You will be sued...

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SofaKing

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If you are a doctor chances are you will be sued - whether you did something wrong or not. You might even be one of those folks that didn't do anything wrong and will face the possibility of losing everything you have AND a serious chunk of everything you make in the future (it can happen).

I wondered how this plays into the minds of people thinking of going into this career.

As a side note, here is a link to an ER doc that got sued, and a very lengthy description of what happened. The blog is on part 18 of 25 or so.
http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/06/the-trial-of-a-whitecoat-part-1/


Before anyone happily posts "I'll just be really nice and people won't sue me" I'd like to take this time to preemptively laugh at how naive you are.
 
everyone gets sued. Thats why you have malpractice insurance. Also if you're working as part of a hospital, normally they take on the lawsuit and handle settlements. Alot of the time, doctors get sued becaue the patient didn't read their own consent form that says "I know there are risks" and they want to sue because they had one of the possible complications.

You usually aren't at risk of losing everything unless you REALLY screw up and acted stupidly
 
There are plenty of legal counsels out there that will assist physicians (and any other business) in asset protection. Before you start spreading alarm and misinformation, get the facts. Medicine is a business like anything else and you need good legal business advice (not taught in medical school) to protect your assets. If a physician is sued, they will not "lose everything" unless they have been cheap or stupid.
 
red10 said:
if you're working as part of a hospital, normally they take on the lawsuit and handle settlements.
Click to expand...

that is a big if. how many docs are hospital employees, and how many are in a small practice?
 
I'm doing summer work with a vascular surgeon right now who has been sued twice in the past five years, once this past summer. Malpractice covered his legal fees, and the judge laughed both cases out of the court room. Only about 6% of malpractice claims actually go to trial, just because a patient wants money doesn't mean everyone else in the world becomes oblivious and starts giving it to them hand over fist. But to answer your original post, it affects me by making me want to eschew medicine entirely, makes me want to do something more bulletproof from a legal stand point. Maybe CEO of my own publicly traded corporation?
 
...because CEOs never face the threat of legal action!
 
I'm fairly certain Dr. McNinja has a perfect malpractice record, I plan to follow in his swift, invisible footsteps
 
Web MD said:
Only about 6% of malpractice claims actually go to trial
Click to expand...

I've heard similar numbers. The "actually go to trial" does not tell the whole story. They could have settled, they could have spent 100s of hours out of court dealing with it. They had the stress. They had the self doubt. Lost wages. Does their malpractice then go up?

Yes, chances are it won't go to court - that doesn't mean the joy won't be sucked from your life while it is happening.


Maybe I am just an alarmist because I've had friends and family members sued, and watched it rip them apart - in all cases they were covered by insurance and none were docs AND they all won.


I guess I'll just be really nice to everyone and I won't get sued - plus I'll get a good lawyer. Problem solved.
 
SofaKing said:
I've heard similar numbers. The "actually go to trial" does not tell the whole story. They could have settled, they could have spent 100s of hours out of court dealing with it. They had the stress. They had the self doubt. Lost wages. Does their malpractice then go up?

Yes, chances are it won't go to court - that doesn't mean the joy won't be sucked from your life while it is happening.


Maybe I am just an alarmist because I've had friends and family members sued, and watched it rip them apart - in all cases they were covered by insurance and none were docs AND they all won.


I guess I'll just be really nice to everyone and I won't get sued - plus I'll get a good lawyer. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
I can't tell how sarcastic you're being at the end there.

I think the point is that it comes with the territory. Some of us may be naive enough to not let it prevent us from entering the field anyway. Someone's got to. In other fields you have other drawbacks and difficulties to deal with that mimic this.
 
SofaKing said:
I've heard similar numbers. The "actually go to trial" does not tell the whole story. They could have settled, they could have spent 100s of hours out of court dealing with it. They had the stress. They had the self doubt. Lost wages. Does their malpractice then go up?

Yes, chances are it won't go to court - that doesn't mean the joy won't be sucked from your life while it is happening.


Maybe I am just an alarmist because I've had friends and family members sued, and watched it rip them apart - in all cases they were covered by insurance and none were docs AND they all won.


I guess I'll just be really nice to everyone and I won't get sued - plus I'll get a good lawyer. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Didn't you just say we're all going to lose everything? Quite the change of tune. 🙄
 
I'm a lawyer and got sued for malpractice once by a nutty former client. It took two years, two lawsuits, and an appeal to resolve it in my favor despite the former client never getting an expert to say I did anything wrong. My insurance rates went up, but not too much. Yeah, it sucked, but as a poster said, it comes with the territory...
 
i smile and be really nice and show them my hot wife...ill also wear ripped clothes and smell not so great so they dont think i have alot of money...thatll showem
 
JimmerJammerMrK said:
Didn't you just say we're all going to lose everything? Quite the change of tune. 🙄
Click to expand...

I never said "we're all going to lose everything". That is a misquote of the original post.

I don't see how these two statements are a change of tune. btw, these are direct copy-and-paste quotes, not implied quotes like yours.

1. "You might even be one of those folks that didn't do anything wrong and will face the possibility of losing everything..."

2. "Yes, chances are it won't go to court"
 
drzing said:
i smile and be really nice and show them my hot wife...ill also wear ripped clothes and smell not so great so they dont think i have alot of money...thatll showem
Click to expand...

nice! i imagine an unbuttoned flannel shirt and muddy boots.

i think i'll add everyone to my christmas letter, and add them to my random forwards of forwards about not buying gass this thursday so we can stick it to exxon.

i'll also say at the end of each visit: "we should hang out sometime!"
 
bleargh said:
shyte thread. 0/10
Click to expand...

For what reason? A lot of other professionals do not think it to be so irrelevant.

From: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090803/FREE/908039970 regarding med mal reform

“The patient was told he had to limit his food intake, but he ate a big corned beef sandwich on St. Patrick’s Day, his stomach burst and he died,” Mr. Poe said.

Since the man was only 35 and was employed, his family’s lawyer successfully argued that the death represented a large loss of future earnings, and found it worthwhile to sue the surgeon even though his negligence was apparently minimal.

A lawyer bragging about a $30 million case:
http://www.medicalmalpractice.net/30m.htm
And $15 million:
http://www.medicalmalpractice.net/p15mye.htm

$1 million for something common:
http://www.turkewitzlaw.com/cases/new-york-birth-injury-erbs-palsy-attorney.htm

Anyone of of these docs could have been you.

The list can go on and on and on. I wonder how many actual docs, not premeds, think the topic is shyte.
 
SofaKing said:
For what reason? A lot of other professionals do not think it to be so irrelevant.

The list can go on and on and on. I wonder how many actual docs, not premeds, think the topic is shyte.
Click to expand...

the topic is relevant. the thread is extra-redundant and adds absolutely no value to the discussion. shyte THREAD. -1/10
 
SofaKing said:
For what reason? A lot of other professionals do not think it to be so irrelevant.

From: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090803/FREE/908039970 regarding med mal reform

“The patient was told he had to limit his food intake, but he ate a big corned beef sandwich on St. Patrick’s Day, his stomach burst and he died,” Mr. Poe said.

Since the man was only 35 and was employed, his family’s lawyer successfully argued that the death represented a large loss of future earnings, and found it worthwhile to sue the surgeon even though his negligence was apparently minimal.

A lawyer bragging about a $30 million case:
http://www.medicalmalpractice.net/30m.htm
And $15 million:
http://www.medicalmalpractice.net/p15mye.htm

$1 million for something common:
http://www.turkewitzlaw.com/cases/new-york-birth-injury-erbs-palsy-attorney.htm

Anyone of of these docs could have been you.

The list can go on and on and on. I wonder how many actual docs, not premeds, think the topic is shyte.
Click to expand...
it is a concern to be dealt with when the time comes. Being all "the sky is falling" about it as a premed isn't going to do any good.
If you're scared off by the chance of getting sued then good, get out of my application pool! Its a part of the job to be considered just like a risk in any other profession but its not a deal breaker in and of itself
 
SofaKing said:
Maybe I am just an alarmist because I've had friends and family members sued, and watched it rip them apart - in all cases they were covered by insurance and none were docs AND they all won.
Click to expand...

yes yes of course you did.. why don't u share with us exactly what happened and then we will decide if it's a real cause for concern or not.. allow us the joy of drawing the conclusions..
 
These should be interesting:
Statistics Part One
Statistics Part Two
Some key points to note:
-As expected, surgeons are mostly targeted in this type of case
-10-20% of malpractice charges reach trial
-Only 27% of these cases are won by the plaintiff.

Yeah, you will see things such as "Doctor sued for $16 million, and practicing license has been revoked," but that's just a really small percentage and some crappy luck. You will get sued, according to these statistics, close to 50% of all doctors in the US have been sued at least once. Albeit they are abut ~6-7 years old, they can't be too different from today. I won't be surprised if the numbers are a little larger today, but not by a whole margin.
According to these statistics, most of these malpractice cases are either settled outside of court with minimal penalty (if any), within court with some kind of penalty (not too extreme), or within court without any penalty to the doctor.
Not your extreme way of "omg, the dude got sued, he's ripped apart now, he's done, he's finished, its on the streets for him, its back down to driving the camry now, and I'd like to take this time to preemptively laugh at how naive people are"
 
SofaKing said:
For what reason? A lot of other professionals do not think it to be so irrelevant.

From: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090803/FREE/908039970 regarding med mal reform

“The patient was told he had to limit his food intake, but he ate a big corned beef sandwich on St. Patrick’s Day, his stomach burst and he died,” Mr. Poe said.

Since the man was only 35 and was employed, his family’s lawyer successfully argued that the death represented a large loss of future earnings, and found it worthwhile to sue the surgeon even though his negligence was apparently minimal.

A lawyer bragging about a $30 million case:
http://www.medicalmalpractice.net/30m.htm
And $15 million:
http://www.medicalmalpractice.net/p15mye.htm

$1 million for something common:
http://www.turkewitzlaw.com/cases/new-york-birth-injury-erbs-palsy-attorney.htm

Anyone of of these docs could have been you.

The list can go on and on and on. I wonder how many actual docs, not premeds, think the topic is shyte.
Click to expand...
You didn't have to provide links to the exact pages. There all on the homepage of the site. And again, those are small outcomes that happened probably decades ago.

and as for this from the $15million lawsuit:
Mr. Vigo claimed that Dr. Fraser negligently cauterized the artery while removing the tumor from the temporal lobe. The defense contended that only a minor branch of the artery was cauterized, which caused a clot formation to ultimately obstruct the main artery. The defense further contended that this was always an accepted risk in this type of surgery. The jury found that Dr. Fraser deviated from accepted practice by injuring the artery rather than a branch of it and that such an action was not an accepted risk of the procedure.
Click to expand...

How do you sit in a room and "decide" what had happened? For surgeries such as these, isn't there a person who usually logs everything that happened?
And as for malpractice lawsuits, I think it needs to be done in a more of a medical community setting that understands what the hell is going on and under what situations a doctor would "deviate from the norm"
 
Omni said:
These should be interesting:
Statistics Part One
Statistics Part Two
Some key points to note:
-As expected, surgeons are mostly targeted in this type of case
-10-20% of malpractice charges reach trial
-Only 27% of these cases are won by the plaintiff.

Yeah, you will see things such as "Doctor sued for $16 million, and practicing license has been revoked," but that's just a really small percentage and some crappy luck. You will get sued, according to these statistics, close to 50% of all doctors in the US have been sued at least once. Albeit they are abut ~6-7 years old, they can't be too different from today. I won't be surprised if the numbers are a little larger today, but not by a whole margin.
According to these statistics, most of these malpractice cases are either settled outside of court with minimal penalty (if any), within court with some kind of penalty (not too extreme), or within court without any penalty to the doctor.
Not your extreme way of "omg, the dude got sued, he's ripped apart now, he's done, he's finished, its on the streets for him, its back down to driving the camry now, and I'd like to take this time to preemptively laugh at how naive people are"
Click to expand...

wow! those are some really interesting stats. thanks for the links. that is some great feed back.

i like numbers.
 
I shadowed a neurosurgeon who was sued (I didn't ask too much) but his resident said that what sucks the most is that you could be completely right but you may be forced to settle. Then if you apply to another job you have to report that settlement.

One approach to lawsuits is what I've heard Indiana does--they have a panel of doctors review the lawsuit before it goes forward.
 
as long as you get cleared by your board the suit shouldn't be a big concern from what i've heard from my MSII best bud with a physician dad
 
mirrorpair said:
I shadowed a neurosurgeon who was sued (I didn't ask too much) but his resident said that what sucks the most is that you could be completely right but you may be forced to settle. Then if you apply to another job you have to report that settlement.

One approach to lawsuits is what I've heard Indiana does--they have a panel of doctors review the lawsuit before it goes forward.
Click to expand...
Having a panel of doctors reviewing the case is definitely helpful..however, if the doctor really did something wrong, those doctors will see it clearer than anyone else..

The hospital I volunteer at recently had a doctor and a resident being sued, but the case was dropped before the trial because of lack of evidence or something (dont take my words for it..I am not sure)...it sounds very stupid to me..why did people want to sue someone even though they have no proof ..
 
Gogogirl said:
The hospital I volunteer at recently had a doctor and a resident being sued, but the case was dropped before the trial because of lack of evidence or something (dont take my words for it..I am not sure)...it sounds very stupid to me..why did people want to sue someone even though they have no proof ..
Click to expand...
Because in order to win a civil suit all you need is preponderance of evidence (instead of certainty beyond a reasonable doubt), and if you have a jury full of idiots (happens every time) the plaintiff's lawyers will eventually win some meritless cases.
 
Web MD said:
I'm doing summer work with a vascular surgeon right now who has been sued twice in the past five years, once this past summer. Malpractice covered his legal fees, and the judge laughed both cases out of the court room. Only about 6% of malpractice claims actually go to trial, just because a patient wants money doesn't mean everyone else in the world becomes oblivious and starts giving it to them hand over fist. But to answer your original post, it affects me by making me want to eschew medicine entirely, makes me want to do something more bulletproof from a legal stand point. Maybe CEO of my own publicly traded corporation?
Click to expand...
you are right 6 percent go to trial. thats not the alarming number. the remainder are SETTLED. That means your malpractice company paid out money becuase of you which is reportable to every single state you go to and every single hospital you go to. and guess what. many places advertise. Physician wanted: clean malpractice record. Which means you are SOL. NOBODY is playing a violin for you. Its treacherous waters. You truly need a lawyer on like retainer or something
 
maceo said:
you are right 6 percent go to trial. thats not the alarming number. the remainder are SETTLED. That means your malpractice company paid out money becuase of you which is reportable to every single state you go to and every single hospital you go to. and guess what. many places advertise. Physician wanted: clean malpractice record. Which means you are SOL. NOBODY is playing a violin for you. Its treacherous waters. You truly need a lawyer on like retainer or something
Click to expand...
Your point is well taken but doesn't it also depend on the number of lawsuits that are dropped or dismissed?
 
red10 said:
You usually aren't at risk of losing everything unless you REALLY screw up and acted stupidly
Click to expand...


whatever you say!

as a physician you are at risk of losing everything everytime you go to work.
no other profession deals with this. and it can be all about you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
He can't sue me if I finish him off
and all his relatives and friends too
:meanie:
 
maceo said:
whatever you say!

as a physician you are at risk of losing everything every time you go to work.
no other profession deals with this. and it can be all about you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...

Police officers deal with it as well.

Some more than others. Just like docs who take the high-risk cases, the cops who "patrol to contact" (e.g. look aggressively for predicate felons) get sued a hell of a lot more than those who "patrol to deter."

Still, even for those we refer to as "zeros" (who will let a car full of thugs in a stolen car pass by so that they can stop a housewife for rolling through a stop sign), being in the wrong place at the wrong time can be all that is necessary.

Funny science reference: the first day out of the academy, I watched the sergeant at roll call refer to one of the old timers as "Kelvin." Initially, I thought it was his real name. A few days later, I found out that he got this nickname in a year when he did not make a single arrest or write a single ticket--"Absolute Zero!"
 
maceo said:
whatever you say!

as a physician you are at risk of losing everything everytime you go to work.
no other profession deals with this. and it can be all about you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...

Yes. This is why specialties like dermatology are so attractive to medical students. Very low risk, good lifestyle and easy $$$.
 
PDtoMD said:
Police officers deal with it as well.

Some more than others. Just like docs who take the high-risk cases, the cops who "patrol to contact" (e.g. look aggressively for predicate felons) get sued a hell of a lot more than those who "patrol to deter."

Still, even for those we refer to as "zeros" (who will let a car full of thugs in a stolen car pass by so that they can stop a housewife for rolling through a stop sign), being in the wrong place at the wrong time can be all that is necessary.

Funny science reference: the first day out of the academy, I watched the sergeant at roll call refer to one of the old timers as "Kelvin." Initially, I thought it was his real name. A few days later, I found out that he got this nickname in a year when he did not make a single arrest or write a single ticket--"Absolute Zero!"
Click to expand...

LAPD officers get paid $90k per year, don't they?
 
UnfeatyOblation said:
I'll just be really nice and people won't sue me.
Click to expand...

If you were nice to a patient who died, his or her angry relatives who don't know you or the circumstances surrounding the death will still sue you.

Look at MJ's cardiologist. He's a wanted man!
 
Last edited:
Posts that deserve repeating:

njbmd said:
There are plenty of legal counsels out there that will assist physicians (and any other business) in asset protection. Before you start spreading alarm and misinformation, get the facts. Medicine is a business like anything else and you need good legal business advice (not taught in medical school) to protect your assets. If a physician is sued, they will not "lose everything" unless they have been cheap or stupid.
Click to expand...

Omni said:
These should be interesting:
Statistics Part One
Statistics Part Two
Some key points to note:
-As expected, surgeons are mostly targeted in this type of case
-10-20% of malpractice charges reach trial
-Only 27% of these cases are won by the plaintiff.

Yeah, you will see things such as "Doctor sued for $16 million, and practicing license has been revoked," but that's just a really small percentage and some crappy luck. You will get sued, according to these statistics, close to 50% of all doctors in the US have been sued at least once. Albeit they are abut ~6-7 years old, they can't be too different from today. I won't be surprised if the numbers are a little larger today, but not by a whole margin.
According to these statistics, most of these malpractice cases are either settled outside of court with minimal penalty (if any), within court with some kind of penalty (not too extreme), or within court without any penalty to the doctor.
Not your extreme way of "omg, the dude got sued, he's ripped apart now, he's done, he's finished, its on the streets for him, its back down to driving the camry now, and I'd like to take this time to preemptively laugh at how naive people are"
Click to expand...
 
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