young pathologists have to stick together

[ernie]

If we dont were gonna get f*&^ed

Most American pathologists are clustered around the age of 55. Many are very rich and very greedy. It is shocking how little many of them care about young pathologists.

There is a LOT of $$$ in pathology and its relatively easy to get. Some of the easiest money in medicine. This should be clear from the emergence of of these megalabs. They can lock a bunch of pathologists in a room all day a have them sign out cases. The pathologists think they are making out like bandits - salaries around $200K. Well the joke is on them. The excecutives can easily quadruple their salaries. Yet it the pathologist busting his ass, constantly worried about getting sued, making mistakes and what not. You dont see this happening in any other field.

The derms recognize this and have taken the skins - 22% of outpatient business. - YES nearly 1/4. Does the CAP have any balls? what about the ABP? And now GI and urology (another 15% of outpt business) are fixin to do the same with their "pod" labs and "condo" labs. For the uninitiated, they create their own pathology labs and pay a pathologist a pittance to sign out the cases.

more later

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[EvilNewbie]

I feel for you... I have been saying the exact same thing to residents and medical students going into pathology and I am only a medical student. I realized this while researching more about pathology itself. You have to play smart! You have to beware of corporate pathology labs but you also have to beware of private pathology groups. They don't play nice and the only way we can beat them is if we stick together (sorry, that's an impossibility). In the end, it's people who play the game with some guts that will end up getting the glory. In the end, its not really how high your board scores are or what you have done, but its about how you play the game.

About the GI and uro service taking over, it's true and I confronted some residency programs about this very subject. They brush it off saying that it takes alot to get an accredited lab so many of the GI and uro are apprehensive about the whole thing. I don't think it's true, if there is money to be made then there is a WAY. I wish path would take a stance and begin turf battles, if you guys want to read GI then we will start doing GI procedures... that's the give and take way... and if you guys don't like it, then take a hike with reading our stuff.

 

[LADoc00]

If we dont were gonna get f*&^ed

Most American pathologists are clustered around the age of 55. Many are very rich and very greedy. It is shocking how little many of them care about young pathologists.

There is a LOT of $$$ in pathology and its relatively easy to get. Some of the easiest money in medicine. This should be clear from the emergence of of these megalabs. They can lock a bunch of pathologists in a room all day a have them sign out cases. The pathologists think they are making out like bandits - salaries around $200K. Well the joke is on them. The excecutives can easily quadruple their salaries. Yet it the pathologist busting his ass, constantly worried about getting sued, making mistakes and what not. You dont see this happening in any other field.

The derms recognize this and have taken the skins - 22% of outpatient business. - YES nearly 1/4. Does the CAP have any balls? what about the ABP? And now GI and urology (another 15% of outpt business) are fixin to do the same with their "pod" labs and "condo" labs. For the uninitiated, they create their own pathology labs and pay a pathologist a pittance to sign out the cases.

more later

Dude way way ahead of you. Im forming a path version of Fight Club.

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

 

[ernie]

I've got nothing against a little honest competition between pathologists.

Pathologists, however, should quit shooting themselves in the foot. They should look out for the good of the profession and its practioners.

Labs should be owned and operated by pathologists. No one should sell his soul or his practice to the megalabs.

The turf should be protected. Derm, GI, GU should go F&*^ off.

I know greed is human nature, but people should not be jerked around for partnership.

THe number of trainees should have been regulated a long time ago. (those guys on aol members or whatever were not crazy)

CAP can/should issue strong positions on these things and fight for them.

 

[ernie]

Dude way way ahead of you. Im forming a path version of Fight Club.

I'm starting my own lab, so if you know anyone with some balls and some gumption let me know.

 

[deschutes]

young pathologists have to stick together

Isn't that sort of... what's the word I'm looking for... altruistic? Somewhat like saying, "Don't piss off the nurses".

Most med students don't intend to piss off the nurses, and those who do probably piss off a lot of non-nurses as well. And some nurses are easier to piss off than others.

End ramble.

 

[ernie]

altruistic - something like that. Altruism only evolved because he who helps others helps himself too.

Are you a med student at u of MN, deschutes?

 

[deschutes]

What I was trying to get at was that young pathologists will stick together - or not - and no amount of exhortation is going to get them to do otherwise! Not sure if that is necessarily altruistic.

No, not yet at the U of MN - but I will be in July! Getting my ducks all in a row now.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

altruistic - something like that. Altruism only evolved because he who helps others helps himself too.

I totally agree with you ernie. I don't think it is human nature to be altruistic. Which is why this whole "I want to be a doctor because I want to help people" revolution makes me wanna puke. I have always posited that altruism has underlying selfish motives.

 

[ernie]

What I was trying to get at was that young pathologists will stick together - or not - and no amount of exhortation is going to get them to do otherwise! Not sure if that is necessarily altruistic.

No, not yet at the U of MN - but I will be in July! Getting my ducks all in a row now.

Yeah you're right. Everyone is looking out for #1, but they would help themselves more by looking out for the greater good.

Its like that famous patriot said, "we must all hang together or we will surely hang separately," or something llike that.

Your're going to residency at U of M? If so congratulations

 

[ernie]

I totally agree with you ernie. I don't think it is human nature to be altruistic. Which is why this whole "I want to be a doctor because I want to help people" revolution makes me wanna puke. I have always posited that altruism has underlying selfish motives.

When my lab kicks ass, they're gonna be wishing they hung with me instead kissing some fat middle age pig's ass for all those years and never made partner!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

more later?

hey ernie. I have balls. I have gumption.

 

[ernie]

more later?

hey ernie. I have balls. I have gumption.

balls and gumption, eh? a winning combination

are you a resident? attending? what's your specilaty?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

balls and gumption, eh? a winning combination

are you a resident? attending? what's your specilaty?

attending? negatory.
resident? will be starting this summer (as stated in profile)
specialty? the most badass specialty there is in medicine! PATHOLOGY!

 

[ernie]

attending? negatory.
resident? will be starting this summer (as stated in profile)
specialty? the most badass specialty there is in medicine! PATHOLOGY!

yeah ok - see you in 4 years!

gotta go watch apprentice - learn some intimidation

 

[deschutes]

Yeah you're right. Everyone is looking out for #1, but they would help themselves more by looking out for the greater good.

And to me that is the mark of the educated.

Your're going to residency at U of M? If so congratulations

Thank you! Much looking forward to 90 degree summers with high high high humidity... *dreams*

 

[b&ierstiefel]

yeah ok - see you in 4 years!

gotta go watch apprentice - learn some intimidation

i've been working on my angry game face...i'll take your advice.

You're f*cking fired!

 

[beary]

gotta go watch apprentice - learn some intimidation

I have been very disappointed in this season. I watched every episode of the first two seasons but quit watching this one.

 

[RyMcQ]

You have to beware of corporate pathology labs but you also have to beware of private pathology groups.

I agree on the corporate labs. They are evil and will turn all pathologists into serfs if we let them. CEOs care about the value of their options and if they have to ratchet down the pathologists' salaries to make more money, they won't hesitate to do it.

I am hopeful that the trend will slow and that hospitals will recognize the hell they will have to endure if they try to get real customer service from some light-starved pathologist in a basement in Kansas signing out 150 prostate biopsies every day. I am also hopeful because I know a few retiring pathologists that refused a huge payday when they retired because they didn't want to sell out to the corporate labs.

On the other hand, I think the percentage of evil private pathology groups is much lower than many of you believe. The reason? It's in their best interest to have competent pathologists working with them. A bad pathologist could bring down a whole group. And good pathologists won't take those crappy jobs after word gets out about how disingenuous the partners are. It is a small world when you are a pathologist.

Besides, everyone here just needs to be a kick-ass pathologist, so no one would ever think about screwing you over. Maybe the stories you hear about pathologists being denied partnership are due to the fact that the pathologist actually, you know, sucks? Of course, the fired pathologist is going to bitch about how he was screwed out of a job because he thinks he is the second coming of Juan Rosai, so the story you hear is that path groups are evil and partners are greedy.

You are all smart, right? Think about it...

 

[LADoc00]

I agree on the corporate labs. They are evil and will turn all pathologists into serfs if we let them. CEOs care about the value of their options and if they have to ratchet down the pathologists' salaries to make more money, they won't hesitate to do it.

I am hopeful that the trend will slow and that hospitals will recognize the hell they will have to endure if they try to get real customer service from some light-starved pathologist in a basement in Kansas signing out 150 prostate biopsies every day. I am also hopeful because I know a few retiring pathologists that refused a huge payday when they retired because they didn't want to sell out to the corporate labs.
On the other hand, I think the percentage of evil private pathology groups is much lower than many of you believe. The reason? It's in their best interest to have competent pathologists working with them. A bad pathologist could bring down a whole group. And good pathologists won't take those crappy jobs after word gets out about how disingenuous the partners are. It is a small world when you are a pathologist.

Besides, everyone here just needs to be a kick-ass pathologist, so no one would ever think about screwing you over. Maybe the stories you hear about pathologists being denied partnership are due to the fact that the pathologist actually, you know, sucks? Of course, the fired pathologist is going to bitch about how he was screwed out of a job because he thinks he is the second coming of Juan Rosai, so the story you hear is that path groups are evil and partners are greedy.

You are all smart, right? Think about it...

I have heard of such selfless private practice people as well. Outnumbered, outgunned by commericial labs, holding out til the end so one day, a few scrapy young pathologists can bring the field back to the glory it held in the late 70s and 80s.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO

I just want to comment, if you join a commericial lab you are sellout. Dont come to meetings and try to be all buddy-buddy with the rest of us especially those in Le Resistance. Commericial labs are destroying pathology and assaulting medicine. They are minions of ebil. It is your patriotic duty to rebuff them.
Viva de la Resistance.
that is all.

 

[Gut Shot]

First, we gotta get buff:

Second, we gotta get skilled:

Third, we gotta get armed:

Fourth, we gotta get mean and insensitive to pain:

Then we'll be ready to crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and hear the lamentations of their women.

 

[quant]

The problem in my perspective lies in the very way medicine is taught. This whole principle of "Traditionally a teacher kicks a student s ass"(The all knowing teacher versus the ignorant student thing), and "i ate dirt during my traning so you might as well" are in my opinion at the very root of all the resultant woes of medical people in general.

There are so many examples in Engineering or Sciences where a new breakthrough was initiated by a young rebel with a grand idea,

BUt have you heard of ONE such occurence in Medicine????

But then the very nature of Medicine and all the baggage that it comes with (like tradition,experience etc etc) WILL NOT allow such occurances.

Having said that i think people in medicine are ABOMINABLE in their managerial skills. Often bloated in their ego by their false sense of self importance, they prefer to taken for a ride easily by some two bit MBA from a third rate university.

People in medicine are so battered by circumstances by the time they start their careers, they are often averse to taking risks, (NEVER is the operative word) and prefer to remain at the mercy of any organised corporate organisation for their livelihoods......Or even lawyers for that matter.

The reason why i think Lawyers are so successful at this stuff is because they can disband and regroup at any time they want......to harass more doctors....

Doctors on the other hand with their sense of responsibilities towards patients, life and family never even bother putting up a fight.

Solutions?

I dont know, but i have been thinking hard about that. Personally im not interested in practise, but id say brush up your managerial resposibilites, start as small groups and be agile and nimble in managing your business.....will people get screwed? yeah sure! but then, people do get screwed in ALL fields too!!!!

Take risks....Nothing pays off without risks......Dont just roll over and die....

I know what im saying sounds very stupid....but hey what the hell.... needed to rant

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Solutions?

quant for president in 2008!

who's with me?

 

[beary]

quant for president in 2008!

who's with me?

I am

 

[quant]

quant for president in 2008!

who's with me?

Well if Arnie is taking a shot at it in 2008, i might as well......i can at least speak much better than Ahnoldddd.....
and i think i people who aspire to become pathologists are much better than steroidally grown women ass fondlers....

Im quant and im running for president!!!!........

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Im quant and im running for president!!!!........

F*ckin' right man! Game on!

They better bring their A-game cuz quant's ready to kick some ass and take numbers!

 

[quant]

I am

Merci Mademoiselle!!!!!

Thank you for your vote of confidence!......

When s your thesis presentation coming up beary?

I just set mine for April 15 th !!!

 

[beary]

When s your thesis presentation coming up beary?

I just set mine for April 15 th !!!

April 15!!!! Wow, I didn't know you were getting done so soon!

I'm right before you - April 11.

Though I have got to get this stupid CFTR IP/blot to work! I am doing an hour-long exposure right now and so far no CFTR! *rips hair out*

 

[b&ierstiefel]

April 15!!!! Wow, I didn't know you were getting done so soon!

I'm right before you - April 11.

Though I have got to get this stupid CFTR IP/blot to work! I am doing an hour-long exposure right now and so far no CFTR! *rips hair out*

Have you purchased my BandDraw software? It virtually allows you to fabricate western blot data. In the program are a variety of bands. Some are hazy. Some smile upward. Some even smile downward. Some are crisp. Some are blobby.

 

[quant]

April 15!!!! Wow, I didn't know you were getting done so soon!

I'm right before you - April 11.

Though I have got to get this stupid CFTR IP/blot to work! I am doing an hour-long exposure right now and so far no CFTR! *rips hair out*

Not the PhD....i wish....i m taking an MS along the way. More of a formality......

Just in case the thesis committee decides to say my PhD work is crap......

nahh...im determined to take my PhD.....

 

[beary]

Have you purchased my BandDraw software? It virtually allows you to fabricate western blot data. In the program are a variety of bands. Some are hazy. Some smile upward. Some even smile downward. Some are crisp. Some are blobby.

Sounds good. I will purchase it immediately. This is the stupidest experiment anyway that the reviewers want. It is a no brainer how it will come out, if I could actually get it to work!!

 

[quant]

Have you purchased my BandDraw software? It virtually allows you to fabricate western blot data.

 

[beary]

Just in case the thesis committee decides to say my PhD work is crap......

Right now I definitely feel that my PhD work is crap, but anticipate getting the letters anyway

 

[quant]

Right now I definitely feel that my PhD work is crap, but anticipate getting the letters anyway

I guess that is how everyone feels at the end of it all beary!!!!!



I still have 9 months to go before i get THAT feeling....

 

[Gut Shot]

Have you purchased my BandDraw software? It virtually allows you to fabricate western blot data. In the program are a variety of bands. Some are hazy. Some smile upward. Some even smile downward. Some are crisp. Some are blobby.

Damn, my fellow grad students and I pondered just such software back in the late 90's. I thought "Band Manager" would be a good name. Who the hell needs experiments?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Damn, my fellow grad students and I pondered just such software back in the late 90's. I thought "Band Manager" would be a good name. Who the hell needs experiments?

Yeah man, I could get like 50 Cell papers using that sheeyat!

 

[beary]

Well, I'm going to go develop another exposure - wish me luck!!

Come on CFTR!! Come on CFTR!! Show yourself!!

 

[quant]

Well, I'm going to go develop another exposure - wish me luck!!

Come on CFTR!! Come on CFTR!! Show yourself!!

All the best girl!....

Go get the damn CFTR

 

[beary]

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Good luck beary...may that band light up!

 

[beary]

Thank you quant and Andy. Unfortunately no luck for me.

I guess I will go home, get something to eat, and watch the wall to wall Pope coverage. Too bad my rotation student doesn't know how to do CFTR biochemistry, or I would just make him repeat it again. I certainly am not doing this experiment anymore. Who needs publications.

 

[quant]

Thank you quant and Andy. Unfortunately no luck for me.

I guess I will go home, get something to eat, and watch the wall to wall Pope coverage. Too bad my rotation student doesn't know how to do CFTR biochemistry, or I would just make him repeat it again. I certainly am not doing this experiment anymore. Who needs publications.

awww....take a break
Things work better after a break....I dont know why that happens....but its true......If you were in PA, we d cook some indian food for you!!!.....but i think im gonna head out and get some food myself and maybe down a few pegs of rum...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Thank you quant and Andy. Unfortunately no luck for me.

I guess I will go home, get something to eat, and watch the wall to wall Pope coverage. Too bad my rotation student doesn't know how to do CFTR biochemistry, or I would just make him repeat it again. I certainly am not doing this experiment anymore. Who needs publications.

Ah...the rotation student (which we shorten to "roton") phenomenon. Yes, the 11th commandment is, "Thou shalt not entrust an experiment that is important to YOU to a roton."

I bet it'll work when you repeat the experiment yourself. Hang in there. Have a great weekend.

 

[beary]

Ah...the rotation student (which we shorten to "roton") phenomenon. Yes, the 11th commandment is, "Thou shalt not entrust an experiment that is important to YOU to a roton."

I bet it'll work when you repeat the experiment yourself. Hang in there. Have a great weekend.

Here we call them "rotatos"

Thanks Andy and quant. I already feel a bit better after coming home, eating, and watching some TV.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Here we call them "rotatos"

Thanks Andy and quant. I already feel a bit better after coming home, eating, and watching some TV.

I just got home now. I feel very good. Tonight was a good night.

 

[deschutes]

What is a rotation student?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

What is a rotation student?

grad students here start grad school not having committed to any particular lab in which they will complete their PhD thesis work. to help them decide, they do these rotations which last about 2-3 months. after 2, 3, or 4 of these rotations they pick their thesis lab. until this happens, they are considered rotons.

 

[yaah]

Vive le resistance!

 

[quant]

Vive le resistance!

Who are the resistence.....?