Would you find this helpful (endo related)

[Sbosu]

Let's face it, dental school does a pretty bad job of teaching endo. For me, the endo curriculum consisted of a 1 semester didactic course, a 1 week hands on lab course with extracted teeth, and a clinical requirement of 5 teeth. I feel like this is a fairly typical curriculum for endo in dental school (please correct me if I'm wrong). That is terrifying and woefully inadequate.

Then, once youre out working, either for a corp, or as an associate, or if you bought a practice right out of school, you have people giving you advice on how to do root canals. Usually it is the senior doc, the owner or another associate that's been out for a while, or even a sales rep telling you how to do endo. If this sounds familiar to any of you, I'm with you, I've been there, this is exactly how it went for me. And if you haven't graduated yet, this will sound familiar to you very soon.

The problem with this is, these people dont really know what they are talking about either. Sales reps just want to sell you their system "use this file it's super easy, fool proof" (hint: the rotary file system you use is the least important aspect of endo by far) and they sell you their $6 a piece thermafill obturators (which are absolutely garbage, but they may make your final radiograph look nice, giving you a very false sense of security). And then you have senior docs who want the new associates to do endo so they dont have to refer it out, because they hate doing it (post op issues, it takes too long, etc...).

So my question to all of you is, would there be interest in learning from an endodontist how to do root canals? And I dont mean in a weekend course, or 3 day seminar. I mean learning endo the way it is taught in an endo residency, including both a clinical and didactic aspect (because both are very important).

I worked as a general dentist for 3 years prior to going back to do my endo residency, so I've seen this from both sides, I know what it's like as a new general dentist trying to do endo, wondering why this case worked but that case didn't. Endo fundamentally is very simple when you know what is going on biologically, and when you have a basic fundamental framework of what to do clinically.

So, would there be interest in learning what I learned in residency?

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[TanMan]

Let's face it, dental school does a pretty bad job of teaching endo. For me, the endo curriculum consisted of a 1 semester didactic course, a 1 week hands on lab course with extracted teeth, and a clinical requirement of 5 teeth. I feel like this is a fairly typical curriculum for endo in dental school (please correct me if I'm wrong). That is terrifying and woefully inadequate.

Then, once youre out working, either for a corp, or as an associate, or if you bought a practice right out of school, you have people giving you advice on how to do root canals. Usually it is the senior doc, the owner or another associate that's been out for a while, or even a sales rep telling you how to do endo. If this sounds familiar to any of you, I'm with you, I've been there, this is exactly how it went for me. And if you haven't graduated yet, this will sound familiar to you very soon.

The problem with this is, these people dont really know what they are talking about either. Sales reps just want to sell you their system "use this file it's super easy, fool proof" (hint: the rotary file system you use is the least important aspect of endo by far) and they sell you their $6 a piece thermafill obturators (which are absolutely garbage, but they may make your final radiograph look nice, giving you a very false sense of security). And then you have senior docs who want the new associates to do endo so they dont have to refer it out, because they hate doing it (post op issues, it takes too long, etc...).

So my question to all of you is, would there be interest in learning from an endodontist how to do root canals? And I dont mean in a weekend course, or 3 day seminar. I mean learning endo the way it is taught in an endo residency, including both a clinical and didactic aspect (because both are very important).

I worked as a general dentist for 3 years prior to going back to do my endo residency, so I've seen this from both sides, I know what it's like as a new general dentist trying to do endo, wondering why this case worked but that case didn't. Endo fundamentally is very simple when you know what is going on biologically, and when you have a basic fundamental framework of what to do clinically.

So, would there be interest in learning what I learned in residency?

There's a few weekend courses by seasoned endodontists that supposedly make you a lot better. I think that the biggest problem with your offering is that you're looking to extend it beyond that. Perhaps if it included microsurgery, retreatment, intentional replant, apexification with a hands on component all within a weekend, then you might be onto something. If this is going to be a 1-2 year commitment of mini-residency series of courses, the cost/time commitment is a big deal killer. Otherwise, I think you might have a narrow market in your offerings. Experienced GP's that don't have much failure with NSRCT will probably opt out, those that are uncomfortable clinically end up in AEGD/GPR's or corporate, and many corporates use internal referrals (in-house endodontists). That leaves new GP's in PP or older GP's who have not gone out of their comfort zone that want to have a hand-holding approach to endodontics. Everyone else either has no interest in doing endo, can't do endo in their employment situation, or have gone through the trial-by-fire of doing endos until they just crank out really bad rct's really quickly or do them at the level of clinical acceptability(or above) with no desire to change.

When the RCT fails, many docs will end up extracting and placing an implant or bridge afterwards. Some will retreat, apical surgery, or refer.

As a dentist, I'd consider it if you could address the following:
- Location/times. Most dentists are off Sat/Sun, so it's gotta be on an off day to prevent loss of production. However, it can't be one of those worthless CE's where midway through the process you are so bored that you regret going and end up leaving for a couple of hours to catch a drink and coming back just to get ce credit.
- Why is your course superior to other endodontists doing courses with long established reputations. Not a knock on you, but you have competition. If it isn't, price/convenience is your other selling point.
- Will you train dental assistants? I would be dead in the water without my assistants for any procedure.
- Why couldn't this course be done in a weekend/3-day series?

 

[Sbosu]

There's a few weekend courses by seasoned endodontists that supposedly make you a lot better. I think that the biggest problem with your offering is that you're looking to extend it beyond that. Perhaps if it included microsurgery, retreatment, intentional replant, apexification with a hands on component all within a weekend, then you might be onto something. If this is going to be a 1-2 year commitment of mini-residency series of courses, the cost/time commitment is a big deal killer. Otherwise, I think you might have a narrow market in your offerings. Experienced GP's that don't have much failure with NSRCT will probably opt out, those that are uncomfortable clinically end up in AEGD/GPR's or corporate, and many corporates use internal referrals (in-house endodontists). That leaves new GP's in PP or older GP's who have not gone out of their comfort zone that want to have a hand-holding approach to endodontics. Everyone else either has no interest in doing endo, can't do endo in their employment situation, or have gone through the trial-by-fire of doing endos until they just crank out really bad rct's really quickly or do them at the level of clinical acceptability(or above) with no desire to change.

When the RCT fails, many docs will end up extracting and placing an implant or bridge afterwards. Some will retreat, apical surgery, or refer.

As a dentist, I'd consider it if you could address the following:
- Location/times. Most dentists are off Sat/Sun, so it's gotta be on an off day to prevent loss of production. However, it can't be one of those worthless CE's where midway through the process you are so bored that you regret going and end up leaving for a couple of hours to catch a drink and coming back just to get ce credit.

I agree. I have sat through many useless CE courses. Most CE courses are completely out of date. What I had in mind was simply putting my residency in written/blog format, posting 3 times a week or so. So, location and time would be at your house and time would be whenever you want!
- Why is your course superior to other endodontists doing courses with long established reputations. Not a knock on you, but you have competition. If it isn't, price/convenience is your other selling point.
There is a lot of competition by established people, you are right, however those are more geared towards giving you a few tips and tricks in a weekend course, and that is not what I am talking about. I am more interested in giving you the fundamentals of endo, literally putting my endo residency online. Again, knowing what I know now, I have a different perspective, and I've been a general dentist, I remember my thought process for endo (which was very similar to what you described above) but that is just not reality. So, cost would be nothing, and convenience would not be an issue either.
- Will you train dental assistants? I would be dead in the water without my assistants for any procedure.
This would not be covered in extensive detail
- Why couldn't this course be done in a weekend/3-day series?
As you have already stated, these already exist. I'm more interested in providing biologically, evidenced based facts that will improve clinical outcomes for everyone.

I am interested in helping people like myself when I first started out. There are 100s of facts I learned in residency that, cumulatively, change your frame for what endo is and what you are accomplishing. For instance, I was not aware until I started residency, that that abscess the patient has is sterile, there is no bacteria outside the root canal (maybe a very small amount, this is debated in the literature), I the radiolucency and/or swelling is in fact made up of inflammatory cells, dead bacteria, and bacterial byproducts. That alone, was eye opening to me, I had no idea. Also, in a tooth with irreversible pulpitis, success rate is far higher if you fill 1-2mm short vs. If your fill is long. Again, I had no idea that was true until I went through residency. These are practical facts that just aren't taught in dental school, and I think information like this would make everyone better.

 

[Strag]

Let's face it, dental school does a pretty bad job of teaching endo. For me, the endo curriculum consisted of a 1 semester didactic course, a 1 week hands on lab course with extracted teeth, and a clinical requirement of 5 teeth. I feel like this is a fairly typical curriculum for endo in dental school (please correct me if I'm wrong). That is terrifying and woefully inadequate.

Then, once youre out working, either for a corp, or as an associate, or if you bought a practice right out of school, you have people giving you advice on how to do root canals. Usually it is the senior doc, the owner or another associate that's been out for a while, or even a sales rep telling you how to do endo. If this sounds familiar to any of you, I'm with you, I've been there, this is exactly how it went for me. And if you haven't graduated yet, this will sound familiar to you very soon.

The problem with this is, these people dont really know what they are talking about either. Sales reps just want to sell you their system "use this file it's super easy, fool proof" (hint: the rotary file system you use is the least important aspect of endo by far) and they sell you their $6 a piece thermafill obturators (which are absolutely garbage, but they may make your final radiograph look nice, giving you a very false sense of security). And then you have senior docs who want the new associates to do endo so they dont have to refer it out, because they hate doing it (post op issues, it takes too long, etc...).

So my question to all of you is, would there be interest in learning from an endodontist how to do root canals? And I dont mean in a weekend course, or 3 day seminar. I mean learning endo the way it is taught in an endo residency, including both a clinical and didactic aspect (because both are very important).

I worked as a general dentist for 3 years prior to going back to do my endo residency, so I've seen this from both sides, I know what it's like as a new general dentist trying to do endo, wondering why this case worked but that case didn't. Endo fundamentally is very simple when you know what is going on biologically, and when you have a basic fundamental framework of what to do clinically.

So, would there be interest in learning what I learned in residency?

As a GP, I really appreciate when endodontists go out their way to help out their referrals/dental community and help them get better at endodontics. At the same time, I understand my own limits and appreciate what endodontists do beyond my means and believe in the value of referring out.

I think you would generate a lot of interest, especially the "why" things work. A lot of the endo hands on CE are geared towards selling a certain product, which is nice in the beginning but it's even nicer to go over diagnosis, results, handling trauma, etc. As a GP, I always wondered how to manage open apices, internal bleaching, proper obturation techniques, the mechanics behind those. There's not that many CE that I know of that teach WVC, which I'm learning through my GP residency cases with my endo mentor, but that would be extremely helpful to those practicing. From my experience, I know a ton of GPs that do single cone/BC sealer or guttacore/single file systems. I do not know what the general consensus with the endo community behind those techniques are (mixed I supposed?), but I'm all for teaching the correct way.

Thank you for reaching out!

 

[Sbosu]

I appreciate the feedback from everyone