Your view on NPs

[poshdoctor]

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As my signature points out, my career choice preferences are medicine first and foremost 😍, then dentistry, then optometry, then NP, and of course if none of these health careers work out I will have to become a stripper

However, I have noticed that on SDN there is a great deal of animosity towards NPs. I read a lot of negative comments about NPs and PAs and especially about the DNP (which personally I would never pursue) It almost seems like majority of the pre-meds, med students, and residents are annoyed with mid-level professionals. Is this true??

 

[crmellon]

As my signature points out, my career choice preferences are medicine first and foremost 😍, then dentistry, then optometry, then NP, and of course if none of these health careers work out I will have to become a stripper

However, I have noticed that on SDN there is a great deal of animosity towards NPs. I read a lot of negative comments about NPs and PAs and especially about the DNP (which personally I would never pursue) It almost seems like majority of the pre-meds, med students, and residents are annoyed with mid-level professionals. Is this true??

I don't think so. It's reprehension over the fact some claim to have the same training and abilities as someone with a medical degree. Which is just not true. NPs and PAs are a necessary and great part of medicine, their role is just specific and serves as an adjunct to an Attending Physician.

 

[CeeEstee0]

inb4sh*tstorm

Most of the 'animosity' towards mid-levels stems from the fact that they encroach upon some PCP's jobs, and tend to want autonomy (No physician supervision) with half the training. Also, some present themselves as better trained than MD/DO's. That makes doctors mad, and rightly so.

 

[link2swim06]

I dont think NPs and PAs have even close to equivalent training.

PAs are taught on the physician model, which makes them better trained for diagnosis.

NPs are taught on the nursing model, which makes them better for providing nursing care to their patients.

Mathematically we will not have enough MDs for the incoming patient volumes, if we are going to replace physicians with anybody it should be PAs not NPs. Any care is better than no care, we should expand the number of PAs before NPs.

That being said, the majority of PAs/NPs do an excellent job and are required to handle the number of patients in the future.

 

[poshdoctor]

I don't think so. It's reprehension over the fact some claim to have the same training and abilities as someone with a medical degree. Which is just not true. NPs and PAs are a necessary and great part of medicine, their role is just specific and serves as an adjunct to an Attending Physician.

Yeah I agree and I think that who is complaing because they think that someone with a MSN or DNP for that matter is going to take over family practice or pediatrics needs to realize that NP are still nurses. I am considering NP because I want to start a family, it's less schooling and still decent pay, and some nurses are some of the sweetest people on earth (some nurses) I definitly don't think its a alternative to medical school or a backdoor way to becoming a dr.

 

[CeeEstee0]

Yeah I agree and I think that who is complaing because they think that someone with a MSN or DNP for that matter is going to take over family practice or pediatrics needs to realize that NP are still nurses. I am considering NP because I want to start a family, it's less schooling and still decent pay, and some nurses are some of the sweetest people on earth (some nurses) I definitly don't think its a alternative to medical school or a backdoor way to becoming a dr.

Then it could be a great option for you. If I were you though, I would continue to look into Optometry. They have been granted (in some states) surgery rights, and it looks like their scope of practice will only continue to expand. Beware the wrath of the Ophthalmologists though.

 

[poshdoctor]

I dont think NPs and PAs have even close to equivalent training.

PAs are taught on the physician model, which makes them better trained for diagnosis.

NPs are taught on the nursing model, which makes them better for providing nursing care to their patients.

Mathematically we will not have enough MDs for the incoming patient volumes, if we are going to replace physicians with anybody it should be PAs not NPs. Any care is better than no care, we should expand the number of PAs before NPs.

That being said, the majority of PAs/NPs do an excellent job and are required to handle the number of patients in the future.

Interesting...I think I need to do more research on PA programs, salary, different specialties, etc. I'm only familiar with the Yale PA Program because they came to my school looking for URM applicants.

In fact my PCP is a PA....her personality is a bit dull and dry I don't know how much she enjoys her job....

 

[deleted393595]

As my signature points out, my career choice preferences are medicine first and foremost 😍, then dentistry, then optometry, then NP, and of course if none of these health careers work out I will have to become a stripper

However, I have noticed that on SDN there is a great deal of animosity towards NPs. I read a lot of negative comments about NPs and PAs and especially about the DNP (which personally I would never pursue) It almost seems like majority of the pre-meds, med students, and residents are annoyed with mid-level professionals. Is this true??

They have an important role in the health care delivery system, but a physician should be handling more complicated cases. NP != MD/DO

 

[poshdoctor]

Then it could be a great option for you. If I were you though, I would continue to look into Optometry. They have been granted (in some states) surgery rights, and it looks like their scope of practice will only continue to expand. Beware the wrath of the Ophthalmologists though.

Yeah I am still considering Optometry. I don't know how fascinating glasses can be, but I am going to Southern California College of Optometry's open house saturday after next. So we'll see 🙂

 

[tantacles]

NP's are awesome. I have no categorical problem with their being autonomous. Nurses already do 3/4 of the work in the hospital. They want to take on more? Be my guest! It's not as if they'll be taking any of MY patient population away.

 

[Temperature101]

inb4sh*tstorm

Most of the 'animosity' towards mid-levels stems from the fact that they encroach upon some PCP's jobs, and tend to want autonomy (No physician supervision) with half the training. Also, some present themselves as better trained than MD/DO's. That makes doctors mad, and rightly so.

http://nursing.fau.edu/index.php?main=2&nav=609
If you consider all these bogus nursing theory classes as half of the physician training; therefore, physician training is not that good then. They dont even have to take all the hard science classes that premed and pre PA have to take. I know somebody who is an NP and all she took was water-down Anatomy and Physiology I and II, and an introductory chemistry in high school.

 

[Morsetlis]

http://nursing.fau.edu/index.php?main=2&nav=609
If you consider all these bogus nursing theory classes as half of the physician training; therefore, physician training is not that good then. They dont even have to take all the hard science classes that premed and pre PA have to take. I know somebody who is an NP and all she took was water-down Anatomy and Physiology I and II, and an introductory chemistry in high school.

And you don't think she learned anything about patient care in nursing school?

-_-

 

[Temperature101]

And you don't think she learned anything about patient care in nursing school?

-_-

She learned nursing care but she does not have the training of a PCP (DO/MD) as she always seems to think.

 

[poshdoctor]

As my do my research on NPs I honestly don't even understand the purpose of the DNP degree.

I would just get an MSN and become a NP if Medical School doesn't work out......

But hopefully Med School DOES work out and I won't even have to worry about nursing 😛

 

[sylvanthus]

NP's are awesome. I have no categorical problem with their being autonomous. Nurses already do 3/4 of the work in the hospital. They want to take on more? Be my guest! It's not as if they'll be taking any of MY patient population away.

Don't be so sure about that. They already have derm "residencies" that last a whopping 3-6 months. It is this apathy that is allowing NPs to snatch up more and more responsibility and increase their scope. It is just a matter of time before we have nurse first assists saying they have seen and assisted with 100s of cholecystectomies, why can't they perform surgery also? It is a very slippery slope, especially with their strong lobby.

 

[crmellon]

Don't be so sure about that. They already have derm "residencies" that last a whopping 3-6 months. It is this apathy that is allowing NPs to snatch up more and more responsibility and increase their scope. It is just a matter of time before we have nurse first assists saying they have seen and assisted with 100s of cholecystectomies, why can't they perform surgery also? It is a very slippery slope, especially with their strong lobby.

I agree, and I think a huge part of their lobby is this ethos based "blue-collar" depiction that goes along with Nurses and Nursing Unions.

 

[tantacles]

Don't be so sure about that. They already have derm "residencies" that last a whopping 3-6 months. It is this apathy that is allowing NPs to snatch up more and more responsibility and increase their scope. It is just a matter of time before we have nurse first assists saying they have seen and assisted with 100s of cholecystectomies, why can't they perform surgery also? It is a very slippery slope, especially with their strong lobby.

Fantastic! This would decrease the cost of health care in the United States, wouldn't it?

 

[TexasPhysician]

There are well trained NP/PA's, and there are also DNP degrees that some nurses can get online.

I prefer PA's because the degree is earned using the medical model, and PA schools are well organized to a set standard. The nursing standard is not well established if they think you can learn medicine online. I think good mid levels are excellent, but there are many that aren't. If I am going to hire a mid level, I want to know that he/she has excellent training. When the nursing powers that be establish a level of care that may not require any clinical supervision in training, it worries everyone.

While there are PA/NP's that I would hire as they are very intelligent, I have also met NPs that give the field a bad name. The thought that one of those poorly trained NPs could practice independently is just scary and may be a reason some docs are hesitant to accept the degree as worthwhile.

 

[druggeek]

The best DNPs are probably as smart as the low-tier family doctors. I know a large number of nursing students, and lol at the idea of even the smartest one of them diagnosing someone beyond "you have a cold, get some rest."

 

[crmellon]

The best DNPs are probably as smart as the low-tier family doctors. I know a large number of nursing students, and lol at the idea of even the smartest one of them diagnosing someone beyond "you have a cold, get some rest."

I feel like it doesn't have anything to do with how smart someone is. I'm sure there are incredibly intelligent DNPs. It's a matter of training. They might be more intelligent than a "low-tier FP" but they're no where near that practioner when it comes to clinical training.

 

[sylvanthus]

Fantastic! This would decrease the cost of health care in the United States, wouldn't it?

Absolutely not. Salary is a minor component of the overall healthcare cost. Also, NPs are looking to get reimbursed at the same rate as physicians....Furthermore, it has been shown that NPs refer to specialists far more than family med docs do and order more tests. So, it is pretty easy to see that it may actually INCREASE the total cost of healthcare.

 

[SpecterGT260]

mid-level practitioners are great. But they need to operate within their specific scopes. Coloring outside the lines is bad, I don't care how good you think it looks.

It is when they try to claim they are as capable or well trained as physicians that the problem arises. The last thread about this had a series of papers posted by a PA, none of which really had anything to say to discredit my point (which may have actually proven it? Interpretation of facts is a metric for ability....) The schooling is not as intense, the training not as thorough. That is simply the end of the discussion. The utter absurdity of claiming that PA training is harder just makes my skin crawl. yes yes yes... the people who were (on average) unable to get that 30 on the mcat and 3.8 on the GPA... they are much better equipped to hang in a more rigorous program like PA... seriously wtf...

 

[sylvanthus]

mid-level practitioners are great. But they need to operate within their specific scopes. Coloring outside the lines is bad, I don't care how good you think it looks.

It is when they try to claim they are as capable or well trained as physicians that the problem arises. The last thread about this had a series of papers posted by a PA, none of which really had anything to say to discredit my point (which may have actually proven it? Interpretation of facts is a metric for ability....) The schooling is not as intense, the training not as thorough. That is simply the end of the discussion. The utter absurdity of claiming that PA training is harder just makes my skin crawl. yes yes yes... the people who were (on average) unable to get that 30 on the mcat and 3.8 on the GPA... they are much better equipped to hang in a more rigorous program like PA... seriously wtf...

Not quite sure why you are discussing PAs when the thread is about NPs. Furthermore, PAs are not a threat, they are under the board of medicine, NPs are the issue.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Not quite sure why you are discussing PAs when the thread is about NPs. Furthermore, PAs are not a threat, they are under the board of medicine, NPs are the issue.

I will explain....

As my signature points out, my career choice preferences are medicine first and foremost 😍, then dentistry, then optometry, then NP, and of course if none of these health careers work out I will have to become a stripper

However, I have noticed that on SDN there is a great deal of animosity towards NPs. I read a lot of negative comments about NPs and PAs and especially about the DNP (which personally I would never pursue) It almost seems like majority of the pre-meds, med students, and residents are annoyed with mid-level professionals. Is this true??

It was brought up in the OP, and PAs served as a better example for what this guys said:

inb4sh*tstorm

Most of the 'animosity' towards mid-levels stems from the fact that they encroach upon some PCP's jobs, and tend to want autonomy (No physician supervision) with half the training. Also, some present themselves as better trained than MD/DO's. That makes doctors mad, and rightly so.

The topic may read "NP", but it is about mid levels practitioners as a whole. Did you see the thesis statement? I underlined it in the first quote.


I am not hating on PAs or NPs. I quite clearly said in the first statement that they are great. And then I outlined the only potential problem - practicing beyond the specified scope. Mid-level practitioners gain ground because they often come with an air of personability that patients respond positively to. This should not be confused with medical ability. Just because your patient likes you does not make you an effective of "good" doctor. Your patient (most often) is also not a doctor and therefore is unqualified to make such a conclusion.

NP's come with the same concern if they want to practice independently.... honestly, IMO it is more of a concern... as was previously said they are trained on the nursing model of care. Their formal diagnostic training is essentially non-existent. And not everyone that comes in with a fever has a "viral infection.... I will just give you a z-pak and send you home" (quoted for the sake of irony with how often that statement is actually said...) However, I am not aware of a good direct parallel to the "we are as good as them" argument like I have heard with PAs saying that they "do the same thing in less time that doctors do". Yes... this is true in the sense that me running to the bathroom after a burrito is doing the same thing as a marathon runner in boston will this weekend - we are both running.... and I complete my task in less time (only the running part.... complete start to finish is dependent on the burrito type 😕)

 

[sylvanthus]

I will explain....


It was brought up in the OP, and PAs served as a better example for what this guys said:


The topic may read "NP", but it is about mid levels practitioners as a whole. Did you see the thesis statement? I underlined it in the first quote.


I am not hating on PAs or NPs. I quite clearly said in the first statement that they are great. And then I outlined the only potential problem - practicing beyond the specified scope. Mid-level practitioners gain ground because they often come with an air of personability that patients respond positively to. This should not be confused with medical ability. Just because your patient likes you does not make you an effective of "good" doctor. Your patient (most often) is also not a doctor and therefore is unqualified to make such a conclusion.

Aye but the thing is PAs don't generally practice beyond their scope, because the board of medicine/ their physician supervisor determine their scope. NPs have no such oversite. Just think we shouldn't lump PAs in with NPs when there is a vast difference in the way they are governed and practice.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Aye but the thing is PAs don't generally practice beyond their scope, because the board of medicine/ their physician supervisor determine their scope. NPs have no such oversite. Just think we shouldn't lump PAs in with NPs when there is a vast difference in the way they are governed and practice.

that is valid. it came up in the last thread that PA lobbyist groups are looking for a broader scope of practice as well. But Ill give you this one. PAs and NPs should not be grouped together just because of potential overlap of conflict. It does scare me that NPs are internally regulated and passing policy for independent practice based on their understanding. It is a little bit like a body of students setting up their own curriculum before they have even had the classes...

P.S. I edited the last post in case you missed my addition

 

[sylvanthus]

that is valid. it came up in the last thread that PA lobbyist groups are looking for a broader scope of practice as well. But Ill give you this one. PAs and NPs should not be grouped together just because of potential overlap of conflict. It does scare me that NPs are internally regulated and passing policy for independent practice based on their understanding. It is a little bit like a body of students setting up their own curriculum before they have even had the classes...

P.S. I edited the last post in case you missed my addition

Lol kk I agree with what you said for the most part. I am just not too concerned about PAs as they are only a potential threat when NPs have already proven they are a threat.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Lets be clear though.... a threat to the PATIENTS.

we are still in a doctor shortage, and barring *****ic match rankings, none of us should have issues with employment. I doubt any NPs will hurt my business in the future.. in fact, I predict them to help me (someone has to clean up the mess when diagnostics goes bad...). But I am personally willing to take that future financial hit to not have the inevitable statistical deaths on my conscience for supporting NP autonomy.

 

[Temperature101]

The best DNPs are probably as smart as the low-tier family doctors. I know a large number of nursing students, and lol at the idea of even the smartest one of them diagnosing someone beyond "you have a cold, get some rest."

Because you are smart, that does not men you have to do something that you were not trained on. There are a lot of healthcare workers who have the ability to become physician but that does not mean they should be allowed to practice medicine.

 

[tantacles]

Absolutely not. Salary is a minor component of the overall healthcare cost. Also, NPs are looking to get reimbursed at the same rate as physicians....Furthermore, it has been shown that NPs refer to specialists far more than family med docs do and order more tests. So, it is pretty easy to see that it may actually INCREASE the total cost of healthcare.

What NPs seek in terms of compensation and what they actually will get are two different things. I don't see NPs pulling down nearly as much as docs do now.

And at specific hospitals, it may make a significant difference.

 

[SpecterGT260]

What NPs seek in terms of compensation and what they actually will get are two different things. I don't see NPs pulling down nearly as much as docs do now.

And at specific hospitals, it may make a significant difference.

No. If physician compensation is not a major player in the %gdp spent on healthcare then replacing it w something smaller will also not have an effect.

Cite these specific hospitals please

 

[sylvanthus]

What NPs seek in terms of compensation and what they actually will get are two different things. I don't see NPs pulling down nearly as much as docs do now.

And at specific hospitals, it may make a significant difference.

I think you are missing the point. Salary is a very small portion of overall healthcare costs.

 

[gettheleadout]

If a nurse wants to operate as a licensed physician's equal he/she should be, at minimum, held to the same standards for licensing as an MD/DO. In my opinion the very minimum necessary to support a claim of equivalence should be successful completion of all steps of the USMLE. If nurse/NP/DNP training, at any given level, is "equivalent" to that of a physician, these professionals should have no more difficulty than an MD/DO passing the licensing exams.

However, when this has been tried the nurses have come up more than a little short...

See Taurus' signature.

 

[theseeker4]

If a nurse wants to operate as a licensed physician's equal he/she should be, at minimum, held to the same standards for licensing as an MD/DO. In my opinion the very minimum necessary to support a claim of equivalence should be successful completion of all steps of the USMLE. If nurse/NP/DNP training, at any given level, is "equivalent" to that of a physician, these professionals should have no more difficulty than an MD/DO passing the licensing exams.

However, when this has been tried the nurses have come up more than a little short...

See Taurus' signature.

Even the USMLE isn't enough. Physicians can't realistically practice these days without completing a full residency program in their specialty. Even if a DNP passed all steps of the USMLE, they shouldn't have the ability to practice as an independent physician unless they complete a residency that is demonstrably equivalent to MD/DO residencies.

If someone wants to be a physician, they need to go to med school and complete a residency. Otherwise, they need to accept that their career choice does not provide them the ability to be a physician.

 

[crmellon]

Even the USMLE isn't enough. Physicians can't realistically practice these days without completing a full residency program in their specialty. Even if a DNP passed all steps of the USMLE, they shouldn't have the ability to practice as an independent physician unless they complete a residency that is demonstrably equivalent to MD/DO residencies.

If someone wants to be a physician, they need to go to med school and complete a residency. Otherwise, they need to accept that their career choice does not provide them the ability to be a physician.

👍

It seems so common sense and logical, I'm flabbergasted that there is even an opposition to this.

 

[druggeek]

I feel like it doesn't have anything to do with how smart someone is. I'm sure there are incredibly intelligent DNPs. It's a matter of training. They might be more intelligent than a "low-tier FP" but they're no where near that practioner when it comes to clinical training.

yes it makes sense that someone whos smart enough to be a doctor will go into nursing and not aim for medicine... 🙄

but yes training is of course the biggest difference.

 

[Rotors]

I come from a country where Nurse Practitioners are virtually non-existent (about 40) and getting any prescribing rights has been horrendously difficult e.g. a Diabetes NP is not allowed to prescribe ACE Inhibitors and we do not have PA's here nor do we want them.

Generally I do not agree with the model of Noctor but surely in this day and age there has to be a better answer in some situations than employing people who require six years of medical school, two years as a House Surgeon/Senior House Officer then another five to seven years of vocational training to become a Specialist?

 

[crmellon]

yes it makes sense that someone whos smart enough to be a doctor will go into nursing and not aim for medicine... 🙄

but yes training is of course the biggest difference.

Firstly, there is much more to life than how smart you are to do something, or why you chose the path you did. I know of plenty of people that easily could have been competetive for medical candidacy and chose shorter educational routes for a number of different reasons. The assumption that because you're fortunate enough to be going into medicine, you're a god-like intellect amongst "less-intelligent mid-levels" is not a good one to have.

 

[gettheleadout]

Even the USMLE isn't enough. Physicians can't realistically practice these days without completing a full residency program in their specialty. Even if a DNP passed all steps of the USMLE, they shouldn't have the ability to practice as an independent physician unless they complete a residency that is demonstrably equivalent to MD/DO residencies.

If someone wants to be a physician, they need to go to med school and complete a residency. Otherwise, they need to accept that their career choice does not provide them the ability to be a physician.

Oh I agree, I simply specified the USMLE as the minimum for consideration of their education as equivalent (I should have specified education as opposed to training). No doubt a miniscule number of nurses would be able to even do this, as they should not be able to without truly equivalent education (and nursing school =/= medical school.)

In the end nothing can substitute for clinical hours though, and even a nurse who hypothetically passed the entire USMLE and board certification exams for a given specialty would not have a strong case for independent practice simply do to a lack of sufficient practical experience. Furthermore, nurses should be considered to have a grand total of 0 hours of relevant clinical experience when comparing the professions, as nurses have no experience acting as physicians. No doubt the nursing clinical experience nurses have would make them well-prepared to enter medical school and become real physicians, however.

 

[Dranger]

yes it makes sense that someone whos smart enough to be a doctor will go into nursing and not aim for medicine... 🙄

but yes training is of course the biggest difference.

What a completely ignorant statement, how much experience do you really have around health care to be able to make that quip? I've personally met many nursing grads who first majored in BIO and got 30+ on their MCATs but inevitably chose to go nursing because it appealed to them more for a variety of reasons.

Pre-meds on here w/o HC experience commenting on the intelligence and skill set of nurses is laughable when the only real experience they have is reading blogs, coat-tailing a doc around for a few hours and blue-vest volunteering/shuttling wheelchairs around.

I've never met an NP who said they were better diagnosticians than docs. Many NPs work low income clinics and in rural areas where docs refuse to go because the pay is so low (look at independent practice states they are all mostly rural in nature). In addition, NPs can be excellent managers for less complicated but chronic conditions such as HTN, COPD, DM etc.

Yes nursing school does not pale in comparison to med school but the classes taken such as pharmacology, med surgurical, health assessment and pathophysiology make more practical sense than most BIO and Chem classes many pre-meds took for undergrad (Yes I took them too and I know the comparison)...

For the most part the only squabbling about "noctors" in the HC world is limited to this site. When I have told physicians my desire to go to med school (after my BSN), most laughed and said to go NP.

One of the best .mil docs I have met was a prior RN...

 

[druggeek]

What a completely ignorant statement, how much experience do you really have around health care to be able to make that quip? I've personally met many nursing grads who first majored in BIO and got 30+ on their MCATs but inevitably chose to go nursing because it appealed to them more for a variety of reasons.

Pre-meds on here w/o HC experience commenting on the intelligence and skill set of nurses is laughable when the only real experience they have is reading blogs, coat-tailing a doc around for a few hours and blue-vest volunteering/shuttling wheelchairs around.

I've never met an NP who said they were better diagnosticians than docs. Many NPs work low income clinics and in rural areas where docs refuse to go because the pay is so low (look at independent practice states they are all mostly rural in nature). In addition, NPs can be excellent managers for less complicated but chronic conditions such as HTN, COPD, DM etc.

Yes nursing school does not pale in comparison to med school but the classes taken such as pharmacology, med surgurical, health assessment and pathophysiology make more practical sense than most BIO and Chem classes many pre-meds took for undergrad (Yes I took them too and I know the comparison)...

For the most part the only squabbling about "noctors" in the HC world is limited to this site. When I have told physicians my desire to go to med school (after my BSN), most laughed and said to go NP.

One of the best .mil docs I have met was a prior RN...

Get this idealist crap outta here. You're comparing pre meds to RNs, that's plain idiotic.

 

[Praefectus]

I don't understand the animosity either. NPs and PAs want to help patients out too.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I don't understand the animosity either. NPs and PAs want to help patients out too.

If your local mechanic really really wants to help patients too should we give him a prescription pad?

 

[Dranger]

Get this idealist crap outta here. You're comparing pre meds to RNs, that's plain idiotic.

Nice trolling bro. Please enlighten me with all of your health care experience. Oh wait...

I am not comparing anyone just surmising the idiocy of college pre meds coming on here acting like they know about nursing education and health care in general aside from anecdotes.

Anecdotes...ah the perfect forum facts right?

 

[sylvanthus]

Do you realize how many things in your post can be seen as ignorant. Ahhh it amuses me.

What a completely ignorant statement, how much experience do you really have around health care to be able to make that quip? I've personally met many nursing grads who first majored in BIO and got 30+ on their MCATs but inevitably chose to go nursing because it appealed to them more for a variety of reasons.

Pre-meds on here w/o HC experience commenting on the intelligence and skill set of nurses is laughable when the only real experience they have is reading blogs, coat-tailing a doc around for a few hours and blue-vest volunteering/shuttling wheelchairs around.

I've never met an NP who said they were better diagnosticians than docs. Many NPs work low income clinics and in rural areas where docs refuse to go because the pay is so low (look at independent practice states they are all mostly rural in nature). In addition, NPs can be excellent managers for less complicated but chronic conditions such as HTN, COPD, DM etc.

Yes nursing school does not pale in comparison to med school but the classes taken such as pharmacology, med surgurical, health assessment and pathophysiology make more practical sense than most BIO and Chem classes many pre-meds took for undergrad (Yes I took them too and I know the comparison)...

For the most part the only squabbling about "noctors" in the HC world is limited to this site. When I have told physicians my desire to go to med school (after my BSN), most laughed and said to go NP.

One of the best .mil docs I have met was a prior RN...

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I think NPs are great and are nice people too! Plus, not all of the brightest students that want to be involved in healthcare become doctors (i.e. Gaylord Focker).

 

[Dranger]

Do you realize how many things in your post can be seen as ignorant. Ahhh it amuses me.

Please point them out I would love to see what you call ignorant.

1. Calling out people who bash a profession when the basher most likely has no experience in health care is ignorant? I would happily digress that statement if the poster presented some tangible evidence of real life experience besides vounteering or shadowing.

2. My comparison of pre-med and nursing classes (since I am probably one of the few here that has experience with both) is ignorant?

3. The recognition of NPs as ≠ to doctors but understanding their use as mid-PCPs is ignorant?

4. The notion that some docs pushed me to go NP because I had already spent 4-5 years in nursing school is ignorant?

5. Highlighting the shortage of docs filling rural spots and the large % of NP/PAs practicing in less developed areas is ignorant?

I think you just like to troll as much as the other guy

 

[sylvanthus]

Oh it could be your ignorant assumption that premeds on here dont have clinical experience or your ridicously ignorant comment that nursing school does not pale in comparison to medical school. You pick.

 

[Dranger]

Oh it could be your ignorant assumption that premeds on here dont have clinical experience or your ridicously ignorant comment that nursing school does not pale in comparison to medical school. You pick.

Did you not read my comment? I was calling out those who don't have experience in the health care world making judgement about NPs without anything tangible to back it up. Many on here might debate what clinical experience is but I don't consider shadowing or volunteering clinical/patient care experience unlike prior RTs, EMTs, Paramedics, RNs, rads techs etc etc.

I meant pales in comparison (i.e. nursing school isn't even close to med school- although some of the classes will no doubt help in the clinical years) Grammar error on my part.

 

[sylvanthus]

Kk