yet another thread...organ market?

[Shredder]

the apparent frequency with which im starting threads here is embarassing, but anyway

its disturbing that organ shortage is such a big problem. there is something fundamentally wrong with the economics there. is there anything i can do about it as a current undergrad?

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[SMC2UCLA2_]

the apparent frequency with which im starting threads here is embarassing, but anyway

its disturbing that organ shortage is such a big problem. there is something fundamentally wrong with the economics there. is there anything i can do about it as a current undergrad?

clone livers, then drink harder. Remember to match antigens.

 

[Shredder]

clone livers, then drink harder. Remember to match antigens.

i know i should be partying as an undergrad, but first of all im underage until march and 2nd im looking for something that will put me over the top of other applicants in my upcoming interviews, so i can go to an elite med/biz school and have an illustrious future. besides, there might be profit to be had?

 

[CTSballer11]

the apparent frequency with which im starting threads here is embarassing, but anyway

its disturbing that organ shortage is such a big problem. there is something fundamentally wrong with the economics there. is there anything i can do about it as a current undergrad?

I guess the current problem with organ shortage in this country can be attributed to a few things. First, things like end stage heart dissease, and other organ failures are biologically necessary. Second I think that about half of all people who die donate their organs. Think about it, if 90% of people donated their organs, we would have almost 2 time as many people recieving transplants a year. Not to sure how business could do anything here, but i could be wrong.

 

[DrBowtie]

I guess the current problem with organ shortage in this country can be attributed to a few things. First, things like end stage heart dissease, and other organ failures are biologically necessary. Second I think that about half of all people who die donate their organs. Think about it, if 90% of people donated their organs, we would have almost 2 time as many people recieving transplants a year. Not to sure how business could do anything here, but i could be wrong.

The business end would come from giving $$$ or other incentives to get the remaining ~50% of people to donate their organs thus the supply of organs and subsequent # of transplants would increase.

Short term project: This
Long Term Project: Organ Printing

 

[Shredder]

as a blanket statement, ill propose that all problems can be solved by properly manipulating incentives. the question is finding implementations for those incentives. long term solution is organ printing, but i wonder if theres anything we can do short term. wouldnt it be pretty cool to something big and badass like this, as undergrads somehow? its up there with making some major research breakthrough, basically the business analog. i find the cookie cutter premed formula unappealing, personally i think even trips to africa and such have become jaded. id love to do something radical

interesting phenomenon: money doesnt always cut it as the sole incentive to solve problems. there was a nursing shortage in recent years, so a medical center raised pay to attract more nurses. as a result, nurses started working fewer hours since they valued their leisure time more than the extra money. so the medical center had to offer other, non monetary benefits.

so, indeed if 90% of ppl donated organs things could be solved. but why arent they, and how do we get them to? i for one dont like pleading, id rather cut deals somehow so there are no favors being done. all of this also applies to blood donations. what if the govt simply legalizes blood and organ markets, and imposes massive punishments for evildoers?

 

[DrBowtie]

as a blanket statement, ill propose that all problems can be solved by properly manipulating incentives. the question is finding implementations for those incentives. long term solution is organ printing, but i wonder if theres anything we can do short term. wouldnt it be pretty cool to something big and badass like this, as undergrads somehow? its up there with making some major research breakthrough, basically the business analog. i find the cookie cutter premed formula unappealing, personally i think even trips to africa and such have become jaded. id love to do something radical

interesting phenomenon: money doesnt always cut it as the sole incentive to solve problems. there was a nursing shortage in recent years, so a medical center raised pay to attract more nurses. as a result, nurses started working fewer hours since they valued their leisure time more than the extra money. so the medical center had to offer other, non monetary benefits.

so, indeed if 90% of ppl donated organs things could be solved. but why arent they, and how do we get them to? i for one dont like pleading, id rather cut deals somehow so there are no favors being done. all of this also applies to blood donations. what if the govt simply legalizes blood and organ markets, and imposes massive punishments for evildoers?

I had an interesting econ prof in HS who proposed that due to the blood shortage a blood card based upon how much you donate is issued and entitles you to more/priority blood in case of an accident.

 

[CTSballer11]

as a blanket statement, ill propose that all problems can be solved by properly manipulating incentives. the question is finding implementations for those incentives. long term solution is organ printing, but i wonder if theres anything we can do short term. wouldnt it be pretty cool to something big and badass like this, as undergrads somehow? its up there with making some major research breakthrough, basically the business analog. i find the cookie cutter premed formula unappealing, personally i think even trips to africa and such have become jaded. id love to do something radical

interesting phenomenon: money doesnt always cut it as the sole incentive to solve problems. there was a nursing shortage in recent years, so a medical center raised pay to attract more nurses. as a result, nurses started working fewer hours since they valued their leisure time more than the extra money. so the medical center had to offer other, non monetary benefits.

so, indeed if 90% of ppl donated organs things could be solved. but why arent they, and how do we get them to? i for one dont like pleading, id rather cut deals somehow so there are no favors being done. all of this also applies to blood donations. what if the govt simply legalizes blood and organ markets, and imposes massive punishments for evildoers?

Monetary incentives alone would not solve the probelm, but it could definately help. I think people do not want to become donors because they think that doctors will give up on them so their organs can be donated to some else, completely false by the way. ( at least i hope it is ).

Do you mean that if the GOV legalized markets for organ donation, then a patient in need of organ donation would buy an organ off of the market? So would the organs be at a set price, or would they go to the highest bidder?

 

[Shredder]

Do you mean that if the GOV legalized markets for organ donation, then a patient in need of organ donation would buy an organ off of the market? So would the organs be at a set price, or would they go to the highest bidder?

im all about auctioning, its the most efficient way to distribute goods. i think thats why ebay is so phenomenally successful, bc its so economically sound. imagine if stocks were distributed at set prices. i think even hot ticket items like furbies or beanie babies should be sold at dynamic prices in retail stores. set prices cant work bc smart scalpers buy up all of the cheap ones and establish the proper prices on the fly

 

[CTSballer11]

im all about auctioning, its the most efficient way to distribute goods. i think thats why ebay is so phenomenally successful, bc its so economically sound. imagine if stocks were distributed at set prices. i think even hot ticket items like furbies or beanie babies should be sold at dynamic prices in retail stores. set prices cant work bc smart scalpers buy up all of the cheap ones and establish the proper prices on the fly

This is true, but I do not think this would solve the probem of organ donation shortage, the people who could afford to put up a ton of money for an organ would do so and the people who are less fortunate would not be able to afford it. Second there would be massive amounts of corruption if there is not a higher body regulating this. I am not a big gov guy but i can see the problems coming. Good topic to discuss.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

This is true, but I do not think this would solve the probem of organ donation shortage, the people who could afford to put up a ton of money for an organ would do so and the people who are less fortunate would not be able to afford it. Second there would be massive amounts of corruption if there is not a higher body regulating this. I am not a big gov guy but i can see the problems coming. Good topic to discuss.

I picture mobsters heading south of the border with vans full of coolers packed with ice. They head down to Tijuana, make a couple of whacks, then head to UCSD Med for dropoff and payout.

If you have some sort of "legitimate" private corporation serving as the distributor (middleman) between the hospital and the organ donor, what stops them from hiring hitmen to obtain their goods?

 

[Shredder]

I had an interesting econ prof in HS who proposed that due to the blood shortage a blood card based upon how much you donate is issued and entitles you to more/priority blood in case of an accident.

brett i didnt address this earlier but i saw it and ive been thinking about it a lot. i even brought the topic up in my interview and had some discussion. i like the idea for blood and organs, my interviewer coincidentally had the same idea. it makes me wonder why it isnt enacted already. i wonder what barriers might be in place that are preventing it from happening. perhaps the priority could even be transferable to family members as additionall incentive? that might get tricky, better keep things simple for starters. anyway im going to look into it

it seems immune to the mobster idea

 

[TheMightyAngus]

brett i didnt address this earlier but i saw it and ive been thinking about it a lot. i even brought the topic up in my interview and had some discussion. i like the idea for blood and organs, my interviewer coincidentally had the same idea. it makes me wonder why it isnt enacted already. i wonder what barriers might be in place that are preventing it from happening. perhaps the priority could even be transferable to family members as additionall incentive? that might get tricky, better keep things simple for starters. anyway im going to look into it

it seems immune to the mobster idea

Like people who donate blood have first crack at organs?

One problem would be discrimination against people with blood-borne diseases and others who are excluded from donating blood (e.g. they lived in the UK for a short period of time, chronic anemia, etc).

 

[CTSballer11]

Like people who donate blood have first crack at organs?

One problem would be discrimination against people with blood-borne diseases and others who are excluded from donating blood (e.g. they lived in the UK for a short period of time, chronic anemia, etc).

That is true, but you might as well give these people amnesty, and treat them like the people who donate blood, that seems like the only fair way to settle it.

 

[Shredder]

Like people who donate blood have first crack at organs?

One problem would be discrimination against people with blood-borne diseases and others who are excluded from donating blood (e.g. they lived in the UK for a short period of time, chronic anemia, etc).

i agree, i did think of that as a potential problem. well ppl who donate blood could have first crack at blood, and those who agree to donate organs could have the same for organs. or they could be intertwined, dunno, but the idea is the same. honestly i never donate blood right now, the cookies they give just are not enough incentive. but i just might if a good system such as this were implemented. hell, id do it to compete with my friends to see who is the greater donor. maybe premeds could start putting on their apps "premium blood donor" and compete for gallons instead of volunteer hours. imagine the resulting surplus

im not really sure how to get around the discrimination problem. its hard to implement systems when all of the exceptions are considered, but i dont think they should be reasons to hold things up for the greater good. and lets not forget the g4ys

 

[DrBowtie]

I think that a way around the issue is that people who are always disqualified could get an exemption by completing the pre-screening test given by the red cross and certify that they cannot give.
The only issue would be where the would fall in the continuum of givers? Above the non-givers only? Above the minimal donor/year? Details would need to be hammered out but the system does have its benefits.

Not too sure how the organ transplant would work since the source isn't replenishable.

Another idea would be for scheduled surgeries I know you can have people go and donate blood in your name for your surgery. Having the family do this or pay a fee per pint for the blood that then the fee gets passed on to the donor. Rarer blood types would cost more as per supply and demand.

This would encourage donors and hopefully help gain a surplus for emergency cases.

What do you guys think?

 

[Shredder]

I think that a way around the issue is that people who are always disqualified could get an exemption by completing the pre-screening test given by the red cross and certify that they cannot give.
The only issue would be where the would fall in the continuum of givers? Above the non-givers only? Above the minimal donor/year? Details would need to be hammered out but the system does have its benefits.

Not too sure how the organ transplant would work since the source isn't replenishable.

Another idea would be for scheduled surgeries I know you can have people go and donate blood in your name for your surgery. Having the family do this or pay a fee per pint for the blood that then the fee gets passed on to the donor. Rarer blood types would cost more as per supply and demand.

This would encourage donors and hopefully help gain a surplus for emergency cases.

What do you guys think?

this issue has taken up my interest for sure and its perfect for med biz. i see merits in all of these ideas...is there any way for us to enact anything as undergrads? it would really set us apart as premeds and do a lot of good. well you guys might be busy with classes, research, and/or mcat, but im looking for something to occupy my time lately. ill talk with some profs and try to post some good reading, starting with this...coincidentally im interviewing here next week+angus you already:

http://www.upenn.edu/ldi/issuebrief9_5.pdf
+heres the investigator, good example of an md/mba career

 

[CTSballer11]

this issue has taken up my interest for sure and its perfect for med biz. i see merits in all of these ideas...is there any way for us to enact anything as undergrads? it would really set us apart as premeds and do a lot of good. well you guys might be busy with classes, research, and/or mcat, but im looking for something to occupy my time lately. ill talk with some profs and try to post some good reading, starting with this...coincidentally im interviewing here next week+angus you already:

http://www.upenn.edu/ldi/issuebrief9_5.pdf
+heres the investigator, good example of an md/mba career

That is very interesting. As you mentioned earlier there is just not enough incentive to donate blood. You would think buy now that the market would call for incentives for organ donation, blood donation etc.