Young Applicants

[Btemp687]

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I was talking to a medical student and he's 27. A 3rd year or 4th yr, I dont remember. But he was telling me that there is no need to rush into medical school. It will always be there. Also he said that patients respect and listen to a doctor thats a little older/mature. They can bring with them past experiences as opposed to sumone thats just in their early 20's. Im 21 btw

 

[NonTradMed]

I was going to attend med school right after college but I ended up not applying and going to work. I don't regret doing that because I think I really 'enjoyed' myself once I got out of that 'must get to med school' mode. I realized that medicine was the career for me and that I came away refreshed to reenter the premed rat race.

However, I think alot of people are probably happy doing the traditional route. We have in our class a 17 year old! Maybe she'll realize at age 19 that she doesn't like medicine and don't enjoy taking classes with people 5-10 years older than her. Maybe she'll find it the best time of her life. Who knows? Each person is different. Some people can't wait to be a doctor and 'start' a real life. Others view medicine as one more journey in the road of life. To each their own. 🙂

 

[HumbleMD]

What's wrong with being a traditional applicant?

I do love that this thread is full of non-trads attacking the idea of being a "traditional" and "normal" applicant. Since when is being "normal" and "traditional" such a CRAZY and HORRIBLE idea like they make it sound. Please don't assert your opinion over ours simply because you couldn't get into med school straight out of school. In the immortal words of Judge Judy, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

 

[alwaysaangel]

I do love that this thread is full of non-trads attacking the idea of being a "traditional" and "normal" applicant. Since when is being "normal" and "traditional" such a CRAZY and HORRIBLE idea like they make it sound. Please don't assert your opinion over ours simply because you couldn't get into med school straight out of school. In the immortal words of Judge Judy, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

Because thats why most of us took years off.

I don't think either one is better or worse. I do think that most people who take 1-2 years off are happier and have a more successful application than those that don't. But that doesn't make it better or worse.

And most people didn't wait just because they 'couldn't get in.' Many just want to.

Oh yes, and in case you were wondering you're an ass. Good luck in your application process - and we WILL laugh if they determine you're too immature to enter medical school at this point in your life.

 

[baylormed]

I do love that this thread is full of non-trads attacking the idea of being a "traditional" and "normal" applicant. Since when is being "normal" and "traditional" such a CRAZY and HORRIBLE idea like they make it sound. Please don't assert your opinion over ours simply because you couldn't get into med school straight out of school. In the immortal words of Judge Judy, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

Thank you! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Back off, non-trads!! 😡

 

[alwaysaangel]

Also, I just reread the entire thread and NO where does anyone attack being a traditional applicant. We said there are a lot of benefits and a lot of people were encouraging others and talking about how great it can be.

Then the trads starting getting nasty about how they were 'better' and didn't need to 'strengthen' their apps like us incompetent nontrads.

Feeling insecure about your decision or what?

Edit: Fixed for reasons of insulting others I think. On that note did everyone hear that apparently homosexual has now been deemed non-PC and you're supposed to say gay instead now. Who knew.

 

[HumbleMD]

Also, I just reread the entire thread and NO where does anyone attack being a traditional applicant. We said there are a lot of benefits and a lot of people were encouraging others and talking about how great it can be.

Then the trads starting getting nasty about how they were 'better' and didn't need to 'strengthen' their apps like us ******ed nontrads.

Feeling insecure about your decision or what?

There've been 3-4 threads on this topic in the past few days. That's where the attacks were happening. Please do not use the r word. It is considered offensive by many.

 

[alwaysaangel]

There've been 3-4 threads on this topic in the past few days. That's where the attacks were happening. Please do not use the r word. It is considered offensive by many.

Fair enough, guess I missed those. But you did say 'this thread' was full of them. And then proceeded to insult non-trads. So at least here you started the inflammatory remarks.

And I edited it out.

 

[Missterious1]

lol I wouldn't expect such a post from someone with the name "HumbleMD."

But anyway, many non-trads take time off for reasons other than "not getting into med school the first time around." Believe it or not, the trend towards taking time off is increasing. I know that at several ivies, about 1/2 of the applicants applying every year are alums... and we all know that these schools have very high rates of admission into med school, so they probably aren't taking time off because they got rejected.

Whether or not you take time off is up to you... some people are gung-ho premed-let's go straight through to med school kind of people. Others would like to take advantage of other opportunities before they go in. I do have to say that I see quite a difference in attitude between people who are applying as juniors and those who are "non-trad." Adcoms see this too.

As my premed advisor says, he has seen people go straight into med school and regret it, but he'd he hard pressed to find someone who took time off (without being "forced" to) and regret it.

 

[kirexhana]

as an actual young med student (19) who goes to school with a few other med students who are quite young (17-21), i can say that there is no place that i'd rather be than here. we are all very serious about our education, but it's not like once you enter med school, life ends. in fact, i can say for sure that i have had as many memorable experinces in the last 2 months as i did in all of undergrad. it's all what you make of it.

SDN is very good about maintaining a group mentality, which i had discovered just last year. there is a lot of negativity and criticism towards people who don't venture to other countries or lifestyles because somehow, you can't be a good doctor or even a med student unless you're thoroughly satisfied that you don't want to do anything else and be anywhere else. and that in itself is pretty narrow-minded.

in terms of maturity or social awkwardness, i assure you, my classmates constantly (almost irritatingly) forget that i am not yet 21 because i talk and act exactly like they do.

my advice to young applicants though, if you are confident of your reasons to pursue medicine as your career, and have no doubt of where you want to be 10-20 years from now, do it. don't let people on the internet who don't even know you detract you from doing what is best for you. but approach this process and the rest of your lives with humility.

good luck you guys.

 

[Missterious1]

as an actual young med student (19) who goes to school with a few other med students who are quite young (17-21), i can say that there is no place that i'd rather be than here. we are all very serious about our education, but it's not like once you enter med school, life ends. in fact, i can say for sure that i have had as many memorable experinces in the last 2 months as i did in all of undergrad. it's all what you make of it.

SDN is very good about maintaining a group mentality, which i had discovered just last year. there is a lot of negativity and criticism towards people who don't venture to other countries or lifestyles because somehow, you can't be a good doctor or even a med student unless you're thoroughly satisfied that you don't want to do anything else and be anywhere else. and that in itself is pretty narrow-minded.

in terms of maturity or social awkwardness, i assure you, my classmates constantly (almost irritatingly) forget that i am not yet 21 because i talk and act exactly like they do.

my advice to young applicants though, if you are confident of your reasons to pursue medicine as your career, and have no doubt of where you want to be 10-20 years from now, do it. don't let people on the internet who don't even know you detract you from doing what is best for you. but approach this process and the rest of your lives with humility.

good luck you guys.

Your post is quite different from what some other younger applicants say, and its probably the most mature post I've read expressing a younger applicant POV... (as much as you can assess maturity from forum posts...haha). 👍 I personally know younger med students who are definitely mature for their age, while others... could've used some time to grow up. And while you say you're still experiencing life while in med school, some other younger applicants make it seem like life doesn't happen until residency is over and that they need to get through med school/residency so they'll be as young as possible when they get to that point.

I guess there is some "narrow-mindedness" on both sides: non-trads tend to think that you must experience the world before med school or else, while younger applicants tend to think along the lines of "having no doubt of where you want to be 10-20 years from now"

It's probably clear that I lean towards the non-trad side, but that's also partly because I went to a college where people get involved in really interesting, non traditional, unusual yet useful activities all the time... in fact, that's how we got into the school in the first place 🙂

 

[solitude]

I don't think either one is better or worse. I do think that most people who take 1-2 years off are happier and have a more successful application than those that don't. But that doesn't make it better or worse.

I don't think that this is true. For example, last year at my school 106/119 seniors were accepted, whereas 104/144 non-trads were accepted (http://www.aas.duke.edu/trinity/prehealth/appendix/). It is common knowledge that the pre-med advisor essentially mandates that certain weaker applicants take a few years off to build their application.

Of course there are tons of great applicants that take a year or 2 or 10 off, but I disagree with your assertion that, on the average, people who take time off have a more successful application.

 

[HumbleMD]

Boy, I think we can crown this topic our new D.O. v. M.D. or AA thread. Hot Hot Hot!

 

[Missterious1]

I don't think that this is true. For example, last year at my school 106/119 seniors were accepted, whereas 104/144 non-trads were accepted (http://www.aas.duke.edu/trinity/prehealth/appendix/). It is common knowledge that the pre-med advisor essentially mandates that certain weaker applicants take a few years off to build their application.

Of course there are tons of great applicants that take a year or 2 or 10 off, but I disagree with your assertion that, on the average, people who take time off have a more successful application.

true true... in order to make that kind of assertion, you'd have to at least compare trad and non-trad students with similar stats.

btw, the link isn't working

 

[Rafa]

There's definitely a level of insecurity in this thread from *some* non-trads (the thread itself was started on the premise of calling traditional students rushed, hurried, and other condescending terms). Unfortunately, it looks like those extra years off don't always translate into the maturity necessary to judge people by their characters, and not something as superficial as the number of times they've been around the sun. I'm not sure why it's so hard to just do what you do, and let others the same. You aren't a bad person if you go into med school from college. You aren't a bad person if you don't. The last time I checked, the objective was to get into medical school - not to piss over each other for how much time you did or didn't take to get there. That goes for both types of students.

 

[biggoron42]

this thread has degenerated into such a dumb, subjective argument.

do what you want to in life, not what makes you the "best applicant" who appeals the most to some "adcom" about whom you know nothing: nothing about their preferences, nothing about what they think is important in a medical student.

if your path takes you through medical school at 20 or at 40 or at 60, who cares? i am happy that you have taken the road you wanted and followed your dreams with passion.

there is so much judgment on these forums and in the real world, it seems, about matters that have nothing to do with us. i wish we could just concern ourselves with ourselves alone and what makes us happy personally.

 

[snowkhat]

I think as long as you are happy it doesn't matter what your age is when you apply. I'm 27 and currently applying to medical school and I feel fortunate to have been able to experience a bit of life before seeking out a demanding education and career. I've been able to travel, get married, and work full time which have only boosted my application. I know for me personally, I wasn't ready to apply right out of undergrad. Just my two cents. 🙂

I'm 27 as well and I will be 28 when I start medical school next year. So I will be 32 when I graduate and 36+ after residency. Although it might be nice to be a bit younger, I have had many experiences I wouldn't give up for those few extra years.

Good job for those going straight from high school to college to medical school! That takes a certain kind of determination. But also much credit should be given to those that chose a different route---one that only comes with age and wisdom.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I don't think that this is true. For example, last year at my school 106/119 seniors were accepted, whereas 104/144 non-trads were accepted (http://www.aas.duke.edu/trinity/prehealth/appendix/). It is common knowledge that the pre-med advisor essentially mandates that certain weaker applicants take a few years off to build their application.

Of course there are tons of great applicants that take a year or 2 or 10 off, but I disagree with your assertion that, on the average, people who take time off have a more successful application.

Like someone else said - your schools stats don't take into account GPA and MCAT to properly compare the non-trad and traditional set.

My school does:

http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/MedStats.stm

And with only like two or three exceptions (e.g. a few places where trads with a particular GPA had a higher acceptance than non-trads with it) all rows and columns have higher acceptance rates for those who took time off.

Guess we would need more data - but mines a bit more accurate since it takes similar stats into account. I still say that in general those that take time off are more successful applicants than a counterpart with identical GPA and MCAT.

And the only reason I say this is because I think its important for some gung-ho premeds to know there are other options. Yes, going straight in is a great, viable option. But so is waiting a year. It won't hurt you, there are lots of great things you can do in that time, and in fact, in many cases it improves your odds of getting into the medical school you want.

 

[instigata]

Like someone else said - your schools stats don't take into account GPA and MCAT to properly compare the non-trad and traditional set.

My school does:

http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/MedStats.stm

And with only like two or three exceptions (e.g. a few places where trads with a particular GPA had a higher acceptance than non-trads with it) all rows and columns have higher acceptance rates for those who took time off.

Guess we would need more data - but mines a bit more accurate since it takes similar stats into account. I still say that in general those that take time off are more successful applicants than a counterpart with identical GPA and MCAT.

And the only reason I say this is because I think its important for some gung-ho premeds to know there are other options. Yes, going straight in is a great, viable option. But so is waiting a year. It won't hurt you, there are lots of great things you can do in that time, and in fact, in many cases it improves your odds of getting into the medical school you want.

I am 20 years old and finishing my undergrad education in 3 years. I haven't rushed through my education and I have even taken classes I enjoy.

Personally, if I took a year off, I wouldn't feel productive since I wouldn't be able to apply that year to my future ambitions. True, you might get a few experiences that will add to your application. However, I would rather save that year and go to any medical school I am applying to (since those schools are places I would be comfortable attending).

If, however, I do not get in anywhere this year (worst case scenario), I will work in a lab of some sort and to strengthen my application. But if I could apply and am happy doing so, then why shouldn't I? In the end, it is what YOU want, not people on the internet.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I am 20 years old and finishing my undergrad education in 3 years. I haven't rushed through my education and I have even taken classes I enjoy.

Personally, if I took a year off, I wouldn't feel productive since I wouldn't be able to apply that year to my future ambitions. True, you might get a few experiences that will add to your application. However, I would rather save that year and go to any medical school I am applying to (since those schools are places I would be comfortable attending).

If, however, I do not get in anywhere this year (worst case scenario), I will work in a lab of some sort and to strengthen my application. But if I could apply and am happy doing so, then why shouldn't I? In the end, it is what YOU want, not people on the internet.

Yes, I acknowledged that. But so many premeds don't even CONSIDER a year off - and I think everyone should at least think about it and see if its a good idea for them.

As someone else said - traditional is "normal." There is a big stigma against not doing something that is normal. And as shown by traditionals in this thread there is a stigma that people who take a year off were too stupid to get in right away. Which simply isn't true - its a great option for a lot of people and I think all premeds should at least think about it before diving right in.

If you have and its not for you - GREAT! I never said there was anything wrong with that. But again - it is an option, it doesn't mean you're not competitive and you will probably end up more competitive than if you hadn't done it.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Heh, kind of a funny topic. I'm 21 and applying right out of undergrad (and am skipping tons of class for interviews - eek!). I've actually asked the question "why in the world are people waiting 1-3 years? Post-bac programs aren't needed for me, and getting a random masters would be both pointless and useless. A 1 year job that would actually strengthen my app is quite difficult to get with only an undergrad degree. Also, I really don't plan on starting a family until GME is almost done, so there definitely is a big difference between 26 and 29. My question to these older folks applying is, do you really want to be 35 when you officially start your career/life?

Sigh...you young'uns. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Those out-of-college-but-before-med-school years were seriously the best of my life so far.

 

[Rafa]

this thread has degenerated into such a dumb, subjective argument.

Yes!

if your path takes you through medical school at 20 or at 40 or at 60, who cares? i am happy that you have taken the road you wanted and followed your dreams with passion.

👍

there is so much judgment on these forums and in the real world, it seems, about matters that have nothing to do with us. i wish we could just concern ourselves with ourselves alone and what makes us happy personally.

Take your logic and get the hell out of here!

 

[HumbleMD]

Those out-of-college-but-before-med-school years were seriously the best of my life so far.

Recall that some "young-uns" look farther down the line then all those "adults."

 

[instigata]

Sigh...you young'uns. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Those out-of-college-but-before-med-school years were seriously the best of my life so far.

and the non-trads say they're not condescending? 🙄

 

[Rafa]

Recall that some "young-uns" look farther down the line then then all those "adults."

Touché!

and the non-trads say they're not condescending?

Encore!

 

[solitude]

I agree that there is no right answer to whether one should or should not take a year off, and I'm not trying to criticize either decision. You may be right that those with identical GPA/MCAT that took time off have more successful applicants than traditionals. My post served to challenge your assertion which I interpreted to mean that, on average, applicants that take 1-2yrs off have a more successful application. I'm not trying to start an argument, just stating my case. I think we can both agree that, at least on our limited data sets, non-trads on average have weaker stats and fare less well in admissions, but non-trads with stats comparable to trads fare slightly better in admissions.

Regardless, everybody should chill out. Some people will be happy taking a year or two off, others will be happy going straight to med school. It doesn't really matter in the end, I think.

Like someone else said - your schools stats don't take into account GPA and MCAT to properly compare the non-trad and traditional set.

My school does:

http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/MedStats.stm

And with only like two or three exceptions (e.g. a few places where trads with a particular GPA had a higher acceptance than non-trads with it) all rows and columns have higher acceptance rates for those who took time off.

Guess we would need more data - but mines a bit more accurate since it takes similar stats into account. I still say that in general those that take time off are more successful applicants than a counterpart with identical GPA and MCAT.

And the only reason I say this is because I think its important for some gung-ho premeds to know there are other options. Yes, going straight in is a great, viable option. But so is waiting a year. It won't hurt you, there are lots of great things you can do in that time, and in fact, in many cases it improves your odds of getting into the medical school you want.

 

[notdeadyet]

ohnoes.... you just totally described me!

There's nothing wrong with being a "traditional" applicant. This is the way that most people enter medicine. It works. But since the majority of people go this route, just be sure to find a way to set yourself apart from the crowd.

When you're applying as a veteran, after the Peace Corps, or years on the road as a professional musician, you have a great way to distinguish yourself from the pile of other applicants. As a more traditional applicant, it can be harder. But I'll bet if you look long and hard at your upcoming app, mmmkay, you'll find a way to set yourself apart. Most folks can find ways that they are unique. And if not, it's never to late to make yourself distinct. I'm sure you'll find a way to work it out.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Recall that some "young-uns" look farther down the line then all those "adults."

I'm sure my 30s will be a BLAST. I'm just glad I got a few years in my early twenties to not be a student. Trust me, I am ALWAYS the one with her eyes to the horizon, anticipating what is next and planning for it. I rarely find someone who "looks farther down the line" than I do. (And if I do, and if he's a guy, I'll marry him then and there!)

I've yet to meet someone who took time off and regretted it. I've met a number of people who haven't taken time off and have come to regret it.

and the non-trads say they're not condescending? 🙄

Ironically enough, I'm NOT a non-trad. I think the term gets thrown around way too much, but the definition as I understand it (the definition provided by the admissions office at my medical school) is someone who has taken 3+ years off after college and has pursued another career or lifestyle (stay at home mom, etc.) before coming to medicine. That definitely wasn't me.

I went to college fully intending to be pre-med, finished the requirements on time, took the MCAT as a junior, and then my parents convinced me that a year off would be great. I reluctantly caved in to their wishes, as I do trust their judgment. I loved my year off so much that once I was accepted I requested and received a deferral for a second year. Honestly, that year was the best. I had an acceptance letter to med school and a great job 🙂.

 

[GujuMD]

Medical school + Residency takes atleast 7 years. and 7 years is a long time. also the thread about taking time off has a poll and a lot more people say that they regret the time off....although they don't say the reason why.

 

[gildas]

Medical school + Residency takes atleast 7 years. and 7 years is a long time. also the thread about taking time off has a poll and a lot more people say that they regret the time off....although they don't say the reason why.

Correction: the majority said they are glad they took the time off.

 

[Mac11]

When you're applying as a veteran, after the Peace Corps, or years on the road as a professional musician, you have a great way to distinguish yourself from the pile of other applicants. As a more traditional applicant, it can be harder.

Come on. You don't need to be an ex-musician or former peace corporal to get into med school. And what's wrong with the good old fashioned way of being unique, like getting a good GPA/MCAT? Decent personality? Volunteer work/EC's?

Seriously, I think that people going on about 'being unique' are just finding a way to validate their own crappy numbers by saying "oh and I have _____". Not directed specifically at you, notdeadyet, just the general vibe I'm getting from the take-a-year-off-ers.

Answer this question honestly: coming out of undergrad, if you knew you all but had an invite from HMS (or insert dream school), would you take a year off? And why?

 

[SoCuteMD]

Come on. You don't need to be an ex-musician or former peace corporal to get into med school. And what's wrong with the good old fashioned way of being unique, like getting a good GPA/MCAT? Decent personality? Volunteer work/EC's?

Seriously, I think that people going on about 'being unique' are just finding a way to validate their own crappy numbers by saying "oh and I have _____". Not directed specifically at you, notdeadyet, just the general vibe I'm getting from the take-a-year-off-ers.

Answer this question honestly: coming out of undergrad, if you knew you all but had an invite from HMS (or insert dream school), would you take a year off? And why?

Ah-ha! Now I see where some of the conflict comes from 🙂.

I would agree with what I think you are saying. A year off doesn't contribute much to being unique as an applicant. The average entering age is 24 - which adds up to ~2 years off (on average). Accounting for the fact that the 48 year-old matriculant really messes up the number, I would guess that the median matriculant age would probably be closer to 23 (~1 year off on average). Now, if you do something GREAT with that year, it could be good interview/application fodder, but given the timing of applications a lot of people don't even have jobs before they've finished their AMCAS, much less experiences to add to it.

I think that I would NOT have taken the year off if my dream school had said, "Here's a spot" but I probably would have regretted going straight through. My parents really encouraged me to take the time and I have told them repeatedly that I am grateful for it. I think it made me a more mature, more focused medical student. I didn't "lose" my ability to study or focus - I am actually a far better student now than I was in college.

 

[musiclink213]

Answer this question honestly: coming out of undergrad, if you knew you all but had an invite from HMS (or insert dream school), would you take a year off? And why?

I'm assuming by invite, you mean acceptance. If you asked me last year, I would have said absolutely I would go. But, with what I know now, I would definitly take a year off. I hear from my first year friends how stressed and depressed they are. And I get to rent a cabin with a bunch of friends and go skiing for New Years, and then fly to Cali and learn to surf. When will I ever have time to do that again? My life is entirely my own right now. I'm not bogged down by work or school. When I'm in med school, there is no way I would be able to miss a week of classes just because I want to learn to surf. When I'm a resident or whatever, forget it. My life is happening right now, and I am thankful that I have this year to enjoy it. If I want to visit long distance friends, I can hop in teh car or train or plane and go.

Once I got over the misery of a rejection from every single school, I've actually really enjoyed the past few months more than I have any other time except when I'm traveling. Each day is something new. My job lets me interact iwth some pretty entertaining people. Honestly, I am now glad that I didn't get in anywhere last year, because right now, I am having the time of my life. When I go on interviews, I can even make mini vacations out of them because I don't need to worry about missing class.

And last year, my top choice school flat out rejected me. This year, I was interviewed on the second day of interviews. So maybe everything happens for a reason.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Medical school + Residency takes atleast 7 years. and 7 years is a long time. also the thread about taking time off has a poll and a lot more people say that they regret the time off....although they don't say the reason why.

Over 80% DON'T regret their decision.

So far the one person who has explained their reason has said he was in a PhD program - which, honestly, doesn't really fit the bill for "time off from school."

 

[mvenus929]

Medical school + Residency takes atleast 7 years. and 7 years is a long time. also the thread about taking time off has a poll and a lot more people say that they regret the time off....although they don't say the reason why.

You've been corrected, but I think it's important to make the distinction between those who were forced to take a year off (no acceptances) and those that chose to take a year off. For one, if you plan to take a year off, you can probably be a lot more productive in that year. If you're forced to, you're more likely to spend that year off applying, which means you have to have a somewhat flexible schedule if you get interviews, and you'll only be there a year, assuming you get accepted.

While I'm sure there are exceptions, I think that the applicants that regret taking time off were forced to from lack of acceptance into a school.

 

[t-funk]

Honestly, I don't know about any of the other threads, but there is not one on this one that is cutting down traditional applicants for their choice to go to med school straight out of undergrad. However, there are several comments from trads bashing non-trads. It is just plain ignorant to say that the reason that people take time off is bc they couldn't get in the first time. Grow up. There are plenty of people who take time off who would have whipped up the traditional students in the application process in terms of stats/GPA/MCAT etc. They just chose a different route in life. Not better/not worse. I know it may be hard to understand, but not everybody is completely consumed with money, power, prestige, career, etc. I had plenty of reasons for not applying out of undergrad and not one of which were my stats. Maybe it was wanting a family or the thought of having other people's lives in my hands, but it wasn't numbers. I believe it was you, HumbleMD, that outright bashed me for wanting to do a residency while having children and then told me to question my reasons for applying without knowing a thing about me. I really hope you chose your name in sarcasm!!!

 

[HumbleMD]

Boy, surfing does seem like a great reason to take a year off. Unfortunately, we aren't all Hedonists. Some decide not to take the year off for selfless reasons, such as the ability to make a larger change in the world as a physician sooner (one of my chief reasons for even entering medical school).

And as far as looking down the horizon, have these older folks who are going to have a marriage and kids and a medical school career, have you looked at the divorce rates for doctors in residency and/or medical school?
Article Summary

 

[t-funk]

Actually, it looks like the divorce rates are way lower than the national averages.

 

[FamousPotatoes]

Boy, surfing does seem like a great reason to take a year off. Unfortunately, we aren't all Hedonists.

Wow, such compassion and understanding! Your patients are going to love that condescension.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Answer this question honestly: coming out of undergrad, if you knew you all but had an invite from HMS (or insert dream school), would you take a year off? And why?

Yes, I would have defered and taken a year off. To have a break before medical school so I can appreciate school that much more, to spend one more year with my boyfriend, to get a few life experiences that medschool is goign to put on pause for a bit, and to have a year where I get home after work and don't have to study.

I would definitely take a year off!

 

[SoCuteMD]

Boy, surfing does seem like a great reason to take a year off. Unfortunately, we aren't all Hedonists. Some decide not to take the year off for selfless reasons, such as the ability to make a larger change in the world as a physician sooner (one of my chief reasons for even entering medical school).

And as far as looking down the horizon, have these older folks who are going to have a marriage and kids and a medical school career, have you looked at the divorce rates for doctors in residency and/or medical school?
Article Summary

The data used in that article dates back to 1987. Actually I would say that the people who are married in my class are almost equally split between trads and non-trads. I would bet that down South there are FAR more traditional-track students who are married.

If I had to guess, I would say that those who come into medical school with a year or two of marriage behind them are far more likely to succeed in marriage than someone who gets married during medical school or residency .

The divorce rates they quoted weren't split up by traditional/non-traditional, either, and I'd bet that a notable portion of any med school class (mostly the traditional ones) will get married during med school - making this article probably MORE applicable to the traditional student.

Conclusion: old data, doesn't specifically address age at marriage or age at entering med school, doesn't support what you are asserting.

As far as "the ability to make a difference sooner" I promise you that NO ONE will put "Was a physician for 61 years instead of just 60" on your tombstone.

ETA: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410643_2
"For many years in pre-med college, medical school, and residency, physicians focus on getting through the next hurdle. They may postpone the pleasures of life that others enjoy. It has been hypothesized that this psychology of postponement may be related to compulsive traits. In particular, the compulsive personality traits that are widely heralded as being key ingredients in professional success may have the unwanted consequence of leading to more distant relationships. Many physicians place work above all else, and it has been speculated that this may serve the purpose for them of helping to avoid intimacy, thus placing strain on intimate relationships."

Interesting, the hypothesis here is that the "postponement" is what leads to divorce. Not sure I buy it, but it does support my earlier assertion!!

 

[HumbleMD]

Actually, it looks like the divorce rates are way lower than the national averages.

Actually, of physicians overall, however:
"Physicians who married before medical school graduation had a higher divorce rate than those who waited until after graduation (33 percent versus 23 percent)"

I was surprised that the physician divorce rate was below nat'l averages, as i had heard inflated numbers putting the residency divorce rater around 75%, but couldn't find any numbers on divorce rates specifically during residency. The JHU study does, however, make reference to the fact that oftentimes physicians must unfortunately put family second.

And yes, it's not ideal data, but it's what I could come up with in 2 minutes. And I'd trust an actual study from JHU over socute's anecdotes any day.

 

[HumbleMD]

Wow, such compassion and understanding! Your patients are going to love that condescension.

Compassion and understanding? Yes, I'd much rather have a "compassionate" physician who would rather surf than take care of patients. Or maybe I'd prefer one committed to improving my health and the health of others. Priorities folks.

 

[Rafa]

I wouldn't mind learning how to surf in Hawaii. Good weather round the big island.

 

[FamousPotatoes]

People look to doctors to do more than give them medicine or cut them open. A doctor has to understand a patient's fears and insecurities and treat them mentally/emotionally as well as physically. This is why med schools have interviews. They need to make sure that applicants aren't robots and will be able to interact well with patients. Regardless of the path one takes to medical school, being a well rounded person is going to be critical to relating to patients.

The way I see my decision to take 2 years off is that I would rather spend 40 years being a great doctor because of the experiences and appreciation for medicine I have gained in my time off than 42 years being a competent doctor without them. If taking time off is going to make me (personally, not a generalization) a better doctor, how is that decision selfish?

 

[SoCuteMD]

People look to doctors to do more than give them medicine or cut them open. A doctor has to understand a patient's fears and insecurities and treat them mentally/emotionally as well as physically. This is why med schools have interviews. They need to make sure that applicants aren't robots and will be able to interact well with patients. Regardless of the path one takes to medical school, being a well rounded person is going to be critical to relating to patients.

The way I see my decision to take 2 years off is that I would rather spend 40 years being a great doctor because of the experiences and appreciation for medicine I have gained in my time off than 42 years being a competent doctor without them. If taking time off is going to make me (personally, not a generalization) a better doctor, how is that decision selfish?

 

[musiclink213]

Compassion and understanding? Yes, I'd much rather have a "compassionate" physician who would rather surf than take care of patients. Or maybe I'd prefer one committed to improving my health and the health of others. Priorities folks.

Who says you can't do both? Who says that a physician's only goal in life myst be to improve the health of others? What is wrong with being a well rounded person who has interests outside of medicine? And forgive me, but what is wrong with enjoying life a bit? Are you such a sadist that you can only have one interest and one interest only, that being medicine? And how dare you assume that because I am glad to have a year off so I can do things I always wanted to do (surf, skydive, etc.) that I will not make a good physician? Because that is what you are implying here, buddy.

And can you honestly tell me that one year will make such a big difference in your medical career? Honestly, even while you're a doctor, people will still die and they will still get sick, and they will still get hurt. It's called life. And you won't be able to help every patient you enocunter. So when it all gets to be too much for you because all you can focus on is medicine, well, don't come crying to me because I'll be the one who will be able to keep it all in perspective. Yea, I'll probably be the happy, calm, unstressed doc out on the waves.

BTW, I am in no way trying to put down other traditional students, but I was the one who mentioned I want to learn to surf, and apparently, that means I won't be a good doctor.

 

[notdeadyet]

Come on. You don't need to be an ex-musician or former peace corporal to get into med school.

Ah. I didn't mean to recommend going into the military or peace corps or learns to play bongos for the sake of getting in to medical school. Bad strategy. I meant that some folks have gone down these different paths in life and these diverse backgrounds will happen to enhance their application. Sorry if I was unclear on that.

And what's wrong with the good old fashioned way of being unique, like getting a good GPA/MCAT? Decent personality? Volunteer work/EC's?

There is nothing unique about a good GPA and MCAT. This is the base standard for getting in to medical school. The usual volunteer work and ECs has to be checked off as well. I think "decent personality" is much more rare amongst applicants, but you can't really demonstrate that well until interview day.

Seriously, I think that people going on about 'being unique' are just finding a way to validate their own crappy numbers by saying "oh and I have _____".

Hoping that "uniqueness" will make up for lousy stats is foolhardy. Hoping that having a good GPA and MCAT will get you into med school is also foolhardy.

Schools stress diversity. Some folks tend to read this to be a sneaky way to ask about URM status, but it's really not. Talk to adcoms and advisors. One of the biggest peices of advice is to set yourself apart from the crowd.

Most folks will have a good GPA, MCAT score, volunteer hours, ECs and LORs. What can you do to set yourself apart from the rest of the huge pack of applicants? For nontrads, it's going to be how you spent your time away from school (btw, you better hope you have a good story to tell). For traditionals, it can be a challenge since you don't have those extra years to do so.

Stories of folks with great stats that are scratching their heads wondering why they didn't get into medical school are legion. If you're applying while in college or fresh out of college, just be sure to make your application stand apart from the rest. Don't look like one of the pack.

 

[notdeadyet]

Answer this question honestly: coming out of undergrad, if you knew you all but had an invite from HMS (or insert dream school), would you take a year off? And why?

Oooooh. Very intriguing question.

I can't answer it, because I am not taking a few years off before medicine; I am a career changer. I wasn't looking at medical school coming out of undergrad.

Medical schools may discriminate against career changers to some degree ("Why medicine? Why now?", etc.), but I have never heard of a school turning their nose up at an applicant who took a year or two out. Your application can be strengthened by this.

So if you had a great chance of getting in to Harvard straight out of undergrad, it would only be better after a year of doing something interesting.

 

[Mac11]

There is nothing unique about a good GPA and MCAT.

One of the biggest peices of advice is to set yourself apart from the crowd.

Most folks will have a good GPA, MCAT score, volunteer hours, ECs and LORs. What can you do to set yourself apart from the rest of the huge pack of applicants?

You can have a better GPA, MCAT, etc. Seriously, there is a big difference between a 3.4 GPA and a 3.8 GPA. Your 3.8 GPA makes you 'unique', or at least different from the rest. Yes, everyone has a GPA, but not the same GPA. Same goes for the MCAT.

but I have never heard of a school turning their nose up at an applicant who took a year or two out. Your application can be strengthened by this.

So if you had a great chance of getting in to Harvard straight out of undergrad, it would only be better after a year of doing something interesting.

... you missed the point. The whole point of the question was that, in this theoretical case, your app is strong enough to get you wherever you want, i.e. 'strengthening' would be ******ed.

And because your answer seemed to be that the year off will 'strengthen' the app, it implies the app needs the strengthening. Which is where the crappy #s vibe comes from.

I understand few people fit into the theoretical example I made, but quite a few are capable of getting into a decent medical school they can enjoy, right out of undergrad. So why the wait?