your first job as a DVM

[lailanni]

Perhaps this has already been talked about - if so, could someone please post a link? : )

For the recent grads and 4th years who are heading into the first job as a brand new DVM....

1. How did you find a job opening, and what was the application process?

2. What is your starting salary, and what kind of benefits do you get? (paid vacation, health care, sick days, etc)

3. How long did it take you to find employment?

4. Did you try to get an internship/residency?

5. Are you at a larger clinic, or one with only a handful of doctors?

I'm just curious what life is like on the other side of the tunnel.

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[freyamaxine]

I know its probably very different in Australia. Even though I have only just got into vet school (starting on 3/3) I am already worrying about my future job prospects.

I read on the Melbourne Uni website that the majority of graduates have jobs lined up before they even graduate (or shortly after). The starting salary is on average $36, 000 AUD (~32,000 USD).

I am assuming that alot of the graduates would be head hunted or would met future employers at the university graduate fairs or through the vacation work experience (do you have to do that in America?).

I don't want to live like a student for the rest of my life

 

[birdvet2006]

Perhaps this has already been talked about - if so, could someone please post a link? : )

For the recent grads and 4th years who are heading into the first job as a brand new DVM....

1. How did you find a job opening, and what was the application process?

2. What is your starting salary, and what kind of benefits do you get? (paid vacation, health care, sick days, etc)

3. How long did it take you to find employment?

4. Did you try to get an internship/residency?

5. Are you at a larger clinic, or one with only a handful of doctors?

I'm just curious what life is like on the other side of the tunnel.

This is a weird question because I did an internship.

1. I found the job opening through the match programme (VIRMP.org)

2. My salary was $30,000. I cannot say my current salary (it's not wise to do so). Benefits last year included health insurance, eye and dental insurance. No vacation. Not sure about sick days.

3. I found it within a week after the match was completed.

4. Yes, it was an internship. I also tried to get a residency during my internship, which I did not match to.

5. There were around 20 doctors (including me) at my internship hospital, and we also rotated through two other hospitals (one smaller and one almost as large).

 

[Weazlebub]

I cannot say my current salary (it's not wise to do so)

Why not?

 

[chris03333]

Perhaps this has already been talked about - if so, could someone please post a link? : )

For the recent grads and 4th years who are heading into the first job as a brand new DVM....

1. How did you find a job opening, and what was the application process?

2. What is your starting salary, and what kind of benefits do you get? (paid vacation, health care, sick days, etc)

3. How long did it take you to find employment?

4. Did you try to get an internship/residency?

5. Are you at a larger clinic, or one with only a handful of doctors?

I'm just curious what life is like on the other side of the tunnel.

1. ACLAM website
2. google "NIH postdoc stipend"
3. ~ 2 months
4. Residency (no internship) straight out of school
5. Tons of other DVMs, but not a "clinic"

 

[Weazlebub]

2. google "NIH postdoc stipend"

Why is everyone so chicken to give up #2? It's a fair question. Good information to have. Is there some secret code that it' not to be shared?

I think it's just the man keeping us all down by making us think it's not cool to share salary info.

 

[chris03333]

Why is everyone so chicken to give up #2? It's a fair question. Good information to have. Is there some secret code that it' not to be shared?

I think it's just the man keeping us all down by making us think it's not cool to share salary info.

For me, because I am paid by NIH, salary depends on years experience as a vet. It is relative. Since I also said that I went straight from school to residency that tells you my years= 0, so I did answer the question

If I was an associate in practice I would not tell my salary because that is something between an employer and employee, and I am not exactly the most anonymous poster............

 

[Bill59]

Why is everyone so chicken to give up #2? It's a fair question. Good information to have.

Why is that good information? Other the bulletin board voyeurism, what's the point? If someone is interested in accurate information regarding salaries for new graduates, JAVMA publishes this every year.

BTW, my first job was $30,000 and included license, professional liability and CE. No health or retirement. This was years ago.

 

[lazyjayn]

I'm gonna say #2 is probably good information because most people graduating vet school haven't ever had a *professional* job before- one where money and extras are negotiable. Also- don't the first year records include internships? I imagine that might skew the results a bit, if they do.

After all, if your previous work experience was 4 years as a tech, plus McJob in high school, you wouldn't know what a reasonable benefits package is, or that you can bargain for the things you want most- like if time off is important to you, extra vacation time can sometimes be swapped for a bit of pay.

 

[Bill59]

I'm gonna say #2 is probably good information because most people graduating vet school haven't ever had a *professional* job before- one where money and extras are negotiable. Also- don't the first year records include internships?

Not necessarily. Most DVMs don't do an internship. And the JAVMA surveys separate out the different types of jobs, including advanced training.

 

[Weazlebub]

Why is that good information? Other the bulletin board voyeurism, what's the point? If someone is interested in accurate information regarding salaries for new graduates, JAVMA publishes this every year.

The AVMA publishes averages. I sill like to hear what real people are making in real situations. Interns in general are paid less.. But there are still huge ranges. Other comments about keeping it secret between employer and employee is valid.. The anonymity of the board makes that less of a problem (for those who stay anonymous). I do see strife within a practice when people find out about big differences in salary. Touchy subject but I do think it's good info if you're wiling to share..

P.S. My first job (small animal internship in 1989).. $19,000

 

[hislightrq]

As a final year student I'm currently applying for jobs

1 - I've looked on the AVMA site and put up my resume, registered with some vet recruiting firms, and kept an eye on vetquest's (VIN) listings

2 - I haven't decided on anything yet, but I'll say the salary quotes I'm getting are about $60,000-80,000 depending on location. Some include medical, most cover CE and professional memberships.

3 - Although I haven't accepted any offers it hasn't taken long at all

4 - didn't want an internship/residency

 

[birdvet2006]

Why not?

Because, it specifically says in my employment contract, that I must keep this information confidential.

 

[fetch]

Why is that good information? Other the bulletin board voyeurism, what's the point?

Voyerurism, schmourism. You've forgotten what it's like, haven't you?

I can recall desperately wanting to know what "real life" pay was like. Remember your audience - how many pre-veterinary students even know JAVMA puts out such a survey? I sure didn't.

Nevermind their surveys only go so far, especially when the results from an entire school's graduating class are "lost in the mail". And the printed results certainly don't give you insight into the range that exists within that printed "salary" or benefits packages.

 

[fetch]

For my first job a while ago:

1. How did you find a job opening, and what was the application process?

Rubber to road. I found more jobs through word of mouth and cold-calling (cold-resuming?) than I did on the Internet resources available back then (i.e., VIN, IL, KSU, OSU, state VMAs, AABP, etceteras). I found 15 openings total and did a total of 10 working interviews.

Application process is pretty standard; cover letter and resume. If a clinic wants something different, they'll let you know when you call (assuming you're going off a published job announcement). State and federal jobs are different and deserve their own discussion. Once you've made contact with a prospective employer, a meeting/interview is scheduled. Usually this is the owners chance to show off the facility, meet the staff/other doctors, lunch and discusssion of your and the owners interests/objectives/practice goals and philosophies to see if there's a "match". It should not be a scary experience. If the interest is mutual, a working interview is agreed upon and set up. Personally, it should be no fewer than three full days in clinic; the more the better. If you're lucky/unlucky, your initial meeting IS a working interview. Had that happen a couple times.

2. What is your starting salary, and what kind of benefits do you get? (paid vacation, health care, sick days, etc)

"Mixed" practice - 99.99999% companion animal with equine on emergency. Salaried at 45k. Every other Saturday on, every other week on emergency. 2 weeks (10 days) paid vacation after 6 months, 5 days sick, 1/2 of AVMA basic insurance, 100% of national/state/local association dues, 1/2 emergency fee (poor nego., there), 10 days CE + travel expenses, up to 5k reimbursement for "reasonable" practice related expenses authorized (equipment/supplies - property of the clinic).

3. How long did it take you to find employment?

Once I started to actively search and interview, about three months, including time spent working on cover letter/resume and internet searches. As I mentioned earlier, I interviewed at 10 practices across the state I was in.

4. Did you try to get an internship/residency?

N/A. By the time I graduated I was so sick of academia you couldn't have paid me enough to stay. Of course, now I'm looking at MPH/MVPM and PhD options. Probably wouldn't do a residency at this point but never say never....

5. Are you at a larger clinic, or one with only a handful of doctors?

I was the second doctor at a 2-1/4 doctor practice in a town of about 36,000 with a military base of 3,000 or so nearby and 4 other practices besides the one I worked for in town. Nearest real city (over half mil) was 3.5 hours away.

 

[Penguinofsorts]

1. How did you find a job opening, and what was the application process?

I interviewed at 6 practices, 3 were a coorporation, one a 5 doc practice, one a one doc practice long overdue to have two, and the last (and best) a two doc practice where the 2nd doc had moved away for family reasons. The first 5 openings were found in classifieds I found on the Veterinary Information Network using my free student account, the last (and best), I happened upon. I was frustrated with my recent interviews (all went well but not what I was looking for) and called a friend who had heard of a friend of the family who was a vet and was looking for an associate. So I got his number) as I was driving from my last interview) and called to see if I could schedule an interview. Turned out I was in the area and stopped by that afternoon and was offered a job on the spot. So, basically you should go through the classified, circle jobs with locations and info that appeal to you, apply there, go to interviews (many! get an idea of what's out there), keep your ears open, even apply, send your resume to 'local' clinics (in the area you wish to work), because they may be ready to hire but not have placed an ad yet!

2. What is your starting salary, and what kind of benefits do you get? (paid vacation, health care, sick days, etc)

starting was 60,000 (town of 3000 or so 50 miles from any large city)- that was in 2007 with 2 weeks paid vacation, professional fees paid, an additional 10% of my salary towards a pension and room for negotiation and add ons of benefits at 6 months. 50% on call starting at 6 months (no ER for an hour away), work 3 Sat mornings a month (meaning occasionally get 2 weekends off a month) and get one week-day off a week.

3. How long did it take you to find employment?

Probably started in April or early May, got the job late May

4. Did you try to get an internship/residency?

Heck no!

5. Are you at a larger clinic, or one with only a handful of doctors?

2 vets including me

 

[Bill59]

I can recall desperately wanting to know what "real life" pay was like.

My point was if you want "real life" information -- in other words accurate, useful information -- the better way to get it is from organized surveys published in a scientific journal. Not from random responses on a message board.

Let's say your negotiating your first salary, and you find out your first offer of $47,000 is in the lower 25% for 2006 new graduates in a small animal exclusive practice.

or...

You realize your first offer of $47,000 is the same as some anonymous guy on the internet posted for his first job.

In which case do you have more REAL LIFE information?

And the printed results certainly don't give you insight into the range that exists within that printed "salary" or benefits packages.

They publish the ranges broken in $5K increments correlated to about a dozen different practices (SA, LA, industry, academics, etc.) along with data on additional compensation.

how many pre-veterinary students even know JAVMA puts out such a survey?

All the ones who read my post

 

[alliecat44]

Big thanks to fetch and penguin for the detailed description of what a job hunt is *really* like. I guess it's another argument for saving up your vacation rotations for towards the end of the year! It really helps to know what to expect, especially regarding interviews and such (even though I personally am a long ways off!).

 

[fetch]

And yet I found all that "accurate, useful information" in the JAVMA survey to be wildly inaccurate once I started interviewing and having actual job offers made. Differing opinions. Huh. Go figure.

The most accurate information will come from those veterinarians practicing where you want to practice. Otherwise, comparing oneself to national medians will inevitably make a percentage of the population feel like either they are inadequate or were shafted when really it's because that is all the socioeconomics of the area will support. And for arguments sake, let us assume they are not ignorantly undercharging/undervaluing their services or negatively leveraging themselves, shall we?

If you truthfully think someone is going to make the comparisons you suggest, you're missing the whole point why the questions were asked. It wasn't to gather data on salaries and figure out into what percentile one falls.

 

[Weazlebub]

Because, it specifically says in my employment contract, that I must keep this information confidential.

The man is keeping you down.

Tear up that contract and tell them to try again.

 

[fetch]

Moving on.

For those interested, my second job was with the military. The info is applicable to those not participating in the health professionals scholarship program (not sure how it goes for them):

1. I found the job by knowing there were veterinarians in the Army and talking to those manning the booth at a convention. I didn't know at the time that there were still veterinarians in the USAF as Public Health Officers or in the USPHS. Even working with a dedicated Healthcare Recruiter, they usually know very little about the Veterinary Corps. If you want accurate information/advice, you are better off cold-calling a veterinarian already in the military branch you are interested in. It's easy for me to say, but seriously, don't be shy; I have yet to meet a colleague unwilling to talk to a prospective veterinarian/veterinary student who contacted them.

The recruiter will know enough to walk you through the application process correctly. At the time, it involved a cover letter/resume and autobiography submitted by a cycle deadline (there are several a year). The other part is MEPS. Fun fun. If you're selected you have a couple weeks to make your decision by.

If you have an option, pick any Officer Basic Course other than the summer session.

If you are comissioned into the Reserves first pester until you get your Reserve ID card; you are authorized services. Unless things have changed, you are also entitled to moving expenses to OBC.

2. Pay is a little different in the military because of what is taxable and what is not, what is included and what is not. When they list a blanket salary figure it is including pay, food, housing + expenses, professional pay. There is some variation dependent on where you are/how you're housed. Because there are cost of living increases in pay every year, what I made years ago when I first started isn't relevant.

Standard government bennies - 100% medical/dental, 30 days vacation, sick call as needed, one national CE event and several shorter training/CE things a year, paid VIN account, life insurance, etceteras. No emergency call except for government owned animals (this will change depending on where you're at).

3. I took my own sweet time deciding to join - from the time I first walked into the recruiters office until I took my oath was approximately 13 months.

4. If you stay longer than initial active duty service obligation, unless you state otherwise, it is expected you will apply for and complete a MPH, PhD or residency.

5. In my "free time" I managed two clinics - one limited service and one full. I had a civilian veterinarian running clinics at the limited service site while I ran the full-service site. My "boss" (Branch) was about an hour away. Combined caseload for the two clinics was a light ~3,000 outpatient visits a year.

If anyone has specific questions, always happy to answer. Especially since I noticed there is no "Military Veterinary Medicine" forum here.

 

[lailanni]

Voyerurism, schmourism. You've forgotten what it's like, haven't you?

I can recall desperately wanting to know what "real life" pay was like. Remember your audience - how many pre-veterinary students even know JAVMA puts out such a survey? I sure didn't.

Nevermind their surveys only go so far, especially when the results from an entire school's graduating class are "lost in the mail". And the printed results certainly don't give you insight into the range that exists within that printed "salary" or benefits packages.

Thank you!! You do remember what it's like as a pre-vet

I'm spending all this time and effort just trying to get IN, I don't know about the details of making it out the other end of the tunnel! Thank you all for your responses! It helps a lot to hear stories from people who have gone through it.

Had no idea the JAVMA salary-esque survey existed.....I'd like to look it up. Is it accessible online? Or would I need some kind of fancy pants subscription?

 

[Bill59]

Had no idea the JAVMA salary-esque survey existed.....I'd like to look it up. Is it accessible online? Or would I need some kind of fancy pants subscription?

You can find the citations for the specific articles with PubMed or any other searchable database.

If you're in school, your library may have access to the journals but if not, they should be able to get them through an interlibrary loan.

 

[fetch]

....or you can grab the articles off the AVMA website for them....

lailanni - Unfortunately, the .pdf file sizes AVMA packaged them in exceeds what this forum allows. Email me over on yahoo under dairy_vet and I will send them to you. Be sure to include "SDN" in the Subject line or I may miss/mistake your email as spam in my bulk folder (where it will likely go).

 

[lailanni]

....or you can grab the articles off the AVMA website for them....

lailanni - Unfortunately, the .pdf file sizes AVMA packaged them in exceeds what this forum allows. Email me over on yahoo under dairy_vet and I will send them to you. Be sure to include "SDN" in the Subject line or I may miss/mistake your email as spam in my bulk folder (where it will likely go).

Thanks! I just sent you an e-mail. I really appreciate your help!