think about that poor patient who was slapped, and I kick myself for not standing up to the resident who hit her. I guess I was in such shock that I didn’t know what to do. But living through this abuse helped me to become a stronger patient advocate during my residency years. Just two years after my brush with the Ob/Gyn residents, I gained a reputation for being the intern you never f-with. I know I saved the lives of some who were slipping through the cracks of the system, and I was willing to call in the hospital ethics committee if I had to. Yes, that pregnant woman’s suffering was not totally in vain – because she helped me to find my own cojones. And for that, I will always be grateful.

SOURCE: http://getbetterhealth.com/new-york...about-bullying-in-medical-training/2012.08.10
Click to expand...
And now you know why students are fighting for the specialties that you are purposefully not exposed to during MS-3. Waiting for the SDN bully squad to say what a pansy that student was... I am curious what the residents in the SDN OB-Gyn thread would say about this.
 
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DermViser said:
And now you know why students are fighting for the specialties that you are purposefully not exposed to during MS-3. Waiting for the SDN bully squad to say what a pansy that student was... I am curious what the residents in the SDN OB-Gyn thread would say about this.
Click to expand...

They'd get torn to shreds on these forums and they know it. There's no excuse for treating someone poorly, hence why they do it through cloak-and-dagger methods like those above.
 
Rik1111 said:
They'd get torn to shreds on these forums and they know it. There's no excuse for treating someone poorly, hence why they do it through cloak-and-dagger methods like those above.
Click to expand...

MS-3 truly is a life changing experience, there are certain rotations that are notorious for mistreating medical students, OB-Gyn and General Surgery. Surgeons will tell you what you're doing wrong to your face and want you to correct. OB-Gyns will be passive aggressive about it (nice to your face, and destroy you on an evaluation.)
The level of sick hazing they do to their residents is unreal.
 
DermViser said:
MS-3 truly is a life changing experience, there are certain rotations that are notorious for mistreating medical students, OB-Gyn and General Surgery. Surgeons will tell you what you're doing wrong to your face and want you to correct. OB-Gyns will be passive aggressive about it (nice to your face, and destroy you on an evaluation.)
The level of sick hazing they do to their residents is unreal.
Click to expand...

I must say that from my time scribing in EM, almost nobody is a jerk here. I've asked the docs, and they immediately know what I mean. They state that much of the reason they chose this specialty is the culture of comradery. I must say that this aspect of it is alluring. I feel spoiled, and I'm more than a bit nervous about spending time with less happy specialties. :depressed:
 
DermViser said:
MS-3 truly is a life changing experience, there are certain rotations that are notorious for mistreating medical students, OB-Gyn and General Surgery. Surgeons will tell you what you're doing wrong to your face and want you to correct. OB-Gyns will be passive aggressive about it (nice to your face, and destroy you on an evaluation.)
Click to expand...

I have Surgery and Ob/Gyn back to back next spring...I'll probably be curled in the fetal position come next May :sour:
 
Rik1111 said:
I must say that from my time scribing in EM, almost nobody is a jerk here. I've asked the docs, and they immediately know what I mean. They state that much of the reason they chose this specialty is the culture of comradery. I must say that this aspect of it is alluring. I feel spoiled, and I'm more than a bit nervous about spending time with less happy specialties. :depressed:
Click to expand...

Other fields in which residents tend to be nicer: Radiology, Ophtho, Anesthesiology, Dermatology, PM&R, Psych, Peds, Path, Family Medicine

Nicer Surgical Subspecialties: ENT, Urology, Ortho
 
Ismet said:
I have Surgery and Ob/Gyn back to back next spring...I'll probably be curled in the fetal position come next May :sour:
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I would treat it as a job. Usually OB-Gyn and General Surgery are 8 week rotations each. Treat it as a job which you focus on while you're there for a temporary bit of time and just have very hard skin and let things roll of your back. Do that and crush the shelf and always remember, they can't stop the clock.
 
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Ismet said:
I have Surgery and Ob/Gyn back to back next spring...I'll probably be curled in the fetal position come next May :sour:
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Don't fret too much, hours will suck but how you're treated by staff is variable. I was treated pretty well on surgery and ob. Pediatrics had the most passive-aggressive residents at my institution.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Mostly. I am a guy myself so maybe that had something to don with it.
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Happens when you put an entire bunch of women in a room in a very stressful situation who are sleepy, tired, and overworked. If you're a guy, you might be even a bigger target.
 
When my friend was off service on OB during FM residency they wrote on his eval that he was pretentious, and used his looks to "control the room and patients" and in the future he should consider modeling instead of medicine. He invited me to rounds where he read it to everyone.

Same OB department who I've seen leave a lap in a patient before closing and was warned by the Nurse that the count was off. The nurse was told to "stfu" and patient closed up.
 
NontradCA said:
When my friend was off service on OB during FM residency they wrote on his eval that he was pretentious, and used his looks to "control the room and patients" and in the future he should consider modeling instead of medicine. He invited me to rounds where he read it to everyone.

Same OB department who I've seen leave a lap in a patient before closing and was warned by the Nurse that the count was off. The nurse was told to "stfu" and patient closed up.
Click to expand...

Yes, definite tension between OB-Gyn and Family Medicine when it comes to doing deliveries, usually with FM residents rotating with OB-Gyn. Most OB-Gyns believe that delivering babies is their turf and theirs alone.
 
NontradCA said:
When my friend was off service on OB during FM residency they wrote on his eval that he was pretentious, and used his looks to "control the room and patients" and in the future he should consider modeling instead of medicine. He invited me to rounds where he read it to everyone.
Click to expand...

Someone is mad that they aren't attractive enough to land a stud. 🙄
 
DermViser said:
Yes, definite tension between OB-Gyn and Family Medicine when it comes to doing deliveries, usually with FM residents rotating with OB-Gyn. Most OB-Gyns believe that delivering babies is their turf and theirs alone.
Click to expand...
Both of them can keep that job, I'm good.
 
NontradCA said:
When my friend was off service on OB during FM residency they wrote on his eval that he was pretentious, and used his looks to "control the room and patients" and in the future he should consider modeling instead of medicine. He invited me to rounds where he read it to everyone.
Click to expand...
I know that feel. lol jk

NontradCA said:
Same OB department who I've seen leave a lap in a patient before closing and was warned by the Nurse that the count was off. The nurse was told to "stfu" and patient closed up.
Click to expand...
Damn, that sounds crazy, bro. I wish a ______ would.
 
The Buff OP said:
Damn, that sounds crazy, bro. I wish a ______ would.
Click to expand...
Id get used to it. In the hierarchy, if you challenge those above you that will generally be the response you'll get, even if their wrong.

That was in the military/DOD, but I doubt it's different in the civilian workplace. In the military you also see people pull rank over medical decisions as well.

I recall one incident where a midwife wanted a spinal for a patient that was counter indicated, and saying something to the effect of "I am a commander and you're a lieutenant blah blah". It was uncomfortable and childish.
 
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WhippleWhileWeWork said:
You humble bragging SOB, you're gonna be old, gray, and withered by the time you get to MS3, aren't you?
Click to expand...
If my few 80+ hr/week semesters in college taught me anything, I'll be a stick haha. I'm like a balloon. If I work out steadily for a few months and eat right, I'm in good shape. If I let work take over, I drop down to one meal a day and embody the classic "skinny fat." I'll be pretty old by MS3, so maybe the "skinny" part will be gone too... :laugh:
 
La Presse said:
Slowing pushing OB-GYN to the bottom of my list....
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Someone has to break the cycle. Get in there. A martyr for the cause.

It was never on my list so this advice is invalid for me.
 
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WhippleWhileWeWork said:
Someone has to break the cycle. Get in there, a martyr for the cause.

It was never on my list so this advice is invalid for me.
Click to expand...
Don't worry. I'm gonna be the guy who goes into that field and straighten all them women out. I know what's really bothering them. Plus I'm going DO, so I'm gonna be working that back in more than one way.


notsrs
 
tiedyeddog said:
Don't fret too much, hours will suck but how you're treated by staff is variable. I was treated pretty well on surgery and ob. Pediatrics had the most passive-aggressive residents at my institution.
Click to expand...

I've heard very mixed reviews about ob at my school. A lot of people hate it, some like it, just luck of the draw for which service you're on and the residents at the time, which I'm sure can be said about most specialties, but ob definitely sticks out when I talk to upperclassmen. I haven't heard anything bad about surgery except the hours, which is understandable. I'm hoping peds goes well, as that's currently what I want to go into. I don't deal well with passive-aggressive people. 😛
 
Ismet said:
I've heard very mixed reviews about ob at my school. A lot of people hate it, some like it, just luck of the draw for which service you're on and the residents at the time, which I'm sure can be said about most specialties, but ob definitely sticks out when I talk to upperclassmen. I haven't heard anything bad about surgery except the hours, which is understandable. I'm hoping peds goes well, as that's currently what I want to go into. I don't deal well with passive-aggressive people. 😛
Click to expand...
You're a girl and make sure they know you want to go into peds and you'll be fine.
 
Probably getting into it.
 
Sikkunt said:
had a toxic OBGYN attending
that **** sucked

she would only ask me questions out of the whole group and keep going until i got it wrong and then drop lines like this:
"if you spent more time studying and less time working out you would have known the answer"
"you should quit med school and be a personal trainer" etc etc.

it wasn't just me, a classmate of mine got the same treatment too
Click to expand...
I would be the main target for such comments. lolz
 
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