Yale done?

[PeripateticMD]

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Does anyone know if I can just add Yale to my rejected pile (in my head)? It's the only school that I don't know what's up at (in terms of pre-interview).

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

dunno bout the facts, but i went ahead and put them in my rejected list last week.

 

[BellyDancingDoc]

Last year they interviewed into late Feb, I think.

However, I don't know whether or not they've given out all their invites...

 

[bola]

OK, so I talked to people at the admissions office last week and was told they had only interviewed a bit more than 50% of their interviewees this season. I'm guessing they have offered interviews to a higer percentage though. I think they're still giving invites but for sure I know they will be interviewing till early march...I'm hoping and praying for my interview soon too, good luck!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I dont understand why everyone loves yale; i applied there this year but have heard a lot of negative things since (actually all of them from yale ugrads that ive met on the interview trail) so i think i wouldnt even go to an interview if i received one.

for one, since there are no requirements for tests, etc, it makes it very VERY hard for students to differentiate themselves from their peers. Thus this makes ambitious students that want competitive residencies go nuts with extracurriculars and leadership positions, as well as suck up like mad to potential recommendation writers. I believe there is also no true evaluation system during the clinical years as well. [this is all things i've heard from yale ugrads that have friends in the med school]

i for one think some competition needs to exist in terms of academics. it doesnt have to be a preclinical H/HP/P/F, but at least there should be mandatory testing. Stress is a part of being a doctor and it should be reflected in the learning sequence as well by some sort of grading system. There especially needs to be some sort of grading system in the clinical years! Students need to have a way to differentiate themselves that arent bull5hitty (ie, leadership roles, clubs, etc).

 

[biggoron42]

I believe there is also no true evaluation system during the clinical years as well.

i dont believe that is correct.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

yeah, what i hear is that they *at least* have pass/fail with ranking in clinical years.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

i dont believe that is correct.

i believe they have just P/F for clinical years. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. (If I remember right Stanford also has only P/F during clinical years)

 

[crimsonkid85]

yale is a phenomenal school, but certainly the yale system isn't right for everyone. there are plenty of ways of self-evaluation outside of school.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

i believe they have just P/F for clinical years. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. (If I remember right Stanford also has only P/F during clinical years)

yeah, and the difference i've heard is that yale is ranked pass-fail (aka b.s. aka effectively a grading system) while stanford is unranked pass-fail during clinical years.

 

[pinfeathers6]

I dont understand why everyone loves yale; i applied there this year but have heard a lot of negative things since (actually all of them from yale ugrads that ive met on the interview trail) so i think i wouldnt even go to an interview if i received one.

Uggh, well call me crazy but I'm thinking of turning down my interview for this very reason. I'm actually going kind of bonkers over this, but it really comes down to not being to comfortable with their "system"... I have some serious thinking to do on this one over the next few days.

 

[PDsquash83]

Uggh, well call me crazy but I'm thinking of turning down my interview for this very reason. I'm actually going kind of bonkers over this, but it really comes down to not being to comfortable with their "system"... I have some serious thinking to do on this one over the next few days.

Unusual, but what attracts me to yale is what makes it so unappealing to you.

 

[byong_soo]

me too. i am very attracted by "the yale system." u r right. it probably isn't for everyone.

 

[Lorienne7]

I just got an interview from Yale about an hour ago, which REALLY surprised me since I placed Yale in the no chance pile ages ago. Whatever, I'll take it! I don't know what dates are available, but I'll let you guys know on Tuesday when I schedule it.

 

[szhao]

lol same here i got an interview from yale, after being rejected yesterday from the MD/PhD and sending an email saying "thank you for timely rejection etc.", i guess a simple email goes a long way

 

[Cirrus83]

Unusual, but what attracts me to yale is what makes it so unappealing to you.

Yeah seriously, I didn't even bother applying but that's only because I know I have no chance in hell of getting in there-but I'm sure I'd love it there.

I spoke with an actual med student from Yale (my high school valedictorian) and she LOVES it there, and loves the system too.

And far as I know, the Yale med students end up doing just fine for residencies.

I guess some people are just too gunner to be able to deal with this concept though

 

[etf]

i think that yale attracts (actually admits is probably the better word) a certain caliber of student, one that would be able to essentially study medicine on their own. so they might not test, but they probably don't need to - the students are most likely highly motivated. i heard they don't exactly kill on the boards though...

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Yeah seriously, I didn't even bother applying but that's only because I know I have no chance in hell of getting in there-but I'm sure I'd love it there.

I spoke with an actual med student from Yale (my high school valedictorian) and she LOVES it there, and loves the system too.

And far as I know, the Yale med students end up doing just fine for residencies.

I guess some people are just too gunner to be able to deal with this concept though

its not a gunner concept. i just dont want to be in a position where i have to run for b.s. leadership roles and do all these extra ECs to glorify my resume to get into a competitive residency. i rather just have a more normal system where i can show my academic prowess by doing well, plus naturally taking part in leadership, research, and what have you bc i want to not bc i feel like i have to.

I hate it when people resume build. From what I hear, yale is all about resume building. Since you cant separate yourself from your peers by grades and academic performance (since they dont have a true grading system and just have a p/f for clinical), you have to do all these b.s. things that true over-achievers are awesome at. I have never been good at resume building in this sense... hey, i guess the school just wouldnt be for me.

 

[soco]

its not a gunner concept. i just dont want to be in a position where i have to run for b.s. leadership roles and do all these extra ECs to glorify my resume to get into a competitive residency. i rather just have a more normal system where i can show my academic prowess by doing well, plus naturally taking part in leadership, research, and what have you bc i want to not bc i feel like i have to.

I hate it when people resume build. From what I hear, yale is all about resume building. Since you cant separate yourself from your peers by grades and academic performance (since they dont have a true grading system and just have a p/f for clinical), you have to do all these b.s. things that true over-achievers are awesome at. I have never been good at resume building in this sense... hey, i guess the school just wouldnt be for me.

Yale is looking for people who don't compete on tests to show their "prowess." You've pretty much got the concept. Except, what you call resume building is what Yale calls being a leader. I can imagine the people that go there wake up after 4 years and write down their resume and think damn, I did all this stuff? This is a school for the confident and brilliant who know enough about history to be modest at the same time. I'm glad there's a school like this that can give pre-meds real choices about the right system for them instead of trying to be a me-too harvard

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Yale is looking for people who don't compete on tests to show their "prowess." You've pretty much got the concept. Except, what you call resume building is what Yale calls being a leader. I can imagine the people that go there wake up after 4 years and write down their resume and think damn, I did all this stuff? This is a school for the confident and brilliant who know enough about history to be modest at the same time. I'm glad there's a school like this that can give pre-meds real choices about the right system for them instead of trying to be a me-too harvard

Yea I agree with you. It does fit for some people.

Im just not someone who would want to force myself to COMPETE with others by resume building in order to land a tough residency... I'd rather do it the good ol' fashioned way. Haha, man, you dont know me, I am a modest person. Honestly, it worries me that I wouldnt do ''well'' at yale bc i wouldnt play the resume-building game as well as other students could... and i would hate for that being a key reason for failing to get an ortho residency.

You're right though. Its a great alternative for a certain breed of premed. I dont mean to bash the school, Im just giving my insight from what i've heard: its not the super dream of complete relaxation and no competition that everyone thinks. There IS competition for residencies so there will ALWAYS be competition amongst students. It doesnt have to be hurtful competition (gunnerism), but its still there.

 

[yoyoyankee]

Yale is looking for people who don't compete on tests to show their "prowess." You've pretty much got the concept. Except, what you call resume building is what Yale calls being a leader. I can imagine the people that go there wake up after 4 years and write down their resume and think damn, I did all this stuff? This is a school for the confident and brilliant who know enough about history to be modest at the same time. I'm glad there's a school like this that can give pre-meds real choices about the right system for them instead of trying to be a me-too harvard

According to the 2005-06 Yale student handbook, p. 54, clerkships are graded as H/HP/P/F.

 

[weathertalk]

i think that yale attracts (actually admits is probably the better word) a certain caliber of student, one that would be able to essentially study medicine on their own. so they might not test, but they probably don't need to - the students are most likely highly motivated. i heard they don't exactly kill on the boards though...

Actually, last year they had the highest board scores in the 13-school consortium, according to my tour guide. The 13-school consortium is a group of schools that are similar in prestige, size, research resources etc. and includes Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, Duke, Pitt, Case Western, Rochester, Cornell etc. among others.

 

[soco]

Yea I agree with you. It does fit for some people.

Im just not someone who would want to force myself to COMPETE with others by resume building in order to land a tough residency... I'd rather do it the good ol' fashioned way. Haha, man, you dont know me, I am a modest person. Honestly, it worries me that I wouldnt do ''well'' at yale bc i wouldnt play the resume-building game as well as other students could... and i would hate for that being a key reason for failing to get an ortho residency.

You're right though. Its a great alternative for a certain breed of premed. I dont mean to bash the school, Im just giving my insight from what i've heard: its not the super dream of complete relaxation and no competition that everyone thinks. There IS competition for residencies so there will ALWAYS be competition amongst students. It doesnt have to be hurtful competition (gunnerism), but its still there.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. What we both agree on is that a) you compete through grades or b) you compete through resume builders.

Don't you think you would rather be person b at the end of the day? All person "a" has is a really good looking refrigerator door with awesome scores on tests, etc. but person b actually has something that can be used for the rest of their life. Nowhere on my resume does it talk about my awesome biology tests. It seems to me that no one in the future will care if you got 100's on anatomy or whatever, but they would care if you were the prez of an anatomy organization because doing real things shows you are a real person.

I can see how good tests scores could mean that you would be an awesome doc, but if you had the choice of differentiating yourself and you would be successful either way, wouldn't you choose b?

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. What we both agree on is that a) you compete through grades or b) you compete through resume builders.

Don't you think you would rather be person b at the end of the day? All person "a" has is a really good looking refrigerator door with awesome scores on tests, etc. but person b actually has something that can be used for the rest of their life. No where on my resume does it talk about my awesome biology tests. It seems to me that no one in the future will care if you got 100's on anatomy or whatever, but they would care if you were the prez of an anatomy organization because doing real things shows you are a real person.

I can see how good tests scores could mean that you would be an awesome doc, but if you had the choice of differentiating yourself and you would be successful either way, wouldn't you choose b?

i see what your saying. through my ugrad i have diversified myself through a lot of activities that i enjoyed (and had a lot of leadership positions as well frankly). i am proud to say that i never did an activity just for the sake of resume-building (unlike most premeds, i would say). on top of that, i decided to go into medicine my jr year, so all my volunteerism/leadership in clubs/etc previously can definitely be proven as not tainted by aspirations of harvard or what have you.

what frustrates me so much about premeds is that, from my experience, most arent honest with themselves and their activities. people participate in certain things, become leaders in certain things, not bc they have a true desire, but just so that they can resume-build. i feel like theyre lying to themselves.

on top of that, theres a ridiculous amount of premeds that go to third world countries or look and search for ''unique'' ways to try and feign diversity so that they can land a top school. its truly pitiful.

i guess my frustrations with this whole process is kind of tainting my perception of yale.

also, if yale does have a graded clinical years than that relieves a lot of the pressure off resume-building. can anyone verify that?

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Actually, last year they had the highest board scores in the 13-school consortium, according to my tour guide. The 13-school consortium is a group of schools that are similar in prestige, size, research resources etc. and includes Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, Duke, Pitt, Case Western, Rochester, Cornell etc. among others.

1. penn 2. duke

thats all i know (i heard this from students when i interviewed at duke and penn)

there was a thread about how all top schools seem to claim the highest or close-to-highest board scores

 

[dantt]

One thing I'm not sure about is whether this "resume building" is required to compete against other Yale students for residencies or for students from other schools. It would indeed be BS to have to compete with other Yale students in this manner. However, I think it will certainly be an asset when students at other schools essentially don't have resumes.

 

[Haemulon]

I also applied to Yale, but have not heard from them since I was complete back in September. I really don't have the stats of an average Yale matriculant, but they do seem to like applicants with different backgrounds so I gave it a shot. Ah well, at least I won't be wondering "what if?".

 

[lina123321]

theyre still interviewing, i went a few days ago; i got my invite around end dec./beginning january; and from how busy the phone was there, im assuming more interviews are being scheduled

 

[Lorienne7]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys, but I just scheduled my interview and they only have slots available during the last two weeks of February, which are their last two weeks of interviews 😱

 

[spiritualMD]

Just got the Yale invite on 01/26....Called the admissions office today to schedule and they had every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday open for the last 3 weeks of February. Good luck everyone! 🙂

 

[Lorienne7]

Just got the Yale invite on 01/26....Called the admissions office today to schedule and they had every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday open for the last 3 weeks of February. Good luck everyone! 🙂

Weird, I scheduled mine today and she told me that only the last two weeks in Feb were available...

 

[lina123321]

does anyone know when final decisions are made & how they are sent out?

 

[fotografía]

1. penn 2. duke

thats all i know (i heard this from students when i interviewed at duke and penn)

there was a thread about how all top schools seem to claim the highest or close-to-highest board scores

Yup. At Stanford, we were told that last year's USMLE Step 1 mean was the highest in the nation. Go

 

[lina123321]

those who got interviewed at yale, did u get a "thankyou for your visit" letter...im kinda scared as to whether its just a regular thankyou, a pre-waitlist, etc...any info?

 

[BellyDancingDoc]

those who got interviewed at yale, did u get a "thankyou for your visit" letter...im kinda scared as to whether its just a regular thankyou, a pre-waitlist, etc...any info?

^^^ Yikes, I didn't get one of those! Hopefully they didn't hate me.

 

[foofish]

I dont understand why everyone loves yale; i applied there this year but have heard a lot of negative things since (actually all of them from yale ugrads that ive met on the interview trail) so i think i wouldnt even go to an interview if i received one.

Yeah, I've heard the same....although the anti-Hopkins Hopkinite undergrads have definitely outdone the anti-Yale Yalies in proclaiming their hatred of their ugrad's med school. Mind you it's a small sample, but every single person from JHU that I met hadn't even applied (and seemed insulted/horrified that we'd think they had).

I see Yale as the Brown of the med schools....a little funky and different, and great for some people, horrible for others. 🙂

 

[dantt]

I guess for Yale, you either love it or you hate it. Their philosophy is you are an adult now and don't need someone there to tell you what to do. You do what you need to do to get where you want to go. The students there say the help and guidance are all there if you need it. How can you complain about low pressure? If you have discipline, you can always pressure yourself if that is what's required. The faculty there are amazing and actually want med students to work with them. The only questionable thing was the line of 10 black people in front of me at Popeyes fried chicken. kidding I was very surprised to see a 2 piece meal there for over $8. Most expensive Popeye's I've seen in my life.

 

[byong_soo]

another uber cool thing I learned on my interview day is that people who choose to go for another degree within Yale NEVER got rejected by respective programs. If you choose to get a JD, MPH, MS, or MBA, of course, you have to study for respective standarized tests and do those application thing all over again. But other Yale schools must be very eager to take Yale med students in becaue no one has ever failed to get into program of their choice. Now, that is VERY cool and impressive.
and the matchlist? impressive would be an understatement. IMPECCABLE!!
I am in love. 😀

 

[absolutezero]

post deleted

 

[tissueeng84]

I dont understand why everyone loves yale; i applied there this year but have heard a lot of negative things since (actually all of them from yale ugrads that ive met on the interview trail) so i think i wouldnt even go to an interview if i received one.

You should talk to the Yale med students. I suspect the Yale ugrads are trying to discourage you from attending so they'll have a better chance.😉

 

[ggman]

its not a gunner concept. i just dont want to be in a position where i have to run for b.s. leadership roles and do all these extra ECs to glorify my resume to get into a competitive residency. i rather just have a more normal system where i can show my academic prowess by doing well, plus naturally taking part in leadership, research, and what have you bc i want to not bc i feel like i have to.

I hate it when people resume build. From what I hear, yale is all about resume building. Since you cant separate yourself from your peers by grades and academic performance (since they dont have a true grading system and just have a p/f for clinical), you have to do all these b.s. things that true over-achievers are awesome at. I have never been good at resume building in this sense... hey, i guess the school just wouldnt be for me.

I would suggest that you take a look at Yale's residency match list. If you get so fortunate to go to their medical school you would be well on your way towards the very best creme de la creme residency programs in whatever field you choose to specialize.

On a related note, my CCLM interviewer was a residency director and she said that the Yale transcript is the most useful transcript out of any medical school in the country because it contains written evalutaions from each one of your professors and mentors. According to her, that's a lot more useful than taking into account grade inflation and trying to compare all the different grading systems that schools have. In her own words "the only time a graded transcript tells me something is if you have failed a course. Otherwise, it doesn't really enter the equation that much."

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I would suggest that you take a look at Yale's residency match list. If you get so fortunate to go to their medical school you would be well on your way towards the very best creme de la creme residency programs in whatever field you choose to specialize.

On a related note, my CCLM interviewer was a residency director and she said that the Yale transcript is the most useful transcript out of any medical school in the country because it contains written evalutaions from each one of your professors and mentors. According to her, that's a lot more useful than taking into account grade inflation and trying to compare all the different grading systems that schools have. In her own words "the only time a graded transcript tells me something is if you have failed a course. Otherwise, it doesn't really enter the equation that much."

I wonder if Yale has a residency match list that is on par with other top schools. I am not sure since I have been unable to see it (they do not publish it on the website). Nor do they publish their USMLE scores. I have actually heard that their average USMLE scores are lower than other top schools.

My central accusation against Yale was the need to resume-build. I hate resume-building (while I believe most premeds love it; I've personally always sucked at it). That does not mean they don't churn out excellent physicians prepared for careers in academics or otherwise. It just means in order to be competitive within a Yale med school class you may have to rely on competition outside the classroom, which naturally, a lot of the time is unfair or somewhat out of your control. For example, running for leadership in clubs etc may end up being a popularity contest; conducting your research thesis may be more lucky for some versus others (depending on mentor, feasibility of projects, results... anyone who researches knows that a lot of time time you cannot forsee certain obstacles). I personally rather go to a med school where I am in more control over my own destiny.... i.e. where I can differentiate myself from my class by doing well academically.

Also, every med school has ambitious students. You are kidding yourself if you think the competitive drive dies when grades are taken out of the picture. There are always going to be that core of 6-7 ambitious pre-neuorsurgery med students that know they have to kick a$$ to live their dream.

I have already stated that I know the school wouldn't fit my personality. I've turned down my interview chance. I do understand that the 'Yale system' does work in principle for the right students. Yale is an awesome school, just not for me.

 

[pyrois]

I have actually heard that their average USMLE scores are lower than other top schools.

I was told by one of their faculty while I was there that they were third last year.

So, to be more precise, their USMLE scores are certainly lower than other top schools. 2 of them to be exact.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I was told by one of their faculty while I was there that they were third last year.

So, to be more precise, their USMLE scores are certainly lower than other top schools. 2 of them to be exact.

haha.

That could be true and it may not be. I've heard boggled lists and boasted score averages from all sorts of schools. (is Penn or Stanford 1st, is Duke or Wash U second?)

I heard from one source that UF was second this past year. (which may be true?)

i think this info should be made available on the usmle website.

 

[pyrois]

My central accusation against Yale was the need to resume-build.

From what I have seen and heard of the applicants my sister and her fiance are up against in the match, you'll need to resume-build no matter where you go.

On the other hand, if you consider it "resume-building" then that's already a bad sign (the term implies that you don't enjoy the activities you're doing... if you did, you'd just call it "fun").

If you think that by going to UC Irvine and getting High Honors with a 260 on your USMLE is going to let you trump somebody who went to Yale who just got a 260 on their USMLE, I think you need to do a little more homework.

P/NP/No ranking system at big name universities aren't a bad thing... because of their name. P/NP/No ranking system at a "lesser" university is a bad thing (if you want to match into a competitive specialty).

 

[pyrois]

That could be true and it may not be.

Yeah, I really don't trust all these "claims." They really need to just publish that stuff in MSAR and be done with it.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

From what I have seen and heard of the applicants my sister and her fiance are up against in the match, you'll need to resume-build no matter where you go.

On the other hand, if you consider it "resume-building" then that's already a bad sign (the term implies that you don't enjoy the activities you're doing... if you did, you'd just call it "fun").

If you think that by going to UC Irvine and getting High Honors with a 260 on your USMLE is going to let you trump somebody who went to Yale who just got a 260 on their USMLE, I think you need to do a little more homework.

P/NP/No ranking system at big name universities aren't a bad thing... because of their name. P/NP/No ranking system at a "lesser" university is a bad thing (if you want to match into a competitive specialty).

I have never resume-builded. Honestly. I became premed Junior year of college and was volunteering, had leadership roles, did everything I truly enjoyed before I even knew that I would be going into something competitive such as medical school.

Since I've become premed, I've sensed the premedical resume-building virus. It's all over the place. It makes me hate this process.

In your UC Irvine vs Yale hypothetical, I bet either student would land an awesome residency and it would be most determined by the personality of the applicant and the residency interview.

 

[DrHusky]

Alright I am going to throw out this information that should be intuitive to most of you. I have interviewed at 4 different schools that ALL claim to have the top board scores (go figure). Anyhow, the fundamental concept here is that it is a standardized test...much like the MCAT. Therefore, like the MCAT, how you perform is a product of your ability to perform on standardized tests (there are several papers on this correlating MCAT to boards as a measure of why the MCAT should remain an admissions requirement). I would venture to guess that you, personally, would score essentially the same score on the boards wherever you went. Also, it is worth noting that every school I have interviewed at has told me that they give you time off to study for the boards (usually about 2 months). During this time, students consult med textbooks AND those study guide books (like the MCAT ones).

So....I have no doubt that Yale students perform similarly to other schools having the same caliber of entering students.

I will also second that fact that the match list they give you when you interview is equally as impressive as Harvard's or other 'top schools'.

Bottom line, it is probably not a good fit for the gunner pre-meds of the world....which in my mind encompasses a significant portion. Furthermore, the 'resume-stacking' that was earlier referred to is likely no more than any other school. Although there are no rankings, the fact that you get into Yale says enough about your academic ability. I strongly doubt that there is a significant discrepancy between performance in the memorization portion of ugrad and med and there are grades in rotations to distinguish yourself (or brown nose....however you think about it).

 

[ggman]

I wonder if Yale has a residency match list that is on par with other top schools. I am not sure since I have been unable to see it (they do not publish it on the website). Nor do they publish their USMLE scores. I have actually heard that their average USMLE scores are lower than other top schools.

My central accusation against Yale was the need to resume-build. I hate resume-building (while I believe most premeds love it; I've personally always sucked at it). That does not mean they don't churn out excellent physicians prepared for careers in academics or otherwise. It just means in order to be competitive within a Yale med school class you may have to rely on competition outside the classroom, which naturally, a lot of the time is unfair or somewhat out of your control. For example, running for leadership in clubs etc may end up being a popularity contest; conducting your research thesis may be more lucky for some versus others (depending on mentor, feasibility of projects, results... anyone who researches knows that a lot of time time you cannot forsee certain obstacles). I personally rather go to a med school where I am in more control over my own destiny.... i.e. where I can differentiate myself from my class by doing well academically.

Also, every med school has ambitious students. You are kidding yourself if you think the competitive drive dies when grades are taken out of the picture. There are always going to be that core of 6-7 ambitious pre-neuorsurgery med students that know they have to kick a$$ to live their dream.

I have already stated that I know the school wouldn't fit my personality. I've turned down my interview chance. I do understand that the 'Yale system' does work in principle for the right students. Yale is an awesome school, just not for me.

Yale's residency match list is insane. When you go to interview there they give you a bulleting booklet that has the list and as i said before, if you go there, you are a set man.

 

[byong_soo]

Yale's residency match list is insane. When you go to interview there they give you a bulleting booklet that has the list and as i said before, if you go there, you are a set man.

Definitely. Yale match list is simply insane.
The whole resume thing maybe true- maybe not. But the bottom line is that yale med grads go to excellent residencies. It's par with other top schools. you really have to see the list. And then you will be left to wonder why it's not ranked top 5.