Would I do it over again...

[neuro1986]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Screw this douche. Screw him.

I'm sick and tired of posters like this. He may be a resident but these types of posts are just another type of spam.

Aside from the point that his story just doesn't add up factually in a lot of ways (medical school by a long shot in no way amounts to the efforts and hours you described, from any of the visits I made this year, and it has not been in the least bit overwhelming intellectually for a couple of my super-smart physics-major friends), it is important to note that there are just as many unhappy lawyers, academics, dog-walkers, hair stylists, etc. There's nothing special about medicine. This guy would be unhappy no matter what he did. There's no reason he can't do research as an MD with his amazing IQ and Ivy connections... no reason he couldn't hit the free market with his MD and do just as well as he would have without it. He has more options now that he ever did, but he's too much of a ***** to realize it. Don't scare others because you're depressed. Go see a psychiatrist and get some prozac, you whiney, pathetic bitch.

I am quite shocked at the inappropriate nature of your remarks.


1) I do not believe there exists a specific guide that details what people are and are not allowed to post on SDN (outside of not revealing particular MCAT questions and other obvious infractions). I especially do not think there are, nor should there be, stringent standards that regulate the ideas, information, opinions, etc. that people share on this forum as long as they are presented in a respectful manner. The OP posted information in a cordial manner that is unpopular and causes people to experience uncomfortable emotional responses. There is nothing intrinsically disrespectful about presenting unpopular positions or sharing information that is not endorsed by the majority. In the same way the OP was free to post his experiences, you are free to share your responses. - the free exchange of information in a respectful manner should not be halted on either end, at any time . The only difference between the two of you is that he went about sharing his stories in an unpopular but not disrespectful manner and you decided to share your widely supported (on SDN) reaction in a disrespectful manner. Just because people support your fundamental position DOES NOT mean that they should fail to recognize the considerably disrepectful way you chose to express your feelings.


2) People who present feedback that does not cause us to continue to feel all of the things we are comfortable feeling are just as justified in being a part of this online forum as those who reaffirm our ideas/opinions. If the pre-meds on here are as sure of their commitment to pursuing medicine as many think and say they are, then reading experiences such as the ones that have been appearing over the past few days SHOULD NOT be disruptive to them. They should possess resilience in the face of conflicting information and proceed forward with the same determination that they originally were driven by. They should not feel that their sense of security/certainty is shattered and need people to convince them that their decision to become a physician is in fact the right one for them. For those pre-meds on SDN who are responding (in thought or action) with anger/fear/lost or disturbed confidence, it is most likely due to the fact that they already are somewhat unsure of their decision to become a physician. They would prefer that they are sheltered from any information that uproots their sense of comfort and confidence in their career decision. To expect that you will be protected from insight into medicine that provokes questioning/reevaluation of your decision to enter into and remain in the field, is unrealistic now and will remain unrealistic as you transition through an exceptionally challenging next 8-10 years. ADDITIONALLY, if you have decided to go into medicine I assume (hope) that you have already been confronted by opinions/experiences similar to the OP's and have obviously decided to pursue your dream in spite of unattractive accounts of how medicine has influenced some people. If you have already reflected on such accounts, then you should possess the emotional resilience to not be impacted by posts like the OPs. If you haven't come in contact with something other than encouraging and perfectly positive reflections on medicine and are consequently responding with fear/anger/the need to be reassured that everything will work out for you the way you always thought it would, then perhaps it isn't so bad that you are catching a glimpse of "the other side" before you make what will undoubtedly be one of the most important decisions in your life.

3) If you are able to read posts that introduce doubt into the public forum and genuinely consider (not immediately discredit because of fearful expectations) the remarks being made and STILL feel confident in your decision to pursue medicine and committed to realizing your aspirations, then you should be reassured that you are making the right decision and this path is the right one for you. In fact, being able persevere through moments of doubt will make you a stronger person and more confident physician because you have overcome obstacles that test your devotion to realizing your goals, motivations for pursuing medicine, self-awareness (insight into your short term and long term "fit" in medicine)/ self-confidence, and your capabilities.

* All OP has done is contribute to the pool of information that you have been exposed to on the path of pursuing medicine. It is your choice how much weight you give to it/what value you assign it and how you allow it to influence your choices. At this point however, I'd expect that most of us have a diversity of experiences that we are basing our decision to pursue medicine off of (and not all of them are reassuring/promising). However, when you add the OP's post and others similar to the accumulation of the reasons why you have decided to pursue medicine, if it even comes close to tipping the scale away from following your dream, then the experiences you have been exposed to and the reasons you have accumulated are far too few or far too insignificant to withstand the test of time. At the end of the day, it it your choice what direction you go in, but you ought to feel damn sure you've made the right decision, and should feel thankful that people exist who can provide you with a diversity of experiences upon which you can make a fully informed decision.

 

[jvesco22]

 

[BennieBlanco]

Dude, learn how to get right to the point. Cut each paragraph down by 3/4 and we might read it.

lol! Agreed. no one is reading that.

 

[BennieBlanco]

I am quite shocked at the inappropriate nature of your remarks.


1) I do not believe there exists a specific guide blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

2) People who present feedback that does not cause us to feel all of blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

3) If you are able to read posts that introduce doubt into the public fblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah upon which you can make a fully informed decision.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[HappyChair2000]

Sigh, I remember being this naive. That seems so long ago...

First, to those mocking a poster for potentially being depressed, you'll make great physicians one day. Way to go.

I briefly worked as a management consultant and grew up working after school and every summer in a fish cannery to help make ends meet in my family. I'm used to working hard. The difference between medicine and other careers is that medicine is your life and always will be. As a management consultant (at an MBBB firm), I used to pull 70 h weeks average on a regular basis, and it was fine. Looking back, it certainly wasn't a super-fullfilling job, but it paid the bills I should have stuck with it in retrospect.

In medicine, you are your job. Imagine Office Space if the main character was at work from 5AM till 9PM every day and slept at work every third night. He wouldn't have had time to go to that hypnotist. That is modern medicine.

I miss having friends. I miss speaking with my family. Hell, I miss human contact outside of a nurse paging me 3 times to see if Ms. X's ass rash looks any bigger at 2AM.

Combine that with the actual work. There is the endless paperwork. Everything you think has to be written down. Nothing I do actually seems to help anyone. Hospitals and a soul-crushing system combine to push you to do needless painful things to patients for the sake of profit and covering-your-ass.

I'm think now I'll work for a few years to pay off my loans then do something, anything else. I hate this job and the job is my life. Everyone around me seems to hate this job.

I haven't kept up much with news about health care reform, but it just looks like everyone will get medicare. Doctor's salaries will go down 10-20% but that is fine. I make plenty for a single guy even as a resident. And I'd gladly switch out of this to have a job making less but still enough to pay back now 300k in loans.

The best advice I can offer most of you is do something, anything else. I'm going to graduate, work for a few years to pay back my loans then do something else. I want my 20s back.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I'm assuming you never had a real full time job before medical school. I can tell you from personal experience (after working in multiple corporations over the years) that if 50% of docs hate their jobs, then you've got yourself a winner.

Go work in the corporate world for a few months, and I highly doubt you'll find more than 5% of employees who are "happy" with their jobs (I put "happy" in paranthesis because there's no such thing as happy from what I've experienced).

I'm a member of corporate America, and I approve this message.

I'm a former member of corporate America, a nontrad who spent 5 years as a software developer before doing a post-bacc and applying to med school. I DISapprove this message and agree with the OP.

I've only made it as far as 3rd year of medical school, but I feel the way the OP does and would never do this again. If you don't love medicine for its own sake, you really have no idea how bad it is until you get here. Now, I'm not saying corporate jobs are a cakewalk. I hated my job and would never go back to it in a million years. But what I would do is use my creativity and high IQ which allowed me to score well enough on the MCAT to get into medical school, to find myself an easier job in the corporate world, one that was more to my liking.

When I was preparing to embark on this endeavor, I had a lot of the same thoughts you guys are having about how people who think like the OP have never worked any other job and just think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and really, compared to a typical office-drone job, medicine is pretty good. I even posted such thoughts on SDN, and when I look back now and read them, recalling what I was thinking, realizing how I looked to the medical students and doctors reading them, all I can do is shake my head. Here is one such post. Now I'm eating my words.

ETA: Unlike the OP, I'm not a high-achieving Ivy-leaguer coming from a long line of people expecting too much out of life, in case you think that factors into this way of thinking. My dad does blue-collar work, both my parents are pretty lazy and unambitious, we were very lower-middle class when I was growing up. I foolishly went to a private, small liberal arts college and went into debt majoring in music, simply because I had no idea what to do with my life.

 

[Kaustikos]

I still remember when I applied, right after college. At that point, I thought the world was my oyster. I graduated from a Ivy school with great grades and some really good extracurriculars. Not to sound like too big of a douche, but I had some options. I loved theoretical physics and wanted to be a string theorist. I also loved politics and strongly considered law school as well. I was courted by hedge funds for my mathematical aptitude.

But I thought, you know what, life as an academic seems miserable. Only a few of the top grad students actually get tenure track positions and even then its a bare-knuckle fight to make it. I didn't think I'd like the nitty-gritty of law, and finance seemed hollow.

Remember this post, folks, before being taken aback by this following post.

Sigh, I remember being this naive. That seems so long ago...

First, to those mocking a poster for potentially being depressed, you'll make great physicians one day. Way to go.

You remind me of myself when I was taking organic chemistry. While I was taking it, I would curse every exam and scream constantly. But did I come onto a message board of pre-med High School kids and say "Don't do biology! It sucks!"? I understand you're going through a lot, but you're not finished, so don't act like you're someone that knows everything

I briefly worked as a management consultant and grew up working after school and every summer in a fish cannery to help make ends meet in my family. I'm used to working hard. The difference between medicine and other careers is that medicine is your life and always will be. As a management consultant (at an MBBB firm), I used to pull 70 h weeks average on a regular basis, and it was fine. Looking back, it certainly wasn't a super-fullfilling job, but it paid the bills I should have stuck with it in retrospect.

How long did you work as a consultant, though? was it full time for longer than a year?😕

In medicine, you are your job. Imagine Office Space if the main character was at work from 5AM till 9PM every day and slept at work every third night. He wouldn't have had time to go to that hypnotist. That is modern medicine.

Did you NOT know this before applying? That's kind of your fault....

I miss having friends. I miss speaking with my family. Hell, I miss human contact outside of a nurse paging me 3 times to see if Ms. X's ass rash looks any bigger at 2AM.

Again, did you NOT get the memo?

Combine that with the actual work. There is the endless paperwork. Everything you think has to be written down. Nothing I do actually seems to help anyone. Hospitals and a soul-crushing system combine to push you to do needless painful things to patients for the sake of profit and covering-your-ass.

Just to point out, where I work - I have to sign and document endless paperwork. EVERY project and every experiment I do has to be signed, documented, filed, counter-signed and reviewed. I easily go through 50 projects. So, yes, it sucks doing paperwork, but it's everywhere.

I'm think now I'll work for a few years to pay off my loans then do something, anything else. I hate this job and the job is my life. Everyone around me seems to hate this job.

You must be part of the "I never actually paid attention to what people were telling me medicine was like" club.

I haven't kept up much with news about health care reform, but it just looks like everyone will get medicare. Doctor's salaries will go down 10-20% but that is fine. I make plenty for a single guy even as a resident. And I'd gladly switch out of this to have a job making less but still enough to pay back now 300k in loans.

The best advice I can offer most of you is do something, anything else. I'm going to graduate, work for a few years to pay back my loans then do something else. I want my 20s back.

I'll see you in 10 years. You'll still be a physician and won't be so miserable. Chin up, soldier.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm a former member of corporate America, a nontrad who spent 5 years as a software developer before doing a post-bacc and applying to med school. I DISapprove this message and agree with the OP.

I've only made it as far as 3rd year of medical school, but I feel the way the OP does and would never do this again. If you don't love medicine for its own sake, you really have no idea how bad it is until you get here. Now, I'm not saying corporate jobs are a cakewalk. I hated my job and would never go back to it in a million years. But what I would do is use my creativity and high IQ which allowed me to score well enough on the MCAT to get into medical school, to find myself an easier job in the corporate world, one that was more to my liking.

When I was preparing to embark on this endeavor, I had a lot of the same thoughts you guys are having about how people who think like the OP have never worked any other job and just think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and really, compared to a typical office-drone job, medicine is pretty good. I even posted such thoughts on SDN, and when I look back now and read them, recalling what I was thinking, realizing how I looked to the medical students and doctors reading them, all I can do is shake my head. Here is one such post. Now I'm eating my words.

ETA: Unlike the OP, I'm not a high-achieving Ivy-leaguer coming from a long line of people expecting too much out of life, in case you think that factors into this way of thinking. My dad does blue-collar work, both my parents are pretty lazy and unambitious, we were very lower-middle class when I was growing up. I foolishly went to a private, small liberal arts college and went into debt majoring in music, simply because I had no idea what to do with my life.

I don't want to say you guys are idiots, but it seems like you guys haven't even finished the race and are complaining that it's going to be terrible when you finish. But...you don't know...

 

[Nilf]

I don't want to say you guys are idiots, but it seems like you guys haven't even finished the race and are complaining that it's going to be terrible when you finish. But...you don't know...

Have you even started a race yet???


Oh and by the way I am on the homestretch, and it's all the way downhill. And yet I am yelling to all who want to race: 'DON'T DO IT'.

 

[Kaustikos]

Have you even started a race yet???

You're missing the point entirely.

I was actually counting down the time until you would come on here, Nilf I didn't see the Nilf Signal shining in the night sky...

 

[Neuro Doctor]

I am sorry that you medical students/residents/interns/fellows are having such a hard and sucky time with your chosen career choice. Although I am only about to begin my medical school journey I am going to embrace it and put my all into what I do with an optimistic attitude no matter what.

I think the real problem is that alot of people go into the field thinking it's more fun than real work like some ER or Greys Anatomy show and it's not. I've done nursing and medical assisting so I know how it feels to be the underdog and work hard for nothing. Above all, what I care about the most down to my heart is the patient and the good that my hard work and sleepless nights can and will do for others.

I have many medical school friends and some are even completing residencies and neither of them have ever talked like this. They have lots of friends, engage in many social acitivites, and still have a sense of accomplishment as doctors and future doctors (many of them from Harvard Med, Hopkins, Baylor, and such which is really hard and grueling).

What it all boils down is what you allow yourself to feel and your outlook on life. You can be a med student/ resident/ fellow working long and hard hours and still have a wonderful life outside of what you do. I am a mother and I know what hard work is believe me. Some days I don't even get an ounce of sleep but when I do I sleep well with wonderful dreams.

My advice for the op is to get some social skills and learn to talk to others, vent a little in a positive way, see a psychiatrist or take a break if you can. If it's that bad then just quit while you can before you're old and bitter. I would hate to be your patient and have to feel that backlash of your hardlife pessimism.😡

 

[maceo]

anyone who embarks on a career in medicine is entering a world of pain. but i aint gonna try to convince anyone not to do it. the next 15-20 years will be brutal for docs until the pendulum swings the other way

 

[Neuro Doctor]

So I guess everyone applying to medical school should just wait another decade to go ahead when times get better. Geeshe, does anyone have anything positive to say about medicine on this forum? Who cares about the patient's or research nowadays???

 

[BennieBlanco]

Message to the residents/med students/complainers...

Stop complaining and change your career. You honestly think you are saving people from pursuing medicine? Some of us want to do this because we have a passion for it.

And all the cynical BS that says, "oh, wait and see, you won't like it." Seriously get a life.

Here's a scenario, you are born in Africa and your parents have AIDS and die when you are 10. Then you starve half your life and die at 30. On the way to death you've been inflicted with every disease possible while you watch friends and family ravaged and threatened constantly by war.

OR you work as a doctor but the hours are tough and you only get paid over 100k. And oh yeah, you have debt to pay. Boo hooo. Call mommy, this isn't fair.😴😴😴😴

Wait, I'm in America and I FREELY got to chose my career and I can FREELY chose what to do with the rest of my life!? what!?

Quit if you don't like it. Stop complaining and go make money and pay off your debt. I don't really respect any of you because if you are saying how bad it is, you don't have enough courage to go quit and do what you want. "Oh I have 300k in debt though" Then figure out how to make some money. You live in America. Many people have become millionaires in America, you aren't even at half a million in debt. STOP TYPING START THINKING. Bill gates managed to use his mind to acquire over 50 billion dollars. You have to pay off 300k (that's less than 0.0006% of what he did)... very possible. Looks like you may have to rent an apartment and sell your home, oh well you are still in America and have freedom/food/your health/etc on and on.

Guess what, you aren't the only docs out there. Most of us know doctors that are... (drum roll please)... happy and satisfied. Maybe you guys picked too difficult of a specialty. Or maybe you should have read forums like these to find *****s like you complaining. "It is really tough!" Grow up.

Man up, stop complaining and do what you need to do. And if I knew you so we could have a "I told you so" bet later on, when a lot of us are working and happy that would be great. But unfortunately we don't know each other.

Stop spewing your negativity. If you want to tell people about the pitfalls then you can PM them or something.

All the happy satisfied residents aren't coming to SDN because they are enjoying their time off.

Harder than what you're doing:

- Working hard labor as an illiterate American immigrant
- Being forced to do mindless labor in a communist country
- Living in Africa with no food
- Being a slave in America 200 years ago
- Being born a Jew during the holocaust


Seriously, go read the book Man's Search For Meaning. That guy was in a concentration camp and had a much better attitude than you spoiled brats.
GOOD DAY SIRS!!!!

 

[Kaustikos]

So I guess everyone applying to medical school should just wait another decade to go ahead when times get better. Geeshe, does anyone have anything positive to say about medicine on this forum? Who cares about the patient's or research nowadays???

No, you were absolutely right. I can name at least 10 people in medical school who have no regrets about their choices. This cynical/depressing attitude is not the norm, but a regional selection of opinions. It's the same thing as the "pre-meds" you tend to find here - saying a 30mcat and 3.6 gpa is low and if you don't cure cancer, you'll never get into medical school.

 

[jaxasp]

i can't believe you guys are all refuting what they are telling you, if you don't like what they are saying just keep pushing along the pre-med path and shut the hell up.
if you talk to obama, and he says damn this job is hard, but clinton/bush say well it wasn't that bad in hindsight, whose opinion matters more - the person who is CURRENTLY in the process. obviously most difficult memories are repressed as time goes on. so if you have a friend that tells you med school isn't that bad, and one that say it is, don't idiotically take one side. you aren't there, and your opinion is entirely worthless.

 

[Kaustikos]

i can't believe you guys are all refuting what they are telling you, if you don't like what they are saying just keep pushing along the pre-med path and shut the hell up.
if you talk to obama, and he says damn this job is hard, but clinton/bush say well it wasn't that bad in hindsight, whose opinion matters more - the person who is CURRENTLY in the process. obviously most difficult memories are repressed as time goes on. so if you have a friend that tells you med school isn't that bad, and one that say it is, don't idiotically take one side. you aren't there, and your opinion is entirely worthless.

But someone is wrong...you can't give in









YOU CAN'T GIVE IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MegaProjectile]

1)My friend graduated from Columbia law school and was recruited by a top law firm. His story:Corporate lawyers pour in over 100 hours/ per week and have to bring in clients or they face the chopping board. Wanna talk about pressure? Try corporate law. He has a house in the Hamptons and drives a Mercedes but barely has the time to enoy them.

2)I use to envy my friend that is a flight attendant and travels around the world but guess what ? It gets old really quickly.His story:

• Working 12 hour flights on your feet while serving drinking to rude and annoying passengers

• going to countries you can't speak the language so you're confinded to your hotel room,

• waking up at 3am to make the 5am flight back,

• your sleep cycle is messed up so you start to develop insomnia,

• physiological stress that comes with high altitude pressure,

• you can't maintain a good relationship since you're always traveling,

• and a great number of flight attendants have alcohol abuse problem.

Still think the job is sexy and fun?

I think the residents posting here should really(I mean really) explore other jobs before dealing the blow to medicine. Medicine looks good from the outside but so does any other high paying job until you step in it. You don't have to be a neurosurgeon. There are fields in medicine that have good lifestyle and pay well.

 

[sarahl86]

To the OP: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

I'm noticing that most of the people responding are pre-meds, and I myself am an incoming MS1 trying not to be intimidated by what I'm getting myself into despite my work experiences and conviction that medicine is 100% for me. The OP has every right to voice his opinions on his own obviously negative experiences from medical school on - just as everyone else who has posted similar threads. Bear in mind that you're more likely to see commentary from the people complaining than the people who actually love what they are doing.

There are going to be times for all of us (if we get in/got in) where we doubt ourselves, hate the debt we're in, wish we had done something else but that's the nature of the beast. If you're horribly intimidated by this post then you probably shouldn't keep going on this path because you're likely to experience things that will cause a lot more self-doubt. Like many things on SDN it needs to be taken with a grain of salt because OP is obviously more than a little dissatisfied with his/her life choices.

No need to turn this into a "you're just another ticked off/hate the world resident, get over yourself because what you have to say doesn't matter and won't change my mind." Respond to it however you wish but there's no need to be overly critical of the OP. Read and move on.

The only thing I find irritating about this thread is that there are 50 million other ones telling us "don't do it"...well, you can't really stop the people who really want to do it through SDN so if its that bad I'd find another soap box to stand on.

 

[Trexate]

To OP: I empathize with you, I really do. Being stuck in a career that you can't stand is something I would not wish on anybody. It blows. It is exactly like Office Space and it ruins your entire life. Hell, I only work a 9-5, but the disdain is such that it permeates every hour of every day. Try not to let it get you THAT down, which is easier said than done. Besides, it can't stay this bad forever, right? I mean eventually we all have to die.

"That means that every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life."
"What about today? Is today the worst day of your life?"
"Yeah."
"Wow, that's messed up."

 

[Magentta]

Quote:
Originally Posted by phospho
I'm assuming you never had a real full time job before medical school. I can tell you from personal experience (after working in multiple corporations over the years) that if 50% of docs hate their jobs, then you've got yourself a winner.

Go work in the corporate world for a few months, and I highly doubt you'll find more than 5% of employees who are "happy" with their jobs (I put "happy" in paranthesis because there's no such thing as happy from what I've experienced).



I'm a member of corporate America, and I approve this message.

Another member of corporate America supporting this message. Medicine is probably one of the most rewarding occupations there are. Believe me, the business world is loaded with its own garbage, and in my opinion, much less tolerable - you go through all of it and at the end of the day, your main goal was to increase some CEO's profit margin. Big wow.

At least in medicine you know that what you're doing is good. Yes, people might not be appreciative, and yes, you might not get recognition for what you do - but it doesn't lessen the value of what you're doing by any means.

Not saying you don't legitimately dislike it - but just because you hate it doesn't mean everyone else will. And you're entitled to have your complaints, but it doesn't mean everyone else will have the same ones. It's personal preference and personal passion.

 

[twocentnews]

I've worked in three different corporations throughout high school and college, full-time in the summers and doing more than just secretarial jobs; I was actually filling in for a full-time position at an international company in the finance dept.

Corporate America sucks. I'd rather be a doctor in debt than a brain-dead corporate slave any day of the week.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Glad to hear some of us have weighed the cost and know the pitfalls and STILL are grateful and excited at the opportunity to be a doctor in America.

Stay positive. Stay courageous.

And stay grateful!

 

[imer]

...

 

[Excelsius]

Let me clarify. Doctors 20 years ago made more than they do now. In actual numbers. So lets say doctor made 20 dollars in 1980 he is still making 20 dolars. or less. 30 years later. I dont know of any profession that is still making exactly what they were making 30 years ago and working twice as hard. can you name one?

Can you post statistics? This is not true as far as I know. I brought this up a few months ago and posted a link to statistics that showed while some fields had salaries that grew slowly, others had as much as 20% gain or more. No one was able to refute or comment on that. The "best" counterargument was: doctors have to work more hours now...

 

[Excelsius]

Why attack the OP? He is in field and experiencing what it is like. You should be happy to have an opportunity where your idealistic views of medicine are at least challenged. That's a good thing. But as always, there are always those few in preallo whose immaturity prevails and they start their assault. Relax!

I completely agree that if you had a job before medschool, your perspective would be balanced. What many residents describe here has a lot of characteristics of problems that people have in their everyday jobs. Imagine not having worked all your life and suddenly you are a resident working 80+ hours a week. That must feel like crap! Now imagine if you're from a privileged background where money was never an issue and you don't know that much about hard work. That's like a death sentence. So residents, when you post your experiences here, keep in mind that it is only your perspective based on your own background outside of medicine. I also hope that you can agree with me that having a job before starting medschool must become a prerequisite for admission. I think that the majority of premeds have no idea what they are getting into and they end up in a place where they can't back out. Having a job will expand their options. If they do choose to go into medicine, at least they will have a better appreciation.

If you have not had a job before starting medical school, you are in position to judge medicine and compare it to anything else, I don't care whether you are a young resident or an old attending. Age is important, but experience is even more important.


I know, some of you might say that having not done a residency disqualifies one to make any comments about it. That's a valid point, just like it is equally as valid to state that if you have not held a regular job before medschool then you can't compare medicine to anything. Therefore, to make my case, I'll bring up one example. Some time ago I read an article about this Mexican guy who went to HMS and did NS. Most will agree that NS is the toughest residency. So, now he is an attending and is very happy. When they asked him wasn't it very hard to become a neurosurgeon, he said that no, picking fruits in the field was much harder. That's a perspective.

 

[Kaustikos]

Why attack the OP? He is in field and experiencing what it is like. You should be happy to have an opportunity where your idealistic views of medicine are at least challenged. That's a good thing. But as always, there are always those few in preallo whose immaturity prevails and they start their assault. Relax!

I completely agree that if you had a job before medschool, your perspective would be balanced. What many residents describe here has a lot of characteristics of problems that people have in their everyday jobs. Imagine not having worked all your life and suddenly you are a resident working 80+ hours a week. That must feel like crap! Now imagine if you're from a privileged background where money was never an issue and you don't know that much about hard work. That's like a death sentence. So residents, when you post your experiences here, keep in mind that it is only your perspective based on your own background outside of medicine. I also hope that you can agree with me that having a job before starting medschool must become a prerequisite for admission. I think that the majority of premeds have no idea what they are getting into and they end up in a place where they can't back out. Having a job will expand their options. If they do choose to go into medicine, at least they will have a better appreciation.

If you have not had a job before starting medical school, you are in position to judge medicine and compare it to anything else, I don't care whether you are a young resident or an old attending. Age is important, but experience is even more important.


I know, some of you might say that having not done a residency disqualifies one to make any comments about it. That's a valid point, just like it is equally as valid to state that if you have not held a regular job before medschool then you can't compare medicine to anything. Therefore, to make my case, I'll bring up one example. Some time ago I read an article about this Mexican guy who went to HMS and did NS. Most will agree that NS is the toughest residency. So, now he is an attending and is very happy. When they asked him wasn't it very hard to become a neurosurgeon, he said that no, picking fruits in the field was much harder. That's a perspective.

I'm only chiming in to say I agree, as is obvious from my previous posts in this thread. I don't want to start an e-fight, just to let residents understand that what they do is something you have to put up with EVERYwhere.

 

[Hoju]

Considering the amount of completely miserable people in medicine, I am surprised a few don't snap like the mailmen used to. Reading some of these posts makes doctoring seem like Hell would be an escape. Accept the chosen path or change it.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Why attack the OP? He is in field and experiencing what it is like. You should be happy to have an opportunity where your idealistic views of medicine are at least challenged. That's a good thing. But as always, there are always those few in preallo whose immaturity prevails and they start their assault. Relax!

I completely agree that if you had a job before medschool, your perspective would be balanced. What many residents describe here has a lot of characteristics of problems that people have in their everyday jobs. Imagine not having worked all your life and suddenly you are a resident working 80+ hours a week. That must feel like crap! Now imagine if you're from a privileged background where money was never an issue and you don't know that much about hard work. That's like a death sentence. So residents, when you post your experiences here, keep in mind that it is only your perspective based on your own background outside of medicine. I also hope that you can agree with me that having a job before starting medschool must become a prerequisite for admission. I think that the majority of premeds have no idea what they are getting into and they end up in a place where they can't back out. Having a job will expand their options. If they do choose to go into medicine, at least they will have a better appreciation.

If you have not had a job before starting medical school, you are in position to judge medicine and compare it to anything else, I don't care whether you are a young resident or an old attending. Age is important, but experience is even more important.


I know, some of you might say that having not done a residency disqualifies one to make any comments about it. That's a valid point, just like it is equally as valid to state that if you have not held a regular job before medschool then you can't compare medicine to anything. Therefore, to make my case, I'll bring up one example. Some time ago I read an article about this Mexican guy who went to HMS and did NS. Most will agree that NS is the toughest residency. So, now he is an attending and is very happy. When they asked him wasn't it very hard to become a neurosurgeon, he said that no, picking fruits in the field was much harder. That's a perspective.

- Those "attacking" are being attacked by negativity. I don't have idealistic views of medicine. I have read many posts from unhappy docs and know personally unhappy docs. There is no reason to relax when an enemy is at the gates, this enemy is called "spoiled brats and rotten attitudes" and they are contagious.

It isn't the doctor it is the person. Just like your story of the guy who said picking fruits in the field was harder, different person under similar circumstances, positive result. As I said in my previous post, these people are spoiled. And just like they have a right to share their opinion, so do I. I don't respect their credentials because they are talking about how miserable they are yet doing nothing about it.

Again as I said before: Those doing something harder than the miserable medical folk.

- Read Man's Search for Meaning (a guy in a concentration camp that managed to have a more positive attitude than you guys).
- Being born with AIDS, poor and starving in Africa.
- Being a slave in America 200 years ago.
- Picking fruits in the fields in mexico

Not as hard: Being a doctor in America (overcoming many hours of work and debt), while being paid in the top 3% of American incomes. Wow. Wait? You are in the richest country in the world (that the world has ever known) and you are in the top 3% of incomes? Life must be good right? OP, "no, it is miserable"

 

[Kaustikos]

- Those "attacking" are being attacked by negativity. I don't have idealistic views of medicine. I have read many posts from unhappy docs and know personally unhappy docs. There is no reason to relax when an enemy is at the gates, this enemy is called "spoiled brats and rotten attitudes" and they are contagious.

It isn't the doctor it is the person. Just like your story of the guy who said picking fruits in the field was harder, different person under similar circumstances, positive result. As I said in my previous post, these people are spoiled. And just like they have a right to share their opinion, so do I. I don't respect their credentials because they are talking about how miserable they are yet doing nothing about it.

Again as I said before: Those doing something harder than the miserable medical folk.

- Read Man's Search for Meaning (a guy in a concentration camp that managed to have a more positive attitude than you guys).
- Being born with AIDS, poor and starving in Africa.
- Being a slave in America 200 years ago.
- Picking fruits in the fields in mexico

Not as hard: Being a doctor in America (overcoming many hours of work and debt), while being paid in the top 3% of American incomes. Wow. Wait? You are in the richest country in the world (that the world has ever known) and you are in the top 3% of incomes? Life must be good right? OP, "no, it is miserable"

But we can't chime in because we're not in the program. We don't know what it's like. We could be survivors of the holocaust but our point wouldn't be taken into consideration.

 

[niranjan162]

- Those "attacking" are being attacked by negativity. I don't have idealistic views of medicine. I have read many posts from unhappy docs and know personally unhappy docs. There is no reason to relax when an enemy is at the gates, this enemy is called "spoiled brats and rotten attitudes" and they are contagious.

It isn't the doctor it is the person. Just like your story of the guy who said picking fruits in the field was harder, different person under similar circumstances, positive result. As I said in my previous post, these people are spoiled. And just like they have a right to share their opinion, so do I. I don't respect their credentials because they are talking about how miserable they are yet doing nothing about it.

Again as I said before: Those doing something harder than the miserable medical folk.

- Read Man's Search for Meaning (a guy in a concentration camp that managed to have a more positive attitude than you guys).
- Being born with AIDS, poor and starving in Africa.
- Being a slave in America 200 years ago.
- Picking fruits in the fields in mexico

Not as hard: Being a doctor in America (overcoming many hours of work and debt), while being paid in the top 3% of American incomes. Wow. Wait? You are in the richest country in the world (that the world has ever known) and you are in the top 3% of incomes? Life must be good right? OP, "no, it is miserable"

did u really compare the holocaust, aids and slavery ( travesties) to being a doctor (a job)?

You just took this thread to a whole new level of stupidity.

 

[Excelsius]

- Those "attacking" are being attacked by negativity. I don't have idealistic views of medicine. I have read many posts from unhappy docs and know personally unhappy docs. There is no reason to relax when an enemy is at the gates, this enemy is called "spoiled brats and rotten attitudes" and they are contagious.

It isn't the doctor it is the person. Just like your story of the guy who said picking fruits in the field was harder, different person under similar circumstances, positive result. As I said in my previous post, these people are spoiled. And just like they have a right to share their opinion, so do I. I don't respect their credentials because they are talking about how miserable they are yet doing nothing about it.

Again as I said before: Those doing something harder than the miserable medical folk.

- Read Man's Search for Meaning (a guy in a concentration camp that managed to have a more positive attitude than you guys).
- Being born with AIDS, poor and starving in Africa.
- Being a slave in America 200 years ago.
- Picking fruits in the fields in mexico

Not as hard: Being a doctor in America (overcoming many hours of work and debt), while being paid in the top 3% of American incomes. Wow. Wait? You are in the richest country in the world (that the world has ever known) and you are in the top 3% of incomes? Life must be good right? OP, "no, it is miserable"

I know what you are trying to say and there was a time when I was getting upset when all the posts from residents were all about negativity and offered no solutions but to bail out. However, I just don't think that trying to attack these people is right. Like it or not, their opinions are also important and we don't want to discourage these people from posting in preallo because students here can't handle it. This is a good opportunity to have a civil discussion. You can bring up your points as well and it will help everyone reading the thread to decipher the information.

I am also not sure that all these unhappy docs are spoiled brats. If you don't have a job before you start medschool doesn't mean you're a spoiled brat. There can be many reasons why the person didn't have to work that may not have anything to do with family wealth (such as full scholarships, etc).

If we did a poll on SDN as to how many preallos have ever worked, we might find out that more than half have not worked. It is the system that creates the wrong type of a doctor. All medschools care about is GPA and MCAT. I would like to see them place a heavier emphasis on life experience. How are you supposed to have any significant experiences if you're busting your arse to break a 3.7? Whats the difference between that kid with 4.0 and 3.5 anyway? A couple of Bs? It just doesn't make sense why are schools so obsessed about GPA. The MCAT, yeah, I can understand. But I don't see anything wrong if you have less than 3.5, good MCAT, and busy life experience to show that you're a hard worker. That pretty much covers all bases. People are surprised that every year there are several dozen students who don't get in with 4.0 and 40 (or something like that). In reality, I think the rejection rates are too small. As we have seen in threads like this, many people should not be in medschool. The worst part? They don't even know it until it's too late. Making having a job a prerequisite might ameliorate the circumstances somewhat, but I think it is more important to de-emphasize the digital value of GPA and emphasize other aspects.

 

[Kaustikos]

did u really compare the holocaust, aids and slavery ( travesties) to being a doctor (a job)?

You just took this thread to a whole new level of stupidity.

Fair enough.

I'd say being a garbage man is infinitely worse than being a physician.

you get treated like **** for picking up **** and smell like **** and don't make ****.

 

[imer]

...

 

[jvesco22]

did u really compare the holocaust, aids and slavery ( travesties) to being a doctor (a job)?

You just took this thread to a whole new level of stupidity.

You obviously missed the point. From what I took from it, he was using extreme examples to show that you don't have to be a doctor to go through struggles and know what it is like to be in an extremely bad situation. So for someone to say "you're still a premed or you're only an MS1," in order to nullify their view on what it's like to have been through a struggle. You have no idea what people are or have been through in the past. So when you say "you've never been through it, so you don't understand," get off your high horse...

 

[BennieBlanco]

did u really compare the holocaust, aids and slavery ( travesties) to being a doctor (a job)?

You just took this thread to a whole new level of stupidity.

Did I just compare "people having great attitudes in the WORST of circumstances" to "people having poor, woe is me, attitudes in the BEST of circumstances"?

The comparison is:
(Gifts of living in Ameica) to (Challenges living in poorer countries)
and
(attitude in horrible conditions) to (attitude in rosy conditions)

Read Man's Search For Meaning. A guy in the holocaust who has a much better attitude than all these people complaining who have everything anyone in history could ask for.

The comparison is not Doc vs AIDS.

The comparison is that many people in history have greater challenges and have overcome them AND that life is pretty good here in America. It is a valid point.

The point is we have millions of things to be grateful for (health/shelter/food/freedom/choices/etc), while most others on the planet do not.

This is a mature view on things, called being grateful for the many gifts I have being born into a great country able to do whatever job I want VS being born into a country where I am poor, diseased, and constantly in danger. Solely based upon your birthplace you have more advantages than disadvantages! What an amazing country, give thanks friend!

Yes I make the comparison.

 

[phospho]

No, you were absolutely right. I can name at least 10 people in medical school who have no regrets about their choices. This cynical/depressing attitude is not the norm, but a regional selection of opinions. It's the same thing as the "pre-meds" you tend to find here - saying a 30mcat and 3.6 gpa is low and if you don't cure cancer, you'll never get into medical school.

totally agree. I've spent the last week hanging out with a bunch of my future classmates, and a lot of the 3rd and 4th years came out with us a few times. I can think of at least 20 people that I talked to in the last week who are third or 4th years who absolutely love their choice (i.e. medicine).

I think most people who come on SDN are either asking for advice, or are unhappy people trying to vent their frustration. That's why (at least in my opinion), it would be crazy to think of SDN as the general population.

If I'm happy with my chosen pathway in 3 years, I'm not going to go find SDN and post about how happy I am (though very very few people do). My point is that no one will go out of their way to find a site like SDN unless they're miserable or need advice about a particular thing.

 

[phospho]

I'm a former member of corporate America, a nontrad who spent 5 years as a software developer before doing a post-bacc and applying to med school. I DISapprove this message and agree with the OP.

I've only made it as far as 3rd year of medical school, but I feel the way the OP does and would never do this again. If you don't love medicine for its own sake, you really have no idea how bad it is until you get here. Now, I'm not saying corporate jobs are a cakewalk. I hated my job and would never go back to it in a million years. But what I would do is use my creativity and high IQ which allowed me to score well enough on the MCAT to get into medical school, to find myself an easier job in the corporate world, one that was more to my liking.

When I was preparing to embark on this endeavor, I had a lot of the same thoughts you guys are having about how people who think like the OP have never worked any other job and just think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and really, compared to a typical office-drone job, medicine is pretty good. I even posted such thoughts on SDN, and when I look back now and read them, recalling what I was thinking, realizing how I looked to the medical students and doctors reading them, all I can do is shake my head. Here is one such post. Now I'm eating my words.

ETA: Unlike the OP, I'm not a high-achieving Ivy-leaguer coming from a long line of people expecting too much out of life, in case you think that factors into this way of thinking. My dad does blue-collar work, both my parents are pretty lazy and unambitious, we were very lower-middle class when I was growing up. I foolishly went to a private, small liberal arts college and went into debt majoring in music, simply because I had no idea what to do with my life.

very awesome post! thank you!

 

[neuro1986]

To the OP: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

I'm noticing that most of the people responding are pre-meds, and I myself am an incoming MS1 trying not to be intimidated by what I'm getting myself into despite my work experiences and conviction that medicine is 100% for me. The OP has every right to voice his opinions on his own obviously negative experiences from medical school on - just as everyone else who has posted similar threads. Bear in mind that you're more likely to see commentary from the people complaining than the people who actually love what they are doing.

There are going to be times for all of us (if we get in/got in) where we doubt ourselves, hate the debt we're in, wish we had done something else but that's the nature of the beast. If you're horribly intimidated by this post then you probably shouldn't keep going on this path because you're likely to experience things that will cause a lot more self-doubt. Like many things on SDN it needs to be taken with a grain of salt because OP is obviously more than a little dissatisfied with his/her life choices.

No need to turn this into a "you're just another ticked off/hate the world resident, get over yourself because what you have to say doesn't matter and won't change my mind." Respond to it however you wish but there's no need to be overly critical of the OP. Read and move on.

The only thing I find irritating about this thread is that there are 50 million other ones telling us "don't do it"...well, you can't really stop the people who really want to do it through SDN so if its that bad I'd find another soap box to stand on.

 

[Charles English]

this book is great. 😎

 

[HappyChair2000]

Hehe, it's cute people rushing to my defense. Rest assured, I really couldn't give less of a **** about random bulletin board insults so no worries. (Spoiled brat is a new one. I grew up on food stamps).

I worked for a year as a consultant (I applied right AFTER I graduated) mostly as a stall for time before making a decision about what to do with life. I made the wrong call.

The difference with medicine is that you can't really stop if you figure out it's not your thing and until you try it three years in, you really don't know what it's like. If it is your thing, great, super. Enjoy being the 10% that like their job. If you don't know, for the love of god do something else. There are 90% odds you'll end up like me and the majority of physicians I know. Compare and contrast the number of happy vs. miserable attending you've met. My numbers I guarantee you are about right.

As for me, I'm going to work for a few years to pay off loans. My plan now is to take the actuarial exams and get an entry level job. I'm a bit old for it but I think I might be able to pull it off. I'll work 9-5 for a decent salary and have my life back. I miss life.

Adios all, I'm out.

 

[jvesco22]

90% odds you'll end up like me and the majority of physicians I know...

Statements like that is why people think you are miserable and need professional help...

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Statements like that is why people think you are miserable and need professional help...

Why? The majority of the doctors I've interacted with have basically said the same thing as the OP: if there's anything else you can imagine doing, do that instead because once you get in medicine, it's hard to get out.

Most of the doctors I've talked to have said they probably wouldn't do it all again if they could go back in time; a good number of them had jobs prior to deciding on medical school so not all of them were the kind of people who never had a job until they graduated from medical school. Although my sample size is definitely not large, most of them recommended not going into medicine.

There were also some who absolutely loved what they did and loved explaining certain tests or conditions to me. Hopefully, I'll be one of those people.

 

[imer]

...

 

[BennieBlanco]

totally agree. I've spent the last week hanging out with a bunch of my future classmates, and a lot of the 3rd and 4th years came out with us a few times. I can think of at least 20 people that I talked to in the last week who are third or 4th years who absolutely love their choice (i.e. medicine).

I think most people who come on SDN are either asking for advice, or are unhappy people trying to vent their frustration. That's why (at least in my opinion), it would be crazy to think of SDN as the general population.

If I'm happy with my chosen pathway in 3 years, I'm not going to go find SDN and post about how happy I am (though very very few people do). My point is that no one will go out of their way to find a site like SDN unless they're miserable or need advice about a particular thing.

Great point.

 

[nfgsjklgnsdfkjn]

OP, I hope you are still following this thread:

Do you know of any other satisfying careers in science that we should consider? I major in neuroscience and I absolutely love it. I couldn't imagine doing anything else. However, I don't really know what my options are after graduation or what I should be doing to prepare. I'm considering medicine, but I've heard way too many similar stories as yours to rush into it. It seems most people graduating with my major either go to medical school or do neuroscience grad school, both options that seem to kill any chance of having a life.

I go to a prestigious university and have a good GPA, but don't care too much about future salary, other than being able to buy a house in the suburbs and be able to afford a little vacation every year or so. I just want an interesting job that's secure. $60k/yr would make me plenty happy, but I don't want to be a miserable doctor or miserable grad student who can't find a job.

If anybody else has advice, feel free to jump in. I think the OP might not be coming back.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Hehe, it's cute people rushing to my defense. Rest assured, I really couldn't give less of a **** about random bulletin board insults so no worries. (Spoiled brat is a new one. I grew up on food stamps).

As for me, I'm going to work for a few years to pay off loans. My plan now is to take the actuarial exams and get an entry level job. I'm a bit old for it but I think I might be able to pull it off. I'll work 9-5 for a decent salary and have my life back. I miss life.

Adios all, I'm out.

being spoiled is not about the American financial class you fit into, you can earn 24k per year and qualify for food stamps and be spoiled. Spoiled is an attitude. Just like a billionaire may not be spoiled. Even the poorest Americans are richer than half of the world (that's not so poor).

Sometimes it isn't the career but the person. We both don't know each other, and you can't make a character call on a person based on a few posts. I was referring to the general attitude that we can find a dozen reasons why our lives our so horrible when we live in the richest/best/most opportunity country the world has ever known.

Glad to hear you are planning on a new entry level, good luck with that. I hope you find something you enjoy more.

 

[BennieBlanco]

OP go get some help - the fact you even posted on this forum speaks volumes after you posted the same message elsewhere - this is a simple playground tactic of trying to make someone else miserable to garner sympathy. You clearly aren't doing it to help anyone else.

That said, you could have pulled the plug years ago but you were too weak to make any decisions. Wow I shudder to think what a basket case you really are if you blame the system for your unhappiness - take some responsibility for yourself, in the end you'll feel better not living life as a victim.

although a little harsh, I agree with this post. The OP is a resident and if medicine was so bad they could have changed even with 200k in debt. The "rich" millionaire friends seemed to have made over 200k which would pay off the debt, and he was only a few years behind.

Also this post is correct in assigning blame to the PERSON not the system. We all control our attitudes. We are not victims.

Also I think the reason people have reacted to this is there is no clear attempt to help. It seems more like an attempt to get sympathy and have a pity party.

Great post.

 

[guestdoc]

OP, I hope you are still following this thread:

Do you know of any other satisfying careers in science that we should consider? I major in neuroscience and I absolutely love it. I couldn't imagine doing anything else. However, I don't really know what my options are after graduation or what I should be doing to prepare. I'm considering medicine, but I've heard way too many similar stories as yours to rush into it. It seems most people graduating with my major either go to medical school or do neuroscience grad school, both options that seem to kill any chance of having a life.

I go to a prestigious university and have a good GPA, but don't care too much about future salary, other than being able to buy a house in the suburbs and be able to afford a little vacation every year or so. I just want an interesting job that's secure. $60k/yr would make me plenty happy, but I don't want to be a miserable doctor or miserable grad student who can't find a job.

If anybody else has advice, feel free to jump in. I think the OP might not be coming back.

Dentistry, my friend. Low, low hours and a very solid paycheck. Hour-per-hour, better than most physicians (by the averages). Four years of Dental school=solid paycheck, specialize in something if you want more interesting cases and more money.

Downside, you have to choose your "specialty" right out of undergrad. You specialize in the teeth and mouth from the start without spending time on learning everything and then narrowing it down later on, i.e. med school. And please no one say "ewww but I couldn't never spend the rest of my life in the mouth on teeth!!". I'd rather be at the mouth end than the other end. 😉

 

[Kaustikos]

Dentistry, my friend. Low, low hours and a very solid paycheck. Hour-per-hour, better than most physicians (by the averages). Four years of Dental school=solid paycheck, specialize in something if you want more interesting cases and more money.

Downside, you have to choose your "specialty" right out of undergrad. You specialize in the teeth and mouth from the start without spending time on learning everything and then narrowing it down later on, i.e. med school. And please no one say "ewww but I couldn't never spend the rest of my life in the mouth on teeth!!". I'd rather be at the mouth end than the other end. 😉