Yale vs Duke vs Wake Forest vs Maryland vs Michigan

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Gopher16

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I would really appreciate any help on this decision. I'm sorry this is long, but I'm super indecisive.

Yale
Pros
  • Great Reputation with a really good match list
  • Good Research opportunities with stellar faculty and interesting electives and opportunities
  • P/F with low pressure exams and optional quizzing (may also have p/f clinical)
  • Not far from my parents
Cons
  • Didn't qualify for good financial aid package so COA super high
  • Far from SO :(
  • Not very diverse
  • Cold
Duke
Pros
  • Pretty diverse judging from accepted students group
  • was accepted to primary care track and will have a very unique curriculum
  • SO will probably be at another school very close by
  • I love the flexibility of the third year
  • The location is also diverse and I really like the area
Cons
  • Could be expensive (have not received package)
  • Kind of want to be somewhere new but it's not a huge deal
Wake Forest
Pros
  • Full COA scholarship
  • I like the city and could get a cool place to live
  • Seems like faculty are kind and approachable
  • Can do rotations in a bigger city nearby
Cons
  • Concerned about research opportunities
  • Match list not as great my other options (could this get worse with P/F step 1?)
  • not as diverse as I would like
Maryland
Pros
  • Close to parents
  • 20k scholarship
  • Good research opportunities
  • Diverse class
Cons
  • Not as prestigious
  • not crazy about Baltimore
Michigan
Pros
  • Super nice faculty and great diversity office that I really like
  • close to extended family
  • So many oppurtunities to do cool things
  • shortened pre clinical
  • 35 k scholarship
Cons
  • Out of state tuition is super high
  • Far from SO (they may end up attending a school in the region but it's not likely)
  • Cold
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This one is hard, but i'd begin with the process of elimination. I'd take out yale because of cost and Maryland because of cost relative to opportunities.

Full COA is big, so I'd leave wake forest in there. Being close to your SO could be big depending on your relationship, so I'd leave Duke in there. Michigan has the best cost to opportunities, so I'd leave that in there. If You're sensitive to money, no one would blame you for going with 0 cost. I personally think you can get into some debt to go with the others over wake forest, but that amount is personal for each person. If Duke can match michigan (which I doubt it will in need based ais if you didn't quality for aid from yale), I'd go with duke because of SO. Otherwise, I'd look strongly at Michigan. Strong brand, great opportunities, as highly regarded in medicine as the others on your list, and they gave you essentially half tuition (tuition is more like 62k across all 4 years, not the 68k of the first year).
 
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BritainKittenMittens said:
This one is hard, but i'd begin with the process of elimination. I'd take out yale because of cost and Maryland because of cost relative to opportunities.

Full COA is big, so I'd leave wake forest in there. Being close to your SO could be big depending on your relationship, so I'd leave Duke in there. Michigan has the best cost to opportunities, so I'd leave that in there. If You're sensitive to money, no one would blame you for going with 0 cost. I personally think you can get into some debt to go with the others over wake forest, but that amount is personal for each person. If Duke can match michigan (which I doubt it will in need based ais if you didn't quality for aid from yale), I'd go with duke because of SO. Otherwise, I'd look strongly at Michigan. Strong brand, great opportunities, as highly regarded in medicine as the others on your list, and they gave you essentially half tuition (tuition is more like 62k across all 4 years, not the 68k of the first year).
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I don’t know if this matters but I’m pretty sure I’d be getting in state tuition at Maryland. Duke does give merit aid by the way if that matters too.
 
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Hm I guess it'd be more helpful if you have the COA of the schools, or at least the relative COAs. I'd still take out Maryland because I wouldn't pick it over wake forest full coa or Michigan half tuition. And my same reasoning with duke. If they give you more than Michigan, I'd choose it over Michigan to be closer to SO (otherwise it's a toss up of what place you like more and where you want to match).
 
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First off, congrats! In this case, I would lean heavily toward UMich. Yes, Wake is giving you more money, but I would be concerned with the match list compared to schools like UMich. I would go Michigan here.
 
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My COA for each:
Yale :280k
Duke: don’t know could be 360k max
Maryland: 80k
Michigan: 88k
Wake: nothing of course lol
 
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MongutheDoggy said:
First off, congrats! In this case, I would lean heavily toward UMich. Yes, Wake is giving you more money, but I would be concerned with the match list compared to schools like UMich. I would go Michigan here.
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Why Michigan? Mostly the match list?
 
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I guess it depends on your relationship with your SO, but apart from that, this seems like an easy one for me. Umich for an extra 20k a year is worth the the premium over wake forest. The tiers here would be umich, yale and Duke, and then the next tier would be wake forest and Maryland. Within a tier, just go off of where you'll be happiest because it's really the same.

Each person has their own price they put on "jumping" tiers, but many would agree that 20k a year is definitely worth it in this case.
 
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It's a Wake Forest vs. Michigan situation at this point. Maybe Duke can come into contention if they give a strong aid package. Wake Forest is a great school - full cost of attendance is hard to pass up and I don't think you'll be limited in any meaningful way by picking it. Plus Michigan will end up being 100k+ more in the end...you need to decide what your threshold is for cost.

How serious is this SO? This you can only judge but long distance is very difficult in medical school. How do they feel about it? Maybe take that into consideration.
 
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Not relevant to the decision but when putting in tiers, I do think Maryland is significantly stronger than Wake. I agree though, not withstanding SO situation, seems like a slam dunk for Michigan if you don't mind living with the family member.
 
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Tell all of these expensive schools about the better aid offers elsewhere. You may be pleasantly surprised and have Yale or Duke match your Michigan aid offer (matching Wake less likely but also worth mentioning).

Unless you've done long distance with your SO and know it works for you, I'd make them a priority. I was far away from family for college and that was nothing compared to being away from the SO for most of med school.

Your goal here isn't just to match well, but also to be happy in your daily life. Very little can impact your happiness as much as seeing your SO often vs rarely.
 
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efle said:
Tell all of these expensive schools about the better aid offers elsewhere. You may be pleasantly surprised and have Yale or Duke match your Michigan aid offer (matching Wake less likely but also worth mentioning).
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I believe Yale only does need-based financial aid.
 
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efle said:
Tell all of these expensive schools about the better aid offers elsewhere. You may be pleasantly surprised and have Yale or Duke match your Michigan aid offer (matching Wake less likely but also worth mentioning).

Unless you've done long distance with your SO and know it works for you, I'd make them a priority. I was far away from family for college and that was nothing compared to being away from the SO for most of med school.

Your goal here isn't just to match well, but also to be happy in your daily life. Very little can impact your happiness as much as seeing your SO often vs rarely.
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Hmm I actually ended up asking Duke I have no expectations but it’s worth a shot I guess.
 
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Duke and Yale will give you the most bang for your buck come match time, with Michigan right after that. You will appreciate it when you start the stress of applying to residencies. But CoA is hard to pass up and an honor. Decision comes down to specialty interests and practice interests; if you want to possibly apply to competitive specialties/match at top academic centers, Duke and Yale are probably the way to go. For primary care/community centers, any school will do the job. See if they'll match your scholarship
 
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chemtime said:
Yale or Duke. Look at the match lists and decide for yourself
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Lol I'm convinced that no one really knows how to read match lists, but especially people who say this. Michigan's match list is just as impressive, but since it's a primary care focused school in the midwest many choose to stay in the midwest with more primary care specialties. Look at PD scores and judge for yourself.
 
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I swear dude, SDN is filled with gunners who haven't mentally graduated from high school and have ingrained "undergrad prestige" schools in their minds.
 
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I don't know if anyone still cares to help me but I thought I'd give an update. Due to some financial changes with the family member that offered to help me live in Michigan my COA is higher there now. It will likely cost me double to go there about 180k-200k. Duke is going to be about the same. I've narrowed my choices down to Michigan, Duke and Wake. I have no idea what to do. I really want free school to be honest, but I'm afraid I'll have no chance at being at an academic medical center. I don't have an interest in anything competitive ( I don't like working with my hands so anything surgical is likely a no go for me), but I would like to do my residency somewhere research heavy. Would I be screwed if I don't pick a big name?
 
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If you're serious about being close to your SO in North Carolina, and the COA won't be much different compared to Duke, I think we can rule out Michigan. If research is really important to you, I think Duke is the significantly better option compared to Wake Forest. People in medicine take out much more in loans for much worse reasons than attending medical school at Duke and end up fine -- you seem to really like their curriculum, and the prestige obviously opens doors, I say go for it.
 
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What will the loans from Duke look like after you finish residency in the specialities you have in mind? ACMAS has a loans calculator. Then maybe take the average salary of whatever speciality your interested in, and then look at the after tax take home. Then look at what your monthly educational loan payment will be, and try to factor in mortgage payment, car, retirement, etc. Then ask yourself whether duke is worth it over a free ride to wake. I’d totally take the free ride to wake. It’s an excellent school, and educational debt is ball and chain.
 
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Also see if you can get in touch with wake forest students about getting my opportunities to do research. I think you are incorrectly assuming that you won’t have research opportunities available to you.
 
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Gopher16 said:
I don't know if anyone still cares to help me but I thought I'd give an update. Due to some financial changes with the family member that offered to help me live in Michigan my COA is higher there now. It will likely cost me double to go there about 180k-200k. Duke is going to be about the same. I've narrowed my choices down to Michigan, Duke and Wake. I have no idea what to do. I really want free school to be honest, but I'm afraid I'll have no chance at being at an academic medical center. I don't have an interest in anything competitive ( I don't like working with my hands so anything surgical is likely a no go for me), but I would like to do my residency somewhere research heavy. Would I be screwed if I don't pick a big name?
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Why do you feel you have "no chance to be at an academic medical center" from Wake Forest?
 
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Biased as an M1 at Wake, but writing “full ride scholarship to Wake” on your residency apps will look just as impressive if not more impressive than “Duke graduate”. Plus, if you end up doing academic primary care from Duke, that extra $200k in loans plus interest will be crippling compared to the financial freedom you will have at Wake.

FWIW I absolutely love Wake and the faculty here, and I don’t think I’ve met any classmates who feel differently. Awesome place to be, and I think it’s on the rise with Atrium pouring $billions into the med center and new campus in Charlotte.
 
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drgoldenboy said:
What will the loans from Duke look like after you finish residency in the specialities you have in mind? ACMAS has a loans calculator. Then maybe take the average salary of whatever speciality your interested in, and then look at the after tax take home. Then look at what your monthly educational loan payment will be, and try to factor in mortgage payment, car, retirement, etc. Then ask yourself whether duke is worth it over a free ride to wake. I’d totally take the free ride to wake. It’s an excellent school, and educational debt is ball and chain.
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According to the loans calculator from AMCAS I will owe almost 300k after residency which isn’t the best if I pick what I’m currently interested in but I could probably pay it back in like 7 or 8 years if I’m frugal as long as I don’t have kids.
 
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Gopher16 said:
According to the loans calculator from AMCAS I will owe almost 300k after residency which isn’t the best if I pick what I’m currently interested in but I could probably pay it back in like 7 or 8 years if I’m frugal as long as I don’t have kids.
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PSLF is an option as well.

From my perspective, it is between wake and duke due to proximity to SO and due to your pros/cons. I think a lot depends on your goals as well. If you are interested in hyper-competitive specialties or wanting to go to top programs, I think duke can give you the leg up. If cost is a big deal to you or if you are interested in primary care / something less competitive, I would take the price tag at wake.
 
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Gopher16 said:
According to the loans calculator from AMCAS I will owe almost 300k after residency which isn’t the best if I pick what I’m currently interested in but I could probably pay it back in like 7 or 8 years if I’m frugal as long as I don’t have kids.
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Well, if you're OK with that, then go Duke. I wouldn't want my life to be constrained by the debt to the point where if I wanted a family I had to wait to pay off debt. But that's just me. Both are good choices!

Also consider the freedom/security of not having debt. If anything happens to you, or to the medical field you choose (apparently this is happening to EM), or whatever, the debt will continue to accumulate. It doesn't matter. Just another angle to consider. Duke is more prestigious, we all know, but you have to ask yourself really, at what price. And WFSOM is a good school.
 
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Gopher16 said:
I’m worried about pass fail step one.
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P/F step one does not matter as much as SDNers think. You will still have a scored step 2 CK exam, you will still have to do well on your clinical rotations and get good LORs, and you will still need to complete ample research in the field of your choice. WFSOM will not restrict your opportunities for research either. I have been on multiple projects during my first year and have had residents reach out to me for other projects which I declined because I was busy with others. I’m not sure how much better you can get in terms of research haha. Once again, I can’t stress enough how much it will suck to have to pay off $300k in loans while making a primary care physician’s academic salary, even if you end up at Harvard or Hopkins.
 
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m1redsox said:
P/F step one does not matter as much as SDNers think. You will still have a scored step 2 CK exam, you will still have to do well on your clinical rotations and get good LORs, and you will still need to complete ample research in the field of your choice. WFSOM will not restrict your opportunities for research either. I have been on multiple projects during my first year and have had residents reach out to me for other projects which I declined because I was busy with others. I’m not sure how much better you can get in terms of research haha. Once again, I can’t stress enough how much it will suck to have to pay off $300k in loans while making a primary care physician’s academic salary, even if you end up at Harvard or Hopkins.
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Wow that sounds great! At this point I don’t think I’m screwed with either choice.
 
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Last thing I'll say OP and then I've said my piece is see if you can find a new MD who has to deal with medical school debt. Talk to them to see how that impacts their life. Ask them what it's like to work their butt off for 8 years only to further delay gratification, or make career decisions based on their debt. Duke if you have very specific reasons that compel you. but WFSOM if it's just vague ideas about what you want to do.

Anyways, that's my personal bend -- I think the educational debt we have our new young doctors go into is a huge moral failing of our health system. Good luck OP - you are in a good spot either way.
 
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