Your opinion on tech check tech?

[justjoe]

I'm not a fan since I'm still liable if there's a dispensing error.

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[Sine Cura]

There are techs that don't even how alphabetization works and you think they can do tech check tech?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

If they plan to replace us, I'd rather they skip that and go straight to AI check tech. Tech check tech is one of the dumbest ideas in all of pharmacy. People will die.

 

[zelman]

I think it’s a decent system to make sure the product on the label matches what’s in the bottle. But, it doesn’t do anything else.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I'm not a fan since I'm still liable if there's a dispensing error.

Big fan of this as it will displace another 50,000 pharmacists from their jobs and definitely fan the flame. What pharmacy needs right now is a spark to incite a revolution and this could be one of the keys to achieving that.

 

[gwarm01]

"It's a great way to free up pharmacists for more clinical work!"
or
"How to save millions on payroll."

 

[Litha]

Not sure how it works in other states, but in mine tech-check-tech is only allowed for non-patient medications (ex: checking an Omnicell/Pyxis restock). So I couldn't care less about giving that responsibility to them, I don't want to do it and there is no real liability. There is a second check anyway with the receiving nurse and scan verification.

 

[firework]

If you are only paying someone $12/hour, I wonder whether you can legally hold him liable for someone's life. They can't put him in jail like they could do to a pharmacist. I'm interested to see the public's reaction when someone's killed after tech-check-tech is implemented.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

If you are only paying someone $12/hour, I wonder whether you can legally hold him liable for someone's life. They can't put him in jail like they could do to a pharmacist. I'm interested to see the public's reaction when someone's killed after tech-check-tech is implemented.

I don’t think a tech-check-tech situation in a retail setting will kill anyone. Case in point: to this day, I have not heard of an outpatient dispensing error actually kill anyone. All cases I know of regarding dispensing errors that killed a person occurred in hospitals and they usually involve IV drugs.

 

[firework]

I don’t think a tech-check-tech situation in a retail setting will kill anyone. Case in point: to this day, I have not heard of an outpatient dispensing error actually kill anyone. All cases I know of regarding dispensing errors that killed a person occurred in hospitals and they usually involve IV drugs.

what about causing an ER visit?

 

[Twentytwelve2]

Allowing a high school graduate to final check a medication to an elderly/child? Ask yourself that.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

what about causing an ER visit?

I have no idea. Sounds like a good research project for those PGY-1 community practice residents.

 

[firework]

I have no idea. Sounds like a good research project for those PGY-1 community practice residents.

I've seen more than once that otic drops are dispensed as ophthalmic drops

 

[projektreverb]

I know of a case were someone got quadruple their dose of their maintenance med. That ended up being a hospital visit. Thank god I wasn’t involved in that in any way.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Allowing a high school graduate to final check a medication to an elderly/child? Ask yourself that.

Not only this but piss poorly trained new hires at that...with how much incentive there is for long term work @ chains, this would be a cycle of new techs checking new techs; essentially having blind people checking other blind people. Even if techs are certified, the idiot factor is still very much at play with ALL new hires

 

[rxkrafted]

There are still pharmacist check tech mistakes happening now... why would people think tech check tech would be a good idea?

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

There are still pharmacist check tech mistakes happening now... why would people think tech check tech would be a good idea?

Because you save on a ton of labor costs by not having to hire pharmacists. If lawsuits/adverse events occur then just settle with the patient. Much more cost-effective to pay off a few patients you caused harm to $1-2M each than spending $50M+ each year to employ FTE pharmacists from a P&L standpoint.

 

[farm4real]

Worked with tech-check-tech........ be scared:

not only are the Rphs responsible, the techs
a) don't know the law and dont take the initiative to ask
b) dont care
c) are in a rush and
d) may ignore the Rph orders since "its always been done that way' etc

 

[rxkrafted]

Because you save on a ton of labor costs by not having to hire pharmacists. If lawsuits/adverse events occur then just settle with the patient. Much more cost-effective to pay off a few patients you caused harm to $1-2M each than spending $50M+ each year to employ FTE pharmacists from a P&L standpoint.

that could backfire on the company depending on how serious the adverse event is or if they add up over time and the media gets on it...

 

[grumpyRph]

i don't think it's all that dangerous, but it will be costly, costly in the sense of fixing errors, because i find that the hardest thing for techs is anything math-based. and that's the most common error is labeling the wrong number of packages for say...lovenox injections and insulin pens.

i know this is case by case example, but just last week my tech who's been a tech for over 20 years, she looked at a sildenafil 20mg rx and was shocked and appalled that the directions said "5 pills at once?!?!" and i was like, yeah well, look at how many mg it is versus viagra. but she still couldn't get over the fact that it was 5 pills at once.

totally NOT NOT trying to bash techs for clinical judgement, but they really do have a different mind set...as they should... when coming into work day in and day out.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I don’t think a tech-check-tech situation in a retail setting will kill anyone. Case in point: to this day, I have not heard of an outpatient dispensing error actually kill anyone. All cases I know of regarding dispensing errors that killed a person occurred in hospitals and they usually involve IV drugs.

quick google search

https://www.pharmacytoday.org/article/S1042-0991(17)31791-7/fulltext

yes it can happen

I know of another situation where a RTS bottle had glyburide in it instead of lisinopril - pt went hypoglycemic and died

Tech check Tech is most likely only going to be used the hospital setting in my opinion (refilling pyxis machines where there is a barcode that is doing a double check). As a manager I would love it - I can save $$$, make my bonus bigger, show the C-suite I am saving $$. Few jobs, means lower salaries... As a Rph, I hate it, eliminates more jobs, reduces salaries (supply vs demand)

 

[lane one]

As someone pointed out above, it's mostly being utilized in omnicell/pyxis refills. Like this:

1. Label says "Atorvastatin 40mg, 10 tablets".
2. Tech fills it
3. Another tech confirms that it was filled with "Atorvastatin 40mg, 10 tablets".

If you think that threatens your PharmD you've got bigger problems. A third grader could do it.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I've never liked it, but then I'm a control freak like that. I don't like being legally responsible for something I never actually checked. Realistically, it's been used in hospitals for decades (since I was practicing in early 90's) in Pyxis/Omnicell machines. Because it's been used for so long, I don't view it as a threat, but then I don't see it growing much beyond what it's already grown.

If you are only paying someone $12/hour, I wonder whether you can legally hold him liable for someone's life. They can't put him in jail like they could do to a pharmacist. I'm interested to see the public's reaction when someone's killed after tech-check-tech is implemented.

Of course they could put a technician in jail. The pharmacist wasn't put in jail for misfilling an IV, he was put in jail for "involuntary manslaughter." This criminal charge doesn't depend on one's licensing or professional standing. Now realistically, most prosecutors aren't going to go after technicians (just like most don't go after pharmacists for mistakes), but certainly they could. There is nothing from a legal standpoint that would bar them from charging anyone with "involuntary manslaughter", if they thought the facts warranted it. I recommend that techs involved with tech checking tech, get professional technician insurance.

 

[Dred Pirate]

As someone pointed out above, it's mostly being utilized in omnicell/pyxis refills. Like this:

1. Label says "Atorvastatin 40mg, 10 tablets".
2. Tech fills it
3. Another tech confirms that it was filled with "Atorvastatin 40mg, 10 tablets".

If you think that threatens your PharmD you've got bigger problems. A third grader could do it.

I agree completely- I personally am not threatened - I say it all the time that this part of a pharmacists job can be replaced by a barcode scanner. Where I was going, is that there are people (or part of a person's day) that does this - this would replace them, this would decrease the number of RPh's needed (you can argue that this would be appropriate). This means fewer overall RPh jobs (in a time where our saturation already sucks). Even if I am not replaced, that means fewer jobs, more people applying for jobs like mine, and that would push down everyone's salaries.

 

[mentos]

As someone said earlier, some techs can't even put the bags in the right waiting bin whether by number or letter. Many of them don't put drugs back on the correct shelf either.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I'm not a fan since I'm still liable if there's a dispensing error.

Yeah... thats would a HELL no from me...

 

[txpharmguy]

On product review, I wouldn't have a problem. However, they tech doing the actual checking needs to be some one who's very seasoned and not just a new hire off the street. (Pharmacist would still perform data review/DUR/counsel).

 

[BC_89]

On product review, I wouldn't have a problem. However, they tech doing the actual checking needs to be some one who's very seasoned and not just a new hire off the street. (Pharmacist would still perform data review/DUR/counsel).

Worked at a level 1 trauma VA hospital on the DOD side of the house (military tech). For a short while a few years back tech-check-tech was allowed and I never had any of the people working in my area follow it. The most we ever did was double count our narcotics every morning and evening while I scanned our barcodes of all scheduled meds at the end of the day right before the evening count. I would print the schedule - inventory sheet, sign it, have another tech sign it, put it in the vault in a vanilla folder, then tallied up the count the next morning.

We were even allowed to counsel if it involved OTC meds (rank E-5 and higher) which (again) never happened. I'll stick to ordering, stocking, and filling while being a vault tech in the ER pharmacy. Makes my training new techs easier for the daily schedules and our pharmacists a little less stressed.

 

[MrBonita]

I have worked at closed door pharmacies, independent pharmacies, chain pharmacies, and mail order pharmacies.

1. At all my jobs I always caught at least a minimum of 1 to 2 errors by technicians a day on a 8 hour shift.
2. Some days, I can get as many as a dozen errors by technicians.
3. Some of the errors are small like, I get a script from a month ago but they type it as today. Or they give out extra tablets or give out an extra box or forget to put the correct expiration on bottles. Or simple typing errors, bid is tid by mistake.
4. Or I get a serious error such as wrong drug typed( ie, Trazadone for tramadol) or phenobarbital 64.8mg gets mixed with 97.2mg because the bottles look the same. Or controls that are suppose to be double counted is way off.
5. Bottom line, I take my job serious and catch all mistakes and I am not afraid to confront those who do not. It takes some great effort to pass a board exam which displays hard work ethic.

Can this QA and high performance be upheld by tech check tech at minimum wage?

 

[confettiflyer]

Been living with TCT inpatient since I started practicing, no major issues. BUT....the drug is barcode checked coming in from the distributor and going into our high density storage, out of our high density storage, into the ADC, and at the point of administration bedside.

Frees me up to do other things when I’m “slumming in central” (phrase taken from unknown SDN member some years ago).