Your advice to me

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psych844

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So I'm heading into the final year of my Bachelors. I'm studying a different area than Psychology. I will have about 45credits in psychology.(1.5yr worth) I'm from Canada, which just means that we have some different rules here, ie we have Masters-level Psychologists in 4 provinces. One of the colleges allows distance degrees. From what I've gathered,many of the clinical and counselling programs at the Masters level in the USA would enable me to register in those provinces. (but they must be programs that prepare someone to provide psychological services and must be clinical,counselling or forensic degrees) It obviously doesn't matter if the Masters leads to a liscense in the US as our system is different.

I'm writing on this forum because I would love to do a Phd but I feel I need to first to a Masters that has a research component so I can apply with that experience. Otherwise, I won't have a chance.

Based on the knowledge you guys have provided, unless I become really desperate, I will not do any online degrees. It restrics me to one province.

However, my CGPA is not great at all, it is below the cutoff. My last two years are lining up to be between 3.2 to 3.4. So, what do you think I should do?

What are some mid level colleges in the USA that I could potentially get in, that maybe only look at last two years, or that will consider a good GRE score, or slightly under 3.0cgpa?

I don't have any research experience as I didn't do an honours degree.

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I am not quite clear what your asking, but if your overall gpa is only slightly below 3.0 (like 2.9 or 2.8) and you do well on the GRE, you would stand a good chance of getting into masters programs on the US.

I got my masters at Mississippi State prior to my ph.d. You may be able to sneak in there.
 
So I'm heading into the final year of my Bachelors. I'm studying a different area than Psychology. I will have about 45credits in psychology.(1.5yr worth) I'm from Canada, which just means that we have some different rules here, ie we have Masters-level Psychologists in 4 provinces. One of the colleges allows distance degrees. From what I've gathered,many of the clinical and counselling programs at the Masters level in the USA would enable me to register in those provinces. (but they must be programs that prepare someone to provide psychological services and must be clinical,counselling or forensic degrees) It obviously doesn't matter if the Masters leads to a liscense in the US as our system is different.

I'm writing on this forum because I would love to do a Phd but I feel I need to first to a Masters that has a research component so I can apply with that experience. Otherwise, I won't have a chance.

Based on the knowledge you guys have provided, unless I become really desperate, I will not do any online degrees. It restrics me to one province.

However, my CGPA is not great at all, it is below the cutoff. My last two years are lining up to be between 3.2 to 3.4. So, what do you think I should do?

What are some mid level colleges in the USA that I could potentially get in, that maybe only look at last two years, or that will consider a good GRE score, or slightly under 3.0cgpa?

I don't have any research experience as I didn't do an honours degree.

Hey now, an American masters, that's an idea.. (I am also Canadian, similar situation). One thing though -- my understanding is that many, if not most Canadian PhD programs basically assume their Masters-level students are the ones who'll be taking up the PhD slots; they won't take MA applicants who don't intend to progress to the PhD. Once they get the MA, they have to formally apply to the PhD, but as long as their grades meet the cutoff & they're generally in the good books, it's taken for granted. So, I am not sure how many Clinical PhD programs take students with MAs from external universities; it's worth checking their sites.

I have a feeling the CPA-accredited Counselling Psych PhDs might take more movement, because people often work with the MA Counselling for a bit, and then decide to upgrade.

How are you thinking of funding this? OSAP might cover up to $9k (not sure about other provinces), but I think it's down to loans otherwise, and US tuition is ridiculous for internationals. (I guess there are scholarships, but many are merit-based. No offence, again, am in the same boat. Always worth a try, though.)

All that said, it's an interesting workaround, and I'm also going to look into it.
 
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I am not quite clear what your asking, but if your overall gpa is only slightly below 3.0 (like 2.9 or 2.8) and you do well on the GRE, you would stand a good chance of getting into masters programs on the US.

I got my masters at Mississippi State prior to my ph.d. You may be able to sneak in there.

All I'm saying is I don't have a psychology bachelors and the research experience (that would come with an honours degree in psychology) Nor do I have a high enough gpa to get into Phd programs. Here, you generally need a gpa of 3.7 or higher to have a chance at these programs. Here, getting into Phd psychology programs, especially Clinical programs, is harder than getting into medical school.

So my plan is to get into a Masters program, get some research experience, get good marks, so I have a shot at a Phd program. So I'm simply asking what US schools I can get into with that cgpa,(it should be 2.8or so) or what schools might consider only the last two years gpa, (since it should be at least 3.3 for last 2) or which schools might look into other factors that might give me an edge in being admitted. (like high gre score)
 
All I'm saying is I don't have a psychology bachelors and the research experience (that would come with an honours degree in psychology) Nor do I have a high enough gpa to get into Phd programs. Here, you generally need a gpa of 3.7 or higher to have a chance at these programs. Here, getting into Phd psychology programs, especially Clinical programs, is harder than getting into medical school.

So my plan is to get into a Masters program, get some research experience, get good marks, so I have a shot at a Phd program. So I'm simply asking what US schools I can get into with that cgpa,(it should be 2.8or so) or what schools might consider only the last two years gpa, (since it should be at least 3.3 for last 2) or which schools might look into other factors that might give me an edge in being admitted. (like high gre score)

You're just going to have to apply to as many master's programs as possible to play a numbers game. Nobody on here is going to know the exact GPA cutoffs for every master's program. Find ones that will be good fits, write convincing SOPs, and apply to as many as possible. You can also usually find the average stats of accepted students on program's websites. Sorry, but nobody can do this part for you- it takes lots of searching and time.
 
I have read that on some University websites but if they really want to keep the students why not just have a combined program? (ie University of Ottawa, University of Windsor)

My understanding is that most schools don't force anyone into a Phd program. (I would think that is especially true in the provinces that have Masters-Level psychologists) But these Universities do tend to have different tracks. They provide terminal Masters degreesand then they have ones which are research heavy (you often need a psychology degree and an honours one to get admitted).

Tutition is crazy down there and yes I'm thinking of a combination of OSAP/loans.





Hey now, an American masters, that's an idea.. (I am also Canadian, similar situation). One thing though -- my understanding is that many, if not most Canadian PhD programs basically assume their Masters-level students are the ones who'll be taking up the PhD slots; they won't take MA applicants who don't intend to progress to the PhD. Once they get the MA, they have to formally apply to the PhD, but as long as their grades meet the cutoff & they're generally in the good books, it's taken for granted. So, I am not sure how many Clinical PhD programs take students with MAs from external universities; it's worth checking their sites.

I have a feeling the CPA-accredited Counselling Psych PhDs might take more movement, because people often work with the MA Counselling for a bit, and then decide to upgrade.

How are you thinking of funding this? OSAP might cover up to $9k (not sure about other provinces), but I think it's down to loans otherwise, and US tuition is ridiculous for internationals. (I guess there are scholarships, but many are merit-based. No offence, again, am in the same boat. Always worth a try, though.)

All that said, it's an interesting workaround, and I'm also going to look into it.
 
You're just going to have to apply to as many master's programs as possible to play a numbers game. Nobody on here is going to know the exact GPA cutoffs for every master's program. Find ones that will be good fits, write convincing SOPs, and apply to as many as possible. You can also usually find the average stats of accepted students on program's websites. Sorry, but nobody can do this part for you- it takes lots of searching and time.

I am definetley doing the research as well. (i have found some potential colleges) But I do know some people here have personal experience getting into certain schools with lower gpa's.
 
I am not quite clear what your asking, but if your overall gpa is only slightly below 3.0 (like 2.9 or 2.8) and you do well on the GRE, you would stand a good chance of getting into masters programs on the US.

I got my masters at Mississippi State prior to my ph.d. You may be able to sneak in there.

Did you get that Masters in this century though? ;)
 
I have read that on some University websites but if they really want to keep the students why not just have a combined program? (ie University of Ottawa, University of Windsor)

My understanding is that most schools don't force anyone into a Phd program. (I would think that is especially true in the provinces that have Masters-Level psychologists) But these Universities do tend to have different tracks. They provide terminal Masters degreesand then they have ones which are research heavy (you often need a psychology degree and an honours one to get admitted).

Tutition is crazy down there and yes I'm thinking of a combination of OSAP/loans.

Ha, wish I could give you a reasonable answer, but I don't think there is one. Even some of my profs think the system for clin psych in ON is ridiculous (where, as you probably know, it's 2 years MA, + 4-5 years PhD, + 1 year internship if everything goes according to plan [and that rarely happens].) MA-level psychological associates in ON can work, that's true, but they need 5 years' supervision to register (as associates, & they don't do assessment afaik). So I don't think it's that people are being forced into the PhD, necessarily.

Some of the ON programs are making mention of their MA-level programs meeting licensure requirements, but then emphasize that they're still conceived as feeders to the PhD. The fact that the APA stopped accrediting Canadian programs, I think, means CPA-accredited programs are likely to stick with the current model, because in addition to being longer it's generally more rigorous than what's demanded by the APA (I am given to understand). (Because they are wanting Canadian grads to still be competitive for internships all over North America, and losing APA cred makes that harder. Quality control. Or whatever.)

It's true, SK & AB, and I guess the territories do let people with MAs register & work as psychologists, but I would not expect that to continue for very much longer. Personally, I'm hoping to join the long tradition of heading west. At least that way, I'd be guaranteed some kind of licensable occupation for a few years.
 
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Ha, wish I could give you a reasonable answer, but I don't think there is one. Even some of my profs think the system for clin psych in ON is ridiculous (where, as you probably know, it's 2 years MA, + 4-5 years PhD, + 1 year internship if everything goes according to plan [and that rarely happens].) MA-level psychological associates in ON can work, that's true, but they need 5 years' supervision to register (as associates, no assessment afaik). So I don't think it's that people are being forced into the PhD, necessarily.

Some of the ON programs are making mention of their MA-level programs meeting licensure requirements, but then emphasize that they're still conceived as feeders to the PhD. The fact that the APA stopped accrediting Canadian programs, I think, means CPA-accredited programs are likely to stick with the current model, because in addition to being longer it's generally more rigorous than APA programs (I am given to understand). (Because they are wanting Canadian grads to still be competitive for internships all over North America, and losing APA cred makes that harder. Quality control. Or whatever.)

It's true, SK & AB, and I guess the territories do let people with MAs register & work as psychologists, but I would not expect that to continue for very much longer. Personally, I'm hoping to join the long tradition of heading west. At least that way, I'd be guaranteed some kind of licensable occupation for a few years.

Psychological Associates are being phased out in Ontario. Very soon you won't be able to register as one. (this is from a few psychologists I've talked to)

Alberta, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and I think Nunavut too. (all have Masters-level)

There is discussion in basically all those provinces to phase out the Masters-level but I've talked to those colleges and the understanding is those things take time. Maybe in 10yrs.
 
But these Universities do tend to have different tracks. They provide terminal Masters degreesand then they have ones which are research heavy (you often need a psychology degree and an honours one to get admitted). .

You mean the MEds, that have a practicum instead of a thesis? I think YM definitely V. My sense is that people who go for that kind of thing are teachers, or folks who've worked for years in lower level human services jobs (so have existing connections & good experience), & want a shot at the next rung on the ladder. Or maybe just to move to the ladder to their left. But I don't know. I would ask for placement rates.
 
Psychological Associates are being phased out in Ontario. Very soon you won't be able to register as one. (this is from a few psychologists I've talked to)

Alberta, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and I think Nunavut too. (all have Masters-level)

There is discussion in basically all those provinces to phase out the Masters-level but I've talked to those colleges and the understanding is those things take time. Maybe in 10yrs.

Good point. Everything depends on your timescale, and the risks & costs you can feasibly afford in the short-term, as well.
 
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Ah, you are a young one then.

Do you think there is any advantage to being an international applicant since tuition fees are normally higher for internationals?

This is what missisipi state site says:

* What do successful master's degree applicants look like? Successful applicants tend to have undergraduate GPAs above 3.5 and Verbal + Quantitative scores of higher than 1000. It is important to note, however, that the admission process weighs other variables as well (e.g., letters of recommendation, scholarly and applied experience, etc.). Depending on the overall quality of the application, applicants with lower than typical GPAs and/or GREs sometimes are offered admission and applicants with higher GPAs and/or GREs sometimes do not receive admission offers. In recent years, almost 50% of applicants are offered admission to the program and the majority of those receiving offers decide to enroll in the program. The number of new students joining the program in any given year typically ranges from 8 to 11.

* Provisional Admission - If a student does not meet the GPA (2.75) admission requirements of the program, the student may be admitted provisionally. In that case, the student must attain a 3.00 GPA on the first nine hours of graduate courses at MSU after admission to the graduate program. Transferred and unclassified graduate hours do not apply. If a 3.00 is not achieved, the student may be dismissed from the graduate program.

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Someone suggested an independent study course to get research experience?


If I can get some research experience under my belt and do well on gre, I would think I have a shot.
 
Oh and I don't think anything that is about 30k or lower is all that expensive if it is a good program.(for the 2yrs) It is really all the other expenses that kill you. (living expenses, transporation costs, etc) This takes your bill to over 60k then, closer to 70k. The problem is that it be really tough to work if you are doing a full-time program.
 
Oh and I don't think anything that is about 30k or lower is all that expensive if it is a good program.(for the 2yrs) It is really all the other expenses that kill you. (living expenses, transporation costs, etc) This takes your bill to over 60k then, closer to 70k. The problem is that it be really tough to work if you are doing a full-time program.

Mmm... well, I can't see any bank offering a would-be psych MA the lower-interest student loans they give med/law/MBA students. Credit line, maybe, with good security and a co-signer. I think it's a lot.

Agree, working during the MA would be a bad idea.

edit: Why not do a second BA, this time in Psych, at a Canadian university? You'd still have to do like half a major's worth of psych at the new school, but that might be a good thing -- you could take more specialized courses, transfer into the Honours (if they don't let you into that stream straight away), try to get into a lab, and finish with a strong GPA (because the grades won't carry over to the new degree, just the credits). I know you're saying the debt doesn't scare you, but it'd be a lot cheaper, and as far as I can tell, a strong UG GPA trumps a strong Masters GPA. Obviously they'd still see the other one, but I think focusing & expanding on strengths could potentially be persuasive, with a bit of luck.
 
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...Tutition is crazy down there...

I'm Canadian and I got my degree in the U.S. For a large number of funded PhD programs, you don't really pay the tuition listed on the website--you get a tuition remission and a stipend. (so, maybe an option after you get the masters; getting into a funded PhD with a sub-3.0 gpa is probably a long shot).
 
Canada to Starkville, Mississippi. That should be, um, an interesting adjustment for you. haha.
 
Canada to Starkville, Mississippi. That should be, um, an interesting adjustment for you. haha.

lol yeah, I'd prefer elsewhere, like New York. John Jay has a Masters in Forensic Psychology. One of my psychology professors actually supervised one or two Masters guy from the school and he says its a really impressive program. (he works in a province that has Masters-Level psychologists)
 
lol yeah, I'd prefer elsewhere, like New York. John Jay has a Masters in Forensic Psychology. One of my psychology professors actually supervised one or two Masters guy from the school and he says its a really impressive program. (he works in a province that has Masters-Level psychologists)

I dont understand how people afford to do that.
 
I dont understand how people afford to do that.

I think it works out to about that 30k figure. That is basically the price of going to law school here in Canada. (for 3yrs) If you can actually register as a Psychologist, I think it does make the difference. I'd understand if your prospects were simply to be some form of counsellor.

It will be a combination of govt loans and a loan from the bank. The student debt I wouldn't have to start paying till 6 months after my program is done. (so hopefully I'd be employed) And I would def be working. They do allow you to work on campus. (at any of the campuses which are part of city university)
 
lol yeah, I'd prefer elsewhere, like New York. John Jay has a Masters in Forensic Psychology. One of my psychology professors actually supervised one or two Masters guy from the school and he says its a really impressive program. (he works in a province that has Masters-Level psychologists)

?? Canada has GREAT forensic training, especially UBC/SFU. No reason to go to a US masters for that...
 
?? Canada has GREAT forensic training, especially UBC/SFU. No reason to go to a US masters for that...

I guess you didn't read my initial post?

UBC and Simon Fraser are top schools. There is no way in hell I can get into those programs. I did check Simon Fraser before and obviously they need research experience and I think a Psychology honours degree. If you read my post, I don't have an honours psychology degree.

I think some of you are funny, you make things seem so easy, even when the person is clearly telling you their situation.
 
I guess you didn't read my initial post?

UBC and Simon Fraser are top schools. There is no way in hell I can get into those programs. I did check Simon Fraser before and obviously they need research experience and I think a Psychology honours degree. If you read my post, I don't have an honours psychology degree.

I think some of you are funny, you make things seem so easy, even when the person is clearly telling you their situation.

Chill out.

Not everyone moves immediately from undergrad to grad school. You have many more options than going immediately into a grad program in the U.S. I was pointing out one of them. You didn't say anything about a strong desire for a forensic program in your first post.
 
Chill out.

Not everyone moves immediately from undergrad to grad school. You have many more options than going immediately into a grad program in the U.S. I was pointing out one of them. You didn't say anything about a strong desire for a forensic program in your first post.

I am willing to get into a clinical, counselling, or forensic. Forensic is def aa big interest of mine.

What are those options though?

Is your suggestion to simply try to apply and see what happens with SF and UBC?
 
I didnt realize that was a goal either, If that's case, MSU wouldn't be a good fit, as it very focused on traditional scientist-practitioner clinical training and is often a stepping-stone to ph,d programs. The Mississippi state hospital is down the road in Meridian, MS though, and they would offer some exposure to the forensic application
 
I am willing to get into a clinical, counselling, or forensic. Forensic is def aa big interest of mine.

What are those options though?

Is your suggestion to simply try to apply and see what happens with SF and UBC?

I think he meant getting some experience and applying again after beefing up your CV.
 
Is your suggestion to simply try to apply and see what happens with SF and UBC?

I think you're right that most Canadian school really do want the "hnrs" after your degree to even look at the application, whereas US schools don't. But, if you did research in a related lab, or even at USB/SFU, in psych or crim, for a year, and applied, you might be better off, especially if you can connect with the faculty at those programs (I thought one of your earlier posts said you'd been involved in research for a while, but I see now you meant you'd researched the schools themselves--yeah that is harder position; I'd probably not apply to SFU/UBC without research experience). Good, funded U.S. grad schools are also going to want to see research experience, so whatever gets you that (good masters program or working in a lab for a year or two) would probably help you. Research experience gained through working might allow you to not go into the massive international-student tuition debt a U.S. unfunded masters would bring you (though, forensic work does pay well, so maybe that's not a big concern to you).
 
If I can take an independent study course at my University, is that a way to get some research experience?
 
I think it works out to about that 30k figure. That is basically the price of going to law school here in Canada. (for 3yrs) If you can actually register as a Psychologist, I think it does make the difference. I'd understand if your prospects were simply to be some form of counsellor.

It will be a combination of govt loans and a loan from the bank. The student debt I wouldn't have to start paying till 6 months after my program is done. (so hopefully I'd be employed) And I would def be working. They do allow you to work on campus. (at any of the campuses which are part of city university)

My friend, I think you might be minimizing things a bit here, in your optimism. I know this because you are now comparing one year of tuition to 3 years for law school (and you need $ for two years; like you said above, it'd be closer to 70k). Yeah, you could get an on-campus staff position, but the hourly wage is low -- it might cover your lunches & transport, unless you load up on hours (and then, what about your research & GPA?). Finally, you (and I, and anyone) don't actually know what anyone's prospects are in this economy (in addition to which, unpredictable **** happens to people, all the time, and you are a person).

It's important to be motivated and hopeful -- why bother with anything, otherwise? And you sound jammy (which is good, probably!). You're looking at a lot of angles (great!), and I see you see the big ones, but try not to underestimate the implications of that kind of loan.
 
If I can take an independent study course at my University, is that a way to get some research experience?

Depends on how the school and the instructor do those courses. I did one pre-honors, because my school didn't have an LGBT psych course and I wanted to learn more about that, so I mostly did readings and review papers when I did mine. But I know people for who the independent studies course was a research assignment.
 
My friend, I think you might be minimizing things a bit here, in your optimism. I know this because you are now comparing one year of tuition to 3 years for law school (and you need $ for two years; like you said above, it'd be closer to 70k). Yeah, you could get an on-campus staff position, but the hourly wage is low -- it might cover your lunches & transport, unless you load up on hours (and then, what about your research & GPA?). Finally, you (and I, and anyone) don't actually know what anyone's prospects are in this economy (in addition to which, unpredictable **** happens to people, all the time, and you are a person).

It's important to be motivated and hopeful -- why bother with anything, otherwise? And you sound jammy (which is good, probably!). You're looking at a lot of angles (great!), and I see you see the big ones, but try not to underestimate the implications of that kind of loan.

one year of tuition

The whole program actually.

But absolutley, I realize what you are saying. As I have previously said, there are other options, but those some of those handicap me (distance degrees) or cost more money.(upgrading)

The idea of getting some research experience, volunteer experience, and sticking to Universities that consider last two might be may best option. U of Alberta, Calgary, Lethbridge, U of Victoria. At this point, and especially for my case, upgrading courses wouldn't do much to improve that cgpa.

I do realize I have to improve my overall package but even gaining some research experience and volunteer experience, I'd have to deal with probably a 3.3/3.4 gpa for last two years. (that might not be competitive enough for Canadian schools) cgpa, probably about 2.8/2.9)

So this is where the US option becomes quite appealing. They seem to have some colleges that would get me in with a bit of a lower gpa. They have so many more colleges/Universities, and many of them are really good too.
 
I didnt realize that was a goal either, If that's case, MSU wouldn't be a good fit, as it very focused on traditional scientist-practitioner clinical training and is often a stepping-stone to ph,d programs. The Mississippi state hospital is down the road in Meridian, MS though, and they would offer some exposure to the forensic application

I'd be happy with clinical as well. Counselling is my last choice.

Why isn't the University in Jackson? Why that little town? Why did you go there? (are you from there?)

As long as they have good southern food, i'd be pretty happy. I like small towns actually.
 
I'd be happy with clinical as well. Counselling is my last choice.

Why isn't the University in Jackson? Why that little town? Why did you go there? (are you from there?)

As long as they have good southern food, i'd be pretty happy. I like small towns actually.

Forensic is seen a subdiscipline of clinical

Large, land-grant, universities are generally not in urban areas, for reasons that are quite obvious

No. Research I liked was there (at the time) and it had a good track record of students who went on to Ph,D programs
 
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I've been doing a lot of research and notice that every graduate program in USA always use cgpa for admission. Is it not that common that only last two years are used? Fairly common here.
 
Any thoughts on Western Illinois University?

Texas - San Antonio, also seem to look at last 2.
 
Any thoughts on Western Illinois University?

Texas - San Antonio, also seem to look at last 2.

Oh and any thoughts on City University of Seattle? They have campuses in Canada and offering Counselling Psychology. When I look at their program, it looks better than some of the more well known Canadian Uni's CP programs.
 
I've been doing a lot of research and notice that every graduate program in USA always use cgpa for admission. Is it not that common that only last two years are used? Fairly common here.

I don't know if many programs use the last two years exclusively, but quite a few (most of the ones to which I applied way back when) will have applicants provide it in addition to cumulative GPA and psychology GPA.
 
Mmm... well, I can't see any bank offering a would-be psych MA the lower-interest student loans they give med/law/MBA students. Credit line, maybe, with good security and a co-signer. I think it's a lot.

Just an aside for any Canadian students who skim this thread, RBC (at least in my province) offers a prime+1 line of credit with no co-signer and a minimal background check because Clinical Psychology is considered a professional program for their intents and purposes.

Another thing, Canadian programs do often only accept MA students who intend to go on to a PhD and it's pretty frowned upon (though not unheard of) to end after the Masters, or transfer schools for your PhD (unless you have a specialty switch, e.g. decide after your MA that your heart belongs in child psychology and your program has none of that). It's a very different climate than US programs. Most depts treat their program as an unofficial combined-MA&PhD program and you have to get up pretty early in the morning to try not to be accepted into the phd.
 
There are some MS/MA level programs that offer partial or full funding for students: Towson University and Villanova University. I would take a look at both programs and see what is available. Best of luck

Addition: There are other programs as well, I suggest looking into these programs as well as paid research positions.
 
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