Worth it to apply with a MCAT subsection <10th%?

[Thoroughbred_Med]

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Hey guys,

Without getting into my MCAT story, does anyone have experience or advice when it comes to applying to schools that are target for your MCAT but low in one subsection?

I got my MCAT back last week and got a 510 (129,123,130,128). CARS hurts. I have a list of target MD schools I want to apply to with medians ranging from 505-513 but mostly all of them have CARS at 125 for 10th% acceptance.
For background, I've taken the MCAT twice before: 508 (126,124,129,129) and 27 (9/9/9). I've poured blood, sweat, and tears into the MCAT over the last three years, and I will be a re-applicant next cycle. My composite increased each time but my verbal got progressively worse (sciences progressively better.) Perhaps committees can see all my scores? My original 9 in verbal was the best percentile wise (67th%).

Can anyone provide insight on how to apply with this poor CARS subsection? Basically I'm looking to find out if there are any hard screens that won't get my app looked at with because of my poor CARS section, even if my MCAT matches a school's median.

Thank you!

EDIT: GPA is 3.87 for reference

 

[chappikachu]

126+123+130+128=507?

 

[infectiousdisease101]

Can someone tell me the mcat section score order?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

C/P, CARS, B/B, P/S

 

[theonlytycrane]

Nothing you can really do except apply to a lot of places. Are you opposed to DO?

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

126+123+130+128=507?

Sorry! Typo. I got a 129 in C/P. Fixed initial post. Thank you!


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[Thoroughbred_Med]

Nothing you can really do except apply to a lot of places. Are you opposed to DO?

Not wholly opposed. It is my last ditch effort tho tbh. My goals and interests are in academic medicine and I want to research to be a major part of my career. This is a major uphill battle with DO from what I've read.
My application is research heavy and I'm set on applying to low-tier MD/PhD. Also MD and DO of course.


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[bahdahboom]

Not wholly opposed. It is my last ditch effort tho tbh. My goals and interests are in academic medicine and I want to research to be a major part of my career. This is a major uphill battle with DO from what I've read.
My application is research heavy and I'm set on applying to low-tier MD/PhD. Also MD and DO of course.


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Wow you have uh...high standards. you do know MD/phD is typically harder to get into even with very high stats. And your MCAT is not...very high. Many MD schools Deem it necessary to have at least a 125 in each section. A 125 Shows you’re at least average in the material. What I would do is skip out on the MD PhD program, head for lower tier MD programs and a high tier DO.

 

[Hau5MD]

Not wholly opposed. It is my last ditch effort tho tbh. My goals and interests are in academic medicine and I want to research to be a major part of my career. This is a major uphill battle with DO from what I've read.
My application is research heavy and I'm set on applying to low-tier MD/PhD. Also MD and DO of course.


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From my understanding, schools tend to look at the most recent MCAT scores and don't average subscores. Even so, they definitely do look at past MCAT scores and will ask questions about lower subscores (has happened to me at almost every single interview).

On average, MD-PhD remains extremely competitive with the average GPA being high 3.8 and MCAT being somewhere between 515-518 (correct me if I'm wrong). Even with your high GPA and research experience, it will be a uphill struggle unless you have some truly standout research experiences like multiple first author nature/science papers while being a Oxford scholar. If you are still sure that MD-PhD is your calling, apply realistically. But do also apply to a healthy list of MD schools and a broad number of DO schools.

 

[MDPedigree]

Are you opposed to taking the exam a 4th time? I think if you can get the cars to a 125 and maintain the other ones you would be in very good shape.

 

[Isoval]

I have had some success this cycle with one section below 125 (psychology, 124); my overall is close to your highest overall. As of writing, I have attended three interviews (2 MD, 1 DO through TMDSAS).

I am not, however, applying to MD/PhD programs.

 

[calivianya]

At several schools I've applied to, my MCAT is <10th in C/P and >90th in CARS.

I applied anyway. We'll see what happens!

 

[mellie0]

OP, you can always apply MD and add the PhD portion afterwards, as an M1. (Not sure how it works at DO schools.)

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

Wow you have uh...high standards. you do know MD/phD is typically harder to get into even with very high stats. And your MCAT is not...very high. Many MD schools Deem it necessary to have at least a 125 in each section. A 125 Shows you’re at least average in the material. What I would do is skip out on the MD PhD program, head for lower tier MD programs and a high tier DO.

Thx. Really don't think I have high standards though. Just average.


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[Thoroughbred_Med]

Are you opposed to taking the exam a 4th time? I think if you can get the cars to a 125 and maintain the other ones you would be in very good shape.

Yeah I am opposed to taking it a fourth time. I don't want to mess with my other sections. I nearly hit my FL2 score.
Thanks for the suggestion though. I have thought about it.


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[Thoroughbred_Med]

OP, you can always apply MD and add the PhD portion afterwards, as an M1. (Not sure how it works at DO schools.)

Yeah! I've definitely been keeping this in mind! A suitable alternative for sure.


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[TracingFruits]

Thx. Really don't think I have high standards though. Just average.

I don't know your research experience, but MD/Ph.D. programs, especially MSTPs, are looking at highly qualified applicants with MCAT scores in the range of 515+ as a previous poster has stated. My point being, unless you have stellar research experience(multiple pubs), I fear you will not be accepted to an MSTP program. In the case you do have great research experience, you're still facing an uphill battle, as others will have equally good resumes, with higher balanced scores.

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

I don't know your research experience, but MD/Ph.D. programs, especially MSTPs, are looking at highly qualified applicants with MCAT scores in the range of 515+ as a previous poster has stated. My point being, unless you have stellar research experience(multiple pubs), I fear you will not be accepted to an MSTP program. In the case you do have great research experience, you're still facing an uphill battle, as others will have equally good resumes, with higher balanced scores.

Research experience noted in this similar thread: Low CARS for MD/PhD?




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[Thoroughbred_Med]

@Goro @gyngyn @LizzyM any advice on how not to waste money when applying with this situation?


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[LizzyM]

@Goro @gyngyn @LizzyM any advice on how not to waste money when applying with this situation?


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I've got no advice... this is far less than we see at my school (top 20). If you can get into a DO and do well, be happy. You can always get involved in research in residency and maybe do a fellowship that includes a research component and go from there in your research career. You don't need a PhD to do research if you have the MD or DO. (I know a guy IRL who took this path... later published in Science. Sweet!)

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

I've got no advice... this is far less than we see at my school (top 20). If you can get into a DO and do well, be happy. You can always get involved in research in residency and maybe do a fellowship that includes a research component and go from there in your research career. You don't need a PhD to do research if you have the MD or DO. (I know a guy IRL who took this path... later published in Science. Sweet!)

10-4 thanks for your input!


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[Goro]

Not wholly opposed. It is my last ditch effort tho tbh. My goals and interests are in academic medicine and I want to research to be a major part of my career. This is a major uphill battle with DO from what I've read.
My application is research heavy and I'm set on applying to low-tier MD/PhD. Also MD and DO of course.
e

MD/PhD will be a no-go.

You can do academic medicine as a DO. See these people:
http://www.uchospitals.edu/physicians/kathleen-mullane.html

http://www.lasvegasemr.com/faculty.html

https://findadoctor.spauldingrehab.org/Details/16?index=1&lastName=zafonte

https://www.rivermendhealth.com/scientific-advisory-board-david-baron.html

 

[Goro]

@Goro @gyngyn @LizzyM any advice on how not to waste money when applying with this situation?


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Invest in MSAR Online and target schools where your scores are closest to the 50th %ile, even the CARS. IF you live in a lucky state, that will help. Pay very careful attention to the acceptance information tables.

 

[Lucca]

can still be competitive for MD with a 510. If you want to go the research path, MD/PhD would be really tough (average accepted MCAT is 514, average GPA 3.8 -- both much higher at the MSTPs and higher ranked programs). BUT like others have said you dont *need* the PhD to do research. You could do a research year in medical school, apply to PSTP residencies or research pathways, do a postdoc after/during residency in your field, and later apply for loan forgiveness for researchers. Many, many ways to do research.

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

MD/PhD will be a no-go.

You can do academic medicine as a DO. See these people:
http://www.uchospitals.edu/physicians/kathleen-mullane.html

http://www.lasvegasemr.com/faculty.html

https://findadoctor.spauldingrehab.org/Details/16?index=1&lastName=zafonte

https://www.rivermendhealth.com/scientific-advisory-board-david-baron.html

Just flat out no go, not a shot at low-mid tier MD/PhD? I'm looking at UAB specifically and their MCAT average is a 507. Same for quite a number of other schools for MD/PhD.
Not trying to qualify myself but I feel that my research experience and gpa might make up for the MCAT. 4000+ hrs in cancer bio and parasitology (separate labs), 3rd author publication this year in Cell Reports, multiple posters, abstracts, and conferences. And a couple manuscripts in prep.

Regardless of the MD/PhD discussion, do you have any advice for my original post?


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[Lucca]

Just flat out no go, not a shot at low-mid tier MD/PhD? I'm looking at UAB specifically and their MCAT average is a 507. Same for quite a number of other schools for MD/PhD.
Not trying to qualify myself but I feel that my research experience and gpa might make up for the MCAT. 4000+ hrs in cancer bio and parasitology (separate labs), 3rd author publication this year in Cell Reports, multiple posters, abstracts, and conferences. And a couple manuscripts in prep.

Regardless of the MD/PhD discussion, do you have any advice for my original post?


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MD/PhD is possible, but tough. I recommend programs like UAB, Iowa, UTHSCA, UIUC, UIC.

 

[Goro]

Just flat out no go, not a shot at low-mid tier MD/PhD? I'm looking at UAB specifically and their MCAT average is a 507. Same for quite a number of other schools for MD/PhD.
Not trying to qualify myself but I feel that my research experience and gpa might make up for the MCAT. 4000+ hrs in cancer bio and parasitology (separate labs), 3rd author publication this year in Cell Reports, multiple posters, abstracts, and conferences. And a couple manuscripts in prep.

Regardless of the MD/PhD discussion, do you have any advice for my original post?


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Already given; see above.

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

Already given; see above.

Missed it. Thank you! Wish MSAR included Md/PhD metrics though. It's my understanding the bar is higher.


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[Lucca]

Missed it. Thank you! Wish MSAR included Md/PhD metrics though. It's my understanding the bar is higher.


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u can find most program stats on their respective websites. to give you a rough idea:

some MD/PhD programs have good reputations / full funding /plenty of research resources but also don't select so heavily for stats. Those are the ones you should be aiming for.

some MD/PhD programs are in desirable locations and have comparable research/reputation to those in the first category but select more heavily for stats, likely because of their location or association with some much more prestigious or niche research institute (McGovern MD/PhD being assoc. with MD Anderson, for example, Rutgers and Princeton, Oregon HSC, etc).

MSTPs (fully NIH funded MD/PhD programs) tend to be much, much more competitive. These are the ones where anyone below a 515 will likely not have much luck unless they are bringing something very impressive to the table. Averages are closer to 3.9/518. The lowest MCAT matriculating to Hopkins MSTP this year is 521. The lowest. MSTPs like Iowa are outliers in that they have the MSTP designation but much lower average stats (check it out, I think Iowa MSTP average MCAT is around 508).

Over at the P/S forum there is a simple guideline for how competitive you are for MD/PhD: score 2/3 Good or better in the following categories:

GPA/Research/MCAT

GPA: >3.4 OK, >3.6 good, >3.8 excellent
MCAT: >510 OK, >514 Good, >518 excellent
Research: no hard guidelines, but have at least 1 year of research XP before applying.

 

[chinesedude]

CARS is pretty important. I'd personally recommend a retake or applying very broadly, including DO.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

@Thoroughbred_Med You may also want to look into PCOM's DO/PhD program as a solid option if you are really dead set on getting a PhD.

 

[BombsAway]

To your original question, yes, still worth it! I applied to one of my reach/dream schools with my total mcat and 2 subsections below their 10th %iles (by a lot!!) and got an interview.

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

@Thoroughbred_Med You may also want to look into PCOM's DO/PhD program as a solid option if you are really dead set on getting a PhD.

Yep! Looked into PCOM's as well as MSUCOM's. Honestly not impressed with PCOM's partner institution though, very little funding. Definitely stoked to apply to MSUCOM DO/PhD!