Your view on NPs

[poshdoctor]

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yes it makes sense that someone whos smart enough to be a doctor will go into nursing and not aim for medicine... 🙄

but yes training is of course the biggest difference.

This........is so invalid.

I am a second year sophomore at a UC and I've been a research assistant since I've been here. So far my science GPA is 3.56 (not the highest but whatever, I did the bio sequence and chemistry sequence during my freshman year), but I still have to take orgo 2 and the physics sequence and I think that I will do very well in those courses and my sGPA will go up. I did pretty good on a practice mcat too. I am "smart enough" to be a doctor.

Medical School is my first choice. The only reason I am considering NP is because its shorter training and still decent pay. I also want to start a family, and I don't want to do it later on in life. I do not consider it to be a back door way to becoming a physician.

If I was a NP, I wouldn't even go into primary care! I have no desire to be a FP if I decide to go to medical school either. It's just not for me.

If I was to go into nursing school it would be for Acute, Critical, or Palliative Care as a Nurse Practitioner.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

What a completely ignorant statement, how much experience do you really have around health care to be able to make that quip? I've personally met many nursing grads who first majored in BIO and got 30+ on their MCATs but inevitably chose to go nursing because it appealed to them more for a variety of reasons.

Pre-meds on here w/o HC experience commenting on the intelligence and skill set of nurses is laughable when the only real experience they have is reading blogs, coat-tailing a doc around for a few hours and blue-vest volunteering/shuttling wheelchairs around.

I've never met an NP who said they were better diagnosticians than docs. Many NPs work low income clinics and in rural areas where docs refuse to go because the pay is so low (look at independent practice states they are all mostly rural in nature). In addition, NPs can be excellent managers for less complicated but chronic conditions such as HTN, COPD, DM etc.

Yes nursing school does not pale in comparison to med school but the classes taken such as pharmacology, med surgurical, health assessment and pathophysiology make more practical sense than most BIO and Chem classes many pre-meds took for undergrad (Yes I took them too and I know the comparison)...

For the most part the only squabbling about "noctors" in the HC world is limited to this site. When I have told physicians my desire to go to med school (after my BSN), most laughed and said to go NP.

One of the best .mil docs I have met was a prior RN...

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/35206/1/5_ftp.pdf

There were 33,094 certified nurse practitioners (active and inactive) in the United States
in 1994. Of the total, 85% (28,142) were located in metropolitan counties and 15% in
non-metropolitan counties (Table 1). A further breakdown based on the urban–rural
continuum showed that only 5.48% of nurse practitioners were located in remote rural
counties (Table 1, fourth column).

Finally, the geographic distributions of nurse practitioners and primary-care physicians were compared within each state. The results (Table 2, seventh column) showed
that nurse practitioners in 40 states were less equitably distributed than primary-care
physicians.

To summarize, nurse practitioners were more concentrated than primary-care physicians at both the national and state levels. At the national level, they were highly
concentrated in the counties with large central cities

Took me about 5 minutes to look this up and copy/paste what I needed to know into here. Try to look up facts to back up your ancedotes before throwing them out so you don't look stupid.

I've also met nursing grads who were dumb as a box of rocks. Who cares? I've also met pre-meds who weren't the brightest bulbs in the box either. The difference is that nursing programs are much less regulated than medical programs. You can have nurses that got their BSN and master's at top universities with great training and nurses that went to podunk community college to get an RN certification and took an online DNP program. They both get registered as NPs.

 

[SpecterGT260]

This........is so invalid.

I am a second year sophomore at a UC and I've been a research assistant since I've been here. So far my science GPA is 3.56 (not the highest but whatever, I did the bio sequence and chemistry sequence during my freshman year), but I still have to take orgo 2 and the physics sequence and I think that I will do very well in those courses and my sGPA will go up. I did pretty good on a practice mcat too. I am "smart enough" to be a doctor.

Medical School is my first choice. The only reason I am considering NP is because its shorter training and still decent pay. I also want to start a family, and I don't want to do it later on in life. I do not consider it to be a back door way to becoming a physician.

If I was a NP, I wouldn't even go into primary care! I have no desire to be a FP if I decide to go to medical school either. It's just not for me.

If I was to go into nursing school it would be for Acute, Critical, or Palliative Care as a Nurse Practitioner.

I agree with you here. Career choice is independent of ability. While they often correlate, there is no rationale for assuming everyone goes into the profession which will be the most intellectually taxing for them. It is entirely possible that extremely intelligent people are in nursing or other lower-tier provider positions. This is why I usually speak in terms of "averages". Dranger's posts would be valid (or at least more so) if we included the phrase "on average" with most of the assertions. The extension, however, to individuals is embarrassingly invalid

Dranger - you are digging a hole here

 

[Dranger]

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/35206/1/5_ftp.pdf



Took me about 5 minutes to look this up and copy/paste what I needed to know into here. Try to look up facts to back up your ancedotes before throwing them out so you don't look stupid.

I've also met nursing grads who were dumb as a box of rocks. Who cares? I've also met pre-meds who weren't the brightest bulbs in the box either. The difference is that nursing programs are much less regulated than medical programs. You can have nurses that got their BSN and master's at top universities with great training and nurses that went to podunk community college to get an RN certification and took an online DNP program. They both get registered as NPs.

A 1997 study, really (and the non-metro chart shows higher values for NPs unless I am reading it wrong)? A quick google search shows multiple qunaititative studies showing results supporting my claim and others against it. I will admit my wording was probably a little misrepresented. I can try and find the study talking about rural states and independent practice rights. The most recent info I can give (not a study) is a seminar I sat with a few contracting agencies talking about how it was hard for them to attract docs to rural health care-anecdotal of course). Nursing masters programs do vary and that is one of my reasons to go the MD rather than NP route.

I don't know what comments you are reading, but I am def not pro-independent NP (hence why I am on this forum as BSN to MD), I just abhor people who blindly bash another profession and its education with only internet dogma or second hand info.

I agree with you here. Career choice is independent of ability. While they often correlate, there is no rationale for assuming everyone goes into the profession which will be the most intellectually taxing for them. It is entirely possible that extremely intelligent people are in nursing or other lower-tier provider positions. This is why I usually speak in terms of "averages". Dranger's posts would be valid (or at least more so) if we included the phrase "on average" with most of the assertions. The extension, however, to individuals is embarrassingly invalid

Dranger - you are digging a hole here

Digging what hole? I mentioned multiple times that I was making assertions about people making comments about other professions when they have no experience in health care. No where did I say ALL pre-meds know nothing of health care as I have met many of my classmates who were prior RTs, paramedics and other allied professionals. It's not a hard notion to understand that I am not referring to everyone rather to a poster (and others like him) who claimed candidly that obviously if you went into nursing you were an idiot and not capable of med school. Yet look he gets no flak....

It's easy for motivated med school hopefuls to get on here and bash other professions often ignoring the fact that health care and medicine are collaborative efforts. Bashing another profession in a work place will get you canned pretty quick, but I guess that's why we have anonymous forums...

 

[SpecterGT260]

"yes it makes sense that someone whos smart enough to be a doctor will go into nursing and not aim for medicine...🙄 "

maybe I took this out of context? My only response is that yes, in fact... It DOES make sense.

 

[OrganicDOc2BE]

With the rights they're getting with watered down versions of medical boards - it's very concerning. The voice of the physicians is too disorganized and weak to put a stop to the strong voice of the nursing board. I wouldn't be surprised if NPs replace primary care docs in the future.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

A 1997 study, really (and the non-metro chart shows higher values for NPs unless I am reading it wrong)? A quick google search shows multiple qunaititative studies showing results supporting my claim and others against it. I will admit my wording was probably a little misrepresented. I can try and find the study talking about rural states and independent practice rights. The most recent info I can give (not a study) is a seminar I sat with a few contracting agencies talking about how it was hard for them to attract docs to rural health care-anecdotal of course). Nursing masters programs do vary and that is one of my reasons to go the MD rather than NP route.

Haha more non-metro by what, 2%? I'll give you that I guess, hardly the influx of NPs into rural areas you made it sound like.

Yeah, really a 1997 study...it's the most recent one that came up. Post the links to the plethora of studies that you're finding. I found one that's in the pipeline to be released in August but no data yet. Found another pediatric one, you have to have access to it though. Not the best paper ever but I'm not really seeing all these papers you're talking about.

Pediatric Nurse Practitioners in the United States: Current Distribution and Recent Trends in Training (Journal of Pediatrics 2010)

States that allow independent practice do not consistently have a higher density of PNPs per child population.

The point is that it's hard to attract ANYONE to rural health care, not just doctors. Nurses don't want to live in the middle of South Dakota any more than physicians do.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I doubt that will happen.

 

[Dranger]

"yes it makes sense that someone whos smart enough to be a doctor will go into nursing and not aim for medicine...🙄 "

maybe I took this out of context? My only response is that yes, in fact... It DOES make sense.

It was an grievously ignorant and misplaced comment aimed nursing being a lesser/watered down version of medicine when nursing isn't medicine at all, it's nursing.

I myself discovered about halfway through nursing school that I was more interested medicine but there were many ( some who were a lot smarter than I) who preferred the nursing care model for their future careers. I am not going to go on about health promotion, education and holistic stuff but that is what they prefer to do and I prefer to follow medicine.

 

[crmellon]

This........is so invalid.

I am a second year sophomore at a UC and I've been a research assistant since I've been here. So far my science GPA is 3.56 (not the highest but whatever, I did the bio sequence and chemistry sequence during my freshman year), but I still have to take orgo 2 and the physics sequence and I think that I will do very well in those courses and my sGPA will go up. I did pretty good on a practice mcat too. I am "smart enough" to be a doctor.

Medical School is my first choice. The only reason I am considering NP is because its shorter training and still decent pay. I also want to start a family, and I don't want to do it later on in life. I do not consider it to be a back door way to becoming a physician.

If I was a NP, I wouldn't even go into primary care! I have no desire to be a FP if I decide to go to medical school either. It's just not for me.

If I was to go into nursing school it would be for Acute, Critical, or Palliative Care as a Nurse Practitioner.

This thread is getting a little too combative for me. I think we should switch gears and talk about your other career options, namely stripping.

 

[Morsetlis]

This thread is getting a little too combative for me. I think we should switch gears and talk about your other career options, namely stripping.

Glucose stripping? 🙂

 

[crmellon]

Glucose stripping? 🙂

Glycolysis/Krebs/Oxidative phosphorylation is so secksie.

Unless we are referencing testing blood sugar =/= sexy.

 

[Praefectus]

If your local mechanic really really wants to help patients too should we give him a prescription pad?

By all means! Put that bad boy in an operating room and he'll fix that leaky valve in no time.

 

[SpecterGT260]

By all means! Put that bad boy in an operating room and he'll fix that leaky valve in no time.

gross

but my point is that "really wanting to help" is not a valid argument to gain more power. Sincerity of intention does not make one skillful.

 

[poshdoctor]

This thread is getting a little too combative for me. I think we should switch gears and talk about your other career options, namely stripping.

oh yes sadly stripping will be my only choice. Gotta put these DDs to work....

 

[poshdoctor]

But in all seriousness, NP sounds like a pretty good career if that is what you're interested in.

Especially if you can land a job and salary like this one at UCLA

Here

I just think that animosity towards mid-levels by md/do is pointless and wasted energy. Mid-levels will always need physicians to guide them......

 

[sylvanthus]

But in all seriousness, NP sounds like a pretty good career if that is what you're interested in.

Especially if you can land a job and salary like this one at UCLA

Here

I just think that animosity towards mid-levels by md/do is pointless and wasted energy. Mid-levels will always need physicians to guide them......

Not when they are claiming independence like NPs, or did you miss the multitude of posts about this? Also DD is nasty no offense.

 

[poshdoctor]

Not when they are claiming independence like NPs, or did you miss the multitude of posts about this? Also DD is nasty no offense.

What I meant was that NPs will never truly get independence because they are nurses. It will never happen and that is what I mean.

And seriously dude ......the DD thing was obviously sarcasm......🙄

Some of my friends and I joke about becoming strippers if we don't make it into our intended careers.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I'm gunna drive an icecream truck when I grow up 🙂

 

[poshdoctor]

I'm gunna drive an icecream truck when I grow up 🙂

I wanna own a candy shoppe!😀

 

[sylvanthus]

What I meant was that NPs will never truly get independence because they are nurses. It will never happen and that is what I mean.

And seriously dude ......the DD thing was obviously sarcasm......🙄

Some of my friends and I joke about becoming strippers if we don't make it into our intended careers.

They already have independence in 28 or so states, how can you be this clueless about a profession you are considering joining?

 

[poshdoctor]

They already have independence in 28 or so states, how can you be this clueless about a profession you are considering joining?

oh...my....gosh....

Well basically it because becoming a NP is my fourth choice of career. I spend most of my time researching what I am seriously considering (medicine and dentistry). Also, they don't have independence in CA, and quite frankly I don't care about other states because I don't plan on living anywhere else.

I didn't start this thread to get advice or information about the NP career.

I also take offense to being called "clueless".

 

[SpecterGT260]

I wanna own a candy shoppe!😀

Shoppe....

 

[poshdoctor]

Shoppe....

Matter of fact I just came back from my school's new student shoppe.

Tomorrow I will go to the coffee shoppe and then to the gas station shoppe to fill up my car. Her name is Lexie. I bought her from the Lexus shoppe.

 

[Thego2guy]

Matter of fact I just came back from my school's new student shoppe.

Tomorrow I will go to the coffee shoppe and then to the gas station shoppe to fill up my car. Her name is Lexie. I bought her from the Lexus shoppe.

Lmao. Got your DD's at a plastic surgery shoppe?

This thread turned from benign, to extremely hostile, to slightly horny, and then back to hostile. Nice. 👍

OP, I think it is totally feasible to have a family when you're in med school/residency. I know plenty of people who do it. I used to mingle a lot with neurosurgeons, so I even knew of a decent amount of people in neurosurgery residencies who have kids. Its tough when you push it to that extreme, but doable. Especially in your situation it should be easier considering your interest. (ie: you would do a Pulmonology/Intensivist residency or something)

What other concrete reasons would you have for going into Nursing besides family and getting into a medical school?

 

[theseeker4]

oh yes sadly stripping will be my only choice. Gotta put these DDs to work....

Pics or it didn't happen 😀

 

[Dr. Ducky]

They already have independence in 28 or so states, how can you be this clueless about a profession you are considering joining?

It's her 4th choice for Pete's sake! Right above her 5th choice janitor at the hospital. Which is right above her 6th choice which is working in the Gift Shoppe! Obviously, OP is trying to shoot for the career with the most authority and go wherever she can succeed regardless of interest.

Medicine=/=Dental=/=Optics Who cares???

 

[SpecterGT260]

It's her 4th choice for Pete's sake! Right above her 5th choice janitor at the hospital. Which is right above her 6th choice which is working in the Gift Shoppe! Obviously, OP is trying to shoot for the career with the most authority and go wherever she can succeed regardless of interest.

Medicine=/=Dental=/=Optics Who cares???

judging by your avatar I trust you know that the gift shop girl is always smokin. No problem there

 

[Dr. Ducky]

judging by your avatar I trust you know that the gift shop girl is always smokin. No problem there

👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

Pics or it didn't happen 😀

I'm glad someone else said it. Lol

 

[Praefectus]

gross

but my point is that "really wanting to help" is not a valid argument to gain more power. Sincerity of intention does not make one skillful.

I guess my sarcasm wasn't more apparent. I do believe that wanting to help doesn't substitute for power over patient decisions, but my overall point was that physicians and future physicians shouldn't be combative towards NPs and PAs. They share the same goal of providing patient care that you also seem to share (for some odd reason). They want to help patients, yet it might be in a different capacity.

 

[LazyElemental]

I guess my sarcasm wasn't more apparent. I do believe that wanting to help doesn't substitute for power over patient decisions, but my overall point was that physicians and future physicians shouldn't be combative towards NPs and PAs. They share the same goal of providing patient care that you also seem to share (for some odd reason). They want to help patients, yet it might be in a different capacity.

I think the crux of the matter is that they're pushing for the ability to help in the SAME capacity.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I guess my sarcasm wasn't more apparent. I do believe that wanting to help doesn't substitute for power over patient decisions, but my overall point was that physicians and future physicians shouldn't be combative towards NPs and PAs. They share the same goal of providing patient care that you also seem to share (for some odd reason). They want to help patients, yet it might be in a different capacity.

your sarcasm was fine 👍 I just wanted to make sure the point didnt get lost amongst shenanigans. It is an all too common argument and I hear it a lot even among class mates. The tone suggests that positive intentions and desire can somehow overcome ineptitude... This is false.