Yale vs. Stanford (premed)

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coconu

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Hello,

This is my first time on these boards, and I was wondering if I could get as much varied input as I can on these schools' respective pre-medical programs. Pros/cons; anything would be appreciated!


-Coco
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That's like saying Polo or Nautica. There is no right answer. There both excellent instutions.
 
I went to Stanford as an undergrad.

Stanford has no premedical committee, and no premed major. The premed advisers were pretty awful in my experience. They didn't know any more than the average med student.

Stanford's chem sequence is unique. G-chem is taught in 2 quarters (it was one quarter when I was there) instead of three. Also, labs separate courses instead of being integrated into classes.

I know pretty much nothing about Yale for undergrad, so I can't really draw any comparisons between the two. I hope the previous 2 paragraphs helped.
 
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Howdy from New Haven. Yale does have a pre-med committee, and you'll get a letter packet with a pretty detailed committee letter in the front. Our pre-med advising is pretty good (although Ed Miller is retiring), and there are open hours all the time if you just want to drop in. (I never did, but it's nice to know that they're there for you.) At the beginning of the app cycle, I sat down with an advisor and went over my list of schools -- I also got feedback on my personal statement from a college writing tutor during the summer. Overall, I'd say that the support from the school made the process much less stressful than it had to be.

To make my post a foil for F12's - Yale's chem sequence is a bit strange, as well. There are basically 4 ways to complete the chem sequence, including CHEM113 and 114 (2 different 2-semester sequences), CHEM118 (a one-semester course - I took this one), and CHEM125 (freshman orgo). Labs are also separate at Yale and are worth 0.5 credits. (If you come here, prepare to hear lots of moaning and groaning over this.) Other pre-med courses are manageable, and there are 2 separate orgo series as well (or o-chem for you West Coasters).

But I guess the most important point I can make for you is that you should not be making a college decision based on pre-med advising. Seriously. Go where you feel is the best fit for you. Palo Alto and New Haven are two utterly different animals -- do you like urban environments or lots of palm trees? Where do like the students more? What are your current extracurricular interests that you want to continue pursuing during college? (For instance, if you're a pianist, Yale's School of Music is pretty kicking...) Use *these* questions to decide where to go. To have a decision to pick between these two schools is a fortunate position, so for goodness' sake, go where you'll be happiest.
 
Well... Stanford seems to inflate their grades a little more than Yale... Not that it should matter, but hey, it doesn't hurt.

The bad thing is that adcoms tend to know this; a professor of mine who was an adcom for the PhD program at Stanford for awhile said that they tend to be harsher on Stanford graduates for the admissions because they feel there is a slight grade inflation at Stanford.
 
Haha, this was my senior year dilemma. Just remember either one is better than Harvard or the one that doesn't matter. 😛 In all seriousness though, go to the school where you're happiest, because you'll be less productive and get less out of your college years if you go some place that isn't right for you.
 
I agree with what the previous poster said about the Stanford premed advising - it sorta exists, but is rudimentary and not very helpful. However, Stanford gets ~75% of their applicants accepted every year, without filtering out anybody's application. The faculty, especially in bio or human biology, are well aware of their students' interest in medical school and if you find the right major advisor, they can be invaluable. (Look up Bob Siegel if you end up at Stanford). Other things to consider are research and clinical opportunities - I think Stanford's hospital system is bigger than Yale's, and there are a couple student-run free clinics that offer significant patient contact. Research at Stanford, especially in medical fields, is second to none. Professors there LOVE working with undergrads, and getting into a lab is usually as easy sending out a couple of emails. So yeah...those are things to consider too.
 
Stanford is a great place to be a pre-med. The Human Biology major is probably the most stress-free pre-med experience in the country. You basically customize your major to suit your interests, taking classes that you are interested in from any department in the school. Also, instead of taking Biology to satisfy the year long bio pre-med requirement, you take Human Biology, which is more interesting and more laid-back.
Essentially, you don't have to worry about major requirements and you can focus on pre-med requirements.
 
DMac84 said:
Stanford is a great place to be a pre-med. The Human Biology major is probably the most stress-free pre-med experience in the country. You basically customize your major to suit your interests, taking classes that you are interested in from any department in the school. Also, instead of taking Biology to satisfy the year long bio pre-med requirement, you take Human Biology, which is more interesting and more laid-back.
Essentially, you don't have to worry about major requirements and you can focus on pre-med requirements.
Click to expand...

One caveat about Human Biology - don't take it JUST because you want an "easier" bio experience. You are required to take a lot of social science classes (4 days a week, early in the morning, for a year) that will feel like torture if you're not a social science-y person.

As was posted earlier, Stanford premed advisors are not helpful at all. I sought out advice from premed friends at other universities and managed to get onto the Harvard premed advising emailing list. Don't think I would have gotten by without the extra effort. But I have been out for a bit, so maybe some changes have been made.

But despite all of that, Stanford really is a great place to be premed. There are tons of research and clinically relevant volunteer opportunities -- and you're in Cali =)

Either way, Stanford or Yale, if you're already worrying about you're premed experience, I feel like you'll be just fine...
 
Thank you so much for all the responses (any more would always be appreciated!)

I'm a little shocked to hear the lack of strength in premed advising at Stanford; it's the school a lot of people think about when they think of premed (at least in my small community). I was skeptical about Yale only because it's not so well known in the sciences; could any Yalies respond to that?

The fact that Stanford's entering student body is ~50% premed is a bit daunting, and sounds as if it'll kill an environment of variability and instead forms a place where everyone's cutthroat about getting research and clinical experience...no?

Whereas Yale, I've heard that the science programs lack well-known professors and as much research opportunities compared to Stanford, only because its emphasis is on the humanities...

Sorry if I come off as naive; where I come from, this is what's generally considered fact on both schools. Any more input would be completely welcome!
 
Stanford is a very good place to be premed. First, I wouldnt say 50% of freshmen start off as premed. Maybe like 25% do.
Sciences here are 2nd to none, and profs are all at the top of their fields. In addition, the med school is huge and integrated with the undergrad program, espessially the humbio major. Also, the med school offers a lot of research opportunities for undergrads.

The advisors are just ok but what would they tell me that I don't already know or can't find out through friends, med schools, msar, sdn...
 
Going off on tangent slightly: Stanford's provost speech during admit weekend said roughly 50% of the incoming class were considering premed.
 
coconu said:
The fact that Stanford's entering student body is ~50% premed is a bit daunting, and sounds as if it'll kill an environment of variability and instead forms a place where everyone's cutthroat about getting research and clinical experience...no?
Click to expand...

The 50% number turns out to be very conflated in practice. There are a lot of people that are "thinking about med school" but few who are decided, at least during freshman year. The actually proportion that ends up applying is about 20%. And I totally disagree with the notion that the number of premeds hurts the "environment of variability." For whatever reason, Stanford tends to encourage a huge number of non-trad applicants and applicants with extremely diverse experiences. No premed that I talk to has taken the same courses, done the same ECS, or pursued the same research. There's just so many opportunities that there is very little overlap in experiences, despite the large number of premeds.
 
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Go where you will have the best time -- don't base your decision on whichever on has the best "pre-med program".
 
New Haven, being a rather downtrodden city, was advertised to have a lot of community service opportunities as well as an abundant volunteer outlets at the Yale Hospital. In addition, I was looking into the Yale Emergency Services where trained EMTs can work with the city's ambulance systems.

Does Stanford have medical community service opportunities despite the "Stanford bubble? (given that Palo Alto isn't as downtrodden...)" How about trained EMT students; does Stanford have some sort of a group like Yale?

I understand it's pretty naive trying to choose which school to apply to based on premed programs, but I like them both so much on different levels, that this is one criteria I'm also considering.

Thanks for the continued input!
 
Oh--and in addition to the above question,

How difficult is it to gain a national EMT status, meaning that you can practive EMS in any state?
 
Bumpage...would love to hear about the community service question!
 
Stanford med students and undergrads run 2 free clinics (arbor and pacific free clinics), in addition to other medical type things like volunteering at the VA hospital and emergency room work/shadowing.
 
Palo Alto itself is well off, however, neighboring East Palo Alto is one of the most "downtrodden" cities in the state and there is a wealth of service opportunities there and in parts of Menlo Park. As far as the EMT program - I don't know too much about it, but I know that an EMT training sequence was first offered a couple years ago and there's some kind of partnership with the Stanford fire department. I happen to know one of the guys teaching the EMT program, so PM me if you want his email...I'm sure he knows a lot more than I do about it.
 
Go to Williams College - you will get a much better undergraduate education than at Stanford or Yale, these schools are focused on grad students not undergrad...the elite small liberal arts colleges are much better for undergrad education than Stanford or the Ivies...the professors at these schools send their own kids to Williams, Amherst, Carleton...not the Ivies except Princeton which does focus on undergraduates. The Ive league is pretty much bullsh**t for undergrad except Princeton, Dartmouth, and Brown. Stanford is way overrated for undergrad but it does have nice weather.
 
OP, I was a Stanford premed and it was a great experience. There are definitely clinical opportunities like free clinics, patient advocacy program, ER volunteer/intern/medical translating programs, etc. And of course you can do research with some really amazing people.

And yes, lots of people start out "premed," but that's the case at a lot of colleges, and a big portion of them change their minds by the end of freshman year.

I wouldn't worry too much about the sub-par premed advising at Stanford. If you're a fairly resourceful person, you'll figure out what you need to do anyway. I met with a pre med advisor a total of two times during my time at Stanford and I didn't have any trouble. PM me if you have specific questions.
 
searun,

Really? I always thought both S and Y were good at focusing on their undergraduate education. While I knew large research institutions did not give much attention to undergrads, I thought that mostly applied to those with a large student body...

PickleLuvrrr, I PMed with a few questions. Thank you so much for your input!

With a place like SDN, is premed advising really necessary...? xP
 
coconu said:
searun,

Really? I always thought both S and Y were good at focusing on their undergraduate education. While I knew large research institutions did not give much attention to undergrads, I thought that mostly applied to those with a large student body...

PickleLuvrrr, I PMed with a few questions. Thank you so much for your input!

With a place like SDN, is premed advising really necessary...? xP
Click to expand...

Actually, I think that Yale does a better job of focusing on undergraduates than Stanford. I read an article by a recent Stanford president who said that he would never send one of his own kids to Stanford as an undergraduate....only for graduate school...Stanford med school is great, but the undergraduate program is way overrated...you are just buying a label, some great weather, and a pretty campus in my opinion. But whatever floats your mom's boat.
 
Actually, if I was shopping for labels and listening to my mother, I'd be headed for Yale without question. But thanks for your completely unbiased answer.
 
Side question after the last PM:

How important is high school research prior to entering premed in undergrad?:idea:
 
I think that people say "yale is better for undergrad" say it just because Yale's grad programs arn't as strong or broad as Stanford's. But that doesn't mean that Stanford undergrad is not strong. I think that despite the great emphaisis Stanford puts on its grad schools, there is a strong committment to undergrads, espessially during the last decade. Stanford showers undergrads with research opportunities, money (just got a 5200 dollar undergrad grant last week), and attention.
 
#1 - If I were you, I would seriously consider weather. Do you like seasons? It snows in New Haven in winter, gets really hot in the summer, and fall and spring are generally cool. I don't really know much about Northern California, but it's going to be a different type of climate.
#2 - Have you looked at the majors that are offered at both schools? I guess this doesn't matter if you're planning on doing straight bio, but some schools offer more variety in majors, and you might find something you like a little more than bio (Neuroscience, Pharmacology, Science in Society...).
#3 - Have you looked at other course offerings, and how easy it is to get into courses that are in a department other than your major? You're (hopefully) not going to spend all 4 years living in the Science department.
#4 - Have you looked at whether or not they offer funded summer research opportunities? Some schools do.

One last suggestion - if you can, try to find out what percentage of the medical school class are from that undergrad. This is important for 2 reasons - #1 - if the school is willing to extend a lot of offers to their own undergrads, they have confidence in their academic ability and preparation, and #2 - if the students are willing to come back for 4 more years, they must like the school a lot.
 
F12 said:
Stanford's chem sequence is unique. G-chem is taught in 2 quarters (it was one quarter when I was there) instead of three. Also, labs separate courses instead of being integrated into classes.
Click to expand...

if by "unique" you mean "exactly like UCLA's" then yes, it is "very unique." 😛
 
Diosa brought up some good points. Here are my thoughts with regards to Stanford:

#1 - If I were you, I would seriously consider weather. Do you like seasons? It snows in New Haven in winter, gets really hot in the summer, and fall and spring are generally cool. I don't really know much about Northern California, but it's going to be a different type of climate.

Stanford weather is amazing. It never gets too cold in the winter (you can get away with just wearing a sweatshirt even in the coldest months), and the summer is hot but NEVER humid. Only downside is that the late winter/early spring months can get pretty rainy, which sucks when you bike to class most of the time.


#2 - Have you looked at the majors that are offered at both schools? I guess this doesn't matter if you're planning on doing straight bio, but some schools offer more variety in majors, and you might find something you like a little more than bio (Neuroscience, Pharmacology, Science in Society...).

A majority of premeds are split in major between Biological Sciences and Human Biology. BioSci allows you to specialize in an area (e.g. Neuroscience, Mol. and Cellular Biology, etc.) but you have to do honors to do it. HumBio I believe is pretty flexible about letting you design your own emphasis within the major.


#3 - Have you looked at other course offerings, and how easy it is to get into courses that are in a department other than your major? You're (hopefully) not going to spend all 4 years living in the Science department.

You can take whatever courses you want in whatever department you want.


#4 - Have you looked at whether or not they offer funded summer research opportunities? Some schools do.

There are funded opportunities that are structured, like a summer research college, where you live in a dorm with other people doing research for the summer and participate in seminars, trips, etc., but it's also not too hard to get paid hourly for research during the summer if you don't want to do a structured program (during the year, not so much- mostly for academic credit).


One last suggestion - if you can, try to find out what percentage of the medical school class are from that undergrad. This is important for 2 reasons - #1 - if the school is willing to extend a lot of offers to their own undergrads, they have confidence in their academic ability and preparation, and #2 - if the students are willing to come back for 4 more years, they must like the school a lot

A friend told me there are close to 20 Stanford undergrads in Stanford's first year med school class of about 87. I would say that's a lot.
 
Do Yale students have an opportunity of running a free clinic/receiving funding as well?

Weather is pretty important, I guess. I do love snow, but I hate humidity. That's why I love the Wyoming/Colorado area so much ^^. Le sigh.

Thank you so much for the generous comments, and to those who've replied to my foolish PMs, thank you! 😍

-Cocoline
 
Hi Coco, looks like you've got a pretty awesome choice, so I'd say you can't go wrong. As for your previous question, there most certainly is an entirely student-run free primary health care clinic in New Haven (the name is HAVEN in case you felt like googling it). In addition, there is another pro-bono program run out of the med school that's pretty exclusive but apparently quite influential. In addition, the New Haven area is sorely lacking in health resources, making organizational support a must (Unite For Sight was founded here by a Yale undergraduate in 2000).

To provide some more info for you about Yale, the sciences aren't as lacking as people make them out to be-- the college may have fewer senior faculty members in the physical sciences (physics, chemistry, astronomy), but there are certainly big names in the biology department (e.g. Nobel Laureate Sidney Altman, discoverer of ARP Tom Pollard) and a lot of rising young faculty (Craig Crews, Glen Micalizio, etc.). Don't let this be the criterion for your choice, though. As Searun notes, a small liberal-arts college like Williams may be better in terms of education-- professors at big-name universities like Stanford and Yale aren't given tenure on the basis of their teaching abilities 😉

In addition, Yale's med school is huge on research. I myself do my work there, and a large percentage of undergrads do as well, so it's an excellent opportunity to spend large amounts of time in a medical lab setting. It's also close to Yale-New Haven hospital, which makes it convenient to get to either.

Lastly, I beg to differ with jlq3d3's generalization that Yale has less broad, shallower programs than Stanford. I personally feel that one of the benefits of the Yale education has been the breadth of instruction, since the college really encourages you to take a wide array of classes in the liberal arts-- even if you're pre-med. There are quite a few "health professions" majors as well, such as the History of Medicine, which is extremely flexible (you can substitute all your pre-med requirements for major requirements) and the Human Anthropology track (which allows you to design your own class for the Senior Medical Anthropology course). Furthermore, the 5-year Public Health program is absolutely stellar for individuals interested in Epidemiology, PH, or Global Health.

Furthermore, the current Dean of Students, Dr. Salovey, has been pushing to add a Health Studies major to the university, with the first several courses in the subject to be offered in the coming fall. Dean Salovey has really made it known that his goal is to make the current generation of Yale undergrads known as the "Health Generation," securing HHMI grant funding for the third? fourth? time in a row. He's created several major fellowships for students in the field, and works regularly with on-campus groups and publications to get the message across. Personally, I've been granted almost $20K for myself and health-related organizations I supervise over the last two years. If there's one thing I like about the university, it's that there are definitely resources for you if you'd like to get involved.

At the end of the day, I'd urge you to go where you'll be happiest as an undergraduate. I've taken classes at Stanford in HS, and I can tell you that the weather there is absolutely gorgeous. Perhaps you'd do best to take a campus visit to both locations 😉
 
^Thank you so much for your response!

I actually did do a campus visit during the admit days; Stanford's weather was, of course, orgasmic to say the least...Yale had sleet the day my family was there...T_T

I also read that Yale recently had a $1 billion funding for its science programs...will this affect undergraduate sciences?
 
id be surprised if you still haven't made your choice, but id like to point out that, on the interview trail, the only schools that seemed to be grossly overrepresented were harvard, yale, and princeton.
 
jlq3d3 said:
what would they tell me that I don't already know or can't find out
Click to expand...

See posts #19 and #20 here:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=149508

"Sure, some of these things can be replicated by the student himself. But clearly, it is a whole lot better to have the school do it for him. The best advisory committees serve as a virtual pipeline to med-school in that they primp and prep all of their candidates to put their best foot forward. It's like hiring a good marketing or PR firm on your behalf to put you in the best possible light."
 
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