YOUR #1 School and why

[Runnin Doc]

SIU is my top choice... I went to SIUE for undergrad and loved it there! It will be a low stress transition for me, the cost is low (compared to most other schools), and I don't want to live in a big city if I can help it. To many temptations while I am trying to study! Good luck! Dec. 1 is approaching quickly!

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[armorshell]

oh, and i am not alone hear in saying maryland is numero uno...

http://toptennation.blogspot.com/2008/02/top-10-best-dental-schools-in-us-and.html

I can't believe it took someone this long to roll out that trash website. Don't you realize thenopinion of a dude with a blog is just as meaningful as any random poster on SDN? No rigor at all.

 

[hoss19]

maryland is an expensive state school. both UTSan Antonio and LSU are cheaper for out of staters than maryland is for in-staters. and i liked San Antonio and New Orleans way better than baltimore.

i don't think my life is sheltered - i just don't like the city of baltimore. to each his (or her) own.

g'luck getting into those schools as an out of stater!

 

[yayforcoffee]

So nobody's considering UPenn or Tufts as their top schools?? Personally I'm having a hard time deciding which I was more impressed by!!

UPenn -- one of the highest-funded schools, great clinical focus, legit research opportunities, promises great exposure to any of their postgrad programs, their campus is the best i've ever been to, they take care of you because they're an Ivy...(the day I interviewed there apparently they were having a booze cruise that night for the grad students)

Tufts -- makes awesome general practicioners, will be finished with the Vertical Expansion Initiative by the time we're all third years, rotations in all of their specialty programs, practice management courses spread through four years, medicine courses for three years, Boston is the tightest city


I can't believe so many of you want to stay home! Well, I guess those of you that have families have different priorities, but otherwise -- go somewhere new for four years!!

 

[somethinpositiv]

So nobody's considering UPenn or Tufts as their top schools?? Personally I'm having a hard time deciding which I was more impressed by!!

UPenn -- one of the highest-funded schools, great clinical focus, legit research opportunities, promises great exposure to any of their postgrad programs, their campus is the best i've ever been to, they take care of you because they're an Ivy...(the day I interviewed there apparently they were having a booze cruise that night for the grad students)

Filthadelphia? Well, you're right that the campus is very nice, just stay on campus and you won't get shot lol

Prob one of the reasons they are the highest-funded is because of the tuition they charge lol, and they can get away with it because people will consider it the "Ivy tax" haha. And with all that funding, you'd think they'd be able to get you out of the dungeonous basement that they have you in for the first two years. I'm sure it's a great school if you're trying to specialize though.

Tufts -- makes awesome general practicioners, will be finished with the Vertical Expansion Initiative by the time we're all third years, rotations in all of their specialty programs, practice management courses spread through four years, medicine courses for three years, Boston is the tightest city

Tufts would be sweet. Though I didn't know they they had medicine courses over three years, that's a turn-off for me, I'd prefer to get the didactic stuff out of the way after two years and focus on the clinical aspect. And I didn't know it would be that long before they finish the vertical expansion, in all the interview feedbacks they said it would be finished in "a couple years", which I took to mean 2010, but it looks like it will be 2012 huh..

 

[MiamiNole20]

but it looks like it will be 2012 huh..

Actually, at my interview, they said it would be finished by the end of next year, 2009. Even if it wasn't completely finished by that time, it would definitely be done before you enter clinics. Regardless, even w/ the current situation, no students complained about the clinic conditions, patient scheduling, or chair availability. Overall, I was extremely impressed w/ Tufts. Everyone was laid back & friendly = great environment to be in for 4 years. Also, Boston is one of the best cities I've been to.... right up there w/ NYC.

 

[MissionDental]

What about upenn versus columbia? Any opinions?

 

[MiamiNole20]

What about upenn versus columbia? Any opinions?

UPenn

• Down-2-earth faculty & students
• Clinical facilities are pretty good
• Very cool virtual-reality sim lab
• Good school for specializing
• Beautiful campus located in better part of Philly
• Philly is a cool city, but dirty. Good food, lots of bars/clubs, good sports town....
• People in the city (edit) aren't the friendliest, however, I was there when the Phillies had just won the world series, so it was drunken madness.
• Ridiculously expensive

Columbia

• Down-2-earth faculty & students
• Clinical facilities are somewhat old
• Large focus on medicine
• Emphasis on post-doc/specializing
• NYC, IMO, is the best city in the US. Endless amount of things to do: Best food, Best bars/clubs, Good sports town, Arts/Theater - Broadway
• Expensive, but not as bad as UPenn

 

[Bruinlove]

UPenn

• Down-2-earth faculty & students
• Clinical facilities are pretty good
• Very cool virtual-reality sim lab
• Good school for specializing
• Beautiful campus located in better part of Philly
• Philly is a cool city, but dirty. Good food, lots of bars/clubs, good sports town....
• People aren't the friendliest, however, I was there when the Phillies had just won the world series, so it was drunken madness.
• Ridiculously expensive

Columbia

• Down-2-earth faculty & students
• Clinical facilities are somewhat old
• Large focus on medicine
• Emphasis on post-doc/specializing
• NYC, IMO, is the best city in the US. Endless amount of things to do: Best food, Best bars/clubs, Good sports town, Arts/Theater - Broadway
• Expensive, but not as bad as UPenn

Yeah, the facilities were the only difference I could find btw the two schools.

 

[scottyhoop]

VCU..... Sweet dent sims, new labs, nice clinic, friendly students/faculty, much more clinically based than research based, and it's in state. Perfect fit!
Scott

 

[somethinpositiv]

SIU is my top choice... I went to SIUE for undergrad and loved it there! It will be a low stress transition for me, the cost is low (compared to most other schools), and I don't want to live in a big city if I can help it. To many temptations while I am trying to study! Good luck! Dec. 1 is approaching quickly!

I hope everyone with SIU as their top choice gets into SIU, and everyone with UIC as their top choice gets into UIC.

Hooray for the great state of Illinois!

 

[Rezdawg]

As a 4th year student, I'd like to make a couple suggestions for all of you.

First off, dont base your school decision on whether or not a school makes great practitioners or if a school will help you specialize. At the end of the day, YOU are the one that puts in the work to get to where you want to get.

Im at BU...not necessarily a school known for much, other than high tuition. However, I will say that the kids in my class that have worked hard and wanted to specialize...will do so. Ortho, OS, endo, perio, pedo, it doesnt matter. The ones that put their time in and worked at it will be specializing. These same students would be specializing had they gone to UCLA, Nova, or Baylor.

As far as a school that produces good "general practitioners"...not really sure what that means. I'd venture to say that every dental student, regardless of school, has the means to be a good general practitioner. We all have requirements, we are all working hard at them, and we are all getting licensed to practice dentistry after 4 years. Every school will have students that are very prepared and others that may need a little bit more polishing.

You know, people always knock Harvard students for not being prepared after they graduate...and thats a shame. I did a 10 week externship at a community health center with 3 other students, all 3 from Harvard. Sure, they may have picked up a handpiece a little after I did, but they were no further behind as far as knowledge and ability to handle a case.

If you have the intelligence, the work ethic, and the desire to do well, it doesnt matter what school you go to. If you are lacking in one of these areas, it still doesnt matter what school you go to. In the end, you get as far as you have pushed yourself.

Do not pick a school because of its 53% specialization rate or the fact that you heard that they are really good at producing dentists who are great at doing restorative work. Location, tuition, etc...those are the things that should help you decide on the school. If you arent comfortable paying back a hefty loan, apply to schools with low tuitions. If you arent comfortable going to school in a small town, apply to schools that are in big cities. Those are the kinds of things you should base your decision on. But once you enter the doors of that school, it is ALL completely up to you on what happens with your career.

Good luck.

 

[yayforcoffee]

As a 4th year student, I'd like to make a couple suggestions for all of you.

First off, dont base your school decision on whether or not a school makes great practitioners or if a school will help you specialize. At the end of the day, YOU are the one that puts in the work to get to where you want to get.

Im at BU...not necessarily a school known for much, other than high tuition. However, I will say that the kids in my class that have worked hard and wanted to specialize...will do so. Ortho, OS, endo, perio, pedo, it doesnt matter. The ones that put their time in and worked at it will be specializing. These same students would be specializing had they gone to UCLA, Nova, or Baylor.

As far as a school that produces good "general practitioners"...not really sure what that means. I'd venture to say that every dental student, regardless of school, has the means to be a good general practitioner. We all have requirements, we are all working hard at them, and we are all getting licensed to practice dentistry after 4 years. Every school will have students that are very prepared and others that may need a little bit more polishing.

You know, people always knock Harvard students for not being prepared after they graduate...and thats a shame. I did a 10 week externship at a community health center with 3 other students, all 3 from Harvard. Sure, they may have picked up a handpiece a little after I did, but they were no further behind as far as knowledge and ability to handle a case.

If you have the intelligence, the work ethic, and the desire to do well, it doesnt matter what school you go to. If you are lacking in one of these areas, it still doesnt matter what school you go to. In the end, you get as far as you have pushed yourself.

Do not pick a school because of its 53% specialization rate or the fact that you heard that they are really good at producing dentists who are great at doing restorative work. Location, tuition, etc...those are the things that should help you decide on the school. If you arent comfortable paying back a hefty loan, apply to schools with low tuitions. If you arent comfortable going to school in a small town, apply to schools that are in big cities. Those are the kinds of things you should base your decision on. But once you enter the doors of that school, it is ALL completely up to you on what happens with your career.

Good luck.

Awesome advice, thanks for the input.

 

[DiNoZeRo2o9]

As a 4th year student, I'd like to make a couple suggestions for all of you.

First off, dont base your school decision on whether or not a school makes great practitioners or if a school will help you specialize. At the end of the day, YOU are the one that puts in the work to get to where you want to get.

Im at BU...not necessarily a school known for much, other than high tuition. However, I will say that the kids in my class that have worked hard and wanted to specialize...will do so. Ortho, OS, endo, perio, pedo, it doesnt matter. The ones that put their time in and worked at it will be specializing. These same students would be specializing had they gone to UCLA, Nova, or Baylor.

As far as a school that produces good "general practitioners"...not really sure what that means. I'd venture to say that every dental student, regardless of school, has the means to be a good general practitioner. We all have requirements, we are all working hard at them, and we are all getting licensed to practice dentistry after 4 years. Every school will have students that are very prepared and others that may need a little bit more polishing.

You know, people always knock Harvard students for not being prepared after they graduate...and thats a shame. I did a 10 week externship at a community health center with 3 other students, all 3 from Harvard. Sure, they may have picked up a handpiece a little after I did, but they were no further behind as far as knowledge and ability to handle a case.

If you have the intelligence, the work ethic, and the desire to do well, it doesnt matter what school you go to. If you are lacking in one of these areas, it still doesnt matter what school you go to. In the end, you get as far as you have pushed yourself.

Do not pick a school because of its 53% specialization rate or the fact that you heard that they are really good at producing dentists who are great at doing restorative work. Location, tuition, etc...those are the things that should help you decide on the school. If you arent comfortable paying back a hefty loan, apply to schools with low tuitions. If you arent comfortable going to school in a small town, apply to schools that are in big cities. Those are the kinds of things you should base your decision on. But once you enter the doors of that school, it is ALL completely up to you on what happens with your career.

Good luck.

I understand where you are coming from Rezdawg, but if a pre-dent is set on specializing, it is logical for him to choose the school with the highest specialization rate. It is also logical for the pre-dent who wants to be the best general practitioner right away to choose the school that gets the most clinical practice. I completely agree that if you are dedicated, it doesn't matter where you go, but if you are set on a goal and one school has the statistics to prove it can help you get there, why not choose it based on that?

 

[somethinpositiv]

I understand where you are coming from Rezdawg, but if a pre-dent is set on specializing, it is logical for him to choose the school with the highest specialization rate. It is also logical for the pre-dent who wants to be the best general practitioner right away to choose the school that gets the most clinical practice. I completely agree that if you are dedicated, it doesn't matter where you go, but if you are set on a goal and one school has the statistics to prove it can help you get there, why not choose it based on that?

armor, where you at? we need some of your insight on specializing at a school known for producing great general practioners

 

[DrReo]

I understand where you are coming from Rezdawg, but if a pre-dent is set on specializing, it is logical for him to choose the school with the highest specialization rate. It is also logical for the pre-dent who wants to be the best general practitioner right away to choose the school that gets the most clinical practice. I completely agree that if you are dedicated, it doesn't matter where you go, but if you are set on a goal and one school has the statistics to prove it can help you get there, why not choose it based on that?

If you went to a school that had a smaller rate, wouldn't the competition be easier, per se? Those stats are a joke. It is like saying half your college class wants to be teachers. That can vary year-to-year. Same with specializing. Also, how do you know you want to specialize now? Think about it, if you want to go somewhere, every school gives you the same playing field and you're the variable. The variable how hard you work, what type of marks you receive, etc (as stated above). Understand it, and overcome that barrier.

 

[cobalt31]

As a 4th year student, I'd like to make a couple suggestions for all of you.

First off, dont base your school decision on whether or not a school makes great practitioners or if a school will help you specialize. At the end of the day, YOU are the one that puts in the work to get to where you want to get.

Im at BU...not necessarily a school known for much, other than high tuition. However, I will say that the kids in my class that have worked hard and wanted to specialize...will do so. Ortho, OS, endo, perio, pedo, it doesnt matter. The ones that put their time in and worked at it will be specializing. These same students would be specializing had they gone to UCLA, Nova, or Baylor.

As far as a school that produces good "general practitioners"...not really sure what that means. I'd venture to say that every dental student, regardless of school, has the means to be a good general practitioner. We all have requirements, we are all working hard at them, and we are all getting licensed to practice dentistry after 4 years. Every school will have students that are very prepared and others that may need a little bit more polishing.

You know, people always knock Harvard students for not being prepared after they graduate...and thats a shame. I did a 10 week externship at a community health center with 3 other students, all 3 from Harvard. Sure, they may have picked up a handpiece a little after I did, but they were no further behind as far as knowledge and ability to handle a case.

If you have the intelligence, the work ethic, and the desire to do well, it doesnt matter what school you go to. If you are lacking in one of these areas, it still doesnt matter what school you go to. In the end, you get as far as you have pushed yourself.

Do not pick a school because of its 53% specialization rate or the fact that you heard that they are really good at producing dentists who are great at doing restorative work. Location, tuition, etc...those are the things that should help you decide on the school. If you arent comfortable paying back a hefty loan, apply to schools with low tuitions. If you arent comfortable going to school in a small town, apply to schools that are in big cities. Those are the kinds of things you should base your decision on. But once you enter the doors of that school, it is ALL completely up to you on what happens with your career.

Good luck.

solid advice. you make a lot of sense, sir!

 

[Rezdawg]

I understand where you are coming from Rezdawg, but if a pre-dent is set on specializing, it is logical for him to choose the school with the highest specialization rate. It is also logical for the pre-dent who wants to be the best general practitioner right away to choose the school that gets the most clinical practice. I completely agree that if you are dedicated, it doesn't matter where you go, but if you are set on a goal and one school has the statistics to prove it can help you get there, why not choose it based on that?

Let me give you an example of something...Harvard. Obviously, an overwhelming percentage of their students get into the specialty of their choice. Do you think the school is responsible for that? I am confident in saying that it is the TYPE of students they accept that allows them to boast such a great specialization rate. You have to understand that the schools that are known for having students that specialize are the schools that accept students that have always shown a remarkable drive towards academic success.

Sticking with my Harvard story...My 10 week externship with 3 Harvard students. At this point, 2 of them were interviewing for ortho (and eventually got in) and 1 was into an endo program. Therefore, they had pretty much already accomplished what they set out to do. Guess what they were doing in between seeing patients? They were studying dental decks for part II of the boards. Every single day they were studying, even though there was no rush for them to take it and there is no reason for them to do well since they are all pretty much into post-grad programs. Do you think it was Harvard, the school, that was making them study...or do you think it was their own personal drive that was making them sit there and study? Meanwhile, the last thing I wanted to do in between seeing 8-10 patients a day was to study...what would I be doing? Checking email or facebook. The idea of studying when Im already drained is not very appealing to me.

And let me touch up on BU...not really a school that is known for specializing. Want to know why? Because most of the students that go there really dont want to specialize. Its as simple as that. Some of the top kids in my class are going into general dentistry because of family practices back home...Its not the school holding them back from specializing. I have an in at an endo program...it was up to me if I wanted to go there, but I declined, because I have other goals for my career. Same goes for many of my classmates. The ones that have always wanted to specialize will be doing so next year.

Look, I was in your shoes a few years ago and I really felt like the school you go to matters a lot. I also thought that if you go to a "crappier" school, it would be easier to place at the top of the class and specialize. Wrong and wrong. I can assure you that every single school will have students that are gunners, that work their tails off day in and day out, and that are incredibly intelligent. Again, I know that most of what I say will really not have much of an impact because you all have your own personal opinions about schools, but I can assure you of one thing...I promise you that after your 3rd year of dental school, you will realize that it would have made no difference where you went to dental school and that everything that you are is a result of what you decided to do with your career.

 

[armorshell]

armor, where you at? we need some of your insight on specializing at a school known for producing great general practioners

No need I think, rezdawg has said everything I would have. I absolutely agree.

 

[Shunwei]

Let me give you an example of something...Harvard. Obviously, an overwhelming percentage of their students get into the specialty of their choice. Do you think the school is responsible for that? I am confident in saying that it is the TYPE of students they accept that allows them to boast such a great specialization rate. You have to understand that the schools that are known for having students that specialize are the schools that accept students that have always shown a remarkable drive towards academic success.

Sticking with my Harvard story...My 10 week externship with 3 Harvard students. At this point, 2 of them were interviewing for ortho (and eventually got in) and 1 was into an endo program. Therefore, they had pretty much already accomplished what they set out to do. Guess what they were doing in between seeing patients? They were studying dental decks for part II of the boards. Every single day they were studying, even though there was no rush for them to take it and there is no reason for them to do well since they are all pretty much into post-grad programs. Do you think it was Harvard, the school, that was making them study...or do you think it was their own personal drive that was making them sit there and study? Meanwhile, the last thing I wanted to do in between seeing 8-10 patients a day was to study...what would I be doing? Checking email or facebook. The idea of studying when Im already drained is not very appealing to me.

And let me touch up on BU...not really a school that is known for specializing. Want to know why? Because most of the students that go there really dont want to specialize. Its as simple as that. Some of the top kids in my class are going into general dentistry because of family practices back home...Its not the school holding them back from specializing. I have an in at an endo program...it was up to me if I wanted to go there, but I declined, because I have other goals for my career. Same goes for many of my classmates. The ones that have always wanted to specialize will be doing so next year.

Look, I was in your shoes a few years ago and I really felt like the school you go to matters a lot. I also thought that if you go to a "crappier" school, it would be easier to place at the top of the class and specialize. Wrong and wrong. I can assure you that every single school will have students that are gunners, that work their tails off day in and day out, and that are incredibly intelligent. Again, I know that most of what I say will really not have much of an impact because you all have your own personal opinions about schools, but I can assure you of one thing...I promise you that after your 3rd year of dental school, you will realize that it would have made no difference where you went to dental school and that everything that you are is a result of what you decided to do with your career.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, Rezdawg, except that I'd like to add two cents of my own regarding clinical competencies. Since you used Harvard, I will stick to that as well. While I agree wholeheartedly in principle that it is the nature of the students that decide whether or not you are likely to specialize, I do however believe that certain schools have "doctrines" that predispose students for specialization. So for Harvard, while I am sure their students are great, the program has a very heavy emphasis on research, something that residency programs also like and therefore would make their students much more appealing. Therefore, I wouldn't just attribute 100% of the responsibility for specialization on the students alone. If I were to make a call, it's probably 70% student's own work and the effect of the school program.

At the end of the day, however, I also don't think all dentists are trained equally at all aspects. I were to look for a dental researcher, someone at Harvard, Columbia, or our own program would be the schools I'd turn to, but if I were to look for an experienced clinical dentist, I'd turn to a school like Pacific without a doubt. It's not a matter on an all-encompassing statement of "Hey, but there are students from this school who are clinically competent." Yes, there are. However, the likelihood of someone from Harvard being an excellent clinican is definitely lower in my book than someone from UoP.

 

[DiNoZeRo2o9]

I agree with pretty much everything you say, Rezdawg, except that I'd like to add two cents of my own regarding clinical competencies. Since you used Harvard, I will stick to that as well. While I agree wholeheartedly in principle that it is the nature of the students that decide whether or not you are likely to specialize, I do however believe that certain schools have "doctrines" that predispose students for specialization. So for Harvard, while I am sure their students are great, the program has a very heavy emphasis on research, something that residency programs also like and therefore would make their students much more appealing. Therefore, I wouldn't just attribute 100% of the responsibility for specialization on the students alone. If I were to make a call, it's probably 70% student's own work and the effect of the school program.

At the end of the day, however, I also don't think all dentists are trained equally at all aspects. I were to look for a dental researcher, someone at Harvard, Columbia, or our own program would be the schools I'd turn to, but if I were to look for an experienced clinical dentist, I'd turn to a school like Pacific without a doubt. It's not a matter on an all-encompassing statement of "Hey, but there are students from this school who are clinically competent." Yes, there are. However, the likelihood of someone from Harvard being an excellent clinican is definitely lower in my book than someone from UoP.

THANK YOU

That is all I was saying....I know most of the responsibility falls upon the student, but schools have different philosophies and different approaches to dentistry. When my friends ask me "which one is better, UCSF or UoP" I tell them you can't really compare them because their two totally different schools with different focuses.

 

[Rezdawg]

I agree with pretty much everything you say, Rezdawg, except that I'd like to add two cents of my own regarding clinical competencies. Since you used Harvard, I will stick to that as well. While I agree wholeheartedly in principle that it is the nature of the students that decide whether or not you are likely to specialize, I do however believe that certain schools have "doctrines" that predispose students for specialization. So for Harvard, while I am sure their students are great, the program has a very heavy emphasis on research, something that residency programs also like and therefore would make their students much more appealing. Therefore, I wouldn't just attribute 100% of the responsibility for specialization on the students alone. If I were to make a call, it's probably 70% student's own work and the effect of the school program.

At the end of the day, however, I also don't think all dentists are trained equally at all aspects. I were to look for a dental researcher, someone at Harvard, Columbia, or our own program would be the schools I'd turn to, but if I were to look for an experienced clinical dentist, I'd turn to a school like Pacific without a doubt. It's not a matter on an all-encompassing statement of "Hey, but there are students from this school who are clinically competent." Yes, there are. However, the likelihood of someone from Harvard being an excellent clinican is definitely lower in my book than someone from UoP.

Well, every student has the ability to do research. Sure, Harvard places more emphasis on it, but that really doesnt mean anything. Every single dental student in the country can improve their resumes with research. Every single dental student in the country has the opportunity to do research. Therefore, thats not a reason to choose Harvard or Columbia over another school.

As far as talking about a "clinical" dentist...do you know what Harvard's requirements are for graduation? I'd say its on par with BU and Tufts. In fact, in hanging out with the Harvard kids, there are some areas that we have a little bit more experience and there are some areas that they have more experience than me. Its give and take, but at the end of the day, the difference is very minimal.

Every dental school in the country has to go through the same accreditation process every 7 years...do you really think there is that much of a difference between schools, if any?

I'd like to ask you why you think UOP produces such great general practitioners...what is it in their curriculum that makes them so extraordinary compared to other schools? I have a friend there...they need 6 denture patients, 150 surfaces of operative, 20 extractions, and something around 18 crowns. Im not sure about the perio requirements. I can give you a list of what I have done thus far and will do by the time I graduate...and I can assure you, again, that the difference is almost non-existent.

In fact, I know for sure that Harvard students, through their clinic and externships, will do more oral surgery and perio than UOP students and an equal number of crowns. I'd say that UOP does more operative than Harvard...but fillings are easy...the difference between doing 45 or 60 is very little.

Again, I know you guys have your opinions and nothing is going to change that...youve all heard about the schools that train great general dentists and those that produces specialists...its something you have heard from the moment you started looking at dental schools. Once you are in and you have gone through the clinic, you will see for yourself.

 

[UCSF2012]

As a 4th year student, I'd like to make a couple suggestions for all of you.

First off, dont base your school decision on whether or not a school makes great practitioners or if a school will help you specialize. At the end of the day, YOU are the one that puts in the work to get to where you want to get.

Im at BU...not necessarily a school known for much, other than high tuition. However, I will say that the kids in my class that have worked hard and wanted to specialize...will do so. Ortho, OS, endo, perio, pedo, it doesnt matter. The ones that put their time in and worked at it will be specializing. These same students would be specializing had they gone to UCLA, Nova, or Baylor.

As far as a school that produces good "general practitioners"...not really sure what that means. I'd venture to say that every dental student, regardless of school, has the means to be a good general practitioner. We all have requirements, we are all working hard at them, and we are all getting licensed to practice dentistry after 4 years. Every school will have students that are very prepared and others that may need a little bit more polishing.

You know, people always knock Harvard students for not being prepared after they graduate...and thats a shame. I did a 10 week externship at a community health center with 3 other students, all 3 from Harvard. Sure, they may have picked up a handpiece a little after I did, but they were no further behind as far as knowledge and ability to handle a case.

If you have the intelligence, the work ethic, and the desire to do well, it doesnt matter what school you go to. If you are lacking in one of these areas, it still doesnt matter what school you go to. In the end, you get as far as you have pushed yourself.

Do not pick a school because of its 53% specialization rate or the fact that you heard that they are really good at producing dentists who are great at doing restorative work. Location, tuition, etc...those are the things that should help you decide on the school. If you arent comfortable paying back a hefty loan, apply to schools with low tuitions. If you arent comfortable going to school in a small town, apply to schools that are in big cities. Those are the kinds of things you should base your decision on. But once you enter the doors of that school, it is ALL completely up to you on what happens with your career.

Good luck.

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. Go to the best school possible. Which school is that? Ours. Why? Cuz I said so.

 

[LatPterygoid]

As a 4th year student, I'd like to make a couple suggestions for all of you.

First off, dont base your school decision on whether or not a school makes great practitioners or if a school will help you specialize. At the end of the day, YOU are the one that puts in the work to get to where you want to get.

Im at BU...not necessarily a school known for much, other than high tuition. However, I will say that the kids in my class that have worked hard and wanted to specialize...will do so. Ortho, OS, endo, perio, pedo, it doesnt matter. The ones that put their time in and worked at it will be specializing. These same students would be specializing had they gone to UCLA, Nova, or Baylor.

As far as a school that produces good "general practitioners"...not really sure what that means. I'd venture to say that every dental student, regardless of school, has the means to be a good general practitioner. We all have requirements, we are all working hard at them, and we are all getting licensed to practice dentistry after 4 years. Every school will have students that are very prepared and others that may need a little bit more polishing.

You know, people always knock Harvard students for not being prepared after they graduate...and thats a shame. I did a 10 week externship at a community health center with 3 other students, all 3 from Harvard. Sure, they may have picked up a handpiece a little after I did, but they were no further behind as far as knowledge and ability to handle a case.

If you have the intelligence, the work ethic, and the desire to do well, it doesnt matter what school you go to. If you are lacking in one of these areas, it still doesnt matter what school you go to. In the end, you get as far as you have pushed yourself.

Do not pick a school because of its 53% specialization rate or the fact that you heard that they are really good at producing dentists who are great at doing restorative work. Location, tuition, etc...those are the things that should help you decide on the school. If you arent comfortable paying back a hefty loan, apply to schools with low tuitions. If you arent comfortable going to school in a small town, apply to schools that are in big cities. Those are the kinds of things you should base your decision on. But once you enter the doors of that school, it is ALL completely up to you on what happens with your career.

Good luck.

One hidden problem in this discussion: lots of students enter dental school wanting to specialize, but they eventually change their mind once they realize they're not performing as well relative to the rest of the class. I have lots of friends in this category. On the first week of class, they talk about wanting oral surgery or ortho. Several B's into the semester they're not sure anymore whether they want to specialize. They had the credentials coming into school, but class exams are sometimes weird. They're not always on point, some are poorly written, some students have more back exams than others, etc. Too many variables factor into whether you'll do well on exams. Some schools require that you do well in class alongside Part I, so it'd be nice to go to a school that doesn't decide for you whether you want to specialize.

 

[Plopper]

One hidden problem in this discussion: lots of students enter dental school wanting to specialize, but they eventually change their mind once they realize they're not performing as well relative to the rest of the class. I have lots of friends in this category. On the first week of class, they talk about wanting oral surgery or ortho. Several B's into the semester they're not sure anymore whether they want to specialize. They had the credentials coming into school, but class exams are sometimes weird. They're not always on point, some are poorly written, some students have more back exams than others, etc. Too many variables factor into whether you'll do well on exams. Some schools require that you do well in class alongside Part I, so it'd be nice to go to a school that doesn't decide for you whether you want to specialize.

like uh pass fail?

 

[LatPterygoid]

like uh pass fail?

Yup. P/F has its perks. In schools with grades, sometimes that school will decide for you that you don't want to specialize. Happens every year.

 

[Shunwei]

Well, every student has the ability to do research. Sure, Harvard places more emphasis on it, but that really doesnt mean anything. Every single dental student in the country can improve their resumes with research. Every single dental student in the country has the opportunity to do research. Therefore, thats not a reason to choose Harvard or Columbia over another school.

As far as talking about a "clinical" dentist...do you know what Harvard's requirements are for graduation? I'd say its on par with BU and Tufts. In fact, in hanging out with the Harvard kids, there are some areas that we have a little bit more experience and there are some areas that they have more experience than me. Its give and take, but at the end of the day, the difference is very minimal.

Every dental school in the country has to go through the same accreditation process every 7 years...do you really think there is that much of a difference between schools, if any?

I'd like to ask you why you think UOP produces such great general practitioners...what is it in their curriculum that makes them so extraordinary compared to other schools? I have a friend there...they need 6 denture patients, 150 surfaces of operative, 20 extractions, and something around 18 crowns. Im not sure about the perio requirements. I can give you a list of what I have done thus far and will do by the time I graduate...and I can assure you, again, that the difference is almost non-existent.

In fact, I know for sure that Harvard students, through their clinic and externships, will do more oral surgery and perio than UOP students and an equal number of crowns. I'd say that UOP does more operative than Harvard...but fillings are easy...the difference between doing 45 or 60 is very little.

Again, I know you guys have your opinions and nothing is going to change that...youve all heard about the schools that train great general dentists and those that produces specialists...its something you have heard from the moment you started looking at dental schools. Once you are in and you have gone through the clinic, you will see for yourself.

I agree with that first statement but not the second. Indeed students can enrich their CV with research but not all schools are equal in that regard. You don't really think that students would find it easier to find positions in labs with exciting, well-funded research at Harvard/Columbia/UCLA compared to anothor school like UoP? Most residency programs I know of love research (they always need a hand in doing the grunt work), so any experience in doing so in dental school is undoubtedly an asset for applying for a residency. This is not to say that you can't do research at a place where it is not emphasized--it's just that your exposure to cutting-edge work, # of opportunities, possibility of making connections, are just at a comparative disadvantage.

About Harvard's curriculum, I don't have the exact #'s of their clinical requirements vis-a-vis UoP (I'd have to dig back to my interview information from last year, although Armorshell may have the info available). However, I do recall that the difference is quite significant. You might be right in that Harvard does more perio/oral surgery work (again, I'd like a 3rd party verification in this), but that's probably why a lot of their students end up in perio/OMFS residencies. It should also be mentioned that many of them end up in academic dentistry as well, courtesy of their research exposure. In any case, if a place like UoP does more fillings and operative procedures, doesn't that exposure alone make them more likely to become good GP's, since these are the "bread-and-butter" of general dentistry? One thing that people have to keep in mind is that dentistry, like pretty much anything else in life, is a matter of honing your skills through repeated practice and work. So someone with a lot of experience in the operatives can simply be an efficient and prolific worker based on experience and seasoning. This is why a lot of young graduating dentists need 2-3 years of constant, regular work at a private practice to really get their clinical skills honed to an efficient and productive level.

Like you say, anything is a give and take. At a place where research is heavily emphasized, other parts of the curriculum will be of lesser importance simply due to time and effort limitations. So while I agree with you wholeheartedly in principle that good, motivated students will succeed no matter where they go, I think the nature of a school can predispose the individual for certain career paths. That's comparable to the nature vs. nurture effect we are all exposed to in life.

 

[misstoothfairy]

I agree with that first statement but not the second. Indeed students can enrich their CV with research but not all schools are equal in that regard. You don't really think that students would find it easier to find positions in labs with exciting, well-funded research at Harvard/Columbia/UCLA compared to anothor school like UoP? Most residency programs I know of love research (they always need a hand in doing the grunt work), so any experience in doing so in dental school is undoubtedly an asset for applying for a residency. This is not to say that you can't do research at a place where it is not emphasized--it's just that your exposure to cutting-edge work, # of opportunities, possibility of making connections, are just at a comparative disadvantage.

About Harvard's curriculum, I don't have the exact #'s of their clinical requirements vis-a-vis UoP (I'd have to dig back to my interview information from last year, although Armorshell may have the info available). However, I do recall that the difference is quite significant. You might be right in that Harvard does more perio/oral surgery work (again, I'd like a 3rd party verification in this), but that's probably why a lot of their students end up in perio/OMFS residencies. It should also be mentioned that many of them end up in academic dentistry as well, courtesy of their research exposure. In any case, if a place like UoP does more fillings and operative procedures, doesn't that exposure alone make them more likely to become good GP's, since these are the "bread-and-butter" of general dentistry? One thing that people have to keep in mind is that dentistry, like pretty much anything else in life, is a matter of honing your skills through repeated practice and work. So someone with a lot of experience in the operatives can simply be an efficient and prolific worker based on experience and seasoning. This is why a lot of young graduating dentists need 2-3 years of constant, regular work at a private practice to really get their clinical skills honed to an efficient and productive level.

Like you say, anything is a give and take. At a place where research is heavily emphasized, other parts of the curriculum will be of lesser importance simply due to time and effort limitations. So while I agree with you wholeheartedly in principle that good, motivated students will succeed no matter where they go, I think the nature of a school can predispose the individual for certain career paths. That's comparable to the nature vs. nurture effect we are all exposed to in life.

Rezdawg, you're making a lot of sense. Everything you are saying. I am curious tho, what other schools did you get accepted to and decide to choose BU, and why?

 

[Shunwei]

.

 

[Rezdawg]

Rezdawg, you're making a lot of sense. Everything you are saying. I am curious tho, what other schools did you get accepted to and decide to choose BU, and why?

I didnt have many options...went with BU kinda by default. It was either NYU, BU, or UT-Houston the following year (was waitlisted and told that no spot are available for that year, but I could get a spot for the following academic year).

At the time, I had already been out of school for a couple of years, so I was eager to start somewhere. Basically, out of BU and NYU, I chose to go with the smaller class size, less cost of living, less tuition. Not that I saved much, but better than nothing. Plus, BU accepted me first, and I had made some good connections with the admissions people there, so it felt right to choose BU over NYU.

If I had to do it over again, I wouldnt mind going to BU, but I wish I could have picked up the school and placed it in a warmer climate.

And to Shunwei, regarding UoP and Harvard clinical requirements...Im sure they are different. However, keep in mind that Harvard does a 12 week externship at a community health center where they get a lot of work done that doesnt count towards their clinical requirements. Just to put things into perspective, I did 10 weeks at the site. These are the procedures I did:

13 Complete dentures
11 Partial dentures
40+ extractions
34 fillings for a total of 75 surfaces
46 scaling/prophy
16 SRP's

Actually, if anything, I am lowballing these numbers because I didnt record every procedure I did...these are just what I got around to writing down at the time they took place.

The Harvard kids, by putting in an extra 2 weeks, did more than I did. These figures do not count towards their requirements for graduation. Consider it "extra" practice. Therefore, if you want a true comparison with UoP, you would need to include this extra practice that Harvard gets and add it to their school requirements.

LatPterygoid, sure, P/F does change things up a bit...but I guarantee you that students looking to specialize with that system work just as hard as students looking to specialize with an A/B/C/D/F system. In the end, the ones that specialize are the ones that have worked their butts off. You dont get a 90+ board score by cruising. And BU hasnt held me back at all from specializing had I wanted to...in fact, Im confident that if it was something I wanted to do, I would have no problems getting in. Only problem is that I am interested in high-end cosmetic dentistry, so no need to specialize.

Honestly though, there is really no point in me continuing to prove my point...I have friends that are 4th years or recent grads from numerous schools throughout the country and we all basically agree on this point. I just think you guys should choose a school that has the qualities that will make you happy (location, climate, nightlife, proximity to home, cost of living, etc...). Being miserable in a city and at a school for 4 years, just because they have a 13% higher specialization rate is silly, imo.

If you all have any questions I could help with, dont hesitate to ask. Good luck.

 

[Plopper]

I didnt have many options...went with BU kinda by default. It was either NYU, BU, or UT-Houston the following year (was waitlisted and told that no spot are available for that year, but I could get a spot for the following academic year).

At the time, I had already been out of school for a couple of years, so I was eager to start somewhere. Basically, out of BU and NYU, I chose to go with the smaller class size, less cost of living, less tuition. Not that I saved much, but better than nothing. Plus, BU accepted me first, and I had made some good connections with the admissions people there, so it felt right to choose BU over NYU.

If I had to do it over again, I wouldnt mind going to BU, but I wish I could have picked up the school and placed it in a warmer climate.

And to Shunwei, regarding UoP and Harvard clinical requirements...Im sure they are different. However, keep in mind that Harvard does a 12 week externship at a community health center where they get a lot of work done that doesnt count towards their clinical requirements. Just to put things into perspective, I did 10 weeks at the site. These are the procedures I did:

13 Complete dentures
11 Partial dentures
40+ extractions
34 fillings for a total of 75 surfaces
46 scaling/prophy
16 SRP's

Actually, if anything, I am lowballing these numbers because I didnt record every procedure I did...these are just what I got around to writing down at the time they took place.

The Harvard kids, by putting in an extra 2 weeks, did more than I did. These figures do not count towards their requirements for graduation. Consider it "extra" practice. Therefore, if you want a true comparison with UoP, you would need to include this extra practice that Harvard gets and add it to their school requirements.

LatPterygoid, sure, P/F does change things up a bit...but I guarantee you that students looking to specialize with that system work just as hard as students looking to specialize with an A/B/C/D/F system. In the end, the ones that specialize are the ones that have worked their butts off. You dont get a 90+ board score by cruising. And BU hasnt held me back at all from specializing had I wanted to...in fact, Im confident that if it was something I wanted to do, I would have no problems getting in. Only problem is that I am interested in high-end cosmetic dentistry, so no need to specialize.

Honestly though, there is really no point in me continuing to prove my point...I have friends that are 4th years or recent grads from numerous schools throughout the country and we all basically agree on this point. I just think you guys should choose a school that has the qualities that will make you happy (location, climate, nightlife, proximity to home, cost of living, etc...). Being miserable in a city and at a school for 4 years, just because they have a 13% higher specialization rate is silly, imo.

If you all have any questions I could help with, dont hesitate to ask. Good luck.

i like that part

i'm having such a difficult time deciding which school i liked the best, so i'm going to wait and see where i get in.

i think at nova, what seems to be the blank change = acceptance, so if i get in there i am very tempted to go. i have family down there, but my parents still live up north. but it is so warm, and is an area of the country i could see myself wanting to end up in

idk, lots of thinking to do

 

[Rezdawg]

In any case, if a place like UoP does more fillings and operative procedures, doesn't that exposure alone make them more likely to become good GP's, since these are the "bread-and-butter" of general dentistry?

Well, the bread and butter of general dentistry should be more centered around fixed prosth (crowns), which Harvard and UoP are almost identical in with regards to requirements. As far as fillings are concerned, at this point, I am very confident that I can restore any tooth that is capable of being restored with amalgam or composite. Ive done probably about 125 surfaces so far and that has given me more than enough experience. Honestly, doing basic operative at this point is boring and no longer a challenge. Not saying this to be cocky, but trying to show its not that difficult to become competent with fillings...One school doing 15 more fillings than another school is quite meaningless.

 

[Shunwei]

Well, the bread and butter of general dentistry should be more centered around fixed prosth (crowns), which Harvard and UoP are almost identical in with regards to requirements. As far as fillings are concerned, at this point, I am very confident that I can restore any tooth that is capable of being restored with amalgam or composite. Ive done probably about 125 surfaces so far and that has given me more than enough experience. Honestly, doing basic operative at this point is boring and no longer a challenge. Not saying this to be cocky, but trying to show its not that difficult to become competent with fillings...One school doing 15 more fillings than another school is quite meaningless.

There are problems with your analyses, in my opinion. First of all, many schools have externships/community service programs and these are also not counted towards grad requirements. So if you factor these in the "extra practice" you cited for H students might very well be a wash or a negative. Secondly, I'd like for a 3rd party on here who is intimately familar with both H and other "clinical" schools to provide hard comparative stats (I am too lazy to search through my old archives), and even then it might not take into account the relative difficulty of the cases. UoP, for example, does not have many residency programs so a lot of the cases are quite extensive and comprehensive. And lastly, I do recall that H students do not obtain any clinical experience at all until their 3rd year; up until then they do something called "Doctor-Patient" role-playing, but to me that is not very much. A lot of the curriculum is shared with the Med students, which I believe is an unnecessary incorporation. They do well on the Boards, but it might be the nature of the students you discussed earlier. It's hard to convince me that people who get comparatively low clinical exposure like that can be as prolific and efficient a clinician as other students who go into clinic much earlier and handle more cases. A lot of the clinic experience is about familiarity, efficiency, and speed. Of the dentists that I know who graduated from H, I honestly don't know too many that are good clinicians--a lot of them are good researchers, but that's precisely what I discussed previously.

In the final analysis, I am a firm believer in the value of experience. There are just so many things that only experience can teach us, and having a dental program that stresses that is extremely important. Research is valuable, but in my judgment H is overly geared towards it and I think it is a skewed vision. I guess one can make this comparison for basically a lot of schools in the same locale, like Temple vs. Penn, UoP vs. UCSF, BU/Tufts vs. H, NYU vs. Columbia, and so forth. I do agree with your assessment, however, that one should go to a place where he/she is happy. That would be my final take-home message, and I think I have commented enough on this. It's cool to agree to disagree.

 

[LatPterygoid]

LatPterygoid, sure, P/F does change things up a bit...but I guarantee you that students looking to specialize with that system work just as hard as students looking to specialize with an A/B/C/D/F system. In the end, the ones that specialize are the ones that have worked their butts off. You dont get a 90+ board score by cruising. And BU hasnt held me back at all from specializing had I wanted to...in fact, Im confident that if it was something I wanted to do, I would have no problems getting in. Only problem is that I am interested in high-end cosmetic dentistry, so no need to specialize.

My point is a more subtle one. All students looking to specialize will work hard, but only some will get the results they were seeking. Class performance acts as a screen at some schools. Some students will work hard because they want to specialize, but due to less than stellar performance they later decide to not seek a specialty. This is not to say that they did poorly. Rather, they didn't get that top 10 or 20 or 30 percentile they were seeking.

This comes into play in a few scenarios, like when a student is deciding between UCLA or WVU. If that student decided to go to WVU, there's more of a need to be at the top of the class. Otherwise, your dreams may slowly dissolve. This is a small point, but it has practical meaning. Class tests are not standardized exams. There are sometimes errors, they don't focus on the material taught, or they came from left field. A top student can easily trip on class exams. Even worse is a scenario where a "dumber" student was given more back exams and ace his exam without trying. You, on the other hand, fought to make that B+.

Having back exams is the single most important factor in performance next to knowing the material. You can know less information than the guy next to you and do better if you have more pertinent back exams. Grad school performance is not as nice as the ideal case.

 

[armorshell]

All I can give you guys right now is an IOU that I'll bump this sucker after break and drop some knowledge on y'all...too hard posting a 13 page mastercrafted response off the iPhone.

 

[DrReo]

All I can give you guys right now is an IOU that I'll bump this sucker after break and drop some knowledge on y'all...too hard posting a 13 page mastercrafted response off the iPhone.

Thanks. So there is something that the iPhone cannot do...

 

[armorshell]

I can make a few comments, based on my personal experience with a "general dentist school", and being a student interested in specializing.

Shunwei mentioned research opportunities being an important draw to "specialty schools", implying there's a dearth of research opportunities elsewhere. My experience has been the opposite. At a school where most are interested in becoming a GP, student researchers are few and far between, so almost all faculty are incredibly welcoming of interested students, and students have their pick of great projects. I have one project I'm writing up for publication and another I'll finish before graduation and I'm only halfway through 2nd year.

 

[armorshell]

To rezdawg, I don't know how good a metric comparing clinical requirements is to determine the clinical aptitude of the students. I don't know where you're getting these numbers for uop, but we don't even have traditional number requirements, everything is based on competencies. Knowing the minimum number of procedures students must complete doesn't really tell you what they're actually doing and doesn't in any way address the difficulty or scope of what students are doing.

Of course, most of these differences are probably minor in the large scope of thing and in the long run the amount of debt you accrue is probably more important than anything.

 

[bearsfan55]

wayyyy tooo much reading on this thread... i'll pass

 

[Rezdawg]

To rezdawg, I don't I ow how good a metric comparing clinical requirements is to determine the clinical aptitude of the students. I don't know where you're getting these numbers for uop, but we don't even have traditional number requirements, everything is based on competencies. Knowing the minimum number of procedures students must complete doesn't really tell you what they're actually doing and doesn't in any way address the difficulty or scope of what students are doing.

Of course, most of these differences are probably minor in the large scope of thing and in the long run the amount of debt you accrue is probably more important than anything.

Dont you have to do a minimum number of procedures to qualify for the competencies? Not sure, I had just asked a buddy and he had told me that those are the numbers that he aimed for at UoP and could graduate with.

Regarding the number system to compare clinical aptitude of patients...I think its the most accurate way to compare. I understand that someone doing 5 easy crown preps may not equal someone doing 1 challenging crown prep, but there is no other way to compare. Which brings me to my point...then how does UoP get such a reputation for producing great general dentists? There has to be something that is done differently or extraordinarily at UoP that gives it this distinction. Thats all Im trying to figure out because from what I have gone through and what many of my friends have gone through, I really see no difference between the school programs...and that includes "clinically oriented" programs along with "research oriented" programs.

As far as the difficulty or scope of the procedures...yeah, you're right. However, when you are talking about one student doing 130 surfaces and another doing 160 surfaces of restorative, then I think its safe to say that both students have encountered challenging and difficult procedures. There really is no way to gauge exactly what each student is encountering...you just figure every student will have an easy occlusal along with a difficult MOD or class IV...or even an easy MOD along with a challenging 2 surface restoration. In the long run, the law of averages catches up.

Edit: Im not saying any of this to put down UoP...Im just really curious as to what the differences are between programs and why that forms such a contrast of public opinion between schools.

 

[armorshell]

I understand you're not putting down my school, and understand I'm not trying to build it up either; just trying to draw from what I've learned by being a student here.

One important quality for the "advanced clinical curriculum" or whatever you want to call it here is that there aren't specialty programs for prosth, perio or endo, so DDS students take the more advanced procedures that would normally be going to those residents. That's just one example I can think of at the moment.

 

[armorshell]

Bump for post-dec 1 fun

 

[AlwaysImproving]

Harvard is my #1

Frankly, Problem-Based Learning is the best thing Harvard has, I really want PBL instead of Lecture-based.

I did not get the call from Harvard, so I might be rejected or waitlisted. My interview went amazing but it wasn't enough to get me the call bec/ of my DAT/GPA (I think). Anywho, I am hoping for waitlist (intead of rejection). Meanwhile, trying to decide bet/ UF (state school) or Tufts (my sister goes there).
Any ideas??

THANK YOU so much everyone for sharing ideas with me. I wish everyone the best and I hope everyone got/gets in their #1 school.

 

[Oralfixation]

The Medical College of Georgia School of Dentistry is my number 1 school. A 99.97% passage rate on the boards, low tuition, amazing staff with alot of heart and pride, and students are selected not only for academic ability but for personality and ability to have chemistry with other students, and the school offers its own financing and loans to students. So to me it is all that and peach cobbler too. But one must remember, a dental school, as pertaining to an individual student, is only as good as that student attending it. The student will be the limiting reactant in almost all of these equations.

 

[DCRedskinsRule]

anyone who has interviewed at UMaryland would have a hard time saying that it is not the creme de la creme.

is there anyone out there who interviewed at UMaryland and thinks otherwise? I am curious....

oh, and i am not alone hear in saying maryland is numero uno...

http://toptennation.blogspot.com/2008/02/top-10-best-dental-schools-in-us-and.html

Actually I whole-heartedly disagree as well. I interviewed and got in as an out of state student and I wasn't impressed by UMD at all. I actually think it's really over-hyped. Now don't get me wrong, it's a great school with an AMAZING facility, but IMHO it doesn't necessarily deserve it's top-tier reputation that everyone gives it without really knowing the school... Again just my personal opinion. Not looking to get crucified by all the UMD'ers...

 

[tjdent]

Columbia or UCSF. Both are in great cities, both use pass/fail systems, and both are easier schools to specialize out of... or so I thought until rezdawg stepped in

 

[Plopper]

Harvard is my #1 bec/ tests are P/F and they told me at my interview (the students) that if you F, then you get the same exam to re-take. Also, they said the Med students are so eager to give them the best notes and there is no competition, they all help each other.

But frankly, Problem-Based Learning is the best thing Harvard has, I really want PBL instead of Lecture-based.

I did not get the call from Harvard, so I might be rejected or waitlisted. My interview went amazing but it wasn't enough to get me the call bec/ of my DAT/GPA. Anywho, I am hoping for waitlist (intead of rejection). Meanwhile, trying to decide bet/ UF (state school) or Tufts (my sister goes there).
Any ideas??

THANK YOU so much everyone for sharing ideas with me. I wish everyone the best and I hope everyone got/gets in their #1 school.

i think you have a chance, well more than me, i received an email today from Harvard saying that the ADCOM haven't completed their review of me yet. so we still have a ray of hope!! (it was an amazing program after all)

 

[Hoky Poky]

There are problems with your analyses, in my opinion. First of all, many schools have externships/community service programs and these are also not counted towards grad requirements. So if you factor these in the "extra practice" you cited for H students might very well be a wash or a negative. Secondly, I'd like for a 3rd party on here who is intimately familar with both H and other "clinical" schools to provide hard comparative stats (I am too lazy to search through my old archives), and even then it might not take into account the relative difficulty of the cases. UoP, for example, does not have many residency programs so a lot of the cases are quite extensive and comprehensive. And lastly, I do recall that H students do not obtain any clinical experience at all until their 3rd year; up until then they do something called "Doctor-Patient" role-playing, but to me that is not very much. A lot of the curriculum is shared with the Med students, which I believe is an unnecessary incorporation. They do well on the Boards, but it might be the nature of the students you discussed earlier. It's hard to convince me that people who get comparatively low clinical exposure like that can be as prolific and efficient a clinician as other students who go into clinic much earlier and handle more cases. A lot of the clinic experience is about familiarity, efficiency, and speed. Of the dentists that I know who graduated from H, I honestly don't know too many that are good clinicians--a lot of them are good researchers, but that's precisely what I discussed previously.

In the final analysis, I am a firm believer in the value of experience. There are just so many things that only experience can teach us, and having a dental program that stresses that is extremely important. Research is valuable, but in my judgment H is overly geared towards it and I think it is a skewed vision. I guess one can make this comparison for basically a lot of schools in the same locale, like Temple vs. Penn, UoP vs. UCSF, BU/Tufts vs. H, NYU vs. Columbia, and so forth. I do agree with your assessment, however, that one should go to a place where he/she is happy. That would be my final take-home message, and I think I have commented enough on this. It's cool to agree to disagree.

I can't emphasize enough to predents to do their own research and not trust everything that is said on these boards. Bias exists everywhere and hearsay is repeated again and again.
If you are really interested in a school, try contacting a student that attends there. You might be surprised.

 

[doc3232]

GREAT THREAD. I think all you predents should read it. There is great info on the second page about which school SHOULD be your number 1.

 

[Lilliana]

UCLA is AWSOMEEEEEEE. besides the fact that it is in a great area, new facilities and low price, my close friend study medicine at UCLA my #2 is UOPPPPP . oh boy the location is beyond imagination (one of the best area in SF), and 3 years come onnnnnnn
#3 would be Maryland