would i ever be able to get into an md/phd program

[abcxyz0123]

I am just wondering if could get your guys opinoins...

I am a history major at the university of wisconsin-madison, and I am going to be graduating 1 year early this may. I have a 3.85 gpa, and a 3.7 science gpa, and I took the mcat this past august and got a 32 (9v, 12ps, 11bs). The only research I've done is clinical psychology research for 1 year. However, I am in the process of applying for both a summer research fellowship at the mayo clinic and the a 1 year long NIH IRTA fellowship, which i would plan on starting right after the summer research. Do you think a person like me (history major, only 1 year of research, and only soft science research at that so far, only biomedical research experience i will potentially have will be 10 weeks worth, and the rest will potentially be during myapplication process, avg/below avg mcat) can get into an md/phd program? Specifically UIC's MD/phd? or am i only going to be able to pull this off if i take yet another year off after my gap year (making that two gap years)?

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[dr.z]

I am just wondering if could get your guys opinoins...

I am a history major at the university of wisconsin-madison, and I am going to be graduating 1 year early this may. I have a 3.85 gpa, and a 3.7 science gpa, and I took the mcat this past august and got a 32 (9v, 12ps, 11bs). The only research I've done is clinical psychology research for 1 year. However, I am in the process of applying for both a summer research fellowship at the mayo clinic and the a 1 year long NIH IRTA fellowship, which i would plan on starting right after the summer research. Do you think a person like me (history major, only 1 year of research, and only soft science research at that so far, only biomedical research experience i will potentially have will be 10 weeks worth, and the rest will potentially be during myapplication process, avg/below avg mcat) can get into an md/phd program? Specifically UIC's MD/phd? or am i only going to be able to pull this off if i take yet another year off after my gap year (making that two gap years)?

I think after 1 year of research, you should be fine.

 

[abcxyz0123]

I think after 1 year of research, you should be fine.

wait, do you mean I would be fine if I applied AFTER the 1 year of research at the NIH (giving me an extra gap year during the application process to probably do even more research)? Or did you mean I will be fine if I apply during the 1 year of research at the NIH?

 

[gbwillner]

wait, do you mean I would be fine if I applied AFTER the 1 year of research at the NIH (giving me an extra gap year during the application process to probably do even more research)? Or did you mean I will be fine if I apply during the 1 year of research at the NIH?

No, you should apply during you NIH pre-IRTA training. You'll be a competitive applicant.

 

[abcxyz0123]

No, you should apply during you NIH pre-IRTA training. You'll be a competitive applicant.

really? sorry for dragging my original post along, these are my last few questions though: you don't think that they would be like, why should I admit this kid who has a humanities degree and his only research during his undergrad years was in psychology, of all disciplines? I know I would have biomedical research during the summer and during the app process, but after reading all of the posts on here, including many mdapplicant profiles, I haven't seen one person without a hard science degree, let alone one person w/o a hard science degree and only a summer of basic science research before they sent in their primary applications. But if you guys think that is fine, I would be thrilled.

Finally, when you apply, do you need recommendations from 3 people who you have done research with, PLUS 3 recommendations from 2 basic science profs/1 non-science for the med school application part of it? Because it also seems that getting recommendations might be a limiting factor, b/c I read at some places that they prefer 3 recommendations from people you have done research under, and since I was only a research assistant for 1 year in the psych dept., and will only be able to get 1 more letter from this summer, i am not sure if I will be in trouble or not as far as rec's go.


Thank you guys so much for helping me out, I cannot stress enough how much your advice is helping me out.

 

[dr.z]

No, you should apply during you NIH pre-IRTA training. You'll be a competitive applicant.

I think so too.

 

[Neuronix]

If you want to apply, apply!

What could it hurt you other than a bit of cash and maybe an ego ding? If you get rejected for not having enough research experience, you'll show up at their door again in the next application cycle and the programs will say to themselves "Wow, this kid is persistant". Even in that bad case scenario, you're still on the same track as not applying this year. But in the best case scenario, you get what you want without having to wait a year. I do think it'll be an uphill battle for you, but if you're not shooting for top programs then it may not be so bad. In general,

As for recommendations, it's going to vary from school to school, but they understand some people have only done research under 1 or 2 mentors. I mean, what about those students who spent say 4 years of undergrad doing research in the same lab? Just assemble what you have.

As for your major... Different people are going to have different feelings about it. In the end it's not going to stop you from going MD/PhD. I don't even think it will be a major factor. I think most people will just want to see more research than what you have to show your commitment to the MD/PhD path.

 

[gbwillner]

really? sorry for dragging my original post along, these are my last few questions though: you don't think that they would be like, why should I admit this kid who has a humanities degree and his only research during his undergrad years was in psychology, of all disciplines? I know I would have biomedical research during the summer and during the app process, but after reading all of the posts on here, including many mdapplicant profiles, I haven't seen one person without a hard science degree, let alone one person w/o a hard science degree and only a summer of basic science research before they sent in their primary applications. But if you guys think that is fine, I would be thrilled.

Finally, when you apply, do you need recommendations from 3 people who you have done research with, PLUS 3 recommendations from 2 basic science profs/1 non-science for the med school application part of it? Because it also seems that getting recommendations might be a limiting factor, b/c I read at some places that they prefer 3 recommendations from people you have done research under, and since I was only a research assistant for 1 year in the psych dept., and will only be able to get 1 more letter from this summer, i am not sure if I will be in trouble or not as far as rec's go.


Thank you guys so much for helping me out, I cannot stress enough how much your advice is helping me out.

I love these forums- you can get great advice without having to do ANY work yourself sometimes!

Many of your questions answer themselves, really. As others have said, the humanities degree WILL NOT HURT YOU. Not at all, really. You may questions about it during your interview, where you should say WHY you chose that degree. "Because I thought it was really interesting" is a perfectly good reason. If you can tie it into how it lead you to medicine, that's a golden ticket. I know PLENTY of non-science MSTPs (at a top-ten school, where I am).

If you apply NOW for MSTP, during your final year in College, your IRTA will not be for one year because you will matriculate in med school in August. If by some stroke of luck with almost no research experience you get accepted NOW, you will have to defer your matriculation for one year if you want to do the IRTA. Schools WILL NOT LIKE THIS. They are very regimented with their spending, and they have a spot for you now. If you tell them that you would like to defer during your interview... you will IN NOW WAY BE ACCEPTED. Basically, if you apply now, you will not be accepted to any decent program, I guarantee you. Telling them at your interview that you set up an IRTA fellowship but you're pulling out to start med school will show your interviewers that you can't keep a 1-year commitment. MSTP is 7-10 years. If you are rejected and try again the next year, you are fooling yourself if you think this doesn't hurt you. Re-applicants have much lower success rates than first-time applicants. Although you are a "special case" because you'd be getting more research, schools may wonder why you didn't get in in the first place.

If you wait until next year (applying DURING your IRTA) When interviews roll around you will have at least 6 months of full-time research experience under your belt at the NIH. This is a golden ticket to top-tier MSTP programs. You will get letters of recommendation from NIH faculty, which are likely to be better known than wherever you're at now. Those will go a long way. If you don't get the IRTA (you probably will- don't worry), you can spend the next year wherever doing science as a post-Bac, setting up similar conditions. When you are interviewing MSTP you can tell them all about your wonderful research experiences. You will rock their world. Trust me. Like you, I graduated early, although I did a lot of research undergrad. I then went to the NIH for IRTA training. It was money.

You should get recommendations from everyone you can. Many school require at least 2 from undergrad, so line those up now. Don't wait until next year, when they won't remember who you are. Don't be shy asking NIH faculty for their letters before applications are sent in in Agust/Sept next year.

Good luck

 

[KUNRD07]

Does anyone know how hard it is to get a NIH IRTA position? Thanks.

 

[gbwillner]

Does anyone know how hard it is to get a NIH IRTA position? Thanks.

I was at NIH in 1999, so things may have changed since then. But this is the way it worked back then-

The IRTA program is not really a program at all. There is no schedule and no one runs "it" really. There is no official administrative group for your fellowship, which is strange considering it is run by the government, where administration is 2/3 of every budget. If you are familiar with the NIH summer research program, where there is abundant support from faculty and administration, where you have lunches and courses... This is nothing like that.

Basically, you are a technician. Those positions are called "tech-IRTA", but because its not a job but a fellowship (you are being trained, after all), you don't get technician pay... I got $17,500 in 1999. Basically, you are a slave (just like a grad student!!). There are other types of IRTAs, like "Pre-IRTA" which is predoctoral- this is what you really apply for, but tech-IRTA is better because if you stay more than a year you get a pay raise- and there is no other difference. By now they have probably fixed the loophole, or gotten rid of one of these two all together. The "real" IRTAs are post-doctoral, so you won't get this.

This is how it works- you fill an application and send it to the IRTA administration. All they really do is collect your CV and application and print them out. This goes to a big stack of other IRTA applications. And it just sits there. If a PI wants some slave labor, they will pick up the pile of applications at their convenience. They flip through the applications, and find one they like. If they pick yours, they contact you directly. You will then either interview for the spot or just get it. Many times the stack does not change for a while, so many of the applicants move on before they get the call. I waited 3 or 4 months before I got a call. Then I started at NIH 2 months later. A month into my IRTA, I got another call asking me if I could join another lab (it happened to be just down the hall!). That was easily 6 months after I submitted the application.

This process can be competitive... considering the same candidate may get called by every interested lab for 6 months if they have an outstanding CV. The trick really is to contact the labs you are interested in directly and ask if they have space for a Pre-IRTA. If they say yes, send them your application directly. This increases your chances a billion-fold. So your chances are relative based on how sneaky you are.

Any more current Pre-IRTAs have a more up-to-date description?

 

[Neuronix]

I love these forums- you can get great advice without having to do ANY work yourself sometimes!

Sometimes I just don't know where you'd get this sort of advice. Maybe MD/PhD adcoms, but I'm surprised sometimes at how clueless they can be. MD/PhD program administrators are usually the best, but they're very busy and hard to contact sometimes. Undergrad advisors are usually completely clueless, as are many faculty outside the MD/PhD administration.

If you apply NOW for MSTP, during your final year in College, your IRTA will not be for one year because you will matriculate in med school in August. If by some stroke of luck with almost no research experience you get accepted NOW, you will have to defer your matriculation for one year if you want to do the IRTA. Schools WILL NOT LIKE THIS.

Matriculation dates and deferrment policies depend on the school. In any case, to the op: can you set up the IRTA from August to August? I'm not sure how it works myself.

If you are rejected and try again the next year, you are fooling yourself if you think this doesn't hurt you. Re-applicants have much lower success rates than first-time applicants. Although you are a "special case" because you'd be getting more research, schools may wonder why you didn't get in in the first place.

I've heard the exact opposite numerous times. Reapplying can only help you, especially if you have improved your application. Certainly adcoms will see why you were rejected last year, but they are happy to see that you are reapplying as opposed to going and finding a new career. Does anyone have any real data or additional insight into this?

If you wait until next year (applying DURING your IRTA) When interviews roll around you will have at least 6 months of full-time research experience under your belt at the NIH. This is a golden ticket to top-tier MSTP programs.

Agreed there. You will get into much better programs if you wait.

 

[abcxyz0123]

I love these forums- you can get great advice without having to do ANY work yourself sometimes!



If you apply NOW for MSTP, during your final year in College, your IRTA will not be for one year because you will matriculate in med school in August. If by some stroke of luck with almost no research experience you get accepted NOW, you will have to defer your matriculation for one year if you want to do the IRTA. Schools WILL NOT LIKE THIS.

Good luck

Just wanted to say that I honestly looked up as much info as possible throughout all of these forums and that intransit site as well, as well as as many official md/phd websites for each university I was interested in. I'm not trying to ask questions for the sake of saving time/work, i thought these were pretty legit questions.

Also, I was not planning on applying this year (during my 3rd year) at all, I was asking whether I should apply during my 4th year (i.e. during the IRTA training) OR if I should apply during my "5th year" (i.e. after my IRTA training is finished, so that I would have 1 year of solid research experience before i send in my apps, and then do even more research during that 5th year as well).

Having said all that, I appreciate your advice as well as Neuronix's VERY much. I am much more confident in my application now, and I guess I will be applying next year then.

Thanks again

 

[gbwillner]

Just wanted to say that I honestly looked up as much info as possible throughout all of these forums and that intransit site as well, as well as as many official md/phd websites for each university I was interested in. I'm not trying to ask questions for the sake of saving time/work, i thought these were pretty legit questions.

Also, I was not planning on applying this year (during my 3rd year) at all, I was asking whether I should apply during my 4th year (i.e. during the IRTA training) OR if I should apply during my "5th year" (i.e. after my IRTA training is finished, so that I would have 1 year of solid research experience before i send in my apps, and then do even more research during that 5th year as well).

Having said all that, I appreciate your advice as well as Neuronix's VERY much. I am much more confident in my application now, and I guess I will be applying next year then.

Thanks again

Not knocking you at all- I am just thinking back to my day... When I had these type of questions I would have to wait a week to meet with the Med school advisor at my school. There was a very great chance that they wouldn't know anything. Then I would have to call myself... I called the NIH IRTA office, and I contacted scientists directly (at the NIH) to ask them how to apply for the pre-IRTA. It took weeks/months to get this sort of information. Now it takes 10 minutes.

I hope you got the answers you were looking for. If I were you I would definitely apply during the IRTA, not after. Then you would have "dead time" you would regret losing during your long PhD. Unless your project is going really well and you want to stay, of course.

 

[snobored18]

You need to apply while doing IRTA or something similar. No MD/PhD, let alone a MSTP is going to take the risk of taking an intelligent student who doesn't have at least a year of research experience in a competive setting. The SURF program at Mayo will help, but it has become EXTREMELY competitive the last few years, even though they seem to be growing the program a bit each year. Be careful on counting your chickens before they hatch, IRTA from what I have seen is more about timing than competition, but programs like SURF, NSF, etc. are all very competive and it can't be assumed that you'll get in. To me it would be safer to pick up a second major in a science and work on an undergraduate thesis, possibly working towards a co-author of a paper in a lab at madison.