Would you consider this to be discrimination?

[messenger634]

At the end of my OB/GYN clerkship, my clerkship director asked me how old I was.

"35" I told him.

He responded by stating: "you need to stop acting like a 35 year old, and start acting more like a medical student."
This appeared to be the only major criticism he had, though I'm certain it severely affected my grade.

Below is the definition from Oxford's Online Dictionary.

1 the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex:
victims of racial discrimination

What if he had said; you need to stop acting like an African-American, or, you need to stop acting like a homosexual? Would that be considered discrimination?

Please answer the poll based on my first question. Thanks

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[rodmichael82]

Grow a pair please.

 

[deleted307836]

What did he mean by that? Did he explain the comment to you?

Without more context, it is very difficult to decipher his intent and thoughts behind the comment.

 

[username456789]

At the end of my OB/GYN clerkship, my clerkship director asked me how old I was.

"35" I told him.

He responded by stating: "you need to stop acting like a 35 year old, and start acting more like a medical student."
This appeared to be the only major criticism he had, though I'm certain it severely affected my grade.

Below is the definition from Oxford's Online Dictionary.

1 the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex:
victims of racial discrimination

What if he had said; you need to stop acting like an African-American, or, you need to stop acting like a homosexual? Would that be considered discrimination?

Please answer the poll based on my first question. Thanks

Judging by the content of your post, I'm surprised your clerkship director mistook anything you ever said or did as "acting like a 35 year old."

 

[link2swim06]

What did he mean by that? Did he explain the comment to you?

Without more context, it is very difficult to decipher his intent and thoughts behind the comment.

+1 that comment makes no sense without context.

 

[messenger634]

Judging by the content of your post, I'm surprised your clerkship director mistook anything you ever said or did as "acting like a 35 year old."

I'm honestly not sure I understand. What about the content of my post do you find immature?

 

[messenger634]

Grow a pair please.

People who leave short insulting replies like this add nothing.

 

[deleted307836]

Without any more context, I would vote "maybe, but probably not" if that were a choice. Really, do you have any idea what he meant by it?

 

[messenger634]

+1 that comment makes no sense without context.

It was in my final evaluation. Honestly, I can't see a statement like that ever being justifiably made. If a behavior needs to be corrected, the behavior should be specifically addressed, and not related to some type of age, race, etc.

For example, if I was an African-American, and let's say I would (and this is a generalization) would be seen constantly talking about rap with my patients, in my final valuation it would not be appropriate to be told – "you need to stop acting like an African-American, start acting like a medical student". It would be more appropriate to state "need to stop talking about rap with your patients all the time".

 

[username456789]

I'm honestly not sure I understand. What about the content of my post do you find immature?

The beyond-absurd comparison you made substituting African-American and homosexual above.

And the fact that you had to ask this question.

I imagine you gave off a heavy "too cool for school" vibe, or something thereabouts. I knew a few of those types in med school (and I was a bit older/nontrad myself, but was never cool anyway).

 

[username456789]

For example, if I was an African-American

Jesus tapdancing Christ please stop.

 

[deleted307836]

Jesus tapdancing Christ please stop.

I don't think it's an absurd comparison. He's right that replies either insulting him or dismissing his concern in a crass manner doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

Messenger - I think you're absolutely right that specific behaviors should be addressed instead of generalizing to a trait like someone's age. It's unfortunate that was done, and I don't think you're being unreasonable by asking this question at all. There's probably not much that can be done about it, though.

 

[messenger634]

Jesus tapdancing Christ please stop.

Absolutely not. Relating somebody's behavior to age, gender, race, orientation, is unprofessional. I would never really think that I was "too cool", except that there were some doctors I got along better with others. I would like to say, and I heard this from many people I worked with, that I was excellent with patients. I never would outwardly question an attending or even a resident. I honestly think it was just age and maturity that people will caught offguard by.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

There is still no context. OP, if you were trying to boss around the attending because you were older and "more experienced" than it wasn't discrimination. If, after any criticism he offered to help you progress, you responded with, "you must think im stupid because you are racist and im African American" than him saying "stop acting African American" would be a more acceptable thing to say. Still not ok, but you are provided zero context to help us.

 

[messenger634]

I don't think it's an absurd comparison. He's right that replies either insulting him or dismissing his concern in a crass manner doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

Messenger - I think you're absolutely right that specific behaviors should be addressed instead of generalizing to a trait like someone's age. It's unfortunate that was done, and I don't think you're being unreasonable by asking this question at all. There's probably not much that can be done about it, though.

Thank you -

I just think anyone reading this should imagine themselves in a similar position. Imagine you are from Alabama and a you attend a school in California or something, and you have a conversation with a patient about – I don't know – hunting or whatever they do in Alabama. If in your final evaluation somebody said "you need to stop acting like and Alabaman and start acting more like a medical student "I think you would be very offended by that. No, nothing will happen, but it's a shame that this kind of garbage is tolerated.

 

[messenger634]

There is still no context. OP, if you were trying to boss around the attending because you were older and "more experienced" than it wasn't discrimination. If, after any criticism he offered to help you progress, you responded with, "you must think im stupid because you are racist and im African American" than him saying "stop acting African American" would be a more acceptable thing to say. Still not ok, but you are provided zero context to help us.

Understood, so it's hard for me to really even recall what the context was. It made them that I've been having a conversation with one of the attendance where they perceived that I was asking too many questions or debating them on something. To be very candid, I think some people – at least I found a medical school – interpret me to have a strong personality or be almost too comfortable with the environment. And honestly, I think some judgments are made prematurely about me. However, I've never heard anything about me showing up a resident or attending, and I've heard on multiple occasions what a good "team player" I am. For example, I always got yelled at on surgery - way more than anyone I think my classmates would be agree - but by the end of the rotation the residents in the attendings all seemed to really like me.

You know, no matter what however, you're asking about the contest – and the attending who evaluated me should've made specific reference to the context. I guess there might of been an attending or two on that service who made a judgment about me and never really had the chance to even attempt to recognize my desire to support the team and be dedicated to the patients.

 

[rodmichael82]

At the end of my OB/GYN clerkship, my clerkship director asked me how old I was.

"35" I told him.

He responded by stating: "you need to stop acting like a 35 year old, and start acting more like a medical student."

Your clerkship director is asking you to act like a medical student not an attending.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

OP just going off the quote itself it sounds like he's basically telling you to stop thinking you're hot **** just because you're older than most of the other students/residents (and possibly some attendings) and start thinking like a student who realizes that he/she is there to learn stuff from everyone else.

Echoing everyone else, proper context is needed although it seems like we're not gonna get that from you because you're really convinced this was some kind of discrimination.

 

[kedrin]

At the end of my OB/GYN clerkship, my clerkship director asked me how old I was.

"35" I told him.

He responded by stating: "you need to stop acting like a 35 year old, and start acting more like a medical student."
This appeared to be the only major criticism he had, though I'm certain it severely affected my grade.

Below is the definition from Oxford's Online Dictionary.

1 the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex:
victims of racial discrimination

What if he had said; you need to stop acting like an African-American, or, you need to stop acting like a homosexual? Would that be considered discrimination?

Please answer the poll based on my first question. Thanks

Congratulations, with this post you over shot and are now acting like a highschool kid.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Understood, so it's hard for me to really even recall what the context was. It made them that I've been having a conversation with one of the attendance where they perceived that I was asking too many questions or debating them on something. To be very candid, I think some people – at least I found a medical school – interpret me to have a strong personality or be almost too comfortable with the environment. And honestly, I think some judgments are made prematurely about me. However, I've never heard anything about me showing up a resident or attending, and I've heard on multiple occasions what a good "team player" I am. For example, I always got yelled at on surgery - way more than anyone I think my classmates would be agree - but by the end of the rotation the residents in the attendings all seemed to really like me.

You know, no matter what however, you're asking about the contest – and the attending who evaluated me should've made specific reference to the context. I guess there might of been an attending or two on that service who made a judgment about me and never really had the chance to even attempt to recognize my desire to support the team and be dedicated to the patients.

Yeah OP sounds like you're a real team player Not hard to see how this personality would easily come off as a know it all on rotations.

I spent 10 years in the 'real world' before entering this little bubble. Its a bubble that many doctors have never left - and when you combine it with the academic environment, its a sandbox.

In the real world, I did several jobs, in a number of locations and business - so much so that my classmates often joke how I've pretty much done everything. I worked in publishing, I taught abroad, I worked in the pharmaceutical industry, for a start-up, for an engineering firm, and others. I worked in each for at least 6 months, if not years. I actually did hard labor for 2 years. There I met people with more common sense and worldly knowledge than most of my medical school classmates. And most of my coworkers there were younger than my medical school classmates.

And I also spent some of time as a patient, actually.

Doctors work hard, and they are well paid. The best of them are outstanding men and woman who deserve the praise that they specifically receive. But there are few of them. Now in my 30's, I believe that the medical profession has more arrogant, childish, insecure adults than any other environment I have ever studied or worked in.

 

[messenger634]

Your clerkship director is asking you to act like a medical student not an attending.

Then he should have said that. It's just not good habit to get into generalizing people based on broad demographic categories that go outside the environment of the medical hierarchy. And still, I would say that categories and someone based on their age, is not in our society considered as egregious as categories and someone on their race, gender, or sexual orientation – which I understand and for the most part at this time except – though it is still discrimination and should be recognized as such.

Put it this way – if 25 years ago somebody had you need to stop acting like you're gay or something in the final evaluation, nothing would come of it. But today that director could probably be fired.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Are you roadlesstravel's cousin or something?

Anyways, if you don't know what he was referencing then I would just ask him "what do you mean by not acting 35" and have him give you more concrete examples. As others have stated, it probably means you were acting uppity/cocky or disconnected from the situation at hand.

 

[messenger634]

Yeah OP sounds like you're a real team player Not hard to see how this personality would easily come off as a know it all on rotations.

I completely agree with everything you've quoted me on. There are very few people in any field that will act that way. But yes, there are more in medicine that I've ever seen. And the director I discussed above is a perfect example. And yes, I get along very well with my classmates and they've always had a good time with me and appreciated my input on rotations.

To bring my two points together – there are a number of doctors I have seen unfortunately, that fit the type of description of the second quote that you quoted me on above. I usually manage my relationships and work experience with them to as optimally as possible – though there maybe was nothing I could've done with my OB rotation.

 

[messenger634]

Are you roadlesstravel's cousin or something?

Anyways, if you don't know what he was referencing then I would just ask him "what do you mean by not acting 35" and have him give you more concrete examples. As others have stated, it probably means you were acting uppity/cocky or disconnected from the situation at hand.

I hear you, but I was just so surprised that the time or we know what to say.

Let me say this. I did the rotation with another classmate. After our midterm evaluations, as we walked to the cars to head down to the school to do the afternoon teaching, she was in tears. She said "he kept using the phrase learning disability".

I made sure that I stopped on the way to get her a sandwhich with her favorite cookies to eat for lunch.

 

[deleted307836]

I hear you, but I was just so surprised that the time or we know what to say.

Let me say this. I did the rotation with another classmate. After our midterm evaluations, as we walked to the cars to head down to the school to do the afternoon teaching, she was in tears. She said "he kept using the phrase learning disability".

I made sure that I stopped on the way to get her a sandwhich with her favorite cookies to eat for lunch.

Something like that should probably be reported to student affairs - that is getting into the territory of verbal abuse.

 

[rodmichael82]

Then he should have said that. It's just not good habit to get into generalizing people based on broad demographic categories that go outside the environment of the medical hierarchy. And still, I would say that categories and someone based on their age, is not in our society considered as egregious as categories and someone on their race, gender, or sexual orientation – which I understand and for the most part at this time except – though it is still discrimination and should be recognized as such.

Put it this way – if 25 years ago somebody had you need to stop acting like you're gay or something in the final evaluation, nothing would come of it. But today that director could probably be fired.

Here's the problem with your issue. You are trying to classify age as a group or category equivalent to race, gender and sexual orientation. You can't do that.

Someone asking you to please stop acting your age is not discriminating against you. He's clearly telling you that you're acting like a "know it all".

Am I supposed to sue my boss for saying hey rodmichael82 you look like an 18 year old, or someone saying hey man stop acting like you're 40. That is completely different from someone saying I look gay or stop acting gay.

Loosen up dude, you can't live life this uptight.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I hear you, but I was just so surprised that the time or we know what to say.

Let me say this. I did the rotation with another classmate. After our midterm evaluations, as we walked to the cars to head down to the school to do the afternoon teaching, she was in tears. She said "he kept using the phrase learning disability".

I made sure that I stopped on the way to get her a sandwhich with her favorite cookies to eat for lunch.

Yeah now that's actually a pretty concrete example of verbal abuse...I'd be reporting that as well.

Sounds like the dude is just an a**hole all around.

 

[messenger634]

Something like that should probably be reported to student affairs - that is getting into the territory of verbal abuse.

Well, I agree. I completely agree.

 

[messenger634]

Here's the problem with your issue. You are trying to classify age as a group or category equivalent to race, gender and sexual orientation. You can't do that.

Someone asking you to please stop acting your age is not discriminating against you. He's clearly telling you that you're acting like a "know it all".

Am I supposed to sue my boss for saying hey rodmichael82 you look like an 18 year old, or someone saying hey man stop acting like you're 40. That is completely different from someone saying I look gay or stop acting gay.

Loosen up dude, you can't live life this uptight.

You know, I don't think we realize how selective we need to be with our words. And consider that just because it's not particularly fashionable to be upset about some forms of generalizations over others, doesn't mean that the people who are the product of them aren't bothered by it.

 

[yehhhboiii]

it's funny because on this thread, you need to start acting like a 35 year old

 

[rodmichael82]

it's funny because on this thread, you need to start acting like a 35 year old

LOL seriously.

 

[messenger634]

it's funny because on this thread, you need to start acting like a 35 year old

I would say I've been debating and discussing, in a civil manner, with those that both do and don't support my views. I'm agreeing on points with those I agree with, even if they come from those that don't agree with me on my major points. I have neither lashed out at anyone or made short insulting passive-agressive statements, while accepting criticism and making progress toward a better understanding of the situation.

I could have replied to your post with a short statement like "thanks for your input", or "you obviously don't get it", or something like that – but I hope I'm responding in a thoughtful thorough manner, because that's what I'm trying to do.

 

[JP2740]

In general, you need to just shut up during your rotation if you disagree with something or you hear something wrong. For example, on rounds, I've heard residents make mistakes or not know something, etc. After rounds I might go to them individually, in front of no one else, and tell them something I saw in the patient chart, or tell them that some lab actually was drawn or an ekg was there so it doesn't look like I'm stepping on their toes in front of the attending.

Any little task a resident wants, do it for them. I think it's ridiculous to think there's a task that's too low for a medical student. If you don't do it, the resident will have to do it. Help the team out, never say no. Never make your residents look bad, but it's ok to talk to them individually later about something you either "want to clarify" that they said (not correcting them), or something he had wrong about the patient that you want to let him know so the patient care doesn't suffer, but you dont look like a jackass.

Have fun with the run on sentences above. Either way, I don't know what context they told you in. But you MAY have been overstepping your bounds. Yea you may be 35 and I guess he shouldn't have mentioned it, but many students are guilty of acting like they're above their rank, he just mentioned your age with it. I don't think it's that big of a deal... and it's kind of like you need to be able to deal with those little comments sometimes with some guts because the environment you're in isn't exactly stress-less.

It may totally be discrimination on your age, but I think it's more likely that you may have been turning people off with your attitude and he happened to mention your age. This isn't like calling someone out for being born of a certain race or being gay. It could be a valid complaint that you're acting like your older, wiser, better than your residents. It isn't a valid complaint to say "stop being so black" lol.

One of our "grading points" clinically is receptive to criticism. There's a reason why the person said what he/she said. I don't think he/she saw a 35 year old and said "i'm gonna **** with this person based on this student's age." It's absolutely a possibility, I just personally don't think it was that case from the outside looking in. Be receptive to this criticism. A very appropriate response would be to say "can you clarify what you mean? How can I improve in your eyes?" And after he/she gives the response, if it seems more like valid criticism as said above you could respond with "I'm very sorry I didn't mean to project myself in that sense. I was trying to ________, but I could see how that can be annoying, etc. Thank you for enlightening me on this so I won't do it on the next rotation."

Stuff like that. It's not even kissing ass. In a month's time, it's hard for people to truly know each other and our intentions, and it can be a stressful environment. There will be some miscommunication and misunderstanding.

 

[JP2740]

I hear you, but I was just so surprised that the time or we know what to say.

Let me say this. I did the rotation with another classmate. After our midterm evaluations, as we walked to the cars to head down to the school to do the afternoon teaching, she was in tears. She said "he kept using the phrase learning disability".

I made sure that I stopped on the way to get her a sandwhich with her favorite cookies to eat for lunch.

That sounds pretty bad. I didn't read this before my post, but I think my points still stand.

 

[Kal EI]

Here's the problem with your issue. You are trying to classify age as a group or category equivalent to race, gender and sexual orientation. You can't do that.

Someone asking you to please stop acting your age is not discriminating against you. He's clearly telling you that you're acting like a "know it all".

Am I supposed to sue my boss for saying hey rodmichael82 you look like an 18 year old, or someone saying hey man stop acting like you're 40. That is completely different from someone saying I look gay or stop acting gay.

Loosen up dude, you can't live life this uptight.

I see both sides here.

On one side, age is a protected class - just like race or gender. Technically you aren't supposed to discriminate because of age. (edit: I guess age isn't a protected class until you hit 40)

On the other side, having an attitude that doctors can be arrogant and childish (let's set aside whether or not it's true) can easily be interpreted by others and lead to a poor eval.

So adding some humility from the students side and some sensitivity from the attending side could help. Evals are always biased though - age, race, personality, good looks, etc. All the objectivity in the eval is seen through a discriminatory lens.

Have fun with the run on sentences above. Either way, I don't know what context they told you in. But you MAY have been overstepping your bounds. Yea you may be 35 and I guess he shouldn't have mentioned it, but many students are guilty of acting like they're above their rank, he just mentioned your age with it. I don't think it's that big of a deal... and it's kind of like you need to be able to deal with those little comments sometimes with some guts because the environment you're in isn't exactly stress-less.

It may totally be discrimination on your age, but I think it's more likely that you may have been turning people off with your attitude and he happened to mention your age. This isn't like calling someone out for being born of a certain race or being gay. It could be a valid complaint that you're acting like your older, wiser, better than your residents. It isn't a valid complaint to say "stop being so black" lol.

I agree with the bolded.

 

[mvenus929]

Then he should have said that. It's just not good habit to get into generalizing people based on broad demographic categories that go outside the environment of the medical hierarchy. And still, I would say that categories and someone based on their age, is not in our society considered as egregious as categories and someone on their race, gender, or sexual orientation – which I understand and for the most part at this time except – though it is still discrimination and should be recognized as such.

I agree that he should have phrased his concerns better, but I disagree that what he was saying was discrimination. And I do not think in this context that age is equivalent to race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Let me say this. I did the rotation with another classmate. After our midterm evaluations, as we walked to the cars to head down to the school to do the afternoon teaching, she was in tears. She said "he kept using the phrase learning disability".

This, on the other hand, is blatant abuse, and should be reported to student affairs. After knowing this, I'm not surprised that he phrased his concerns poorly, and I think it likely he does this to other students.

 

[messenger634]

I see both sides here.

On one side, age is a protected class - just like race or gender. Technically you aren't supposed to discriminate because of age. (edit: I guess age isn't a protected class until you hit 40)

On the other side, having an attitude that doctors can be arrogant and childish (let's set aside whether or not it's true) can easily be interpreted by others and lead to a poor eval.

So adding some humility from the students side and some sensitivity from the attending side could help. Evals are always biased though - age, race, personality, good looks, etc. All the objectivity in the eval is seen through a discriminatory lens.



I agree with the bolded.

The thing is, some people have absolutely loved me on rotations. But other people just haven't at all. Some people judged me right away I felt. The funny thing is, on the same rotation my GYN preceptor told me that she had never seen her patients so comfortable with a male medical student then when she had entered the room after I had interviewed them.

I could say a lot more about this rotation, but I'd rather keep the details and additional information somewhat anonymous.

 

[Kal EI]

The thing is, some people have absolutely loved me on rotations. But other people just haven't at all. Some people judged me right away I felt. The funny thing is, on the same rotation my GYN preceptor told me that she had never seen her patients so comfortable with a male medical student then when she had entered the room after I had interviewed them.

I could say a lot more about this rotation, but I'd rather keep the details and additional information somewhat anonymous.

Yeah, I think that's just human nature though. Just suck it up and move on. Try to be humble, understand you're the lowest on the totem pole, and try to learn something from everyone.

But yeah, brush this off and move on.

Good luck.

 

[PrideNeverDie]

attendings expect naive medical students to suck up to them and validate their narcissism. if you have any real world experience, it is easy to see through the BS and mock it. you need to realize that you will be seen as a threat so sometimes you gotta keep your mouth shut and go through the motions.

 

[messenger634]

Yeah, I think that's just human nature though. Just suck it up and move on. Try to be humble, understand you're the lowest on the totem pole, and try to learn something from everyone.

But yeah, brush this off and move on.

Good luck.

Agreed. I'm sure I will end up in a residency program where I (and them) can be more selective to have a place to fit in well with. I hope to be less and less in positions like this with people like this.

 

[messenger634]

attendings expect naive medical students to suck up to them and validate their narcissism. if you have any real world experience, it is easy to see through the BS and mock it. you need to realize that you will be seen as a threat so sometimes you gotta keep your mouth shut and go through the motions.

This is certainly the case sometimes.

 

[Houmd]

whether this is or isn't the case with you, I have noticed several "older" medical students that for some reason LOVE to point out their age or how much older they are than everyone around them. As medical students we tend to see you guys as other medical students, while you may look around and feel out of place the vast majority of us consider you to be exactly like us, at the bottom of the totem pole. Since there is a clear defined hierarchy in medicine it is easy to see yourself as above or more experienced than some resident in his 20's or young attending when they look at you exactly the same as a 21yr old medical student. My best advice here is to accept that you are in fact in the same boat as that 21yr old medical student and consider yourself to be the bottom and as humble as possible, even if it makes you feel like you're shorting yourself. This is especially true for seemingly meaningless tasks that a resident may ask you to do (eg. fetch labs, etc). Remember that in medicine you are not judged by your chronological age, but rather by your age starting from med school, you are either a med student, a pgy, or an attending. That's it. So if you're an 82yr old medical student, you're still below a PGY-1 always.

 

[razor]

The evaluator is obviously referring to "maturity" with his age comment. Something he's well within his rights to "judge" you on. It's not even close to the equivalent of judging you on color of your skin. It would be out of line for him to say you're too old to handle this or something along those lines.

 

[JourneyAgent]

attendings expect naive medical students to suck up to them and validate their narcissism. if you have any real world experience, it is easy to see through the BS and mock it. you need to realize that you will be seen as a threat so sometimes you gotta keep your mouth shut and go through the motions.

This is right on point. And illustrates the predicament precisely. Although I would expand the theory to anyone who has a natural heretical disposition old or young. But yes it's doubly important to hide yourself and your feelings. Medical hierarchy has a bloodhound's nose for heretics. And as we must traverse a vast Balkanized landscape of cultish fiefdoms where the dominant theology is the egoism of whatever attending/warlord holds sway--it becomes tricky to navigate unless you are covert.

I'm Bambi like. Often sincerely because my respect for clinical knowledge and fear or inheriting its responsibility is very real. But in the instances where I've seen plainly through a pointless process of ego massaging my superiors I make like good little ***** and start stroking. Because I've passed a quarter mil in the hole and the end of turning tricks is no where insight.

And I'm not letting anybody have a shot at sinking me.

Some of the older of us are even more naive. Because they don't seem to realize that without board certification we're better off dead to our loved ones with this debt. There's no say in any of it till we have a license and are bc'd.

I've had considerable trouble trying to counter this notion of exceptionalism for older med students and premeds on the nontrad board and have hung up my hat realizing I don't care anymore about it.

The OP will figure it out or not. And maybe be fine either way or maybe piss the wrong person off. To each his own.

In response to houmd, I'm probably guilty of that. I'd like to see any of you f'ers doing this when you're 40. We may be the same on the field but off, I was hustling on my own before most of you busted your first nut. So yeah, we're not the same, in many respects. No better no worse. But check me on that when you're my age and think about starting over again as a clerk. Eventually, you'll understand what that means.

No, OP. This is not discrimination. Or if it is, the whole thing could be described as such.

 

[messenger634]

This is right on point. And illustrates the predicament precisely. Although I would expand the theory to anyone who has a natural heretical disposition old or young. But yes it's doubly important to hide yourself and your feelings. Medical hierarchy has a bloodhound's nose for heretics. And as we must traverse a vast Balkanized landscape of cultish fiefdoms where the dominant theology is the egoism of whatever attending/warlord holds sway--it becomes tricky to navigate unless you are covert.

I'm Bambi like. Often sincerely because my respect for clinical knowledge and fear or inheriting its responsibility is very real. But in the instances where I've seen plainly through a pointless process of ego massaging my superiors I make like good little ***** and start stroking. Because I've passed a quarter mil in the hole and the end of turning tricks is no where insight.

And I'm not letting anybody have a shot at sinking me.

Some of the older of us are even more naive. Because they don't seem to realize that without board certification we're better off dead to our loved ones with this debt. There's no say in any of it till we have a license and are bc'd.

I've had considerable trouble trying to counter this notion of exceptionalism for older med students and premeds on the nontrad board and have hung up my hat realizing I don't care anymore about it.

The OP will figure it out or not. And maybe be fine either way or maybe piss the wrong person off. To each his own.

In response to houmd, I'm probably guilty of that. I'd like to see any of you f'ers doing this when you're 40. We may be the same on the field but off, I was hustling on my own before most of you busted your first nut. So yeah, we're not the same, in many respects. No better no worse. But check me on that when you're my age and think about starting over again as a clerk. Eventually, you'll understand what that means.

No, OP. This is not discrimination. Or if it is, the whole thing could be described as such.

Nicely written, and I generally agree. Though I do think it's discrimination. It may not be as strong as the other types we generally label that as, but I think it is. At the very least, it's terribly sloppy of him to make a statement like that, and it shows very little thought and reflects very narrow expectations.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Nicely written, and I generally agree. Though I do think it's discrimination. It may not be as strong as the other types we generally label that as, but I think it is. At the very least, it's terribly sloppy of him to make a statement like that, and it shows very little thought and reflects very narrow expectations.

Yes. A more masterful practitioner of the art of war would've legitimized his random subjectivity into a scientificy sounding office speak. What of it.

You pursue it to your own demise. You note it to your own dissatisfaction.

Roll with it. Go somewhere special in your head as you pass out the free handjobs. It's amazing what you can get used to right?

 

[Anastomoses]

Here's the reality.

If you're a girl and you show sensitivity or you cry or whatever, a stupid person will make the immediate association that she needs to stop acting like such a girl.

If you are acting like a know-it-all and you come off smug or assertive in the way you ask questions or perform, instead of just addressing your attitude...because you may well have been the exact same way when you were 25, a simple person will associate it with your age.

If you use slick slang chill language and you happen to be black, such a person may associate it with your race - even tho thousands of Asians, whites, or whoever might be using those same slang terms all the time.

This resident is clearly a simple mind to reference your age. Most people are like this even when they don't say it aloud.

On top of that, he's clearly sadistic + lashing out if he's telling the other med student she's learning disabled. His overall nastiness needs to be addressed.

 

[alpinism]

I hear you, but I was just so surprised that the time or we know what to say.

Let me say this. I did the rotation with another classmate. After our midterm evaluations, as we walked to the cars to head down to the school to do the afternoon teaching, she was in tears. She said "he kept using the phrase learning disability".

I made sure that I stopped on the way to get her a sandwhich with her favorite cookies to eat for lunch.

Something like that should probably be reported to student affairs - that is getting into the territory of verbal abuse.

Yeah now that's actually a pretty concrete example of verbal abuse...I'd be reporting that as well.

Sounds like the dude is just an a**hole all around.

This, on the other hand, is blatant abuse, and should be reported to student affairs. After knowing this, I'm not surprised that he phrased his concerns poorly, and I think it likely he does this to other students.

On top of that, he's clearly sadistic + lashing out if he's telling the other med student she's learning disabled. His overall nastiness needs to be addressed.

Would you rather he used the term retarted?

As with the OP's original post, we have no context for the above comments. Hell, he could have been talking about ADHD or trying to figure out why the student was doing very poorly on exams. Using the phrase learning disability in a sentence (which is all we know) is not a violation of the school's code of conduct.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The thing is, some people have absolutely loved me on rotations. But other people just haven't at all. Some people judged me right away I felt.

I'd recommend trying to take your ego out of the equation a bit and try and figure out for yourself what exactly your preceptor was implying. This requires an assumption that you seem unwilling to make, which is that he was trying to give you constructive criticism.

It seems like from your posts there is an inconsistency in how you are viewed by your evaluators.

If your goal is to improve your evaluations and clinical performance in third year, you should be asking yourself why that is. Your preceptor (from the limited perspective we have here based on your posts) seems to be offering a possible reason and lots of posters in this thread have given you some potential interpretations of that feedback. Instead of getting offended, it might be worth some self examination.

If your goal is to fight the man/power/system...well, have fun.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Take it from our residents, whom I give automatic respect. One working girl to another. So that before she fades from chasing the dragon inside the fluorescent submarine, for all her waking hours of the week, a survival ethic on the mean streets of medicine, might get passed from her lips as I light her cigarette.

She never once talked about her civil rights.

I once sat in huge grand rounds with all the ceremony for a visiting grand wizard to our priesthood. It was a talk on the conjuring technique of evaluating residents. The opening incantation pertaining to just how amazing the inherent powers of an experienced wizard are at divining the precise magical status of each residents in seconds using The Power of the All-Knowing Eye.

A half joking question was uttered sideways from the wizards mouth as she peered into the frightened heads of all the residents, "how many of you doubt the power of the All-Knowing Eye?" Not a peep. Or a squeak.

Doubting the power of these magical processes is resented with great ferocity by the magical presithood. If you can intervene surreptitiously at some other depersonalized point in the process you might consider it. But even that, you do at your own risk.

The main goal of being a clerk is recruiting support. I can't think of any use of being right outside of being pimped. And even with that there is ego egg shells to be skirted.