You vs you - how far have you come in 10 years

[Tenk]

Similar, but different. Keep the headpiece, lose the chainmail skirt.

Actually, since we know each other, think: Lee Chaolan, but with Paul Phoenix's pecs and shoulders.

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[forchinet121]

Low 7 figures is 1-1.2M. This is roughly 90th percentile comp for Ortho btw.

Yeah that’s what I figured but wanted to clarify, great work you deserve it with all of the lives you’re changing, ortho is awesome.

 

[luckybuck]

I have no idea why that person gave you a dislike.

Just jealous, thats all. Good for him.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Low 7 figures is 1-1.2M. This is roughly 90th percentile comp for Ortho btw.

I should have been an ortho doc. Why didn’t any of you guys knock some sense into me???

 

[wareagle726]

.

They're are a handful of words that people use incorrectly that make me loose my mind. Seriously, it takes my breathe away when people do this. I know its just a pet peeve of mine and I should probably just say that I could care less and let it slide. I can't. It bugs me alot.

I'm sorry. I can't let it slide. I just can't. Everything in me wants to not be petty but in the context of your message I can't. Thought about ignoring it but nope. Kinda like when people say nucular, or whatever rendition of metoprolol. I'm not mature enough to let it slide.

If you said you could care less that implies you do care.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Low 7 figures is 1-1.2M. This is roughly 90th percentile comp for Ortho btw.

Kind of surprised you’re not worth more with that income. You live in a high cost of living area?

You’ll probably hit the 8 figure net worth club in 10 years if you keep going at it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Bought an established niche ecommerce store from flippa in the lgbtq space. It was an automated dropship store where cjdropshipping was used to fulfill orders.

It had lifetime sales of 200k over 2.5 years, but a very decent drop in sales over the last year so seller had the website posted for 10k. It came with 36k organic Instagram followers and an email list of 10k people. It seemed like an incredible price point for purchase, so i negotiated seller down to 8k and pulled the trigger.

My plan was to add an etsy store and eBay store, re start FB ads - it took a lot of times to import listings to etsy and ebay. The customer service emails were dreadful - a lot of quality issues since it was all cheap Chinese things being sold there - like the cost of the best selling ring was actually $6 landed straight to the customer and it was being sold for $29.99 on the site. But the emails of people complaining that a stone came out, sometimes even 6 months after purchase were so time consuming that i wanted to get out. Order fulfillment usually took 1 minute and about 5 clicks. That was the nice part about the website.

I turned around and sold the site for 16k after owning it for 1 month. I didn’t know much about the lgbtq niche, but honestly the store was being sold for so little that i felt there was money to be made.

Sounds cool. Oddly my dream purchase is a coin laundromat. I think this is a crazy niche with great returns and minimal labor costs. Havent found one I liked.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Kind of surprised you’re not worth more with that income. You live in a high cost of living area?

You’ll probably hit the 8 figure net worth club in 10 years if you keep going at it.

Only 3.5 years out. Paid of 420k worth of student loans in 1.5 years. Not trying to accumulate significant chunks but very grateful to be in this position for sure.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Still living like a resident mostly, haven’t expanded my lifestyle much, but really because of being Ortho. Have made between high six figures and now low 7 figures in all of last 3 years.

Are you just working your a** off from an hours perspective? How are you hitting 90th percentile so early in your career.

Ive always thought of other specialties where you slowly grow your patient base over time and grow your income. EM has always been the exception to the rule where a day 1 grad will get paid similar to a 20 year veteran. What’s more impressive than your net worth is how you’ve achieved 90th percentile income for your specialty just 3 years out.

Are you fellowship trained? Are you essentially a spine guy? Because most orthopods are usually in the 500-800k range.

What’s your special sauce for being in the top range of your specialty?

 

[forchinet121]

Are you just working your a** off from an hours perspective? How are you hitting 90th percentile so early in your career.

Ive always thought of other specialties where you slowly grow your patient base over time and grow your income. EM has always been the exception to the rule where a day 1 grad will get paid similar to a 20 year veteran. What’s more impressive than your net worth is how you’ve achieved 90th percentile income for your specialty just 3 years out.

Are you fellowship trained? Are you essentially a spine guy? Because most orthopods are usually in the 500-800k range.

What’s your special sauce for being in the top range of your specialty?

If you are a partner in a surgery center you can easily make 1 or 2M, these surgical specialists are in a different league than us mere employees because they are owners in addition to wage slaves

 

[BoardingDoc]

I'm sorry. I can't let it slide. I just can't. Everything in me wants to not be petty but in the context of your message I can't. Thought about ignoring it but nope. Kinda like when people say nucular, or whatever rendition of metoprolol. I'm not mature enough to let it slide.

If you said you could care less that implies you do care.

Yeah man. That was the entire point of my post. You may have also noted my egregious use of: They're, loose, breathe, its, and alot.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Sounds cool. Oddly my dream purchase is a coin laundromat. I think this is a crazy niche with great returns and minimal labor costs. Havent found one I liked.

I’ve looked at these as well. I occasionally go through listings on bizbuysell.com and see if i like something.

I’m also checking out restaurant franchises these days as well, actually seriously considered buying a marcos pizza franchise a few months ago too. But then chickened out because of the idea of how much time and effort it would take. And since i have absolutely no restaurant experience.

Sticking with what i know best. I just haven’t found the equivalent business that has given me the same return for minimal effort compared to options and passive real estate. YTD gains for the month of January haven’t been too bad see attached.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Are you just working your a** off from an hours perspective? How are you hitting 90th percentile so early in your career.

Ive always thought of other specialties where you slowly grow your patient base over time and grow your income. EM has always been the exception to the rule where a day 1 grad will get paid similar to a 20 year veteran. What’s more impressive than your net worth is how you’ve achieved 90th percentile income for your specialty just 3 years out.

Are you fellowship trained? Are you essentially a spine guy? Because most orthopods are usually in the 500-800k range.

What’s your special sauce for being in the top range of your specialty?

I’m fellowship trained ortho trauma with an elective arthroplasty practice. I hit the ground running from day 1. plenty of fractures to be fixed. Elective arthroplasty practice is now maturing and is now roughly 30 percent of my practice. Also plenty of call to be covered between 3 trauma centers I cover, most of which is paid. I’m employed by a large health system on RVU model. Get additional call pay for covering level 1 and level 2 call. Working pretty hard.

Key to get busy is to be available, be competent, and be pleasant. Being a trauma surgeon in a busy area is also a factor, as most non trauma orthopods don’t want to take call or fix complex fractures, including my own partners.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I’m fellowship trained ortho trauma with an elective arthroplasty practice. I hit the ground running from day 1. plenty of fractures to be fixed. Elective arthroplasty practice is now maturing and is now roughly 30 percent of my practice. Also plenty of call to be covered between 3 trauma centers I cover, most of which is paid. I’m employed by a large health system on RVU model. Get additional call pay for covering level 1 and level 2 call. Working pretty hard.

Key to get busy is to be available, be competent, and be pleasant. Being a trauma surgeon in a busy area is also a factor, as most non trauma orthopods don’t want to take call or fix complex fractures, including my own partners.

Good for you. Just don’t burn yourself out working too much.

 

[emergentmd]

This thread is a breath of fresh air and a nice departure from the constant EM complaints(which are real). Nice to see the best aspect of EM which is flexibility allowing for non clinical ventures..

2013 emergentsea 12 yrs post residency- 3 kids (4,2,newborn,). SDG partner, EM Department chair, Income typically 500k/yr working a hard 140hrs/month + meetings with nonsensical admin. SDG being threatened with a buyout by CMG. No debt other than home. Net worth about 1M all in stocks. I felt like I was just spinning my wheels and saving about 100k/yr which was great but just seemed like a slow climb staring at another 20 yrs of EM before retiring. The 1st 1M sure took a long time with only 150K educational debt.

2023 emergentsea - 3 kids (14,12,10). SDG got force buyout soon after persistent threats setting up the pivotal point of my life. I decided to leave the safety of the 500K job and transitioned into Locums+FSER ownership. Very lucky to have a supportive wife who essentially let me decide while she took on the harder job of being a stay at home mom. I have been FIRE aorund 2 yrs ago and transitioning to 60 FSER hrs/mo soon. Net worth 8M (1.5M stocks, 2.5M business, 5M investment properties). I told myself to slow down on RE investing but couldn't resist buying another lake property and looking at a 300K renovation soon.

During this past decade, not every investment works out. You have to fail to succeed. Invested in a few businesses that failed spectacularly. I have looked into some nonclinical businesses, but the numbers just do not make sense compared to just putting money back in my current ventures.

My 2013 self would be shocked at 2023 me. Things have gone so smoothly that i fear some bumps must be around the corner. I see family members and friends younger than me having lots of medical issues which has pushed me to slow down and enjoy life.

 

[emergentmd]

Oddly my dream purchase is a coin laundromat

I looked into this and unless you have someone do the work for you, it can be very time consuming. Its not all smooth sailing collecting quarters all day. Machines break, robberies happen, people complain, people vandalize. The headache seems to outweigh any "passive" income.

 

[devlyyn]

Fun thread.

2013-- Year I graduated medical school and started residency. Married for 5 years and first child less than 1yr old. Moved from Florida to Pennsylvania. Excited and nervous about the change. Net worth probably -$200k, renting, owned both cars outright, no other debt.

2023-- Live in Texas now, working at the same job I started out of residency. Now progressing on a leadership track. Have two children now, both excelling in school. Started investing in real estate a few years ago, wife very active in this and enjoys it. Paid off student loans about 2 years post residency, only debt now is real estate debt. Net worth around $1.6M, targeting consistent net RE income of $10k/mo. Hope to be able to significantly cut back on clinical hours within the next few years (almost 7 yrs out of residency), and hopefully be able to walk away if I wanted to within the next 10.

 

[bravotwozero]

ten years ago, I was an EM PGY-1 halfway through intern year, getting my bearings at my knife and gun trauma II residency in metro Detroit. It made for an incredible experience, but I was in 300k debt. Due to couples matching not working out for me and my wife, my wife ended up in Galveston, and I ended up in Detroit. Made for a tough three years - honestly, I'm still amazed that our marriage survived this.

Fast forward to now, I'm at my 3rd full time job since finishing residency in Texas, and while I dearly miss my colleagues at my former job, I'm much happier, mostly due to the absence of extreme micromanaging that burned me out of my first job. 330k Student loans are ancient history. About 30k away from paying off our 2900 sq feet house. Low cost of living and no state income tax has certainly been helpful. Net assets are just above 1 mill including house, mostly assets invested into the stock market. Have two wonderful kids. Since my wife works part time, we'll frequently get weekdays off together, and it's almost like having a weekend together with kids in school. Helps tremendously with maintaining work life balance, which is being used to spend five days a week hitting the gym, and cooking many of my own meals.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

For med students / residents reading this, I hope you're paying attention to the various themes and lessons here:

-Aggressive payment of student debt
-Aggressive investing into the stock market / RE
-Avoidance of bad debt such as consumer debt
-Geographic arbitrage to avoid high state taxes (man I wish I had this one)
-Reasonable spending on housing

For every person posting their success, there's probably a few lurking who has not been so successful for various reasons. My buddy from residency has about 500k less net worth than I do despite having less loan burden.

What hasn't really been touched on, is the importance of spousal selection. Please please please consider a prenuptual agreement if you are the bread winner. You really do not want to be that 40 year old doctor who loses 1M or more in a divorce.

 

[EctopicFetus]

For med students / residents reading this, I hope you're paying attention to the various themes and lessons here:

-Aggressive payment of student debt
-Aggressive investing into the stock market / RE
-Avoidance of bad debt such as consumer debt
-Geographic arbitrage to avoid high state taxes (man I wish I had this one)
-Reasonable spending on housing

For every person posting their success, there's probably a few lurking who has not been so successful for various reasons. My buddy from residency has about 500k less net worth than I do despite having less loan burden.

What hasn't really been touched on, is the importance of spousal selection. Please please please consider a prenuptual agreement if you are the bread winner. You really do not want to be that 40 year old doctor who loses 1M or more in a divorce.

Agreed having a supportive spouse who isn’t a pushover has helped me be wise in my use of our money and my time. There are no shortage of opportunities. Be mindful about which you pick. Younger me looked at return and my effort but I felt like I had time mostly because I wanted alternative income sources. Now that I have them I look at investments that require little to no time of my own.

I hustled hard to create a side biz and hustled less to get some investment properties.

Both are very passive for me. Future investments will have to be the same. Make sure your spouse is on board with financial decisions.

 

[wareagle726]

Yeah man. That was the entire point of my post. You may have also noted my egregious use of: They're, loose, breathe, its, and alot.

Gah no I didn't catch that. I've been made. I went straight for that line LOL. Well played.

 

[WilcoWorld]

.

They're are a handful of words that people use incorrectly that make me loose my mind. Seriously, it takes my breathe away when people do this. I know its just a pet peeve of mine and I should probably just say that I could care less and let it slide. I can't. It bugs me alot.

Whops, carelisssnes on my part. God pickup.

 

[RustedFox]

For med students / residents reading this, I hope you're paying attention to the various themes and lessons here:

-Aggressive payment of student debt
-Aggressive investing into the stock market / RE
-Avoidance of bad debt such as consumer debt
-Geographic arbitrage to avoid high state taxes (man I wish I had this one)
-Reasonable spending on housing

For every person posting their success, there's probably a few lurking who has not been so successful for various reasons. My buddy from residency has about 500k less net worth than I do despite having less loan burden.

What hasn't really been touched on, is the importance of spousal selection. Please please please consider a prenuptual agreement if you are the bread winner. You really do not want to be that 40 year old doctor who loses 1M or more in a divorce.

A word on pre-nupts: there are about a dozen or so ways to invalidate them. They're NOT as helpful as most think.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

A word on pre-nupts: there are about a dozen or so ways to invalidate them. They're NOT as helpful as most think.

Oh definitely. You have to do it correctly, and even still, might be invalidated.

But for the Normies who say "omgggzz marriage is the only way to have a family and kiddsszzzzz" it is better than nothing.

 

[Interpolfanclub]

Good thread. 10 yrs ago I was a new attending, no kids. Probably 0 NW. Now have 2 kids, been married 13 yrs. I have always been pretty happy with EM, I still enjoy the medicine and am fortunate to be well paid and have a really good patient population who are often very sick and usually pretty appreciative. Very functional hospital also. I have done lots of admin and leadership in the past but don't anymore and that is for the best, it was contributing significantly to burnout. No one really understands the job like frontline full-time ED docs. I work about 145 hrs/month clinically with zero admin and its headaches. Very active in my kids' lives and have a great marriage.

NW almost 2MM. I was a VERY good saver first 10 years out of residency. Small house, maxed retirement, low spend etc and it put me in a great place financially. I could probably stop throwing money at 401k now and still retire in mid 50s if I want. I've actually cut way back on retirement accounts and now keep as cash and buy real estate and enjoy life. Spending has increased substantially in last 5 years but I'm ok with that since I saved so much before. Very disciplined with personal budget and track ALL expenses to the penny. Have several investment properties and will buy more. Your investment goals need to align with strategy and mine weren't. I feel better about having cash flowing assets than I did hoping to save up a huge retirement account balance and just hoping it sustains me through retirement. I love real estate and entrepreneurship and have made good friends in the RE community. Tremendously enjoy having business partners. Still grinding it out full time but would like to be half time in 5 years (late 40s) and financially free in 10 (early 50s.) I think it's probably doable.

 

[miacomet]

This thread is a breath of fresh air and a nice departure from the constant EM complaints(which are real). Nice to see the best aspect of EM which is flexibility allowing for non clinical ventures..

2013 emergentsea 12 yrs post residency- 3 kids (4,2,newborn,). SDG partner, EM Department chair, Income typically 500k/yr working a hard 140hrs/month + meetings with nonsensical admin. SDG being threatened with a buyout by CMG. No debt other than home. Net worth about 1M all in stocks. I felt like I was just spinning my wheels and saving about 100k/yr which was great but just seemed like a slow climb staring at another 20 yrs of EM before retiring. The 1st 1M sure took a long time with only 150K educational debt.

2023 emergentsea - 3 kids (14,12,10). SDG got force buyout soon after persistent threats setting up the pivotal point of my life. I decided to leave the safety of the 500K job and transitioned into Locums+FSER ownership. Very lucky to have a supportive wife who essentially let me decide while she took on the harder job of being a stay at home mom. I have been FIRE aorund 2 yrs ago and transitioning to 60 FSER hrs/mo soon. Net worth 8M (1.5M stocks, 2.5M business, 5M investment properties). I told myself to slow down on RE investing but couldn't resist buying another lake property and looking at a 300K renovation soon.

During this past decade, not every investment works out. You have to fail to succeed. Invested in a few businesses that failed spectacularly. I have looked into some nonclinical businesses, but the numbers just do not make sense compared to just putting money back in my current ventures.

My 2013 self would be shocked at 2023 me. Things have gone so smoothly that i fear some bumps must be around the corner. I see family members and friends younger than me having lots of medical issues which has pushed me to slow down and enjoy life.

How long do you plan on keeping the rentals? Are they STR or LTR?

 

[bky3c]

2013:
--Third year out of residency
--Living downtown in a tiny townhouse with a 6 pound dog in a large city (home purchased just prior to intern year).
--Had been dating my now-husband for a year.
--Very negative net worth thanks to student loans and mortgage.
--Working for a group that was about to get bought out by TeamHealth. Contemplating switching to full-time locums.
--Miserable, stressed, and tired all the time. Used to sit in my car in the hospital parking lot dreading my shift.

2023:
--Third year of early retirement
--Living in a big house with a big yard in a different state (LCOL, no state income tax)
--Married almost 6 years. No kids by choice, but we have three very happy dogs (still have the 6-pounder plus two that look like the one in @Major 's photo (black German Shepherds) ).
--Net worth ~2M, assisted by making the leap to full-time locums and following the money, as well as consistently investing in index funds. Mortgage is down to less than what I paid for that tiny townhouse, and we're not racing to pay it off since the interest rate is super low. Student loans are gone. Husband continues to make his 6-figure salary while we let our retirement savings grow from FIRE to fatFIRE levels.
--Happy, low stress, no fatigue now that the puppies are all grown up! And no, I'm never bored despite not working anymore.

 

[miacomet]

2013:
--Third year out of residency
--Living downtown in a tiny townhouse with a 6 pound dog in a large city (home purchased just prior to intern year).
--Had been dating my now-husband for a year.
--Very negative net worth thanks to student loans and mortgage.
--Working for a group that was about to get bought out by TeamHealth. Contemplating switching to full-time locums.
--Miserable, stressed, and tired all the time. Used to sit in my car in the hospital parking lot dreading my shift.

2023:
--Third year of early retirement
--Living in a big house with a big yard in a different state (LCOL, no state income tax)
--Married almost 6 years. No kids by choice, but we have three very happy dogs (still have the 6-pounder plus two that look like the one in @Major 's photo (black German Shepherds) ).
--Net worth ~2M, assisted by making the leap to full-time locums and following the money, as well as consistently investing in index funds. Mortgage is down to less than what I paid for that tiny townhouse, and we're not racing to pay it off since the interest rate is super low. Student loans are gone. Husband continues to make his 6-figure salary while we let our retirement savings grow from FIRE to fatFIRE levels.
--Happy, low stress, no fatigue now that the puppies are all grown up! And no, I'm never bored despite not working anymore.

Similar situation although partner makes less. Feel guilty that I should pick up some locums.

 

[xaelia]

Working part-time and having a diversified portfolio of compensated responsibilities at work has made a ton of difference in my career – perhaps not in the "net worth" department, but at least in the professional longevity aspect.

At Kaiser, I did resource utilisation and clinical appropriateness evaluations, precision medicine initiatives, and chaired the IRB. Here in New Zealand, I've picked up fully salary-supported informatics and quality review appointments at the Ministry of Health.

I think EM is unique in that it gives you the capability of having a lot of non-medical life, even if the actual clinical work is somewhat invariant.

 

[EctopicFetus]

When this thread ages a little more we should have a “where will you be in 10 years” would be fun to look back at it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cyanide12345678]

When this thread ages a little more we should have a “where will you be in 10 years” would be fun to look back at it. Just my 2 cents.

Time to edit my initial post?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Time to edit my initial post?

Or start a new one. Your show.

 

[dchristismi]

Spousal selection is huge.
I left out the "had already paid half of the 100K in alimony" from mine. I did mention the therapy and the divorce. But staying would have been far more expensive that leaving. It had already taken a huge toll on my mental health. If I'd pulled the trigger as a resident, that wouldn't have happened, but we all know how exhausting residency is and I was mostly just trying to survive at that point.

 

[emergentmd]

How long do you plan on keeping the rentals? Are they STR or LTR?

Unless I need the $$$, probably forever and pass it down to my kids. Based on value/cash flow my STR>>>MTR>LTR. My 9 properties are valued around $7M with 2M in mortgages. I hope to pay them all off in the next 5 yrs, and will cash flow about 300K/yr which would be a great passive flow for my kids. I also have about 700K in apt syndications and if I can grow this to 1.5M in the next 5 yrs will cashflow another 120K.

 

[emergentmd]

Spousal selection is huge.
I left out the "had already paid half of the 100K in alimony" from mine. I did mention the therapy and the divorce. But staying would have been far more expensive that leaving. It had already taken a huge toll on my mental health. If I'd pulled the trigger as a resident, that wouldn't have happened, but we all know how exhausting residency is and I was mostly just trying to survive at that point.

Having a supportive spouse is underestimated as it pertains to wealth. My wife is super supportive and lets me make all decisions. She just cares that the bank has money and she can spend as she pleases which works out well for our family.

My uncle about 20 yrs ago was offered a 200+ unit apt complex in Austin for 2M. It was probably a C property but the bank had a loan set up for him to purchase/renovate. That same property now would be worth 40M but his dumb ex wife didn't allow him to purchase it. These opportunities comes once in a lifetime and without a supportive spouse can kill these deals.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Having a supportive spouse is underestimated as it pertains to wealth. My wife is super supportive and lets me make all decisions. She just cares that the bank has money and she can spend as she pleases which works out well for our family.

My uncle about 20 yrs ago was offered a 200+ unit apt complex in Austin for 2M. It was probably a C property but the bank had a loan set up for him to purchase/renovate. That same property now would be worth 40M but his dumb ex wife didn't allow him to purchase it. These opportunities comes once in a lifetime and without a supportive spouse can kill these deals.

Can you share which sponsors you invest with for syndications?

 

[miacomet]

Having a supportive spouse is underestimated as it pertains to wealth. My wife is super supportive and lets me make all decisions. She just cares that the bank has money and she can spend as she pleases which works out well for our family.

My uncle about 20 yrs ago was offered a 200+ unit apt complex in Austin for 2M. It was probably a C property but the bank had a loan set up for him to purchase/renovate. That same property now would be worth 40M but his dumb ex wife didn't allow him to purchase it. These opportunities comes once in a lifetime and without a supportive spouse can kill these deals.

Luckily for your wife you are smart with money...not always the case

 

[WilcoWorld]

Spousal selection is huge.
I left out the "had already paid half of the 100K in alimony" from mine. I did mention the therapy and the divorce. But staying would have been far more expensive that leaving. It had already taken a huge toll on my mental health. If I'd pulled the trigger as a resident, that wouldn't have happened, but we all know how exhausting residency is and I was mostly just trying to survive at that point.

Just want to tweak this to say "don't be afraid to change course" instead of "pick the right spouse". I'm divorced, but I don't think it's because I selected the wrong spouse - moreover, nobody picks the wrong one on purpose! I think in my case it's because my spouse changed tremendously in the decade after we got married.

I lost more than half my net worth in the divorce, and yeah it sucked, but my kids and I are far better off now (and probably my ex is better off? I dunno, her personal life's none of my business anymore!).

Willie Nelson said "do you know why divorce is so expensive? Because it's worth it."

 

[emergentmd]

Luckily for your wife you are smart with money...not always the case

Yes, we work well together and know each others strength and weaknesses.

 

[WilcoWorld]

+1 for choosing the right spouse. Had some friends in residency whose significant others pulled the whole “you need to pay for this because you have the money/will have the money or “we must relocate to this area because of so and so and I don’t care how much of a paycut you take.” Luckily my fiance is low maintenance and allowed us to relocate within reason and doesn’t expect me to spend much on her. End result is I’m making more money working less hours and seeing less pph and investing nearly all of it compared to most people from my residency class.

I don't mean to be a downer, but you don't have a spouse - you have a fiance. Maaaaaybe don't put that +1 in the ten year thread just yet.

That said, I agree it is better to surround oneself with frugality than with profligacy.

 

[namethatsmell]

Me 10 years ago: Just some dude with six figure debt. Aside from knowing how to live frugally, I had no concept of how to invest or manage money. My then GF had a crazy work schedule and though we lived together we'd routinely go a week at a time without seeing each other, and she was OK with it. As such, I figured after residency I could make a career in EM locums working wherever had the most as the sun was shining brightly on EM. No idea and no real cares where life would lead other than I wanted to travel extensively.

Then till now: Still some dude and rather than go chronologically, I'll start with the most curious thing-- one day, a random medical catastrophe paid me a visit. Possible outcomes included being permanently+severely disabled or death. As this was playing out, I asked my GF to leave me and find somebody else...and she refused. Once I knew this medical rarity was in the rear-view mirror and wouldn't impact my life/lifespan I went about marrying her. As others have said, the importance of picking the right spouse cannot be understated. This episode changed my life outlook and goals, very much for the better.

Returning to the timeline--after residency I worked in a variety of EDs and non-EM settings and travelled extensively. Was offered "partnerships" and partnerships and directorships, etc but passed. Also entertained some non-clinical jobs but declined. Realized what I was really searching for were some new work horizons/challenges and did a pain fellowship. Kept toes in EM waters for awhile (and still credentialed at ~10 hospitals ughhhhh) though currently only do pain. The field really is as much art as it is science which is cool and have a job where everybody is on the same page regarding opioids and so they're almost never prescribed. Current gig has some admin responsibilities I wish I could eliminate and instead see more patients as I actually like the majority of them, and watching them get better remains gratifying. Also learned a ton about personal finance and saving/investing. For many years I drove the FIRE train extremely hard and have a NW I'd never have thought possible when I was a med student. Now with 2 young kids I'm trying to learn to loosen the purse-strings a bit. But it's something I suck at and hope to find some better balance with going forward. The other thing the FIRE quest did is show me that I probably don't ever want to stop working, at least in some capacity. I just never want to feel trapped in a job I don't like...ever. Having the financal freedom to be able to tell a predatory CMG (that raped and pillaged one of happiest ERs I ever worked) to eff-off when they kept dangling more and more $ in front of me to try to get me to stay in the shop they destroyed remains one of my most treasured professional growth moments.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Now with 2 young kids I'm trying to learn to loosen the purse-strings a bit. But it's something I suck at and hope to find some better balance with going forward.

I have had similar issues. I'd been pushing full steam ahead towards being able to retire as early as humanly possible. While that would certainly be nice, I came to the realization that I would infinitely rather retire at ~58 having lived a reasonably indulgent lifestyle where I didn't worry about money, instead of retiring at ~53 having lived an aggressively frugal lifestyle.

 

[beebermd]

2013: I was right out of residency. $250k in med school debt. approved for a 750k mortgage on a house on water on a 40k year residency salary. lol. started right off working 12 12s @ 265/hr and an assistant medical director.

interim: worked in underserved area 40 min from my house.....state paid off med school debt. lucked out in FSED craze and within 4 years was making 1.1-2 mil/yr. Lived well below means. saved alot. Cars are passion of mine....bought a lambo and a couple of others. Had a 3yo son diagnosed with cancer.

2023: Just finished 500k remodel on our house. Built a weekend getaway house on the beach for me and my family. Have literally no debt. 3yo is now a 11yo and cancer free. Just turned 40 and am now branching out to other aspects of medicine like cosmetic surgery and hospice. Also looking at things not even related to medicine, like a pickleball complex. lol. The ER is soooooooo much better when you have other options availible. It can absolutley suck if you feel trapped in it. But I can say, for me, other than pure investing, all these opportunites take up personal resources. I am more happier than I have ever been, but it seems there is not enough time in the day to get things done at times. Its very difficult to beat just showing up for your 10-12 shifts/month and having the rest of your time off to do whatever your want. Ive been at both ends and they both have their pros and cons. Find a balance and be happy.

 

[emergentmd]

I have had similar issues. I'd been pushing full steam ahead towards being able to retire as early as humanly possible. While that would certainly be nice, I came to the realization that I would infinitely rather retire at ~58 having lived a reasonably indulgent lifestyle where I didn't worry about money, instead of retiring at ~53 having lived an aggressively frugal lifestyle.

I have been at both spectrum. Starting out and memories of frugal poor parents made me frugal. Even making 4-500K/yr starting out, didn't want to spend when I didn't have to. Created some unnecessary stress esp with my wife. Now that I am Fire, we spend freely and have no worries with money. There is a balance for sure. To my younger self, "save ome, enjoy life, you never know what will happen around the corner"

 

[emergentmd]

2013: I was right out of residency. $250k in med school debt. approved for a 750k mortgage on a house on water on a 40k year residency salary. lol. started right off working 12 12s @ 265/hr and an assistant medical director.

interim: worked in underserved area 40 min from my house.....state paid off med school debt. lucked out in FSED craze and within 4 years was making 1.1-2 mil/yr. Lived well below means. saved alot. Cars are passion of mine....bought a lambo and a couple of others. Had a 3yo son diagnosed with cancer.

2023: Just finished 500k remodel on our house. Built a weekend getaway house on the beach for me and my family. Have literally no debt. 3yo is now a 11yo and cancer free. Just turned 40 and am now branching out to other aspects of medicine like cosmetic surgery and hospice. Also looking at things not even related to medicine, like a pickleball complex. lol. The ER is soooooooo much better when you have other options availible. It can absolutley suck if you feel trapped in it. But I can say, for me, other than pure investing, all these opportunites take up personal resources. I am more happier than I have ever been, but it seems there is not enough time in the day to get things done at times. Its very difficult to beat just showing up for your 10-12 shifts/month and having the rest of your time off to do whatever your want. Ive been at both ends and they both have their pros and cons. Find a balance and be happy.

You story sounds very similar to mine and Luck is very important. My clinical/FSER work takes very little time now and looking at other endeavors esp property but also looking into alot of non medical stuff too. Having high disposable income and time allows for interesting endeavors.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I have been at both spectrum. Starting out and memories of frugal poor parents made me frugal. Even making 4-500K/yr starting out, didn't want to spend when I didn't have to. Created some unnecessary stress esp with my wife. Now that I am Fire, we spend freely and have no worries with money. There is a balance for sure. To my younger self, "save ome, enjoy life, you never know what will happen around the corner"

I think this is key. Took me til I was past my FI to really let go Money wise. I grew up fairly poor. Dad drove a taxi cab until I was in 5th/6th grade mom worked in retail until she became a nurse. I literally ate government cheese and remember my parents and grandparents using food stamps. On the upside my parents were always amazing always pushed me to be my best. It was that that allowed me to be successful. I developed a serious fear of poverty. I never wanted to be “rich” but I wanted to never be “poor”. I was forced to spend but until recently could never enjoy it. Now in my mid 40s I push my wife to enjoy what we have. Our kids are growing up and the time before they head off to college isn’t too far off.
spousal choice matters. A working spouse helps but can add stress to your life. I also think an unhappy stay at home spouse can also be a disaster. Just have to make sure you are both on the same page. Also, I limit my time away from my family. Almost no work / meetings / calls other than clinical shifts on weekends or evenings.

 

[dchristismi]

Hey @RustedFox, wanna go in on a Pickleball complex? 🧐

 

[RustedFox]

Hey @RustedFox, wanna go in on a Pickleball complex? 🧐

... Only if it includes an adjacent urgent care.

Pickleball is d.a.n.g.e.r.o.u.s.

 

[WilcoWorld]

... Only if it includes an adjacent urgent care.

Pickleball is d.a.n.g.e.r.o.u.s.

I love Pickleball!

 

[WilcoWorld]

2013: I was right out of residency. $250k in med school debt. approved for a 750k mortgage on a house on water on a 40k year residency salary. lol. started right off working 12 12s @ 265/hr and an assistant medical director.

interim: worked in underserved area 40 min from my house.....state paid off med school debt. lucked out in FSED craze and within 4 years was making 1.1-2 mil/yr. Lived well below means. saved alot. Cars are passion of mine....bought a lambo and a couple of others. Had a 3yo son diagnosed with cancer.

2023: Just finished 500k remodel on our house. Built a weekend getaway house on the beach for me and my family. Have literally no debt. 3yo is now a 11yo and cancer free. Just turned 40 and am now branching out to other aspects of medicine like cosmetic surgery and hospice. Also looking at things not even related to medicine, like a pickleball complex. lol. The ER is soooooooo much better when you have other options availible. It can absolutley suck if you feel trapped in it. But I can say, for me, other than pure investing, all these opportunites take up personal resources. I am more happier than I have ever been, but it seems there is not enough time in the day to get things done at times. Its very difficult to beat just showing up for your 10-12 shifts/month and having the rest of your time off to do whatever your want. Ive been at both ends and they both have their pros and cons. Find a balance and be happy.

Great post...just wondering how you can spend 500k on a remodel, or was that a typo?