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biocmp

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Just wondering if you all have any qualms about referring a patient to see a chiropractor. I am about to go see one in a couple weeks, to see if it relieves any of my back pain. Didn't know what your experiences are?
 

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biocmp said:
Just wondering if you all have any qualms about referring a patient to see a chiropractor. I am about to go see one in a couple weeks, to see if it relieves any of my back pain. Didn't know what your experiences are?
biocmp, I've been going to a DC for several years. I think they work in the short run. When my back or neck is hurting, I go get adjusted. The main thing is most of the remedies are short lived. You have to make lifestyle changes and other things to truly relieve back pain. Hope this helps.
 

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It would depend on the problems facing the patient. I believe that some things may be fixed to a certain degree with such treatment. Think about it, the processes that make the body work and move are both chemical and mechanical. It makes sense that some mechanical treatments could alleviate certain problems.
 
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biocmp said:
Just wondering if you all have any qualms about referring a patient to see a chiropractor. I am about to go see one in a couple weeks, to see if it relieves any of my back pain. Didn't know what your experiences are?
I'd refer my back pain patients to an Osteopathic Physician that specializes in osteopathic manipulative therapy.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
I'd refer my back pain patients to an Osteopathic Physician that specializes in osteopathic manipulative therapy.
Agreed. I have limited respect for chiropracters (sp?) and get extremely annoyed with their constant advertisements saying "Dr.___." (Note: not all of them do this but 99% of the ones I've seen certainly do). Feeding off of the public's ignorance...errrrr. :mad:

If you have a musculoskeletal issue, I'd HIGHLY recommend you go see a DO who specializes in OMM/OPP. G'luck.
 

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I agree with Praetorian. I would recommend seeing a DO for virtually any kind of musculoskeletal pain. I work with DOs and have been the grateful recipient of OMM. The op asked specifically, however, about chiropractors, which I do not know much about. That being said, why would someone want go to a chiropractor instead of a fully licensed physician who has special training and knowledge regarding such problems?
 

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Im not a physician, but I think a DO would be the way to go. It is possible that your back pain is due to some other problem besides tight muscles and a DC is not liscsened to prescribe medication or preform other medical procedures. A DO could send you in the correct direction if this is the case. I dont think chiropractors are likely to refer you for further help because they want to keep your buisness. Just my thoughts.
 

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Since I want to become a DO that includes OMM in my scope of practice, I would hopefully be able to help them myself;) that being said, I've gone to a chiropractor since I was very young and I always feel great afterwards, although I've never been because of a specific back problem. I know that HVLA neck adjustments are controversial, but I've never had a headache that couldn't be fixed through an cervical adjustment (not even trying to say that this will work for every condition/case)

There are a lot of bad chiropractors out there, but if you can find one that is honest and provides treatment you would feel safe with, I don't see why referring out to one for a "simple" backproblem that you have diagnosed as purely mechanical would be a too bad...
 

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Not to hijack, but is there a database of DO's that practice OMM?

I ruptured a disc in my lower back a few years ago, and I still have quite a bit of lower back "discomfort", especially if I attempt to jog for more than a block. I have mixed feelings about seeing a DC, however, I've had zero luck locating a DO that practices OMM.
 

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http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=findado_main
osteo manipulative medicine
family practice/OMM

might help

Pose said:
Not to hijack, but is there a database of DO's that practice OMM?

I ruptured a disc in my lower back a few years ago, and I still have quite a bit of lower back "discomfort", especially if I attempt to jog for more than a block. I have mixed feelings about seeing a DC, however, I've had zero luck locating a DO that practices OMM.
 

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I found this on chrioweb.com and I think it provides some insight into the mind of some of the DCs on the site.

"All you ever wanted to know about chiropractors . . .
By David Leprich

Anyone perusing the letters to the Medical Post will get a sense of the state of affairs between doctors and chiropractors. But if we set aside the emotion and become rational and objective, there are several facts that rise to the surface.

Many Canadians who visit chiropractors describe benefits, including reduced symptoms and increased function. Many doctors refer patients to chiropractors with confidence and satisfaction. Still, we see negative comments in the press about chiropractors, which perpetuate myths no more true than many of the myths people hold about the medical profession.

Chiropractors have not done a good job of telling doctors what we do. What follows are some of the more common questions raised about chiropractic and some of the facts surrounding these issues:

What kind of education and training do chiropractors receive?

Many doctors believe chiropractors are not well-trained. Chiropractors are educated as primary contact health-care providers with an emphasis on neurological and musculo-skeletal diagnosis and treatment. Preparation for the practice of chiropractic focuses on basic training in the biological and health sciences, specialized training in the discipline of chiropractic, and extensive clinical training. Becoming a chiropractor in Canada requires a minimum of six years of post-secondary education, including 4,500 hours of classroom and clinical instruction at an institution approved by the Council on Chiropractic Education, Canada.

Is chiropractic regulated?

Like medicine and dentistry, chiropractic is a self-regulating profession. In all provinces, licence requirements include a minimum of two years pre-professional university study and graduation from an accredited chiropractic college, which requires an additional four or five years of study.

What do chiropractors treat?

Chiropractors are experts trained in the diagnosis and treatment of the neurological and musculoskeletal systems. They treat disorders of the spine and its associated nervous system, as well as the peripheral joints by adjusting (manipulating) these articulations. Chiropractic treatment is a conservative means of managing a variety of disorders, including back and neck pain and headache. These conditions are representative of 90% of chiropractic treatment. The vast majority of chiropractors employ manual manipulation. They also employ treatment modalities (ultrasound) and soft tissue techniques and provide advice on exercise, nutrition and lifestyle modification. The emphasis is on involving the patient as a participant in their care.

Is chiropractic scientific?

What began as a poorly understood form of treatment more than 100 years ago has evolved into a healing discipline firmly grounded in science. Few other health-care interventions have been as extensively assessed as chiropractic manipulation. There have been at least six formal government inquiries into chiropractic worldwide. Each has concluded chiropractic care is safe and effective. Numerous clinical studies, including randomized controlled trials, attest to the appropriateness of chiropractic care or spinal manipulation, particularly for low back pain.

Is there a risk of stroke associated with neck manipulation?

In a word, yes. However, the risk is extremely remote, about the same as the risk from natural neck movements such as turning the head to back up while driving or tilting the neck back for hair washing. There are good studies which demonstrate the risk to be on the order of one occurrence per one million treatments. To put this in perspective, the risk of serious complication or even death (on a percentage basis) attributed to the use of NSAIDS for neck pain is far greater.

Why do chiropractors treat children?

The basic biological and physiological sciences which guide the treatment of adults apply equally to children. Chiropractic treatment is as beneficial for children as it is for adults, for the same conditions and for the same reasons. The scientific literature shows that low back pain is very prevalent among school children. A 1992 study published in the American Journal of Public Health found the prevalence of low back pain in children up to age 15 is more than 36%. This study concluded low back pain in adolescents is a serious public health problem.

Through periodic spinal examination, chiropractors can detect clues to possible postural problems which may predispose children to later neurological and musculoskeletal problems. Early detection and/or treatment, including referral, can minimize the potential impact of such conditions.

Do chiropractors refer patients to medical doctors?

As part of their training and education, chiropractors are able to recognize risk factors for treatment and disease patterns which require medical attention. Chiropractors do not hesitate to refer when it is in the patient's best interest. Unfortunately, all too often the medical practitioner is unwilling to accept such referrals.

Do medical doctors refer patients to chiropractors?

Absolutely. Recent studies show the majority of medical practitioners in Canada refer patients to chiropractors for the treatment of musculoskeletal conditions. For example, a 1995 study reported in Canadian Family Physician found almost 60% of Canadian medical doctors perceived chiropractic care as "useful" or "very useful" and more than 83% had referred patients to chiropractors.

Do chiropractors take a proper health history?

During the first visit, prior to any treatment, chiropractors are obliged to take a detailed health history. This includes details about lifestyle and risk factors to give the chiropractor a full picture of the patient's health.

Why do patients need to receive treatment so often?

Since chiropractic care is a hands-on treatment modality, the patient needs to physically be in the office for treatment. In contrast, a course of medical treatment may include the use of antibiotics daily for two weeks. Despite the oft-repeated myth that chiropractors "keep you going for the rest of your life," the average number of annual visits per patient is eight. Is every patient's treatment the same?

Chiropractors, like medical doctors, follow generally accepted protocols and guidelines. Treatment is specific to the condition diagnosed by the chiropractor. Spinal manipulation may well be performed on a majority of patients, but nature and location of the spinal adjustment will be directed to that patient's specific needs.

Why refer to a chiropractor when a physiotherapist can do the same job?

Chiropractors are recognized by legislation as primary contact professionals in all jurisdictions in Canada. Physiotherapists are not. Chiropractors are trained to perform differential diagnosis. Physiotherapists are not. Physiotherapists are not trained to take and interpret X-rays. Chiropractors are. Chiropractors are highly trained in the application and recognition of contraindications to spinal manipulation.

Can a medical doctor be sued for referring a patient to a chiropractor?

No more or less than a doctor can be sued for a referral of a patient to a hospital for an X-ray study. Each medical doctor and chiropractor is held to his/her standard of care and cannot be held liable for the actions of another provider that has his/her own standards.

Is there anything else I should know?

You are probably aware that many of your patients are already receiving chiropractic care. You can ignore this, or even attempt to discourage it, but they will still go. It would be far more productive for you, as a concerned physician, to talk to your patient about who they see. This will tell you a lot more about what benefits they are receiving, how the local chiropractor works and what sort of conditions are being treated. Better yet, if you have specific questions or concerns, why not take call the chiropractor? Most chiropractors would be happy to spend a few minutes telling you what they do. The information you garner can only be of benefit to your patients.

David Leprich is chairman of the board of governors of the Canadian Chiropractic Association. "
 

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DOCTORSAIB said:
Agreed. I have limited respect for chiropracters (sp?) and get extremely annoyed with their constant advertisements saying "Dr.___." (Note: not all of them do this but 99% of the ones I've seen certainly do). Feeding off of the public's ignorance...errrrr. :mad:

If you have a musculoskeletal issue, I'd HIGHLY recommend you go see a DO who specializes in OMM/OPP. G'luck.

But why would a chiro referring to themselves as "Dr.____" be upsetting? Chiropractors are doctors, just not doctors of medicine. The title of Doctor doesn't belong to just one profession.

I am a Chiropractor and a med student. There are good chiros and bad ones, just like in any other profession. I hope you get the help you need :)
 
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hokte said:
But why would a chiro referring to themselves as "Dr.____" be upsetting? Chiropractors are doctors, just not doctors of medicine. The title of Doctor doesn't belong to just one profession.

I am a Chiropractor and a med student. There are good chiros and bad ones, just like in any other profession. I hope you get the help you need :)
Look, I poke fun at my profession a lot but as far as manipulative skill, there are no comparisons. Even a D.O. who manipulates does not do it as much so it would be fair to say that their skill level may not be as good as a well qualified, EB/NMS chiropractor. Manipulation is a hands on skill and not for the hobbyist physician who does it every now and again. Having said that, I'd tell you to see a D.O. also b/c of the meds situation, why see two docs? Manipulation is beneficial but certainly limited, and in my experience has limited ability to alleviate pain to the expected level/quickness that most back pain sufferers demand. A comprehensive approach of meds/manipulation/physical therapy is the best answer...any one without the other is of limited benefit.

As far as being a "Dr."...c'mon. Of course chiropractors can call themselves Doctor...it's a degree (get over it). We are NOT physicians and that restriction I believe is appropriate but anyone earning the professional/academic doctorate certainly is worthy and obliged to use the title. Myself? I actually don't use the title, I just introduce myself and say I'm a chiropractor...that way there's no confusion but I work with D.O. gp and soon a surgeon. Others introduce me as Dr. so and so but that's their perogitive I don't request it. The title became much less significant after the first day on the job.
 

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chirodoc said:
Look, I poke fun at my profession a lot but as far as manipulative skill, there are no comparisons. Even a D.O. who manipulates does not do it as much so it would be fair to say that their skill level may not be as good as a well qualified, EB/NMS chiropractor. Manipulation is a hands on skill and not for the hobbyist physician who does it every now and again. Having said that, I'd tell you to see a D.O. also b/c of the meds situation, why see two docs? Manipulation is beneficial but certainly limited, and in my experience has limited ability to alleviate pain to the expected level/quickness that most back pain sufferers demand. A comprehensive approach of meds/manipulation/physical therapy is the best answer...any one without the other is of limited benefit.

As far as being a "Dr."...c'mon. Of course chiropractors can call themselves Doctor...it's a degree (get over it). We are NOT physicians and that restriction I believe is appropriate but anyone earning the professional/academic doctorate certainly is worthy and obliged to use the title. Myself? I actually don't use the title, I just introduce myself and say I'm a chiropractor...that way there's no confusion but I work with D.O. gp and soon a surgeon. Others introduce me as Dr. so and so but that's their perogitive I don't request it. The title became much less significant after the first day on the job.
DO's who specialize in OMM perform their skills just as much as chiropractors. This is who we are talking about. They have more medical education, and would thus make a more competent physician that can treat all of your ailments.
 

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Why do some DCs claim to practice chiropractic medicine? I see it a lot on chiroweb.com
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
DO's who specialize in OMM perform their skills just as much as chiropractors. This is who we are talking about. They have more medical education, and would thus make a more competent physician that can treat all of your ailments.

I'm sure you can find more DC performing their skills each day easier than finding DO's who do. But for those who do, it would be more convient for the patient to just have one Dr. You could get meds and manipulation in just one stop.

More education doesn't automatically make you a better practitioner. It does however, make you look very desirable on paper.
 

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USCguy said:
Since I want to become a DO that includes OMM in my scope of practice, I would hopefully be able to help them myself;) that being said, I've gone to a chiropractor since I was very young and I always feel great afterwards, although I've never been because of a specific back problem. I know that HVLA neck adjustments are controversial, but I've never had a headache that couldn't be fixed through an cervical adjustment (not even trying to say that this will work for every condition/case)

There are a lot of bad chiropractors out there, but if you can find one that is honest and provides treatment you would feel safe with, I don't see why referring out to one for a "simple" backproblem that you have diagnosed as purely mechanical would be a too bad...
How is this controversial? Care to elaborate?
 

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biocmp said:
Just wondering if you all have any qualms about referring a patient to see a chiropractor. I am about to go see one in a couple weeks, to see if it relieves any of my back pain. Didn't know what your experiences are?

I don't think I would refer one. But, I wouldn't tell a patient to stop seeing one if it's working for them either. If they asked me my opinion, I would tell them that my personal experience was negative and that I wouldn't go back to one.
 

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I'd refer the patient to physical therapy. The DC will perform some adjustments but will not help the patient reinforce the anatomy in question with strengthening exercises. For example, if your SI joint is causing you some low back/hip/leg pain a chiropractor can adjust the joint for you but a physical therapist will not only readjust the joint but will also get you on an exercise protocol that will reinforce your SI joint with stronger muscles--a long term treatment.
 

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indo said:
I'd refer the patient to physical therapy. The DC will perform some adjustments but will not help the patient reinforce the anatomy in question with strengthening exercises. For example, if your SI joint is causing you some low back/hip/leg pain a chiropractor can adjust the joint for you but a physical therapist will not only readjust the joint but will also get you on an exercise protocol that will reinforce your SI joint with stronger muscles--a long term treatment.

This is an incorrect statement, there are many, many DC's who incorporate physical therapy as an adjunct to manipulation. The DC I was employed by before going to school myself, had a state of the art exercise facility that was utilized by patients after adjustments. This of course was under supervision of PT's or others trained to help them carry out the exercise protocol. The Chiropractic profession is just as varied as any other profession, every doc doesn't practice the same.
 

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chirodoc said:
As far as being a "Dr."...c'mon. Of course chiropractors can call themselves Doctor...it's a degree (get over it). We are NOT physicians and that restriction I believe is appropriate but anyone earning the professional/academic doctorate certainly is worthy and obliged to use the title. Myself? I actually don't use the title, I just introduce myself and say I'm a chiropractor...that way there's no confusion but I work with D.O. gp and soon a surgeon. Others introduce me as Dr. so and so but that's their perogitive I don't request it. The title became much less significant after the first day on the job.
Here in Nebraska DCs are able to refer to themselves as "Chiropractic Physicians" and on the Nebraska Chiropractic Physicians Association website there is a section on "Family Care - Will you be our Family Doctor?" Across the river in Iowa, Chiropractors can perform althetic physicals for middle/high school students !
 

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nebrfan said:
Here in Nebraska DCs are able to refer to themselves as "Chiropractic Physicians" and on the Nebraska Chiropractic Physicians Association website there is a section on "Family Care - Will you be our Family Doctor?" Across the river in Iowa, Chiropractors can perform althetic physicals for middle/high school students !
It' s the same in Oklahoma. Also in Oklahoma with additional training Chiros can give injections of vitamins.....
 
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I have been to a chiro many times for back pain and a twisted hip, and it helped me alot because the chiro was good at what he did
 

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stookie said:
I have been to a chiro many times for back pain and a twisted hip, and it helped me alot because the chiro was good at what he did
Good. Now next time go to a DO who specializes in OMM and come back and tell us about it. N=1 but I'm still curious to know of your opinion.
 

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DOCTORSAIB said:
Good. Now next time go to a DO who specializes in OMM and come back and tell us about it. N=1 but I'm still curious to know of your opinion.
If this person found someone to help his pain, why would he change providers just for the sake of pampering someones ego on a message board. There are many DO's who perform manipulation that are good at what they do. There are also many DC's who are good at manipulation. We don't have to degrade one profession just to make the other look better.
 

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hokte said:
If this person found someone to help his pain, why would he change providers just for the sake of pampering someones ego on a message board. There are many DO's who perform manipulation that are good at what they do. There are also many DC's who are good at manipulation. We don't have to degrade one profession just to make the other look better.
Touchy, are we?

The person who goes to the DC will see need to see a physician for other ailments.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
Touchy, are we?

The person who goes to the DC will see need to see a physician for other ailments.

If you consider being practical as touchy, then I'm guilty..... :laugh: :laugh: There are people who see DC's that don't see other physicians, unless it's an absolute emergency. I'm not advocating that, but those patients are out there.

We can all be proud of our current or future professions while still being respective of others.
 

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hokte said:
If you consider being practical as touchy, then I'm guilty..... :laugh: :laugh: There are people who see DC's that don't see other physicians, unless it's an absolute emergency. I'm not advocating that, but those patients are out there.

We can all be proud of our current or future professions while still being respective of others.
Although this may be true, it isn't for the best. Preventive care by seeing a family physician prevents EM docs from having an overload of non-emergent patients.
 

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Although this may be true, it isn't for the best. Preventive care by seeing a family physician prevents EM docs from having an overload of non-emergent patients.
I see what you're talking about, and yes it's not good for people to go to the ER with problems that could be elsewhere. What I meant however are that there are people who avoid western medicine at all costs, unless they've cut off a finger, or something dramatic like that.
 

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hokte said:
I see what you're talking about, and yes it's not good for people to go to the ER with problems that could be elsewhere. What I meant however are that there are people who avoid western medicine at all costs, unless they've cut off a finger, or something dramatic like that.
Chiropratics and Osteopathic medicine are both more western than Allopathic medicine. (The former 2 were started in the United States.)
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
Chiropratics and Osteopathic medicine are both more western than Allopathic medicine. (The former 2 were started in the United States.)
The NAME given to the profession may be considered western, but the practice is far from it. Spinal manipulation has been used in treating people for years before Palmer or Still started doing their thing. Maybe I should clarify by saying people who avoid the philosophy of western medicine at all cost. You know they go more for the holistic approach rather than chasing symptoms. Actually, I think you understand exactly what I'm talking about, but for some reason you want to argue. :laugh: Most DO's, DC's, and MD's are starting to respect each other and trying to work together. It makes much more sense.......
 

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hokte said:
The NAME given to the profession may be considered western, but the practice is far from it. Spinal manipulation has been used in treating people for years before Palmer or Still started doing their thing. Maybe I should clarify by saying people who avoid the philosophy of western medicine at all cost. You know they go more for the holistic approach rather than chasing symptoms. Actually, I think you understand exactly what I'm talking about, but for some reason you want to argue. :laugh: Most DO's, DC's, and MD's are starting to respect each other and trying to work together. It makes much more sense.......
Post your sources.
 
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OSUdoc08 said:
Carefully reading this article, I find no mention or implication that spinal manipulation was used prior to the advent of DO's & DC's.

The only discussion is of acupuncture, which is an indirect technique.

You'll have to do better before you're believed.
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/34968/368023.html?d=dmtContent

Under background, read the first paragraph next to history.

I can't believe that you actually want to dispute the fact that many ancient civilizations used spinal manipulation before Palmer and Still came along. I mean they are due the credit of their respective advancements, but come on.....
 

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hokte said:
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/34968/368023.html?d=dmtContent

Under background, read the first paragraph next to history.

I can't believe that you actually want to dispute the fact that many ancient civilizations used spinal manipulation before Palmer and Still came along. I mean they are due the credit of their respective advancements, but come on.....
Actual quotes:

"You're a thief!" shouted an angry Dr. Still, as D.D. Palmer confronted him. "You stole my work and labeled it 'chiropractic.'"

"How could I steal that which you never owned?" retorted the elder Palmer.

"I founded osteopathy in 1874," Dr. Still noted. "It is based on the manipulation of the bones of the spine to allow the blood to flow smoothly and without interruption."

"I founded chiropractic in 1895," replied Dr. Palmer. "It is based on the fundamental of the specific adjustment of the subluxated bones of the spine to free impinged nerves and allow nerve impulses to flow to the body without interruption."

"I am a physician!" shouted Dr. Still.

"I am not a physician!" Dr. Palmer countered.

Dr. Still retaliated: "I was a medical doctor long before I founded osteopathy. About 30 years ago, I began to realize the power of nature to cure after a skillful manipulation of conditions to allow pure and healthy blood to flow into the diseased area. With this faith and by this method of reasoning, I began to treat diseases by osteopathic means - and obtained good results."
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
Actual quotes:

"You're a thief!" shouted an angry Dr. Still, as D.D. Palmer confronted him. "You stole my work and labeled it 'chiropractic.'"

"How could I steal that which you never owned?" retorted the elder Palmer.

"I founded osteopathy in 1874," Dr. Still noted. "It is based on the manipulation of the bones of the spine to allow the blood to flow smoothly and without interruption."

"I founded chiropractic in 1895," replied Dr. Palmer. "It is based on the fundamental of the specific adjustment of the subluxated bones of the spine to free impinged nerves and allow nerve impulses to flow to the body without interruption."

"I am a physician!" shouted Dr. Still.

"I am not a physician!" Dr. Palmer countered.

Dr. Still retaliated: "I was a medical doctor long before I founded osteopathy. About 30 years ago, I began to realize the power of nature to cure after a skillful manipulation of conditions to allow pure and healthy blood to flow into the diseased area. With this faith and by this method of reasoning, I began to treat diseases by osteopathic means - and obtained good results."

That's nice and all, but how does this prove that either one of them came up with the idea of spinal manipulation?? Still founded osteopathy, Palmer founded chiropractic. Neither of them "started" spinal manipulation. Now I would agree that they refined the practice, just like I'm sure the techniques today are more polished than those in 1874 and 1895.

I stand by my orignal statement that spinal manipulation has been used by ancient people before the late 1800's. Actually there were, and still are Native American tribes who also use spinal manipulation as a part of treating illness. :)
 

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hokte said:
That's nice and all, but how does this prove that either one of them came up with the idea of spinal manipulation?? Still founded osteopathy, Palmer founded chiropractic. Neither of them "started" spinal manipulation. Now I would agree that they refined the practice, just like I'm sure the techniques today are more polished than those in 1874 and 1895.

I stand by my orignal statement that spinal manipulation has been used by ancient people before the late 1800's. Actually there were, and still are Native American tribes who also use spinal manipulation as a part of treating illness. :)
Native American tribes would still be "Western" medicine. :laugh:
 

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hokte said:
I can't believe that you actually want to dispute the fact that many ancient civilizations used spinal manipulation before Palmer and Still came along. QUOTE]

I don't think that you have to prove anything. The website for the American Chiropractic Association clearly states that it's roots began with the ancient civilizations 2500 to 3000 years ago. Even the American Osteopathic Association's site says physician's were using hands-on techniques for "at least hundreds of years" before Dr. Still began officially calling it osteopathy. If the ACA and AOA think that it was used before Palmer and Still came along, then I have to side with them.

OSUdoc08 clearly enjoys confrontation.
 

hokte

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scpod said:
hokte said:
I can't believe that you actually want to dispute the fact that many ancient civilizations used spinal manipulation before Palmer and Still came along. QUOTE]

I don't think that you have to prove anything. The website for the American Chiropractic Association clearly states that it's roots began with the ancient civilizations 2500 to 3000 years ago. Even the American Osteopathic Association's site says physician's were using hands-on techniques for "at least hundreds of years" before Dr. Still began officially calling it osteopathy. If the ACA and AOA think that it was used before Palmer and Still came along, then I have to side with them.

OSUdoc08 clearly enjoys confrontation.
Thanks, I was starting to think I was all alone....... :)
 

hokte

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OSUdoc08 said:
Native American tribes would still be "Western" medicine. :laugh:
What??? :eek: Just joking, I actually am a part of one of the tribes that used spinal manipulation as part of traditional healing. Not so much now, but I think the Navajos may still use it. We prefer the term "traditional" to "western" when referring to Indian medicine. :laugh: No big deal though...
 

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hokte said:
What??? :eek: Just joking, I actually am a part of one of the tribes that used spinal manipulation as part of traditional healing. Not so much now, but I think the Navajos may still use it. We prefer the term "traditional" to "western" when referring to Indian medicine. :laugh: No big deal though...
Native Americans by definition are in the West.

(example: Eastern medicine comes from China; Western medicine comes from the Americas)
 

hokte

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OSUdoc08 said:
Native Americans by definition are in the West.

(example: Eastern medicine comes from China; Western medicine comes from the Americas)

You cant be serious, I know that Native Americans are in the west. If you have a discussion with your colleagues about traditional western medicine, are they automatically going to think about native american medicine??? I don't think so. Maybe you would would prefer the term westernized medicine. When people refer to countries outside of the U.S. becoming westernized, do you feel they are going back to traditional native ways? Let me clarify further. Do you feel that they are becoming more like the indigenous inhabitants of what is now known as the U.S.A.?

And to think all of this from the simple question, "Would you ever refer a patient to a DC?"

Your turn.........
 

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I know this question may be a little stupid but can someone tell me the difference between OMM and Chiro Adjustments? What is a good definition of OMM?
 

OSUdoc08

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NUKid said:
I know this question may be a little stupid but can someone tell me the difference between OMM and Chiro Adjustments? What is a good definition of OMM?
DO's use their hands.

Chiro's use an Activator (a.k.a. pogo stick) or another object that I could only describe as a "car buffer."

Some of the techniques are similar, and some are different. OMM stays more within the anatomic range of motion, and uses actual medical diagnoses prior to treatment. Chiro's blame everything on "subluxation."

OMM also incorporates techniques often used by physical therapists.
 
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DO's use their hands.

Chiro's use an Activator (a.k.a. pogo stick) or another object that I could only describe as a "car buffer."

Some of the techniques are similar, and some are different. OMM stays more within the anatomic range of motion, and uses actual medical diagnoses prior to treatment. Chiro's blame everything on "subluxation."

OMM also incorporates techniques often used by physical therapists.
DCs use their hands. "chiropractic" means "practice by hand". Not all use the Activator. Not all chiropractors use the term or concept of "subluxation". I do not. I diagnose, using "medical" diagnoses, prior to treatment. Both DCs and DOs stay within the anatomic ROM. Otherwise, they would injure their patients each time they adjust. Many DCs, myself included, employ physical therapeutic modalities in addition to manual manipulation. DCs have more hours of education in adjusting and employ a broader range of adjusting techniques than DOs. Basically, everything you stated (like many of the comments on this post) was incorrect and uninformed. Please do your homework next time.
 

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Hahahaha. Nice.

Funny side story - My Uncle wanted a specific subset of great Dane a few years back, so he searched all over for breeders, finally found a guy, and went over to his house to pick it up. Knocked on the door, and who answered? Why none other than Burt Ward, better known as Robin ^ in the campy Batman TV series. He took my Uncle all around his house and showed him all the stuff he had from the show and such ... he said it was awesome, but amazingly random he's a dog breeder now.

Anyway, I do like the support for the DO who does NMM/OMM suggestions.
 
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