13 Democrat Congressional reps pushing student loan forgiveness owe about $1,500,000

[mentos]

Democrats Pushing College Loan Forgiveness Owe Massive Sums In Student Debt, Records Show

Democratic members of Congress who have urged Biden to forgive student loan debt have reported up to roughly $1.25 million in their own or a spouse's debt.

dailycaller.com

These politicians are in their 40s and make at least 185k. Some are lawyers. They should have no problem paying off their debt. But they want poor people and middle class people to bail them out. Oh and they don't want the forgiveness to be counted as income either. How dare we tax their bailout.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

"Individual debts range from as little as $15,000 to as much as $300,000."

That's a huge range. Spread over "over a dozen" members of Congress (specifically naming 16) plus their spouses it's pretty hard to tell how much they stand to personally gain personally.

"The Biden administration may limit cancellation for people who earned $150,000 in the prior year — or married couples filing jointly who earned less than $300,000 in the prior year — but it remains uncertain how the cancellation plan could be implemented. Members make a base salary of $174,000 per year."

I mean, sure they could be pushing for it out of their own self interest and any sort of conflict of interest is worth exploring. But to imply that they're advocating out of self interest when may not benefit at all?

How many of them support income caps that exclude themselves? Or forgiveness caps that would dramatically reduce that $1.25M headline?

 

[owlegrad]

Shocking. They also have better healthcare than most Americans, better salaries, better retirement benefits, insider trading, etc. Why should this issue be any different? Should we require austerity from politicians?

Since the article makes it a point to emphasize that it’s Democrats in this case would it be fair to ask if Republicans ever advocate for policies that benefit themselves? The answer of course would be yes and it is boring to even discuss this and act like it is a partisan issue.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Democrats Pushing College Loan Forgiveness Owe Massive Sums In Student Debt, Records Show

Democratic members of Congress who have urged Biden to forgive student loan debt have reported up to roughly $1.25 million in their own or a spouse's debt.

dailycaller.com

These politicians are in their 40s and make at least 185k. Some are lawyers. They should have no problem paying off their debt. But they want poor people and middle class people to bail them out. Oh and they don't want the forgiveness to be counted as income either. How dare we tax their bailout.

Does this surprise anybody?

A reasonable compromise could easily be met. Make it means based and payment based. Pay 10% of your income a year for 15 years worth of payments (reasonable pauses allowed for life events, loss of jobs, etc.) or until it is paid off, whichever comes first. After that, the loan is forgiven.

The poor are helped, everyone still has to pay a reasonable amount based on their income, and rich people don't get free money.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So I've read through some financial disclosures they published.

Even more offensive are the investment choices these people make.

Look at Ocasio-Cortez's 401k.

https://disclosures-clerk.house.gov/public_disc/financial-pdfs/2020/10043223.pdf

She only has like 15,000 in it and she's apparently 100% in "Prudential High Yield Z" Online Portfolio Management and Retirement Investing

She's paying 0.63% for a ****ty bond fund that has made nothing. Ever.

Can we get her into a nice S&P 500 fund or something?

------------

Can we make this a thing? Let's each find a congress member and make fun of their ****ty retirement fund investing practices.

 

[confettiflyer]

Does this surprise anybody?

A reasonable compromise could easily be met. Make it means based and payment based. Pay 10% of your income a year for 15 years worth of payments (reasonable pauses allowed for life events, loss of jobs, etc.) or until it is paid off, whichever comes first. After that, the loan is forgiven.

The poor are helped, everyone still has to pay a reasonable amount based on their income, and rich people don't get free money.

That’s already the law, except the window is 20 years (25 if you have graduate loans).

The Trump proposal was 12.5% of income at 15 years.


The first $25k-$35k is exempt depending on family size.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

AOC said the reason why she doesn’t own stocks is because she doesn’t want to be influenced but she doesn’t have a problem with pushing for complete student loan forgiveness.

Own Vanguard total stock market. There, you own them all, can't play favorites.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

That’s already the law, except the window is 20 years (25 if you have graduate loans).

The Trump proposal was 12.5% of income at 15 years.


The first $25k-$35k is exempt depending on family size.

That's reasonable to me.

With exceptions like if you went to a fraudulent university or something, obviously.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

While she drives around in a Tesla and lives in a fancy DC condo. It is all about priorities.

Isn’t AOC white? Didn’t her grandparents come from Spain?

I think she considers herself Puerto Rican.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

She is not the indigenous PR.

From the reading I've done here in the last few minutes it appears that her grandparents are indeed Puerto Rican. Her grandfather actually died during Hurricane Maria.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

So I've read through some financial disclosures they published.

Even more offensive are the investment choices these people make.

Look at Ocasio-Cortez's 401k.

https://disclosures-clerk.house.gov/public_disc/financial-pdfs/2020/10043223.pdf

She only has like 15,000 in it and she's apparently 100% in "Prudential High Yield Z" Online Portfolio Management and Retirement Investing

She's paying 0.63% for a ****ty bond fund that has made nothing. Ever.

Can we get her into a nice S&P 500 fund or something?

------------

Can we make this a thing? Let's each find a congress member and make fun of their ****ty retirement fund investing practices.

Quit picking on AOC. Marco Rubio is the most financially inept member of Congress. It’s the main reason he wasn’t chosen for Vice President. Couldn’t have two on one ticket…

How Marco Rubio Uses His Money Problems Like a Shield | Fortune

Marco Rubio, the 'poorest' of the GOP presidential candidates, has money woes. He says that makes him like millions of Americans.

fortune.com

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Her grandfathers “immigrated” to PR from Spain and colonized it?

What?

 

[confettiflyer]

While she drives around in a Tesla and lives in a fancy DC condo. It is all about priorities.

Isn’t AOC white? Didn’t her grandparents come from Spain?

I don’t knock it. It’s like those republicans that pretend to be like, normal country, salt of the earth folks (like, they wear jeans and cowboy boots in campaign ads), but really they’re 1%ers deep inside their heart of hearts.

Both sides are like this.

And hey, technically, if you own a mutual fund or ETF, you don’t own stocks! Hah! Your proportional voting shares are held by the brokerage anyway. That’s a convenient political answer for the hoi polloi.

 

[confettiflyer]

Her grandfathers “immigrated” to PR from Spain and colonized it?

How…how does one Spanish person colonize a colony that’s already been colonized by the United States?

Like, did he just rip up Guadalupe Hidalgo and go full Don Quixote windmill tilting on us?

 

[lord999]

Because PR was colonized by Spain before the formation of the US? Obviously AOC is not indigenous PR. I don’t know when her family came to PR but her family was originally from Spain. So she is white. No different than someone who immigrated from Spain to the US.

AOC is Caucasian by race and Hispanic by ethnicity. Hispanic is not a race.

 

[confettiflyer]

Because PR was colonized by Spain before the formation of the US? Obviously AOC is not indigenous PR. I don’t know when her family came to PR but her family was originally from Spain. So she is white. No different than someone who immigrated from Spain to the US.

Dude unless AOC’s grandpa was a vampire and 400 years old your whole argument about her grandpa coming over from Spain to colonize makes about as much sense as a bikini in a snowstorm.

 

[Sparda29]

Do I need to explain everything? You got the gist of it

Does that mean my parents are not Pakistani/Indian because my ancestor was one of the Turko-Persian-Mongol who conquered the area?

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Do I need to explain everything? You got the gist of it

Once again I’m asking myself: Why are there only old white men and no students on this forum?

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

I've yet to see the word "pharmacist" or "pharmacy" in a thread created within a pharmacy forum.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

Unless you consider student loan synonymous to pharmacist. That's fair enough.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I mean I think we can all appreciate a relatively positive thread in mutual efforts at criticizing and belittling politicians and their financial “logic” and mishaps

where’s that popcorn eating thing-a-ma-jig?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Once again I’m asking myself: Why are there only old white men and no students on this forum?

Literally the post above this is from a South Asian.

And young people don't use message boards. They are on stupid ass Reddit and TikTok or whatever the hell social media app of the month is in now.

I don't go into Shoney's asking where all the young people are.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Dude unless AOC’s grandpa was a vampire and 400 years old your whole argument about her grandpa coming over from Spain to colonize makes about as much sense as a bikini in a snowstorm.

ok as a vampire, I’m like totally offended by the stereotype of being associated with being old/ancient
I’ll let it slide and look past it because you used “and” as opposed to “or”
(sarcasm)

 

[Dred Pirate]

That's reasonable to me.

With exceptions like if you went to a fraudulent university or something, obviously.

like chapman college of pharmacy?

 

[Dred Pirate]

She is not the indigenous PR.

what do you consider inidgenous PR? The Arawak or Carib? I think there is only a few thousand full blooded Arawak alive today - like the vast majority of PR's are a mix of Spanish, african, and native america.

 

[Sunshine98*]

Not shocked at all. Like I said in the other thread. You know what debt you are taking on. You take out the loans. You are responsible for paying back YOUR loans. Simple as that.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Let’s not be too technical here. AOC is not a “woman of color”. If she takes a dna test, I bet you she has mostly or 100% white Spanish blood.

Elizabeth Warren has a tiny bit of Indian blood. Does this mean she is also a woman of color?

Dude, you're really reaching here.

 

[confettiflyer]

Not shocked at all. Like I said in the other thread. You know what debt you are taking on. You take out the loans. You are responsible for paying back YOUR loans. Simple as that.

I mean…nah. I bought a house, taxpayers subsidize some of the property tax and mortgage interest, and when I eventually sell, those capital gains are exempt to $500k.

Oh, and when I got solar panels, taxpayers paid 30% of it.

When I get my student loans forgiven in 2024 (2023 if the buy-back/hold harmless neg reg is finalized as-is by November), taxpayers will have effectively paid for like $125k of my loan (see detailed post in other thread).

The whole argument about individual borrower responsibility (eg “YOU took out the loan, YOU pay for it”) makes for a great campaign talking point, something easy to type in the comments section of WashPo, but the reality is, taxpayers have been subsidizing things for which there is an effective lobby for a long time.

I wouldn’t call student loan borrowers an “effective lobby,” but it’s a constituency none-the-less.

 

[mentos]

I mean…nah. I bought a house, taxpayers subsidize some of the property tax and mortgage interest, and when I eventually sell, those capital gains are exempt to $500k.

Oh, and when I got solar panels, taxpayers paid 30% of it.

When I get my student loans forgiven in 2024 (2023 if the buy-back/hold harmless neg reg is finalized as-is by November), taxpayers will have effectively paid for like $125k of my loan (see detailed post in other thread).

The whole argument about individual borrower responsibility (eg “YOU took out the loan, YOU pay for it”) makes for a great campaign talking point, something easy to type in the comments section of WashPo, but the reality is, taxpayers have been subsidizing things for which there is an effective lobby for a long time.

I wouldn’t call student loan borrowers an “effective lobby,” but it’s a constituency none-the-less.

Most new homebuyers didn't get to deduct mortgage interest or property tax when they raised the standard deduction.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Let’s not be too technical here. AOC is not a “woman of color”. If she takes a dna test, I bet you she has mostly or 100% white Spanish blood.

Elizabeth Warren has a tiny bit of Indian blood. Does this mean she is also a woman of color?

I am guessing you are an old white guy? at least that is what this post sounds like.
Anybody who grows up with a "Hispanic" name and speaks Spanish and goes to some small town in the middle of BFE is going to be seen as "not one of us" and that is one problem with this country. And I am not even really a fan of her.

 

[confettiflyer]

Why is there even loan forgiveness?

Because it’s been the law since 1995? 2007 for PSLF.

It’s like getting mad your neighbor got forgiveness, except you knew all along this program has existed for the past 27 years, and are now fake Facebook slacktivist mad about it.

 

[Chrish]

I've yet to see the word "pharmacist" or "pharmacy" in a thread created within a pharmacy forum.

Woke culture is now destroying even anonymous internet boards..

 

[owlegrad]

…
Again, why do we even need loan forgiveness when it is already income based? …

My answer would be because education shouldn’t come with a decade+ of financial burden. I also think it’s a bad idea to disincentivize going to college or otherwise make it unobtainable.

Although now that I think about it, I suspect your question was rhetorical.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I love how this conversation comes up every month or so, and we go round and round with the same talking points.
1. Forgive all loans

or

2. you knew what you were doing, pay back your loans

yet we hardly ever talk about fixing the underlying root of the problem

 

[Mad Jack]

Democrats Pushing College Loan Forgiveness Owe Massive Sums In Student Debt, Records Show

Democratic members of Congress who have urged Biden to forgive student loan debt have reported up to roughly $1.25 million in their own or a spouse's debt.

dailycaller.com

These politicians are in their 40s and make at least 185k. Some are lawyers. They should have no problem paying off their debt. But they want poor people and middle class people to bail them out. Oh and they don't want the forgiveness to be counted as income either. How dare we tax their bailout.

That's... Less than 100k per person if we're including spouses. Not exactly some crazy level of debt, and their own debts would be forgiven after 10 years in office anyway. To pretend this is just selfishness is silly. I happen to have 420k in debt and don't support broad debt forgiveness, but if I held the opposite position it wouldn't be because of my own finances

 

[Mad Jack]

I love how this conversation comes up every month or so, and we go round and round with the same talking points.
1. Forgive all loans

or

2. you knew what you were doing, pay back your loans

yet we hardly ever talk about fixing the underlying root of the problem

They need to limit potential debt amounts and force schools to tighten their belts

 

[mentos]

I love how this conversation comes up every month or so, and we go round and round with the same talking points.
1. Forgive all loans

or

2. you knew what you were doing, pay back your loans

yet we hardly ever talk about fixing the underlying root of the problem

We hardly ever talk about giving a refund to those who paid off their loans already.

 

[Sparda29]

It is more like you being responsible and paid off your mortgage in 15 years but then your neighbor unexpectedly got his mortgage forgiven even tho he makes more than you.

Why is there even loan forgiveness? How much you pay is based on your income. If you can afford to pay 10% of your income toward student loan then why should it be forgiven?

I am all for tax deductions like 401 k because it encourages people to save. Student loan forgiveness is the opposite. It encourages people to borrow up the nose regardless of their ability to pay it back or ability to find meaningful work.

Encouraging people to save is not good for the economy. You want to encourage spending, spending, spending. Increase demand for products, more jobs, etc.

 

[owlegrad]

We hardly ever talk about giving a refund to those who paid off their loans already.

This is the very worst argument against loan forgiveness and display of human nature imo. It’s like saying people shouldn’t get healthcare because *I* had to pay for healthcare. Like…yeah, not technically wrong, but you can use that argument against any progress of any kind. Is it unfair that women get to vote now when generations of women couldn’t? Does perpetuating a bad system indefinitely make sense because someone would be the last person screwed under the previous system?

 

[Sparda29]

This is the very worst argument against loan forgiveness and display of human nature imo. It’s like saying people shouldn’t get healthcare because *I* had to pay for healthcare. Like…yeah, not technically wrong, but you can use that argument against any progress of any kind. Is it unfair that women get to vote now when generations of women couldn’t? Does perpetuating a bad system indefinitely make sense because someone would be the last person screwed under the previous system?

A lot of borrowers were fleeced by the schools they went to or had different ideas about what they would be making. People on this forum in 2005-2007 were making in the $60s/hr back then and it actually felt like it would continue into the $80s-100s/hr by 2011-2012 and then continue to grow as time went on. Independent pharmacy was the way to become a millionaire, you could also do compounding and insurance was paying ridiculous profits for them.

Here we are in 2022 and these mofos are paying low $40s in some places. My hospital in NYC pays $70/hr as the max base rate for a staff rph. Most max out around $64/hr and start off at $50/hr.

Taking out 300-400k in student loans seemed fine when you thought you were gonna be making $150-200k starting with a sizeable sign on bonus, company paid BMW, etc and could become a millionaire by becoming an independent owner.

Then you graduate, it takes months to find a job, no sign on bonus, no company paid car. And it's $46/hr.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

They literally already do. Stafford Loan Limits | Office of Financial Aid | Michigan State University

$57.5k undergrad (lifetime)
$138.5k grad (lifetime)
$224k medical school (lifetime)

Forth, limit to how much the Fed will provide in financial aid and loans.

 

[confettiflyer]

The original 2007 PSLF was 15% income for 120 payments. It got much more generous over the years. What is it now? 10%? 8 years? It is not even 10% after all the deductions.

Pre-2007, loan forgiveness was crap. No one was using it.

Again, why do we even need loan forgiveness when it is already income based? If you make nothing then you pay nothing. There is already a safety net.

Biden just wants to give out $10 k in loan forgiveness right before the mid-term election. That is the only reason why he is pushing for it.

I don’t think he’s pushing for it, and I personally don’t think it’ll happen. If you recall, he was sort of pushed to support it during the dem primaries, and it’s like he’s been finding any excuse not to just do it (WH legal drafted a memo last year? No one’s seen it outside DOE?)

We don’t need loan forgiveness (at least I don’t), but they should probably wipe out the virtually uncollectable balances that cost more money to try to claw back. Just cheaper to blanket forgive $10-$20k than means testing/investigating each case.

Back to topic, who even thinks these House bills will pass? They exist just to get people into the news cycle, like the idiots who introduced the bill making loan forgiveness illegal. Like, 0% chance of passing, 100% chance you show up on some Fox News story and remind your base you exist.

 

[mentos]

This is the very worst argument against loan forgiveness and display of human nature imo. It’s like saying people shouldn’t get healthcare because *I* had to pay for healthcare. Like…yeah, not technically wrong, but you can use that argument against any progress of any kind. Is it unfair that women get to vote now when generations of women couldn’t? Does perpetuating a bad system indefinitely make sense because someone would be the last person screwed under the previous system?

That's not the same at all. No one is getting denied access to voting or student loans or education.

If you paid off your house or Bentley or anything that cost 200k, then someone bought a new one and got it forgiven - how is that fair?

 

[owlegrad]

That's not the same at all. No one is getting denied access to voting or student loans or education.

If you paid off your house or Bentley or anything that cost 200k, then someone bought a new one and got it forgiven - how is that fair?

“How is that fair?”

Is it “fair” that education used to be cheap enough to afford with a summer job? What part of life is “fair”? Should we continue to perpetuate a broken system because it would be “unfair” to fix it? Do two wrongs make a right?

 

[mentos]

“How is that fair?”

Is it “fair” that education used to be cheap enough to afford with a summer job? What part of life is “fair”? Should we continue to perpetuate a broken system because it would be “unfair” to fix it? Do two wrongs make a right?

So why not give 200k to everybody then? Just cause I decided to pay off my loans I get nothing? Why not forgive everyone's mortgage?

 

[confettiflyer]

And what is wrong with retroactively refunding people who had paid? If the system is “evil” or “broken” then it makes sense to correct past mistakes since everyone went thru the same system.

You want reparations, eh? I’m open to opening that door.

 

[owlegrad]

So why not give 200k to everybody then? Just cause I decided to pay off my loans I get nothing? Why not forgive everyone's mortgage?

I mean sure, why not?

Perhaps because houses and education are not the same, but then again I am not a policy expert.

Perhaps you can break down for me why it is a good thing to let people go into six figures of debt for an education when it’s cheap or free in any other advanced economy? I presume the answer will be because it wouldn’t be fair to you?

 

[owlegrad]

And what is wrong with retroactively refunding people who had paid? If the system is “evil” or “broken” then it makes sense to correct past mistakes since everyone went thru the same system.

I am certainly not against this at all but I am also ok with simply improving the system moving forward and not worrying about if I personally benefit the most possible from the policy change.

 

[owlegrad]

Other advanced countries limit who can and cannot go to college. Often, it comes down to one standardized exam.

I mean you just mentioned the issue of selling students with 2.0 GPAs on the dream of higher education. So…yeah.

 

[owlegrad]

Too many of these subpar high school graduates will need up dropping out and have to carry around a boatload of debt. It would be better if you limit them from going to a university until they proved that they can handle the workload at a community college.

Great, you just solved the issue of access. Congrats!