2014 Nontrad Applicants' Progress Thread

[milski]

Rejection #7. At least they are consistent.

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[Pose]

Hang in there, Milski. This process is terrible for the psyche. We're all pulling for you.

 

[SN12357]

How do you decide if it's a good idea to preemptively cancel an interview? I have an interview in the middle of the country on Monday. I'm supposed to fly out of Boston on Sunday, and I guess my main options are a)sit tight and pray, b)try and change my flight to Saturday, although it's unclear how much that would help and praying would still be involved or c)cancel the interview...don't really know what the good choice is here.

 

[Pose]

I would call the school and explain that you're expecting bad weather, and see what they offer up. How big of a headache would it be for you to reschedule the interview if the option existed?

 

[SN12357]

I would call the school and explain that you're expecting bad weather, and see what they offer up. How big of a headache would it be for you to reschedule the interview if the option existed?

I called them, they were very nice on the phone and said if I wasn't able to make it out I could reschedule. I'm trying to decide if the outlook looks bad enough that I should just reschedule without waiting another 12-14 hours to see how bad it gets.

I'm lucky enough to not have to be particularly cost-conscious on the interview arrangements so rescheduling wouldn't be *that* big of a headache but I'm sure it would mean pushing the interview to mid January, which is such a long way away...

 

[Amygdarya]

Sorry to hear that milski Hang in there, don't get discouraged. I'm rooting for you!

SN12357, I don't know what I would do in your situation. I'd probably reschedule the interview if it's not too inconvenient.

 

[SN12357]

Sorry to hear that milski Hang in there, don't get discouraged. I'm rooting for you!

SN12357, I don't know what I would do in your situation. I'd probably reschedule the interview if it's not too inconvenient.

They put up a weather alert which meant I could switch my flight to Saturday with no cost...so I did. I figure if I can't get out on Saturday I *definitely* wouldn't have been able to get out Sunday. Here's hoping there are no other mishaps!

 

[Amygdarya]

They put up a weather alert which meant I could switch my flight to Saturday with no cost...so I did. I figure if I can't get out on Saturday I *definitely* wouldn't have been able to get out Sunday. Here's hoping there are no other mishaps!

Oh, it's good that you were able to change your flight without any extra fees. Hope this trip works out just fine for you!

 

[Pose]

I called them, they were very nice on the phone and said if I wasn't able to make it out I could reschedule. I'm trying to decide if the outlook looks bad enough that I should just reschedule without waiting another 12-14 hours to see how bad it gets.

I'm lucky enough to not have to be particularly cost-conscious on the interview arrangements so rescheduling wouldn't be *that* big of a headache but I'm sure it would mean pushing the interview to mid January, which is such a long way away...

Gotcha. Yeah, I'd probably reschedule unless it's a top choice. Or if you're like me (exhausted), I'd just cancel it. I know it's impossible to tell how well you'll love the school, or how much money they might offer you, so take my advice lightly. But I'm starting to feel like interviewing after holding multiple acceptances involves a high opportunity cost, and somewhat of diminishing returns. This also might not apply if you haven't gotten your first acceptance yet.

 

[SN12357]

Gotcha. Yeah, I'd probably reschedule unless it's a top choice. Or if you're like me (exhausted), I'd just cancel it. I know it's impossible to tell how well you'll love the school, or how much money they might offer you, so take my advice lightly. But I'm starting to feel like interviewing after holding multiple acceptances involves a high opportunity cost, and somewhat of diminishing returns. This also might not apply if you haven't gotten your first acceptance yet.

Ha, I just realized in my initial post I neglected to even mention that my main concern was specifically the weather. I probably sounded slightly crazy to people who aren't currently contemplating weather maps to figure out exactly how screwed their weekend plans are.

I definitely agree with you about diminishing returns on interviews...after I came back from my last one I cancelled another after realizing how much the benefit of going on interviews has diminished. But there are some schools you just can't say no to...

 

[Captain Sisko]

Gotcha. Yeah, I'd probably reschedule unless it's a top choice. Or if you're like me (exhausted), I'd just cancel it. I know it's impossible to tell how well you'll love the school, or how much money they might offer you, so take my advice lightly. But I'm starting to feel like interviewing after holding multiple acceptances involves a high opportunity cost, and somewhat of diminishing returns. This also might not apply if you haven't gotten your first acceptance yet.

very nice way to put it. I had a school offer me an interview that just happened to be when I was in the area visiting my mom (an hour drive away). Sure enough I went, wasn't really blown away. It's nice when it works out like that, but sometimes you have to make a call.


In other news, of the 12 schools I've interviewed at I'm still waiting on Pitt and CCLCM to hear back. CC is a likely WL, so I'm at 9-0-2 post-interview. Feeling incredibly fortunate this season- glad to see a lot of other people are doing well, and I hope our luck spreads to people who could use it this December.

 

[Amygdarya]

I could use some luck in January and especially in March

You've done a great job this cycle Sisko!
CCLCM is really hard to get into. I don't mind that I didn't get accepted 'cause I'm not sure it's a good fit for me after all - so I guess the feeling is mutual. But I wish you best of luck in February (if they're done with their December batch).
Hopefully Pitt doesn't put most people on waitlist this year as it used to do when it was rolling.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Hello,
I can't remember if I have posted in here before or if it was some other thread but:

-NonTrad
-Non-URM
-Ivy Undergrad c/o 2010
-transfer from a community college
-All pre-reqs except physics taken at community college.
-3.3science, 3.3cumulative
-2 years full time neuro research after graduation
-currently in final year of a TRADITIONAL masters in physiology (non-SMP)
-3.85 gradGPA
30S MCAT (8 VR, 10 PS, 12 BS)
-1 year part time graduate research in regenerative medicine
lots of shadowing, lots of clinical volunteering

AMCAS verified 6/11
Secondaries to 39 schools all completed by mid-August.

Interview invitation to UMiami on 8/12, and FIU on 8/14 - attended UMiami on 9/20, FIU on 9/24. Interview invitation to Albany Med on 10/29.

Verdict? Accepted to Both.

University of Miami Class of 2018

 

[vegetara83]

Really haven't been following the thread much, but I did get accepted to the one and only school I applied to.

 

[acceptmeplease]

Really haven't been following the thread much, but I did get accepted to the one and only school I applied to.

Congrats! Me too!

 

[DR MOM]

That's awesome, Raine and acceptmeplease! Congrats!

 

[Pose]

Got a really nice call from Georgetown last night, offering me an acceptance. Woo!

 

[Amygdarya]

Congrats Pose! Getting an acceptance is always great, but getting one by phone sure makes it more special.

 

[MamiMD]

Second acceptance came a week after I interviewed there!

Almost takes the sting out of the three waitlists I on, two to top choices

 

[Pose]

Anyone here have thoughts on a P/F grading system vs. a traditional grading/ranking system? I've done a search, and I understand that it probably doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things, but I'm really curious if other non-trads feel that traditional grading would add yet another component of gunnerism/competition/stress?

Yeah, yeah medical school is competitive no matter what. But the things I'd do for a little collegiality moving forward...

 

[SN12357]

Anyone here have thoughts on a P/F grading system vs. a traditional grading/ranking system? I've done a search, and I understand that it probably doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things, but I'm really curious if other non-trads feel that traditional grading would add yet another component of gunnerism/competition/stress?

Yeah, yeah medical school is competitive no matter what. But the things I'd do for a little collegiality moving forward...

All the school are essentially equal in grading third year, so I think I've decided that P/F vs grades in preclinicals is not going to effect my decision with the exception that I will think long and hard before going to a school with a traditional curve. I believe very strongly that curves which dictate what percentage of a class can get a certain grade are bad and pointless. Straight cutoffs are much fairer. I am willing to attend a school with with a curve system but all the other factors would need to line up.

 

[QuantumJ]

Anyone here have thoughts on a P/F grading system vs. a traditional grading/ranking system? I've done a search, and I understand that it probably doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things, but I'm really curious if other non-trads feel that traditional grading would add yet another component of gunnerism/competition/stress?

Yeah, yeah medical school is competitive no matter what. But the things I'd do for a little collegiality moving forward...

The school I interviewed at that was pass/fail mentioned how much this system led to increased cooperation between students. They all seemed to really love it and mentioned to me that it was a nice benefit to know "ok I know enough here to pass this section so I'm going to spend the rest of the week on research or studying this other section I'm not as sure on". Of course you can do this in a regular curriculum too if you just shoot to make 70's so I don't really understand how it makes that much of difference. Every school pushed how their students were collaborative too so I'm not sure. All else being exactly equal I would choose P/F though

 

[NuttyEngDude]

There's a lot to be said for culture and school fit, but all things being equal, non-ranked pass/fail is much better than traditional grading systems.

 

[Amygdarya]

I believe there are 2 kinds of competitiveness that are often confused. The first kind is where a person competes with others for some kind of limited resources and is therefore interested in the others failing; the second kind is where a person wants to do his or her own best, regardless of where he or she stands in relation to others, and is not interested in other people failing.

Curved grading encourages the first kind, and I abhor it. Though, as far as I understand, none of the schools I interviewed at has curved grading; I believe it's becoming a thing of the past.
P/F grading is supposed to encourage cooperativeness, and I believe it does in many cases. However, many of P/F schools rank students internally and report their rankings (quartiles) to residency programs, so even if the school is P/F, it still matters how well you do relative to others. On the other hand, P/F grading without ranking seems kind of unfair to people who push themselves hard to do their best, because they get exactly the same grade as those who studied just enough to pass. In this sense, F/P/HP/H grading may not be so bad after all if - and this is important! - there is no curve and anyone who gets enough points gets the grade.

Of course, what matters in the end in terms of residency applications is step 1 score - which, according to an AECOM study that was posted in the MCAT vs. USMLE thread, best correlates with preclinical grades (i.e. if there are grades; in other words, it best correlates with how hard you studied in your first 2 years - surprise, surprise!).
Most importantly, what *really* matters is what your individual goals are. If you're not aiming for a competitive residency and/or you have to juggle family and school, P/F without ranking is probably your best bet for a culture you want to spend your next 4 years in. If your goal is a very competitive residency, you must be a competitive person (of either kind), and in this case grading doesn't really matter because you will push yourself as hard as you can regardless of the grading scale; chances are, you will go to a school with a competitive culture in the first place, hopefully it's the right kind of competitiveness.

I agree that each school touts the cooperativeness of its students, whether it's true or not Even with P/F grading, cultures of different schools may be very different.
For example, I got very different impressions from two P/F PBL-heavy schools. One of them (Pitt) strongly emphasized its supportive cooperative culture and student ECs (and I actually bought that! ), but some of the students complained that their first year PBL sessions were of very varying quality because, due to the P/F grading, many students just did as little as necessary to pass and gave crappy PBL presentations. (Which does not deter me, Pitt is one of my top choices.) That said, I cannot imagine that Pitt students are not competitive at all, given their USMLE scores and match lists, not to mention what kind of students are selected to the school in the first place.
Case () number two: CCLCM. It famously advertises its P/F grading system as something that takes some pressure off students. But the thing is, it's not the impression I got from visiting the school and some other information I've read here on SDN. In fact, the evaluations and portfolio system looks like something that will put even more pressure than grades, in my opinion. I look at it this way: a grade is a grade; I get 81% on a test and get a B, and this is between my professor and me, unless I share this information with other students or someone uses detective skills to uncover it (which is creepy - and highly unlikely). But with the evaluations and portfolio system, you're *always* under pressure to distinguish yourself from the other students and to be liked for your presentations, your research etc. Moreover, instead of your grades which are collected automatically, you have to record the instances someone (professors, fellow students) complimented you on your performance, your attitude etc. To *me*, having to *always* perform at a high level and *always* be evaluated by *everyone* seems like a tremendous amount of pressure - and I'm actually a competitive person (of the second kind!). Basically, the snippets of vc7777's portfolio that he posted in the Case thread scared the **** out of me, and I'm very grateful he posted that. And I'm really not a slacker, I'm actually quite a workaholic. But I really doubt the school's atmosphere is as noncompetitive as the school presents it. It's a great program in many respects, but I don't think it's the right culture *for me*. But I bet they have awesome PBL presentations because nobody ever gets to slack off under the watchful eyes of fellow students And it's a P/F school as well.

Bottom line: *for my purpose*, grading scale is one of the last things I will consider when selecting a school (if I have a choice at all ), right next to the quality of the school's gym - I know I will have to study my ass off no matter where I go; what matters for me is the clinical/research/global health opportunities the school offers and, to be honest, the totally subjective feeling I got from the school when I visited it.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

I pretty much agree with what Amygdarya said. It shouldn't be high on the list. Though after a painful pre-med process, I can see how it could be.

 

[Amygdarya]

Though after a painful pre-med process, I can see how it could be.

I hear ya, getting high grades while having a full-time job and taking care of the family is no joke.
If it's of any help, as the accepted wisdom goes, preclinical grades hardly matter for residencies, and clinical rotations are graded in the same way at pretty much all the schools I know of except for CCLCM (though, of course, my knowledge is far from being exhaustive). All that matters in preclinical years is step 1, and you'll have to study hard for it no matter what grading scale your school uses.
What matters in terms of student body competitiveness is not the grading scale per se (as long as it's not curved) but the culture of the school (what kind of students are selected, whether faculty and administration are supportive, whether there are enough resources for students - clinical rotation sites, global health travel funding etc. - whether there are any activities that promote camaraderie and cooperation between students etc.), which is difficult for an applicant to gauge. As far as I can see, grading scale (as long as it's not curved) may or may not correlate with competitiveness of the students.

Medical school will be hard, and residency even harder. As one of my good friends wrote congratulating me with being accepted to medical school (his wife is an international medical graduate who went through US residency and fellowship, so he should know something about it): "Come visit us in SF before the hell starts"

 

[MamiMD]

Im really happy p/f is becoming the norm, now that I think about it, I didn't even apply to any non P/F schools.

Imo, anything that takes away the air of competition and stress from med school should be encouraged. You are never ever going to know 100% of medicine and the emphasis should be on learning HOW to learn and digest all the information, how to work together with colleagues and interact with patients.

We will all be in med school, and practicing medicine is not a series of multiple choice exams. We have all proved that we can succeed academically, but at the same time there needs to be some sort of standard.

 

[MamiMD]

On a completely different topic, I just saw the average age for the school I was just admitted to...
eight years younger than me

 

[Pose]

Two more IIs, to Rush and Albany. Will probably attend the Rush interview...I really like Chicago.

 

[AkGrown84]

On a completely different topic, I just saw the average age for the school I was just admitted to...
eight years younger than me

Hahaha! THIS ^^^ is exactly how I felt at virtually every one of my interviews! Thankfully, I look younger than I am, so I can sometimes fit in and not look like the "old lady" on campus.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Dear Application Gods,

Thank you for having mercy on us by letting EVERYONE including adcoms have a holiday break so we dont have to keep checking our e-mails and waiting by the phone with emotions reminiscent of junior high prom dating season.

Love,
NED

 

[Amygdarya]

P. S. - And Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone!

 

[mauberley]

Two more IIs, to Rush and Albany. Will probably attend the Rush interview...I really like Chicago.

It's a pretty cool place. The city, too, I guess. /slightbias

 

[Captain Sisko]

Dear Application Gods,

Thank you for having mercy on us by letting EVERYONE including adcoms have a holiday break so we dont have to keep checking our e-mails and waiting by the phone with emotions reminiscent of junior high prom dating season.

Love,
NED

I got my official cclcm wait list on Christmas day, 3 am. But yeah, otherwise good to take a break from the silliness. Too bad I'm at work...

 

[Amygdarya]

I got my official cclcm wait list on Christmas day, 3 am.

+1
Case and its automatic 3 am emails And, considering that wait list is disappointing news for many, it was not very nice of them to schedule it on Christmas night.
But oh well. I'll probably withdraw from both programs soon; it seems like Case is just stringing me along.
Keeping everything crossed for a couple of other programs.

 

[CajunMedic]

So far I've had 2 interviews: ACOM and LMU-DCOM. Rejected from ACOM and Waitlisted at LMU-DCOM.
Still waiting to hear from WCUCOM, NSUCOM, PCOM-GA, LSU New Orleans, and LSU Shreveport.
Rejected from the other 12 or so post-secondary.

 

[SN12357]

Waitlisted on Christmas day? That is cold. And really unnecessary.

I'm getting antsy waiting to hear from schools. I expect to hear from several in January. So much waiting.

 

[Amygdarya]

And really unnecessary.

This. That automatic email could have been sent any other day. Wait list was exactly the outcome I expected, but the timing was kind of off.

This process has been a real emotional roller coaster for me: first no IIs... then a bunch of IIs from awesome schools... wait list... acceptance... wait list... now what? I'm really afraid to get my hopes up - in fact, I'm rather pessimistic about my chances at the remaining schools at this point, though I really shouldn't complain with an acceptance from a really good school.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Too bad I'm at work...

Enjoy it, and enjoy knowing you will be ending it on your terms. But yeah, I could use a little of my previous salary right now................ if for only a little fun

So far I've had 2 interviews: ACOM and LMU-DCOM. Rejected from ACOM and Waitlisted at LMU-DCOM.
Still waiting to hear from WCUCOM, NSUCOM, PCOM-GA, LSU New Orleans, and LSU Shreveport.
Rejected from the other 12 or so post-secondary.

Good luck CajunMedic! Enjoy this time until it starts up again in Jan!

 

[Amygdarya]

Too bad I'm at work...

Same here. Also trying to resolve an air flight issue for my Mom for the past 4 hours

 

[Captain Sisko]

This. That automatic email could have been sent any other day. Wait list was exactly the outcome I expected, but the timing was kind of off.

This process has been a real emotional roller coaster for me: first no IIs... then a bunch of IIs from awesome school... wait list... acceptance... wait list... now what? I'm really afraid to get my hopes up - in fact, I'm rather pessimistic about my chances at the remaining schools at this point, though I really shouldn't complain with an acceptance from a really good school.

Nah you're fine. You're in somewhere so the real stress is off. It'll most likely work out for you because you seem like a good person and karma happens.

If you're going to withdraw from cc, you should tell Franco it was mean to WL us on xmas day. Kind of like getting a lump of coal in our stockings. Or maybe @vc7777 can, since he's already there...

 

[monkeyfeet]

So far I've had 2 interviews: ACOM and LMU-DCOM. Rejected from ACOM and Waitlisted at LMU-DCOM.
Still waiting to hear from WCUCOM, NSUCOM, PCOM-GA, LSU New Orleans, and LSU Shreveport.
Rejected from the other 12 or so post-secondary.

Good luck, CajunMedic! Totally pulling for ya!

Waitlisted on Christmas day? That is cold. And really unnecessary.

Seriously. I was rejected from Mayo on Thanksgiving... uh, thanks? Christmas is even worse!

 

[Amygdarya]

Nah you're fine. You're in somewhere so the real stress is off. It'll most likely work out for you because you seem like a good person and karma happens.

If you're going to withdraw from cc, you should tell Franco it was mean to WL us on xmas day. Kind of like getting a lump of coal in our stockings. Or maybe @vc7777 can, since he's already there...

Thanks Sisko. Yeah, I'm OK, I guess this flight issue I'm dealing with right now is really affecting my outlook on life
I'll consider telling them about their releasing wait lists on Christmas - though this may sound spiteful coming from a withdrawing applicant.
Which makes me think: we fill out all these interview evaluations - how about giving us an opportunity to evaluate and submit feedback on the application process as a whole? Medical schools must be really afraid of what they may hear

I was rejected from Mayo on Thanksgiving... uh, thanks?

Ouch! Sorry to hear that monkeyfeet.

 

[monkeyfeet]

Ouch! Sorry to hear that monkeyfeet.

Eh, it's all good. I didn't have all their pre-reqs done, anyway... at least now I don't hafta bother taking any more classes...

And I agree with Sisko, you have more good news headed your way...

 

[SN12357]

Got a second waitlist this week. Am trying not to second-guess my interviewing skills but it's hard not to. I am very thankful about my acceptances but these waitlists are making me jittery again. Sigh.

 

[Amygdarya]

Got a second waitlist this week. Am trying not to second-guess my interviewing skills but it's hard not to. I am very thankful about my acceptances but these waitlists are making me jittery again. Sigh.

Unless it's your top choice, you shouldn't probably get very upset about it. Even the most awesome applicants (and I believe you're one of those ) don't get accepted everywhere they interview. So much goes into selecting a class besides the sheer awesomeness of the applicants - there were discussions in this year's Case and Yale application threads about the selection process, and it's pretty darn scary. I mean, scary for the applicants. It does make sense for schools to select diverse classes, but what it means for an applicant, basically, if a school has interviewed someone similar to you (in terms of demographics and background/experiences/hobbies) who they like just a tiny bit more, you're out of luck. And scarier yet, although non-trads tend to believe they are all unique snowflakes (heck, I do, too!), the truth is, there are probably people very similar to us in the application pool and, assuming similar interests and goals (after all, these people are similar to us), chances are, they're are applying to the same schools as we are
So, "it's not you, it's them", i.e. the idiosyncrasies of the selection process. Best of luck with the remaining schools!

Meanwhile, I'm third- and fourth-guessing my interviews at my two top choices, too. At this point I've pretty much reached the conclusion that those were my absolutely worst interviews of the cycle But the truth is: 1) I don't think anyone can judge their own interview performance objectively; and 2) if I get rejected or waitlisted by these schools, chances are, it's not because of my poor interview performance but because of a ton of other reasons, some of which I may not even imagine.

 

[deleted480308]

Got a call this weekend for an interview at my top choice. I was so schocked by it that I actually rechecked my email this morning to ensure it wasn't a dream.

It's humbling and surreal but God is being really nice right now

 

[Pose]

Finally secured a spot in an orgo II class for next semester. Such a relief. I had this thought I might lose my acceptances if I couldn't get into the course anywhere...

Hope my nontrad friends are having a good new year.

 

[MedWonk]

After super serial consideration, I was rejected by Einstein. Totally blindsided and devastated by this. Definitely didn't see it coming so early in the season.

 

[Amygdarya]

After super serial consideration, I was rejected by Einstein. Totally blindsided and devastated by this. Definitely didn't see it coming so early in the season.

Do I detect sarcasm? At this point, I assume silent rejections/don't care about schools I haven't heard from and haven't withdrawn from (yet).
All's well that ends well. You already have an acceptance to a good school and can get more acceptances from the interviews you've already attended - who cares about AECOM, right?