Would a misdemeanor mean you can’t do 3rd/4th year rotations?

[lionlavaface]

If someone were to be soon convicted of a petty theft misdemeanor within the next few months but the background check for the hospitals (for 3rd/4th year rotations) was in February, this would not be enough time to get the case sealed and expunged, as it typically takes 5-8 months to be expunged. I’m wondering if the hospital automatically will not allow you because it will still show up in background checks because it hasn’t been sealed and expunged yet. Will they have any type of lee way or allow you to explain? Or will it automatically be that you are now allowed to continue third year rotations.

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[SpoiledMilk]

Does student affairs know?

IMO

If not, then priority is whether they will remain a student at this point. Fess up to student affairs if they have not done so and beg for mercy. At this point, if they have not disclose to student affairs and they have been arrested, booked and/or is awaiting trial, then likely their med career is over.

Vorpious de liporius octo

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I can't imagine an administration willfully allowing a student to proceed to rotations, much less apply to residency programs and tarnish that school's reputation with a theft conviction that occurred as a medical student. I get having a blemish on one's record prior to medical school prior to a fully developed pre-frontal cortex, but jesus christ I can't imagine doing something that dumb with so much to lose.

 

[mrbreakfast]

I'm not aware of a state that allows expungement of any crime within 12 months - if not much longer - from its occurrence. This policy is designed to prevent specifically what this hypothetical student is trying to do (hide a recent conviction).

Petty theft is generally considered a crime of moral turpitude and would likely be grounds for dismissal from medical school. If for some reason this were not discovered on a background check, this hypothetical student would then potentially have to perjure themselves during their medical license application, if not before. Given that the student is ultimately applying for medical licensure - a government-appointed privilege - for which this conviction may likely otherwise make them ineligible, it is also possible an expungement would not be approved.

As other posters have stated: the chances of this student being able to complete medical school are probably higher if they admit this crime to student affairs than if they don't. But this student should seek the advice of a lawyer, and should be prepared for the possibility of expulsion.

In terms of leeway or explanation: good luck. A medical student convicted of theft that occurred in medical school is very unlikely to get any pity.

 

[operaman]

Most schools have some language in their handbook that any such encounters with law enforcement must be reported to the school immediately. I can’t imagine any way that you could swing this that doesn’t end in expulsion or cause major problems with licensure. Even if you graduate and the school finds out later you lied/failed to report, they could even rescind your degree. It’s unusual but not unheard of, and it wouldn’t be hard to imagine a residency program calling your school when this shows up on some VA background check and they ask why it wasn’t reported on your MSPE.

Best bet is to come clean and beg for mercy. I don’t know the circumstances, but disclosure is likely the only viable way to save your career. You might be surprised at how much leeway they give you if you’re honest. I’ve seen schools work with students facing far more serious charges, especially if the circumstances are such that it would ultimately get expunged.

Disclosure may allow your school to support you, and disclosure means any residency program that takes you would do so knowing the story and therefore be willing to help navigate whatever hurdles your record might create.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I am not certain that this would or would not result in expulsion, or if it would exclude you from rotations. It likely depends on each hospital's policies RE background checks. If your school has a required rotation at a VA hospital for example, that likely complicates things significantly.

Get a lawyer if you haven't already, and then quickly talk to your school to figure out your options. For example, if you need to wait and get the conviction expunged before you can rotate, then maybe they can let you do a research year. Obviously try to get the case dismissed if that is possible.

And above all else, don't do anything like this again. Schools might (MIGHT) be able to look past one moment of profound poor judgement, but if this happens a second time you will for sure end your career.

 

[Dral]

Agree with others. It's an unfortunate situation, but it's better to disclose now and deal with the consequences than to try to keep hiding it. Things only get tougher as you go along (residency licensure, then state licensure).

 

[Goro]

1. We just didn't hand back very very carefully.

2. Get a good lawyer.

3. Assuming that you do not get expelled, do not **** up again. I believe at my school, you would be expelled.

 

[Zulli]

Very, very important to obtain counsel and if finances are an issue request appointment of the Public Defender. There is a reluctance by many to be represented by the Public Defender's office, yet these lawyers are often the most knowledgeable defense counsel in the courtroom about how a misdemeanor theft will likely be resolved, the likelihood of success at trial, and the judge's peccadillos. Post Covid, most petty theft charges - particularly retail theft charges - are dismissed at trial as the complaining witness fails to appear.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Theft is a conscious decision and seriously poor judgement. I have had students denied attendance on clinical rotations for an underage drinking conviction. There is a lot on the line with your school, graduation, rotations, and licensure. Since you can't know what will crop up in the future, best to get legal counsel, work with your school, and be prepared to show how you have matured and grown past this event to PDs during residency application. Exemplary behavior and academics will help you get past this over time. Obviously you need to be prepared on how to address the issue with state licensing boards. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[Dral]

Also note, you'll have to find a lawyer who understands this sector of society.

I had an underage drinking charge from when I was in high school. It's a good bit different since I was non-trad and that was like 15 years before I applied to med school. However, I wanted to make sure things were ok for state licensure. I went to a relatively random lawyer to see if I needed to report it. Wasted $200. I was no more knowledgeable about whether I should report or not when I walked out.

Anyway, I reported and it wasn't a problem. The main point for you is to search out a lawyer who knows the medical training system/licensure specifically. It will likely take some leg work to find the right counsel in that regard.

 

[Zulli]

Good point. Slightly off topic for OP’s question but in an episode of one of Dr. Ryan Gray’s podcasts he interviews a NY attorney who specializes on this area of law (licensure). The attorney goes through the analysis of whether disclosure of criminal charges on the AAMC application and secondary are mandated or not. Definitely worth a listen if you are charged with a crime, have one in your background, etc.


OP has three issues: Effective defense of the theft charge; determining whether disclosure of the charge and circumstances to the school are necessary; and mitigating the damage with OP’s school if disclosure occurs. Regardless, I would not expect OP to be able to rely on an expungement as a basis for avoiding disclosure.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I’ve looked extensively into what would disqualify for VA rotations to no avail. Obviously some things are obvious but there’s definitely a gray area

 

[SooConfused]

I’ve looked extensively into what would disqualify for VA rotations to no avail. Obviously some things are obvious but there’s definitely a gray area

I'm not sure how gray it really is. It is clear that ANY criminal conviction could be grounds for dismissal from school, or for denial of clearance to work at a VA facility.

It seems more likely to me that, in the case of a conviction for a theft that occurred while the student was enrolled in medical school, that the VA is not going to split hairs, and get into just what was stolen and how much it was worth, in making a determination. The path of least resistance is to just take a hard pass on the person.

I find it interesting that there are now 14 posts in this thread over 3 days, but OP has not come back since the initial post, which laid out the conviction as a foregone conclusion and was really asking about expungement, avoidance of disclosure, or "leeway" for convicted thieves. The consensus seems to be that engaging in this type of conduct while in med school is pretty inexcusable, and that the only clear path to licensure and medical practice is to avoid the conviction altogether, something OP has not presented as a possibility.

The bottom line is that the safest thing for all involved (med school, licensing boards, VA, etc.) is to avoid any potential for future problems by getting rid of this problem now, rather than wading into the gray end of the pool and hoping for the best from someone so lacking in judgment as to put themself in this position while a medical student.

 

[drtoooth3]

Call a heath care specific attorney. Retain them. One that has significant experience with medical boards and such. I'd definitely start there.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The OP joined a week ago, posted this post, and hasn't been back since. I think we can close this thread.