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Yale General Surgery Residency

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ybcurious

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Is the Yale general surgery residency program really that malignant and why are so many residents always leaving the program?
 

slowlybutshelly

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Yes. awful for students. As an outta state IMG I was treated terribly by fellow students.
 

BlondeDocteur

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I have friends there, and they're happy.

Malignancy is relative, but it didn't strike me as such when interviewing last year. I just thought New Haven is a small town, and their volume and complexity wasn't that great.
 

MrBigLips

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i heard new haven sucks. buncha bums and drug addicts. sad too since they have one of the most beautiful university campus'.
 

MossPoh

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Are you sure those aren't just liberal arts majors?
 

MrBigLips

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I have friends there, and they're happy.

Malignancy is relative, but it didn't strike me as such when interviewing last year. I just thought New Haven is a small town, and their volume and complexity wasn't that great.


hey blondedocteur, how are things in washington? malignant? img friendly? pro research?
 

BlondeDocteur

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UW is wonderful and I've been incredibly happy. Of all the university programs in the country, I'd say we are about the most IMG-friendly. Our very charismatic chairman is himself Argentinian, and wants to recruit talent no matter from whence it springs. 5/7 or so go into research, but it's not required.

It's all a bit bittersweet. I've been so happy, and so impressed with the program, that I just hope I can stay on (I'm a 2 yr preliminary resident).
 

MrBigLips

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UW is wonderful and I've been incredibly happy. Of all the university programs in the country, I'd say we are about the most IMG-friendly. Our very charismatic chairman is himself Argentinian, and wants to recruit talent no matter from whence it springs. 5/7 or so go into research, but it's not required.

It's all a bit bittersweet. I've been so happy, and so impressed with the program, that I just hope I can stay on (I'm a 2 yr preliminary resident).


thanks!!! and good luck to u! :)
 

Guile

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She did not apply for PRS, applied for general surgery, and late in the application process had some strong compelling person reason to go to Seattle (husband/fiancé?) but hadn't applied categorical to UW, so she applied as a prelim and ranked it over all her categorical spots. She matched there. (I feel weird telling someone else's story, but that's my understanding of it from what she's posted here.)
 

Obama 2012

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Yale surgery is not malignant in the slightest. In the surgery world, perceptions lag behind reality by at least 5 years. Yale used to have a malignant culture, lots of work hours violations, etc which is why they lost accred about 10 yrs ago. With a new chair comes a new culture. People at Yale are very happy.

Can't make any promises about medical student experiences. Yale medical students have it easier than any other students in the nation. They aren't evaluated by residents and really get to direct their own education - which is great for them. But bizarre to the residents, who mostly went to medical schools where they were expected...no, demanded, to be grunt work for the surgical team.
 

SLUser11

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Yale surgery is not malignant in the slightest. In the surgery world, perceptions lag behind reality by at least 5 years. Yale used to have a malignant culture, lots of work hours violations, etc which is why they lost accred about 10 yrs ago. With a new chair comes a new culture. People at Yale are very happy.

Can't make any promises about medical student experiences. Yale medical students have it easier than any other students in the nation. They aren't evaluated by residents and really get to direct their own education - which is great for them. But bizarre to the residents, who mostly went to medical schools where they were expected...no, demanded, to be grunt work for the surgical team.

Countdown to an outside SDNer making a comment about your screen name in 4....3...2...1......
 

yale11

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Yale surgery is not malignant in the slightest. In the surgery world, perceptions lag behind reality by at least 5 years. Yale used to have a malignant culture, lots of work hours violations, etc which is why they lost accred about 10 yrs ago. With a new chair comes a new culture. People at Yale are very happy.

Can't make any promises about medical student experiences. Yale medical students have it easier than any other students in the nation. They aren't evaluated by residents and really get to direct their own education - which is great for them. But bizarre to the residents, who mostly went to medical schools where they were expected...no, demanded, to be grunt work for the surgical team.

Yale gen surg is malignant - why do you think no Yale med student would ever match in gen surg at Yale? People stay at Yale for just about every other residency program, but never gen surg.

Yale med students are evaluated by residents in every other 3rd year rotation (med, peds, ob, etc). Thankfully the gen surg attendings are aware that the gen surg residents aren't competent enough to evaluate the med students, so they don't.

Obviously if your idea of a good student is "grunt work for the surgical team" then you should not be playing a role in medical education. What a joker.
 

SteadyEddy

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Countdown to an outside SDNer making a comment about your screen name in 4....3...2...1......

chuckle...
 

europeman

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I went to Yale for med school years ago and I ca tell you this is totally true.

It is unfortunate and VERY odd that no Yale students stay for general surgery there! They stay for every other field though.

It's just not a nice program for what it's worth basically.

Their attrition rate through the years is very concerning also.

Chair forces EVERYONE with rare exception (eg if you have phd) to do 2 years off for research which is not cool. Most programs encourage it... And that's great... Here it's forced.

Program director good guy but probably been in the post too long.

At MM/Grand rounds residents sit in ties and white coats with chairman looking for those sleeping and then calls on them with pimp questions. Just not friendly atmosphere.

Operating experience very good but not outstanding.

Chairman is renowned endocrine surgeon.... But parathyroids are not the end all be all surgery and if you don't spit out the nuances of MEN-2 on command you are looked down upon.

Fair number of crazy, personality disorders in the faculty too... More than most places in my opinion.

Again... If Yale med students aren't staying for gen surgery you have to wonder. We are talking year after year after year too.
 

Dirt

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Chair forces EVERYONE with rare exception (eg if you have phd) to do 2 years off for research which is not cool. Most programs encourage it... And that's great... Here it's forced.

Just want to point out that this is the case for the vast majority of the high power academic surgery places.
 

europeman

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yes i guess you have a point that is true. except Yale REALLY isn't one of those "high powered" places for General Surgery. They are just sorta trying to be one. That's the difference.
 

DrNick Riviera

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yeah, certainly the trend now with the "top" programs. just off the top of my head...

U michigan
Duke
MGH
Brigham (+/-)
U Pitt
Wash U
Hopkins (?)
UCSF
UCLA

where lab/research time is required
 

Guile

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yeah, certainly the trend now with the "top" programs. just off the top of my head...

U michigan
Duke
MGH
Brigham (+/-)
U Pitt
Wash U
Hopkins (?)
UCSF
UCLA

where lab/research time is required
Brigham and Hopkins lab time is required.
 

joehuf

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Interesting. I've wondered if the increase in "required" lab time is a response to more stringent 80-hour rules. In a way it forces you to remain in the call pool for an extra two years. I wonder how much of that "research time" involves trauma and ICU call days.
 

Apollyon

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Interesting. I've wondered if the increase in "required" lab time is a response to more stringent 80-hour rules. In a way it forces you to remain in the call pool for an extra two years. I wonder how much of that "research time" involves trauma and ICU call days.

In the mid part of the first decade of the millennium (2003-2006), the Duke surgery folks went into the lab after their 2nd year. They weren't on the regular call schedule for anything, although they could do "2222", which was the trauma consultant, and, at night, was fun, if that was your thing (although I don't know if they got paid extra for it - knowing the place, I'd guess no), but, for every 2222 shift you picked up, you had to do a day in clinic. I don't know if that is still the deal.
 

SAVUS096

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Yale gen surg is malignant - why do you think no Yale med student would ever match in gen surg at Yale? People stay at Yale for just about every other residency program, but never gen surg.

Yale med students are evaluated by residents in every other 3rd year rotation (med, peds, ob, etc). Thankfully the gen surg attendings are aware that the gen surg residents aren't competent enough to evaluate the med students, so they don't.

Obviously if your idea of a good student is "grunt work for the surgical team" then you should not be playing a role in medical education. What a joker.

This made me laugh. How are the residents not competent enough to evaluate the medical students???? I think you're the joker.
 

ExtraCrispy

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MGH does NOT require lab time. Although it's encouraged.
 

DrNick Riviera

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True, officially.
They pretty much expect it of all their residents. This is what was blatantly stated during interviews. If you have significant research experience, ie PhD, then its easier to avoid it.
That being said, they were one of the few programs with fully funded positions for all residents, pretty much regardless of what you want to do.
 
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