Yes, there is $$ in Family Medicine

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inspirationmd said:
What's the high range a new grad coming out of FM residency can expect to pull in a rural job? Have a friend graduating in a year and they are just starting to look into this. Specifically in the Southeastern US. Is 200K+ too much to expect?
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In the southeast, that's definitely doable. You do have to move into more rural areas (not necessarily middle of nowhere), but it's definitely not over the top, especially if you factor in bonuses. I'll be graduating in just over a year and will be looking in slightly more metropolitan areas of the southeast, and I'm expecting to come close to 200.
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So I met two family med-sports med docs over the weekend. They absolutely encouraged me to go into family practice. They not only agree you can make a decent living, but think people who say otherwise must never have had a job before going to med school...
 
Hey CB,

I appreciate your posts, very informative and helpful. You have any experience on the job market in Cali? How realistic is it to get a job in the SF/LA area?

I know its super saturated, so is it just a 'cali dream'? Also, if there are jobs, what is the pay lookin' like? Around 120K?
 
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Blitz2006 said:
Hey CB,

I appreciate your posts, very informative and helpful. You have any experience on the job market in Cali? How realistic is it to get a job in the SF/LA area?

I know its super saturated, so is it just a 'cali dream'? Also, if there are jobs, what is the pay lookin' like? Around 120K?
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You are welcome. I have no experience in California and probably never will. I have a friend who works FP in San Diego and her pay rate is 140K-160K. On the low end for rural but right on for urban. Yes, California is a very saturated market. There are jobs in Northern California all over the place but with the high cost of living and high real estate costs difficult to know if you would break even.
 
So I am sad to report that my dream job was recently cut short due to financial constraints and the hospital may be shutting down. So the big money is no longer. So I am currently back on the locums trail on the quest again for the next dream job. No harm no foul. Seems I am forever destined to be locums

I am off to Alaska next for a three month stint. Finally get to go "home" for a while. Yay.
 
Sorry to hear the news cabin, if interested check that job post I listed their might be something still available.
 
cabinbuilder said:
So I am sad to report that my dream job was recently cut short due to financial constraints and the hospital may be shutting down. So the big money is no longer. So I am currently back on the locums trail on the quest again for the next dream job. No harm no foul. Seems I am forever destined to be locums

I am off to Alaska next for a three month stint. Finally get to go "home" for a while. Yay.
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Sorry to hear that. No funding and hospitals shutting down in places of need is terrible to hear. There is one "rural track" residency program in my home state but it is not currently funded. I just don't understand how rural programs can be created, which are supposed to train docs to serve in these areas, and they are not being funded. Especially residency spots where it is government funding.
 
CB, sorry to hear about the job cut :( very sorry that a rural hospital may be closing. That is a shame because I feel for those people and their lack of access to health care... Where my husband's cabin is in Northern MN, the nearest hospital is 45mns already, if it closed, the nearest would be over an hour away for many people....


Just for you NSF
 

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cabinbuilder said:
So I am sad to report that my dream job was recently cut short due to financial constraints and the hospital may be shutting down. So the big money is no longer. So I am currently back on the locums trail on the quest again for the next dream job. No harm no foul. Seems I am forever destined to be locums

I am off to Alaska next for a three month stint. Finally get to go "home" for a while. Yay.
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The Nevada gig?
 
AlmostJesus said:
The Nevada gig?
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Yes, the Nevada Gig. Looks like the main guy there is going to be indicted soon for Medicare and Medicaid fraud. I took my money and ran today. DO NOT want to be there when the Feds haul him away.

Seems I am destined to be a locums doctor forever which is totally fine by me. So I am off to Alaska for the summer to work. It's a beautiful thing.
 
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SBB2016 said:
CB, sorry to hear about the job cut :( very sorry that a rural hospital may be closing. That is a shame because I feel for those people and their lack of access to health care... Where my husband's cabin is in Northern MN, the nearest hospital is 45mns already, if it closed, the nearest would be over an hour away for many people....


Just for you NSF
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It is a shame, I feel for the patients too. It's unfortunate that one doctor is in total control over the whole situation and has run the place into the ground due to his own greed but sometimes you have to look at self preservation and jump off the sinking ship when the opportunity arises.
 
For sure, I've done that with a few jobs in my life already... it is amazing what a powerful motivator money is... There are studies that show how many people will do wrong if the money is enough and they "don't think" they'll get caught... it's something like 85% of people... not that many people will outright admit it, but they found with the ponzi schemes and other financial fraud that people just turned a blind eye...
 
cabinbuilder said:
Yes, the Nevada Gig. Looks like the main guy there is going to be indicted soon for Medicare and Medicaid fraud. I took my money and ran today. DO NOT want to be there when the Feds haul him away.

Seems I am destined to be a locums doctor forever which is totally fine by me. So I am off to Alaska for the summer to work. It's a beautiful thing.
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I don't practice in the US and A.

How do you defraud Medicare ? Bill for patients not seen ?

Charge for equipment not ordered ??
 
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ghost dog said:
How do you defraud Medicare ? Bill for patients not seen ?

Charge for equipment not ordered ??
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Basically, bill for stuff you didn't do, or overbill for stuff you did. There's more money in the former, particularly in DME.

There are people out there doing this to the tune of millions of dollars per year.
 
Blue Dog said:
Basically, bill for stuff you didn't do, or overbill for stuff you did. There's more money in the former, particularly in DME.

There are people out there doing this to the tune of millions of dollars per year.
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Yes, I found out that the guy wasn't even coming in to the ER to see the patients, just giving orders over the phone then billing the max amount for services. Also, he was changing the service level on charts that other providers had seen and then pocketing the difference. Very bad.

Add to that $300,000 in fines for EMTALA violations.

My last paycheck made it to my bank, crossing my fingers that it clears.
 
We're hoping it does too!

That sucks...
 
 
 
tiotropium said:
Just did a quick search for TX FM jobs and found a few lucrative ones:

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/868810

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/861810

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/846719

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/778793

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/832890

How realistic are these? Do these FMs consistently make what's stated? (250-300k)
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Holy crap: $280K for FOUR DAY work week in a state with NO STATE INCOME TAX??? Is this for real??? Can I sign up today???
 
My problem is having no desire to live in TX. It is for social-political reasons... I am from the North, I just don't think I could live there...
 
SBB2016 said:
My problem is having no desire to live in TX. It is for social-political reasons... I am from the North, I just don't think I could live there...
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Yes you could. I did my residency there and like you I never saw myself living in the South. I am not baptist and don't eat mexican food. I had the best time and the people are extremely gracious and polite. If it wasn't so dang hot I could live there forever. I go back frequently on my locums jobs so I get the best of both worlds.
 
tiotropium said:
Just did a quick search for TX FM jobs and found a few lucrative ones:

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/868810

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/861810

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/846719

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/778793

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/832890

How realistic are these? Do these FMs consistently make what's stated? (250-300k)
Click to expand...

notinkansas said:
Holy crap: $280K for FOUR DAY work week in a state with NO STATE INCOME TAX??? Is this for real??? Can I sign up today???
Click to expand...

I won't say much, but...

Holy $hit!
 
cabinbuilder said:
Yes you could. I did my residency there and like you I never saw myself living in the South. I am not baptist and don't eat mexican food. I had the best time and the people are extremely gracious and polite. If it wasn't so dang hot I could live there forever. I go back frequently on my locums jobs so I get the best of both worlds.
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Gracious and polite aren't the problem. It's the racial, homophobic, bible-beating that I have a problem with. I am sure that is a generalization, but I am very liberal, and those are things I cannot tolerate. If I lived there, I doubt I'd have very many friends...

CB, I found a few jobs in CO that said min salary over 200k, not entirely sure where they are, but I did find them... Either way, I would probably go to IA or SD before I'd go to TX... MJB, where (generally of course) is you're hometown?

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/colorado/875322

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/colorado/875317
 
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NE Kansas.

If you're willing to go to Western KS, well....let's just say it's REALLY rural.
I have a buddy who is a dentist in Quinter, KS. In his first year of practice, he paid off his practice and his house and his 110 acres.

He didn't pay off his loans in a big hurry because the gov't. is pretty much taking care of that for him and his wife (assistant).
 
Wow...
But I'd assume that land is SUPER cheap in that area as well? I assume it is like E. Colorado... Flat, boring, dry, windy... ;)
 
SBB2016 said:
Wow...
But I'd assume that land is SUPER cheap in that area as well? I assume it is like E. Colorado... Flat, boring, dry, windy... ;)
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Regardless of where you are at, land is a good investment. It generally only increases in value with time, plus you can make revenue off of the property by renting it out, etc. My father bought his land (~550 acres) 20 years ago for $300 an acre and its worth close to $2000 an acre right now, plus he can earn $100 an acre per year in rent on most of the property.
If you do end up doing rural practice, you could probably make a fairly decent amount off of owning and renting land in the area you work.
 
I have thought of this as well... Depends on where I am and how much land I can buy!!
 
MJB said:
FYI...that's possible where we used to knock around as well.

And I won't even start on what the docs in my hometown are making.
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Well.

Y'all deserve it. Family physicians really are the gate-keepers and keep up with the brunt of the paper work and overall patient health (and their family members too a lot of times). It's sad that in certain areas CRNAs make more than family physicians.
 
SBB2016 said:
Gracious and polite aren't the problem. It's the racial, homophobic, bible-beating that I have a problem with. I am sure that is a generalization, but I am very liberal, and those are things I cannot tolerate. If I lived there, I doubt I'd have very many friends...

QUOTE]

I thought this way too until I went there. I thing you are thinking about Alabama, and Mississippi more than TX. What is portrayed on TV and the movies just isn't the case.

I, too, didn't want to be harrassed by bible thumpers and anti-black folks. I will honestly say that I NEVER encountered anything like what you see in the movies. No one ever hassled me about religion. I have black friends and I have gay friends who live in TX.
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SBB2016 said:
Gracious and polite aren't the problem. It's the racial, homophobic, bible-beating that I have a problem with. I am sure that is a generalization, but I am very liberal, and those are things I cannot tolerate. If I lived there, I doubt I'd have very many friends...

CB, I found a few jobs in CO that said min salary over 200k, not entirely sure where they are, but I did find them... Either way, I would probably go to IA or SD before I'd go to TX... MJB, where (generally of course) is you're hometown?

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/colorado/875322

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/colorado/875317
Click to expand...

Whats worse, the few people who are hateful to minorities, or the self-righteous who wont consider moving to an entire region because you cannot tolerate what you perceive the people to be like? And Texans are narrow minded?

Texas wouldn't be my first choice of places to live, for training or a career, but given the right opportunity, I wouldn't turn it down.
 
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Apparently you skipped the part where I said I was sure it was a generalization. When TX stops talking about seceding and forming the republic of TX maybe I'll change my mind. Besides that, they elected GW Bush as governor, that's enough of a reason for me to stay away. And before you say something back, I really don't care what you think of my opinion. I won't ever live in Comiefornia either. Colorado is as far South as this girl will probably ever be...
 
SBB2016 said:
Apparently you skipped the part where I said I was sure it was a generalization. When TX stops talking about seceding and forming the republic of TX maybe I'll change my mind. Besides that, they elected GW Bush as governor, that's enough of a reason for me to stay away. And before you say something back, I really don't care what you think of my opinion. I won't ever live in Comiefornia either. Colorado is as far South as this girl will probably ever be...
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Didn't skip it...just amused by your judging an entire state as narrow minded and hateful. I'm sure you don't care about my opinion, nor do I care what you think about Texans or Californians.

People were just throwing out job locations. No need to make negative generalizations about people, a simple "Texas isn't for me thanks" gets the job done.

I'm not from the south...I've just been around here long enough (and married a Southerner) to take offense. I met just as many bigots at my liberal New England homestate as I have living in the south...including friends from both Alabama and Mississippi.
 
SBB2016 said:
Apparently you skipped the part where I said I was sure it was a generalization. When TX stops talking about seceding and forming the republic of TX maybe I'll change my mind. Besides that, they elected GW Bush as governor, that's enough of a reason for me to stay away. And before you say something back, I really don't care what you think of my opinion. I won't ever live in Comiefornia either. Colorado is as far South as this girl will probably ever be...
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I will speak for the Texans we don't want you and sure won't and don't need you. Have fun at that "for profit" degree mill you will be attending.

Your ignorance based on perception is saddening!
 
teacherman84 said:
Didn't skip it...just amused by your judging an entire state as narrow minded and hateful. I'm sure you don't care about my opinion, nor do I care what you think about Texans or Californians.

People were just throwing out job locations. No need to make negative generalizations about people, a simple "Texas isn't for me thanks" gets the job done.

I'm not from the south...I've just been around here long enough (and married a Southerner) to take offense. I met just as many bigots at my liberal New England homestate as I have living in the south...including friends from both Alabama and Mississippi.
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Dude.

We don't need everyone knowing that Texas is the place to be. Let 'em be. They can have their cities and their cosmos, I want no part of it.
 
Makati2008 said:
Lol touché on all accounts except the whole degree mill comment lol. Rvu is setting a dangerous precedent for stateside medical schools....
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I'm not excited about the for-profit nature of the school. However, my husband has a good job in Denver, and I didn't get into school in MN. I will choose RVU if it means getting to keep my family unit together.

CB, I didn't see your post for whatever reason, I am glad your experience was positive, it gives me hope. However, the information I have didn't come from TV/Movies.

Either way, clearly people now think I am evil because I choose to not live in certain places which I think is pretty damn unfair. Everyone has their reasons to live or not live somewhere, and it is their right. I would never live in city like NY or LA, or similar... I wouldn't want to ever live in Seattle, it's grey and depressing... Since I have a choice, my choice would be to stick to where I am, or where I am from... :p
 
Everyone, please keep it civil. Avoid personal comments about someone's choice on where they want to live, or negative comments about the school that someone went to. Also, comments like, "right back at you" add nothing to the discussion and just make things worse.

Thanks.
 
SBB2016 said:
I'm not excited about the for-profit nature of the school. However, my husband has a good job in Denver, and I didn't get into school in MN. I will choose RVU if it means getting to keep my family unit together.

CB, I didn't see your post for whatever reason, I am glad your experience was positive, it gives me hope. However, the information I have didn't come from TV/Movies.

Either way, clearly people now think I am evil because I choose to not live in certain places which I think is pretty damn unfair. Everyone has their reasons to live or not live somewhere, and it is their right. I would never live in city like NY or LA, or similar... I wouldn't want to ever live in Seattle, it's grey and depressing... Since I have a choice, my choice would be to stick to where I am, or where I am from... :p
Click to expand...

Well, I think we all have some fear of the unknown and that is just human nature. I don't think you are evil. I would not live in the big city either, just not my style. Just trying to let you know that the south is not a bad place to be because you never know what the future brings and I had to scramble into a slot site unseen and it just happened to be in the South and it worked out well. So my point is not to go into something fearful until you actually go and check it out personally then make a conscious decision about it. I went to NYC for one week and left faster than a rat on a sinking ship - just hated it soo much. But on the other hand, I love love Vegas and all the sights and sounds. Go figure.:rolleyes:
 
This is all really encouraging as one of my two main choices at this point is getting a plot of land in the country and being a small town doctor...I've been terrified that loans would price me out of it but this seems totally "doable"
 
tiotropium said:
Just did a quick search for TX FM jobs and found a few lucrative ones:

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/868810

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/861810

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/846719

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/778793

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/texas/832890

How realistic are these? Do these FMs consistently make what's stated? (250-300k)
Click to expand...

These incomes are certainly surprising. I don't practice in the US, but I was under the impression that American family MDs didn't make this kind of money. If they do, that's great!
 
ghost dog said:
These incomes are certainly surprising. I don't practice in the US, but I was under the impression that American family MDs didn't make this kind of money. If they do, that's great!
Click to expand...

I don't understand why they say that FM docs don't make money! 250/300k?! For FM? That's a ton! Can someone please tell me how this is not good $$?
 
cabinbuilder said:
SBB2016 said:
Gracious and polite aren't the problem. It's the racial, homophobic, bible-beating that I have a problem with. I am sure that is a generalization, but I am very liberal, and those are things I cannot tolerate. If I lived there, I doubt I'd have very many friends...

QUOTE]

I thought this way too until I went there. I thing you are thinking about Alabama, and Mississippi more than TX. What is portrayed on TV and the movies just isn't the case.

I, too, didn't want to be harrassed by bible thumpers and anti-black folks. I will honestly say that I NEVER encountered anything like what you see in the movies. No one ever hassled me about religion. I have black friends and I have gay friends who live in TX.
Click to expand...

I am licensed in both MS and Alabama; reimbursement is good in MS. I have heard it is not so good in Alabama due to the dominance of a single insurer. I have done some psychiatry (locum tenens) prison work in Alabama and enjoyed it. Race is a complicated topic in the south; there isn't a lot of overt racism anymore, especially in urban areas. Southerners are definitely more religious than northeners and a majority are against gay marriage.
Click to expand...
 
SBB2016 said:
Gracious and polite aren't the problem. It's the racial, homophobic, bible-beating that I have a problem with. I am sure that is a generalization, but I am very liberal, and those are things I cannot tolerate. If I lived there, I doubt I'd have very many friends...

CB, I found a few jobs in CO that said min salary over 200k, not entirely sure where they are, but I did find them... Either way, I would probably go to IA or SD before I'd go to TX... MJB, where (generally of course) is you're hometown?

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/colorado/875322

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/job-detail/family-practice/colorado/875317
Click to expand...

I'm always amused by people who claim to be tolerant but make assumptions and name call a whole group of people who they have not met. What part that is tolerant? It is very much an overgeneralization, and only a small percentage of people are actually like that. Open mindedness needs to work in both directions.
 
I'm curious....is the following fairly competitive and in line with what people are seeing?


20K sign on, 2K per month stipend for last year of residency. 200K guarantee for 2 years.

Possible HPSA repayment.

Midwest. Outpatient only. 20-25pts/day
 
MJB said:
I'm curious....is the following fairly competitive and in line with what people are seeing?


20K sign on, 2K per month stipend for last year of residency. 200K guarantee for 2 years.

Possible HPSA repayment.

Midwest. Outpatient only. 20-25pts/day
Click to expand...

This is close to what I have signed on before. Be aware that the "bonus" gets taxed so you don't get that 20K, it will be more like 11K. The 200K guarantee comes with the expectation that you will have enough patient base to switch to RVU's, then it's on you to see enough patients to produce your paycheck.

The POSSIBLE HPSA repayment is a crapshoot at best. I applied for it in 3 states, denied in all three. I don't trust it and I wouldn't plan on receiving it as part of your reason of taking the job. If you are one of the lucky ones - great.

Outpatient only. 20-25pts/day: They tell you this in the beginning, This is actually a lot of patients to see in one day for full scope FP if you want to do it right and if the population is elderly. Be sure to read the fine lines in the contract since they start you with this many patients with the expectation of seeing up to 40/day otherwise corporate hounds you about your production. Ask about that in the interview.


Sorry, Not trying to be negative but I have been burned so many times that it is my hope that others out there find a successful happy job that has been so elusive to me.
 
I obviously have no experience with this but for what it's worth if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. Good luck with your job search.
 
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