Would it hurt if we made more doctors computer literate

[CaptainJackSparrow83]

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For those who dont know me. I am a medical school drop out. I guess Im considered a "loser" in the eyes of many.

When I dropped out of medical school, I spoke to a friend who worked for venture capital that solely focused on biotechnology. Im not sure how many this is news to, but the "Big thing" these days is called "big data- especially when it comes to healthcare" (I went into software)

Data itself is pretty useless on its own since its just... data. Unless someone is looking at the data and extrapolating information. Someone or something... Which comes to machine learning , exactly as it sounds, a machine (computer ) learning something. We use machine learning for all sorts of applications, the simplest is probably when you deleted some email from a spam website and the remaining emails from that address started getting sent to your spam folder.

I recently joined a company, and we are one of many that focuses on health data. My company is moderately interesting, we are more of data management, but there are some that are focusing on recreating virtual environments for the human body so we can test XYZ drug in ABC patient.
The biggest benefit we have on our side today is machine learning, lots of data, and deep learning. Its "easier" to recreate environments of different patients.
We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research, and this boom of big health data, would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum. This may not be a popular opinion but I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

And perhaps improve the future?

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I feel like computer literacy should be established by college this day and age.

Idk, I grew up with computers and with writing code.

 

[Redpancreas]

For those who dont know me. I am a medical school drop out. I guess Im considered a "loser" in the eyes of many.

When I dropped out of medical school, I spoke to a friend who worked for venture capital that solely focused on biotechnology. Im not sure how many this is news to, but the "Big thing" these days is called "big data- especially when it comes to healthcare" (I went into software)

Data itself is pretty useless on its own since its just... data. Unless someone is looking at the data and extrapolating information. Someone or something... Which comes to machine learning , exactly as it sounds, a machine (computer ) learning something. We use machine learning for all sorts of applications, the simplest is probably when you deleted some email from a spam website and the remaining emails from that address started getting sent to your spam folder.

I recently joined a company, and we are one of many that focuses on health data. My company is moderately interesting, we are more of data management, but there are some that are focusing on recreating virtual environments for the human body so we can test XYZ drug in ABC patient.
The biggest benefit we have on our side today is machine learning, lots of data, and deep learning. Its "easier" to recreate environments of different patients.
We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research, and this boom of big health data, would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum. This may not be a popular opinion but I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

And perhaps improve the future?

You're throwing around a ton of buzzwords and this is all over the place. What exactly are you asking? Yes, more computer literacy for physicians would be a good thing. I don't personally see it in medical school. If I could have it my way, undergraduate degrees could be completed in two years with pre-reqs and and efficient electives. Time would not be wasted on the useless gen-ed courses you see at 4-year institutions, but rather spent practically on developing competency in computers, foreign language, and investing. One required elective would be a computer competency course where one could choose learning a programming language, MATLAB, statistical analysis, etc. with practical exams (ex. write a script that can recommend stocks for a potential investor) that forces students away from the lazy pattern recognition that multiple choice exams encourage. That can then be expanded on in medical school by having students write code can help make clinical decision tools for patients, etc. That should be on an elective basis though and students doing the elective should already know the fundamentals. I'm quite disappointed the government has not at least started on policy to mandate early computer science education in schools.

 

[Lawpy]

For those who dont know me. I am a medical school drop out. I guess Im considered a "loser" in the eyes of many.

When I dropped out of medical school, I spoke to a friend who worked for venture capital that solely focused on biotechnology. Im not sure how many this is news to, but the "Big thing" these days is called "big data- especially when it comes to healthcare" (I went into software)

Data itself is pretty useless on its own since its just... data. Unless someone is looking at the data and extrapolating information. Someone or something... Which comes to machine learning , exactly as it sounds, a machine (computer ) learning something. We use machine learning for all sorts of applications, the simplest is probably when you deleted some email from a spam website and the remaining emails from that address started getting sent to your spam folder.

I recently joined a company, and we are one of many that focuses on health data. My company is moderately interesting, we are more of data management, but there are some that are focusing on recreating virtual environments for the human body so we can test XYZ drug in ABC patient.
The biggest benefit we have on our side today is machine learning, lots of data, and deep learning. Its "easier" to recreate environments of different patients.
We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research, and this boom of big health data, would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum. This may not be a popular opinion but I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

And perhaps improve the future?

I’m not really sure what you are talking about but machine learning is already a big deal in research, and it is increasingly utilized by doctors and scientists in medical imaging fields to provide important insights. A computer literacy course in medical school is unnecessary.

 

[Raney Schauer]

For those who dont know me. I am a medical school drop out. I guess Im considered a "loser" in the eyes of many.

When I dropped out of medical school, I spoke to a friend who worked for venture capital that solely focused on biotechnology. Im not sure how many this is news to, but the "Big thing" these days is called "big data- especially when it comes to healthcare" (I went into software)

Data itself is pretty useless on its own since its just... data. Unless someone is looking at the data and extrapolating information. Someone or something... Which comes to machine learning , exactly as it sounds, a machine (computer ) learning something. We use machine learning for all sorts of applications, the simplest is probably when you deleted some email from a spam website and the remaining emails from that address started getting sent to your spam folder.

I recently joined a company, and we are one of many that focuses on health data. My company is moderately interesting, we are more of data management, but there are some that are focusing on recreating virtual environments for the human body so we can test XYZ drug in ABC patient.
The biggest benefit we have on our side today is machine learning, lots of data, and deep learning. Its "easier" to recreate environments of different patients.
We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research, and this boom of big health data, would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum. This may not be a popular opinion but I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

And perhaps improve the future?

How about you make tools that dont require a CS degree to use and aren't a time- and soul- suck so doctors can spenf moree time with patients snd less time grinding data entry.

Thats the biggest problem I've found Working with software people. I especially saw this in the defense world. They think everyone should be like them and that everyone wants to spend their time doing software things.

 

[Goro]

For those who dont know me. I am a medical school drop out. I guess Im considered a "loser" in the eyes of many.

When I dropped out of medical school, I spoke to a friend who worked for venture capital that solely focused on biotechnology. Im not sure how many this is news to, but the "Big thing" these days is called "big data- especially when it comes to healthcare" (I went into software)

Data itself is pretty useless on its own since its just... data. Unless someone is looking at the data and extrapolating information. Someone or something... Which comes to machine learning , exactly as it sounds, a machine (computer ) learning something. We use machine learning for all sorts of applications, the simplest is probably when you deleted some email from a spam website and the remaining emails from that address started getting sent to your spam folder.

I recently joined a company, and we are one of many that focuses on health data. My company is moderately interesting, we are more of data management, but there are some that are focusing on recreating virtual environments for the human body so we can test XYZ drug in ABC patient.
The biggest benefit we have on our side today is machine learning, lots of data, and deep learning. Its "easier" to recreate environments of different patients.
We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research, and this boom of big health data, would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum. This may not be a popular opinion but I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

And perhaps improve the future?

Wrong question.

Better to ask: will it help Medicine if more doctors were computer literate?

My sense? Nope.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

How about financial literacy? I see too many physicians living paycheck by paycheck nowadays

 

[CaptainJackSparrow83]

How about you make tools that dont require a CS degree to use and aren't a time- and soul- suck so doctors can spenf moree time with patients snd less time grinding data entry.

Thats the biggest problem I've found Working with software people. I especially saw this in the defense world. They think everyone should be like them and that everyone wants to spend their time doing software things.

This is a terrible and rambunctions quote and it has nothing to do with actual progress in medicine. Sorry you have to enter data bet it sucks, thats not my field.

Thats like asking a dentist to make better treatments for colon cancer.
Im asking if letting doctors learn a language (in computer science), would let them better their progress in research. The Answer is yes.

Also btw if data entry bothers you, it would take you 20 hours of your time to make an app that integrates with what ever system to convert your voice into text

 

[CaptainJackSparrow83]

How about financial literacy? I see too many physicians living paycheck by paycheck nowadays

Thats a common issue in all fields. I currently make more than a primary care physician as do my colleagues (minus the debt) yet I still find people spending through their nose on things they dont need

 

[7331poas]

Or you could be a better programmer and create UIs that do not require a CS degrees to interface?

 

[Little Green Mensch]

Also btw if data entry bothers you, it would take you 20 hours of your time to make an app that integrates with what ever system to convert your voice into text

The family practice docs I worked with on my clerkship pretty much all used Dragon. Why spend 20 hours (but, really, way longer if you're still in the lrn2c0de phase) when you can have your practice manager buy some dictation software?

To be honest, in most of clinical medicine, anything beyond basic computer literacy is not that useful. There's not a whole lot end-users get to play around with in most EMR software, and most physicians do not do a bunch of statistical analysis.

Higher-yield project: make physicians more numerate. Understanding how statistics and probability work is fairly important within medicine, and not just when critically evaluating the literature.

 

[atomheart]

Previously in big data, almost all of my time was spent sifting through garbage unimportant to the big picture. Also, artificial intelligence is often unnecessary if basic logistic regression can answer the same questions with the same or better model fit. For this reason the most recent findings with AI in anesthesia are less than impressive.

My sense is that it is the other way around: big data experts need to learn medicine if they really want to contribute instead of making clinically irrelevant and wasteful products. It's difficult to seriously contribute if you have no skin in the game, as opposed to actually having to take care of other human beings.

 

[BigRedBeta]

You're asking for a systemic change to address your isolated issue.

Med students are already maddeningly focused on "yield" from their time, even to the point that things that are clearly universally beneficial run into push back (eg, the times that a super smart derm applicant struggled on their Peds rotation because they didn't think it worth their time), so I think that for every one med student who would find a coding class useful, there are going to be 50-75 that will be pissed off at a skill they don't deem worth it. That ratio may change depending on the school. I also think whatever experience you had in med school was not typical if you think doctors tend to be heavily involved in research...that just isn't applicable to the overwhelming majority of physicians who are doing normal office hours in Peoria.

You are better off designing a coding crash course for healthcare professionals that are actually interested and charging $700 for an in person class (keep it reasonable in terms of most people's CME funds) and go around to the major conferences selling that. Create an online version for $450 and you might actually have a pretty decent side gig. Demonstrate its effectiveness and then go to the medical schools to offer it as a supplemental course either for their faculty and fellows/residents.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Also btw if data entry bothers you, it would take you 20 hours of your time to make an app that integrates with what ever system to convert your voice into text

So you want doctors to learn computer science so they can do things like spend 20 hours making a voice-to-text app.

This troll thread has gone past its date.

I've only had to code for only one research project I've ever worked on. For the others, it wasn't necessary, but I could if I needed to. Let's not bloat medical education further, shall we?

 

[CaptainJackSparrow83]

Or you could be a better programmer and create UIs that do not require a CS degrees to interface?

Or you could be a better doctor and not let patients die?

Be real my man, the other people in the thread demonstrated they have some literacy, you sound like youre from the dark ages.

Google,facebook, things you use every day are apis. If they didnt exist you could write in binary your whole life. Feel free to check it out and see if you would be more comfortable doing that

 

[CaptainJackSparrow83]

So you want doctors to learn computer science so they can do things like spend 20 hours making a voice-to-text app.

This troll thread has gone past its date.

I've only had to code for only one research project I've ever worked on. For the others, it wasn't necessary, but I could if I needed to. Let's not bloat medical education further, shall we?

You missed the point. Its not a troll thread.
The api already exists.
Someone asked for an application, if they had some experience they could make it on their own. 20 hours may sound like alot to you but so could/would the money that follows should you chose to sell it.

I would like to see doctors be able to code because coding takes maybe a month? To get the fundamentals down, the knowledge they have takes a life time.

The experience they have is invaluable. And for the ones who are exposed to code the number of new solutions and technologies they could come up with would be insane. The problem these days is the guys writing code have no medical experience what so ever.

And as for doctors writing code, perhaps its not a big thing in the remote or rural areas but silicon valley its pretty common for doctors to opt into corporate and startup roles for the bonus money they would make

 

[Chibucks15]

You missed the point. Its not a troll thread.
The api already exists.
Someone asked for an application, if they had some experience they could make it on their own. 20 hours may sound like alot to you but so could/would the money that follows should you chose to sell it.

I would like to see doctors be able to code because coding takes maybe a month? To get the fundamentals down, the knowledge they have takes a life time.

The experience they have is invaluable. And for the ones who are exposed to code the number of new solutions and technologies they could come up with would be insane. The problem these days is the guys writing code have no medical experience what so ever.

And as for doctors writing code, perhaps its not a big thing in the remote or rural areas but silicon valley its pretty common for doctors to opt into corporate and startup roles for the bonus money they would make

With what time do you expect doctors to take classes and code? I mean cmon now

 

[Osteosaur]

Do it as an interprofessional education seminar where I get a catered lunch and can play Hearthstone under the table and I'm in!

 

[Redpancreas]

I see a lot of fingers getting pointed at medical school education in various threads, but ironically I feel like that's the time where students are working the hardest and have the most to learn. I get that high school and college are quintessential times a little more umph needs to be dedicated in that arena. It's obvious that programming is going to be huge for the future yet there are no movements to make computer science a necessary subject like history, etc in K-12 or college.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

You missed the point. Its not a troll thread.
The api already exists.
Someone asked for an application, if they had some experience they could make it on their own. 20 hours may sound like alot to you but so could/would the money that follows should you chose to sell it.

I would like to see doctors be able to code because coding takes maybe a month? To get the fundamentals down, the knowledge they have takes a life time.

The experience they have is invaluable. And for the ones who are exposed to code the number of new solutions and technologies they could come up with would be insane. The problem these days is the guys writing code have no medical experience what so ever.

And as for doctors writing code, perhaps its not a big thing in the remote or rural areas but silicon valley its pretty common for doctors to opt into corporate and startup roles for the bonus money they would make

True, once you get the fundamentals down, you can pick up any programming language fairly quickly.

But I believe if you want to introduce people to computer science, you have to start earlier before people superspecialize into something like medicine. Coding is applicable to many other industries other than medicine. I started coding in middle school and took classes in high school and undergrad. I think that's a much better starting point than in medical school where the volume of everything have to know picks up substantially.

Also, why don't you jump on making speech recognition and dictation software integrated with EMRs if it's so easy and you think you can do better than Google or Nuance Communications? Only 20 hours, bro.

 

[7331poas]

Or you could be a better doctor and not let patients die?

Be real my man, the other people in the thread demonstrated they have some literacy, you sound like youre from the dark ages.

Google,facebook, things you use every day are apis. If they didnt exist you could write in binary your whole life. Feel free to check it out and see if you would be more comfortable doing that

Wrong again. I was a CS major in undergrad.

The responsibility is on the programmer to make a useable interface.

Google doesn't blame the user when Gmail is hard to navigate, otherwise their product would be poor.

 

[Goro]

Or you could be a better doctor and not let patients die?

Be real my man, the other people in the thread demonstrated they have some literacy, you sound like youre from the dark ages.

Google,facebook, things you use every day are apis. If they didnt exist you could write in binary your whole life. Feel free to check it out and see if you would be more comfortable doing that

I fail to see the connection between having coding skills and being a better doctor. Your response to psoas thus makes me say:
:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:

 

[Cath Up]

A different aspect of computer literacy to be sure but for the love of god and all that is holy my fellow med students please teach yourselves how to type quickly. I took a few months of practicing the fundamentals a few times a week and it helped tremendously. With how much time we spend typing these days (voice transcription isn't everywhere) I think it's an important computer-related skill.

One of the better resources I am aware of is keyhero.com

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Wrong again. I was a CS major in undergrad.

The responsibility is on the programmer to make a useable interface.

Google doesn't blame the user when Gmail is hard to navigate, otherwise their product would be poor.

Yeah, I'm getting a vibe OP doesn't understand as much about programming as he's letting on.

API is a cool buzzword to use though.

OP: check out Kaldi kaldi-asr/kaldi

 

[PTPoeny]

A different aspect of computer literacy to be sure but for the love of god and all that is holy my fellow med students please teach yourselves how to type quickly. I took a few months of practicing the fundamentals a few times a week and it helped tremendously. With how much time we spend typing these days (voice transcription isn't everywhere) I think it's an important computer-related skill.

One of the better resources I am aware of is keyhero.com

This is what I was expecting the thread to be about. The attendings that take 10 minutes to hunt and peck a typo ridden two sentences indicating their dictated note is to follow and don't know how to look anything up in the emr without a resident.

 

[mvenus929]

There are some computer skills that all physicians should be good at. Typing being the highest in the list, next up knowing some basic functionality in Office.

Coding is likely useful, but it’s not going to impact the day to day life of most physicians.

 

[libertyyne]

This is dumb on many fundamental levels.
1. If you dont use it you lose it. You could force doctors to take python and scikit learn all you want and it would be lost in a heartbeat since we treat people and dont write code for a living. I know a bunch of CS folks who are in medicine now who talk about how they constantly are losing their cs training because of atrophy.
2. If a doctor really needed CS training 6-12 week bootcamps are all over the place they could be put through the paces to get there.
3. There are plenty of online resources where people can learn to code if they are inclined to do so.
4. There is no need for the Doctor to be doing the coding, just having a basic understanding is sufficient. Division of labor has been a thing since the invention of agriculture.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah, I'm getting a vibe OP doesn't understand as much about programming as he's letting on.

API is a cool buzzword to use though.

OP: check out Kaldi kaldi-asr/kaldi

all seem like buzzwords picked out a wired article.

 

[nimbus]

We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research, and this boom of big health data, would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum. This may not be a popular opinion but I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

And perhaps improve the future?

Most doctors aren’t working on “projects” as part of a team and most doctors don’t do ANY research.

We practice medicine but we can’t do that without residency. Medical school is just pre-residency. An MD is basically a worthless degree without a residency just like my undergrad bio major would have been worthless without the subsequent medical school and residency. I’m sorry your doctor colleague went to the wrong school for his current job but medical schools only role is to prepare you for residency and we don’t need computer literacy beyond EHR for that.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

With the tendency of doctors to be heavily involved in research,

lol

would it hurt to incorporate some brief introductory computer literacy course into the medical school curriculum

Lol

I think a little of the basic sciences could be cut down. And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into

LOL

And perhaps improve the future?

LOLOLOLOL

 

[atomi]

So you just want doctors to be able to hack the Pyxis and bust out some l337 code on roundz yo?

 

[Sephirakra]

And basic computer literacy to be able to comprehend what is written would be a maximum of 20 hours, but it would mega-expand the type of research doctors could delve into.

At first I was uninterested, thinking you were promising to merely expand the types of research I could delve into. But now that you're saying I could mega-expand...

On an unrelated note, I have some magic beans I could part with for the right price.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There are some computer skills that all physicians should be good at. Typing being the highest in the list, next up knowing some basic functionality in Office.

Coding is likely useful, but it’s not going to impact the day to day life of most physicians.

Ding ding ding, we have a winnter!

Unless I know enough coding to break into Epic and make better templates, I fail to see how knowing the code if going to help me in the slightest in my day to day routine.

 

[nobaddays]

We actually have a doctor from Harvard, and has his MBA from stanford, never went to residency working with us. No hate on doctors here but hes the least productive on a team because while he understands the science behind the project, anything he reads is like reading hieroglyphics.

 

[BigRedBeta]

The problem these days is the guys writing code have no medical experience what so ever.

And as for doctors writing code, perhaps its not a big thing in the remote or rural areas but silicon valley its pretty common for doctors to opt into corporate and startup roles for the bonus money they would make

What percentage of the country lives in Silicon Valley?
Do you have any business sense at all? Why do the startups hire these physicians? - precisely because they have a different expertise. Division of labor, bro.

The point being a systemic change in med ed is not going to happen.

 

[deleted103644]

Yeah, I'm getting a vibe OP doesn't understand as much about programming as he's letting on.

API is a cool buzzword to use though.

OP: check out Kaldi kaldi-asr/kaldi

Or this:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.02595v1.pdf

https://github.com/SeanNaren/deepspeech.pytorch/

 

[deleted103644]

Ding ding ding, we have a winnter!

Unless I know enough coding to break into Epic and make better templates, I fail to see how knowing the code if going to help me in the slightest in my day to day routine.

EPIC does not care as much about its user interface as a typical Silicon Valley company. Their customer base is admin, not users, so they prioritize billing, not ease of use.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

EPIC does not care as much about its user interface as a typical Silicon Valley company. Their customer base is admin, not users, so they prioritize billing, not ease of use.

I'm aware, but that's a whole different thread.

As a run of the mill non-teaching family doctor, I don't see much benefit in learning coding.

Being comfortable with computers? Obviously. Coding? Not so much.

 

[deleted103644]

Or you could be a better doctor and not let patients die?

Be real my man, the other people in the thread demonstrated they have some literacy, you sound like youre from the dark ages.

Google,facebook, things you use every day are apis. If they didnt exist you could write in binary your whole life. Feel free to check it out and see if you would be more comfortable doing that

Do you know what an API is? Google and Facebook use and provide multiple APIs, but saying they are APIs is gibberish.

And both companies care as much if not more about their user interfaces, because every additional click results in lost users and lost money. They extensively A/B test everything, even the colors they use for their logos (Facebook obsessed over its shade of blue). Google put a lot of effort into reducing the size of their logo (in bytes) to speed up loading times for their site. Many, many more examples.

User interface is incredibly important if your customer is your user. The problem with most EMRs is that the users usually have no choice, and the customers aren’t really users.

You missed the point. Its not a troll thread.
The api already exists.
Someone asked for an application, if they had some experience they could make it on their own. 20 hours may sound like alot to you but so could/would the money that follows should you chose to sell it.

I would like to see doctors be able to code because coding takes maybe a month? To get the fundamentals down, the knowledge they have takes a life time.

The experience they have is invaluable. And for the ones who are exposed to code the number of new solutions and technologies they could come up with would be insane. The problem these days is the guys writing code have no medical experience what so ever.

And as for doctors writing code, perhaps its not a big thing in the remote or rural areas but silicon valley its pretty common for doctors to opt into corporate and startup roles for the bonus money they would make

Learning to code is great. Everyone should do it. It should start in elementary school.

Want to know what’s even more important than writing code? Supporting and documenting it.

I have written plenty of one-off programs that I can barely understand years later. Anything involved in healthcare needs to be supported and documented since lives might literally be on the line, have doctors coding their own makeshift programs could lead to disaster.

It does not sound like you have any real experience in either medicine or software development.

 

[deleted103644]

I'm aware, but that's a whole different thread.

As a run of the mill non-teaching family doctor, I don't see much benefit in learning coding.

Being comfortable with computers? Obviously. Coding? Not so much.

If you ever do something as quantitative as using an Excel spreadsheet, I would recommend learning some basic programming.

Coding basic stuff is easy with plenty of great free resources available.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If you ever do something as quantitative as using an Excel spreadsheet, I would recommend learning some basic programming.

Coding basic stuff is easy with plenty of great free resources available.

I can use excel for basic calculations (I have a 2 tier RVU scale that I've set up), also not bad for budgeting. Past that, I fail to see the point - though I'd welcome an explanation for why more is useful for medicine.

 

[deleted103644]

I can use excel for basic calculations (I have a 2 tier RVU scale that I've set up), also not bad for budgeting. Past that, I fail to see the point - though I'd welcome an explanation for why more is useful for medicine.

Gene name errors are widespread in the scientific literature

 

[TeddyBears]

How about financial literacy? I see too many physicians living paycheck by paycheck nowadays

That is so true especially given all the debt and amount of energy that has to be focused on studying/professional development/training. Can lead to some pretty big blind spots around financial management etc.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Gene name errors are widespread in the scientific literature

That affects little ole family doctor me how (and more importantly, me learning to code better fixes this how)?

 

[deleted103644]

That affects little ole family doctor me how (and more importantly, me learning to code better fixes this how)?

For you? I’m sure there are ways you could streamline your practice and gain insights from the data you are generating.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

For you? I’m sure there are ways you could streamline your practice and gain insights from the data you are generating.

OK so a nebulous answer, that's about what I figured.

 

[deleted103644]

OK so a nebulous answer, that's about what I figured.

Would need to know more about your practice. Can PM if you want.

 

[NicMouse64]

OK so a nebulous answer, that's about what I figured.

I think the answer is that there are ways people outside of the system could improve your daily practice. I don't think that every doctor needs to know code, however with the stuff being taught in medical school, I bet medical schools could do a much better job of teaching the important stuff and leaving out some of the BS (do we really need to have anatomy lab practicals...?).

To some extent I kinda agree that learning 10-20 hours of coding would be beneficial for the field as we supposedly have all these really smart people in medical school. I have been able to use my coding skills to develop solutions for different healthcare issues that would be impossible without knowing coding. Maybe some of these really smart people in medical school could find solutions to our EHR nightmares that please both physicians and the corporate overlords. It also wouldn't hurt to know how mechanical some of these "algorithms" that are built into EHRs really are and why it might not always be a good idea to trust them.

TLDR; Coding is absolutely not necessary for clinical practice. But it could be something that inspires our colleagues to make physician friendly solutions.

 

[evilbooyaa]

LOL what a thread. Med school dropout comes back to let everybody know his super brilliant idea of what med school should also include.

Doctors don't need to learn how to code. The best big data research comes from collaboration with clinically trained physicians.

 

[Raney Schauer]

Learning to code is great. Everyone should do it. It should start in elementary school.

Oh yeah and OP, i did learn to code in elementary school and middle school, in the 80's when it was BASIC and COBOL and FORTRAN.

Do I use it now? No. Do I use the HTML and C and C++ I learned? No. Learned and forgotten fron disuse and apathy. and You know why. Its not how i want to live my life. One of my secondary motivations in this path and in my life is NOT having a job that's coding or doing db stuff or writing TPS reports. If thats you, cool, you be you. But dont be that CS guy that thinks everyone thats not interested in CS is an idiot loser.