- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
For some reason I thought the multiple acceptance data became available in March, roughly. Thank you @inky for asking this question!
***2015-2016 MD/PhD General Discussion***
- Thread starter BR2016
- Start date
For some reason I thought the multiple acceptance data became available in March, roughly. Thank you @inky for asking this question!
I saw the Feb 10 date in the general MD discussion forum. I believe that only schools that have already accepted you can see your other acceptances. Then in April, all schools have access to the National Acceptance report.
I just confirmed this on the AMCAS website https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/faq/amcas-faq/ under the question "Can schools see the names of or number of other schools that I applied to?"
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I remember "march notion" was part of a much greater colorful fantasy I've created for myself this application cycle (hey-whatever works). Thanks for snapping me back to reality! Good thing is that it's all over soon enough, finally!
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 4,143
It is until Feb. 10th when all MD/PhD directors first become aware of multiple acceptances for their accepted applicants. Later in March, all acceptances for all applicants are available for search on a database.
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
Not that it matters (I'm not sure why one would worry about what PDs can see and when), but as a point of curiosity, do programs have access to multiple acceptances held by only accepted applicants, or both accepted and waitlisted applicants, or...?
Also, based on your clarification, I think I better understand why I had "March" in mind (all applicant acceptances, be they accepted to that specific program or not, are available).
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 4,143
There are several types of reports: School Acceptance report, National Acceptance report, Joint Acceptance report, Acceptance School Alternate List, and others.
The national report for all accepted students comes out on April 1st and lists all acceptances (MD, MD/PhD, etc) across the country. The Joint Acceptance and Acceptances by the alternate list for the school are also released on April 1st.
The national report for all accepted students comes out on April 1st and lists all acceptances (MD, MD/PhD, etc) across the country. The Joint Acceptance and Acceptances by the alternate list for the school are also released on April 1st.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 128
- Reaction score
- 141
@inky also mentioned a specific situation that at least for me is still confusing. Say you're accepted MD-only to school A, because the MD/PhD committee makes their decision later in the cycle. You've also been accepted to MD or MD/PhD programs at schools B and C. After Feb 10, can the MD/PhD committee at school A see your acceptances to schools B and C, or can only the MD committee see them?
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 4,143
Between Feb 10th and April 1st, only programs that have accepted you will see other acceptances. That is, they are unable to see you until they have accepted you. On March 15th, every program must extend acceptances to at least fill their expected class.
The hypothetical that you are describing requires a very unusual amount of communication between programs in the same institution. I suspect that the MD admissions dean from program A (not even the MD admissions committee) might be the only person seeing those particular other acceptances. They are so busy filling their large classes (as compared to MD/PhD), that I highly doubt any specific communication occurs.
I honestly think that the system is fair - protecting the privacy of students while at the same time allowing admission officers be able to fill (not under or over) their classes.
The hypothetical that you are describing requires a very unusual amount of communication between programs in the same institution. I suspect that the MD admissions dean from program A (not even the MD admissions committee) might be the only person seeing those particular other acceptances. They are so busy filling their large classes (as compared to MD/PhD), that I highly doubt any specific communication occurs.
I honestly think that the system is fair - protecting the privacy of students while at the same time allowing admission officers be able to fill (not under or over) their classes.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 4,143
Update on 2016 MD/PhD cycle, this is the best placement for MD/PhD applicants:
Total MD/PhD Applicants - 1891
Withdrew before acceptance (WB) - 21
Currently rejected (RJ, PW, PR) - 1185
Alternate List - 3
Total MD/PhD Acceptances - 458 (at least one MD/PhD acceptance)
Withdrew after acceptance (WA) - 7
Current MD/PhD class - 451
In prior cycles, there are about 750-775 total MD/PhD acceptances to fill a matriculating MD/PhD class of 620-635 first year MD/PhD students, which means that there will be ~ 115 WA and ~20 Deferrals to later years by the end of the cycle (currently 7 & 0, respectively). Now, about half of those deferrals will eventually be added to future classes. Out of prior MD/PhD cycles, about a dozen additional applicants who had been deferred would be added prior to start of classes. Thus, we might end up the 2016 MD/PhD cycle with just a few more than 1900 applicants. Out of the "currently rejected" MD/PhD pool, there are about 75 applicants who will eventually be moved into an MD/PhD acceptance. Typically, those who haven't been notified despite changes in portal status. I also suspect that at least half of the MD/PhD accepted students have multiple acceptances to MD/PhD and/or MD programs.
In sum, there are about 300 applicants with no MD/PhD acceptances (as of this week) who will get at least one MD/PhD acceptance by the end of the cycle. Let's have high hopes for each of you over the next 3 months. Remember that every MD/PhD program must offer at least as many acceptances as they have slots by March 15th.
Total MD/PhD Applicants - 1891
Withdrew before acceptance (WB) - 21
Currently rejected (RJ, PW, PR) - 1185
Alternate List - 3
Total MD/PhD Acceptances - 458 (at least one MD/PhD acceptance)
Withdrew after acceptance (WA) - 7
Current MD/PhD class - 451
In prior cycles, there are about 750-775 total MD/PhD acceptances to fill a matriculating MD/PhD class of 620-635 first year MD/PhD students, which means that there will be ~ 115 WA and ~20 Deferrals to later years by the end of the cycle (currently 7 & 0, respectively). Now, about half of those deferrals will eventually be added to future classes. Out of prior MD/PhD cycles, about a dozen additional applicants who had been deferred would be added prior to start of classes. Thus, we might end up the 2016 MD/PhD cycle with just a few more than 1900 applicants. Out of the "currently rejected" MD/PhD pool, there are about 75 applicants who will eventually be moved into an MD/PhD acceptance. Typically, those who haven't been notified despite changes in portal status. I also suspect that at least half of the MD/PhD accepted students have multiple acceptances to MD/PhD and/or MD programs.
In sum, there are about 300 applicants with no MD/PhD acceptances (as of this week) who will get at least one MD/PhD acceptance by the end of the cycle. Let's have high hopes for each of you over the next 3 months. Remember that every MD/PhD program must offer at least as many acceptances as they have slots by March 15th.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
Thank you for the thorough, thoughtful analysis.
Thank you so much for all of this information and for your guidance this year!
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 8,597
- Reaction score
- 19,854
Hey guys, I'm interested, how many non trad applicants do we have on these boards this cycle?
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 128
- Reaction score
- 141
Just curious--how do you want to define non-traditional? I'll have been out of college for three years.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 8,597
- Reaction score
- 19,854
Anyone who does not go to medical school immediately after undergrad
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
Nontrad here
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2015
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 26
Nontrad! 
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2015
- Messages
- 315
- Reaction score
- 376
Don't mean to derail the nontrad thing going here (traditional by the way), but has anyone gotten financial aid emails from schools they've been rejected from? Before I call tomorrow and have them confirm once again I am rejected, I was hoping one of you might have the answer. The reason it is odd is because it is coming from Emory where I actually did interview (my guess is that these are just form emails sent to every applicant, but seemed weird to be getting them). The first one I ignored because it was reminding me to get in my fafsa if I was applying for financial aid. Tonight's was another "reminder" that I am missing documents that could affect my financial aid... Huh???? If there is anyone with some words of wisdom, it would be greatly appreciated.
Hey buddy!! Don't worry about the Emory emails -- they are going to all of the people who are in the MD pool. I was rejected MSTP pre-interview and started getting them soon after I was transferred to the MD pool, and my friend who applied MD but has not been invited to interview has been receiving them as well. They unfortunately seem to be some glitch but don't hold much meaning :/ Truly cruel though for them to not even check and to send to someone who was rejected post-interview! So sorry!!!! If you still want to call them, I wouldn't blame you one bit lol. Hopefully this puts your mind slightly more at ease for tonight though.
Also, not sure if non-non-trads are supposed to answer LOL, but I am traditional and currently a college senior!
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2015
- Messages
- 315
- Reaction score
- 376
Thanks @starfun21. I figured as much, but seriously, they should take you out of the system after they reject you!Hey buddy!! Don't worry about the Emory emails -- they are going to all of the people who are in the MD pool. I was rejected MSTP and started getting them soon after, and my friend who applied MD but has not been invited to interview has been receiving them as well. They unfortunately seem to be some glitch but don't hold much meaning :/ Truly cruel though for them to not even check and to send to someone who was rejected post-interview! So sorry!!!! If you still want to call them, I wouldn't blame you lol but thought I'd put your mind hopefully slightly more at ease for tonight.
Also, not sure if non-non-trads are supposed to answer LOL, but I am traditional and currently a college senior!
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 791
- Reaction score
- 1,041
Non trad, but just 1 year out of college.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2015
- Messages
- 205
- Reaction score
- 273
+1 for having gotten these emails and being bitter about them!Thanks @starfun21. I figured as much, but seriously, they should take you out of the system after they reject you!
(no interview invites/rejections or anything. total silence)
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
+1 for having gotten these emails and being bitter about them!
I've also gotten the emails (here is looking at you, Emory). Though I'm not bitter about it, it does not place them in the most ideal light. Just imagine how it would look if we applicants had a glitch in our system which kept sending unsolicited emails to schools; I doubt they (the schools) would hold us in high favor! Indeed, there's a double-standard which favors juggernaut institutions--with the financial means of addressing technical glitches--over mere mortals. It's annoying, but I'm not going to call them (yet, anyway). It'll probably get sorted out.
As I get older, I also become less forgiving (albeit more understanding) of unprofessionalism. Get it together, schools-- we (your applicants) had!
Hi @Fencer , thank you for the helpful information!
I was just curious if you could clarify 2 points for me. The 1185 applicants currently rejected - does that number reflect rejections from every program to which they applied? Or just ones they have heard back from so far?
Also wondering if you could explain this further - Out of the "currently rejected" MD/PhD pool, there are about 75 applicants who will eventually be moved into an MD/PhD acceptance? Thank you!
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
My rudimentary understanding is that the 1185 applicants are those who's status to date is "rejected"; that is, the applicant has not been accepted by any of the programs which have reported a status on that applicant. There still may be a subset of programs to which the applicant has applied but not yet heard back which might still ultimately accept the applicant (approx 75 of the 1185 currently without acceptances).
I'm piecing this together based on other posts in the thread (quoted below), and have not done the due diligence of actually looking up the data or educating myself on the process, so take my commentary with a grain of salt--I could be completely off base!
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
- Messages
- 8,537
- Reaction score
- 7,761
Nontrad lurking (not in the application phase) way nontrad actually
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 4,143
These are the interim best placements for applicants, and rough estimates of how advanced the MD/PhD admission cycle is. This requires posting of internal actions, at a time that guidelines suggest to be posted within a week of they occurring. Many programs have offered acceptances as reflected in the MD/PhD acceptance thread. My intent is to diminish anxiety among applicants by making you aware of information. There is a substantial number of MD/PhD applicants (SDN members and lurkers) who will receive over the next 14 weeks at least one offer for MD/PhD acceptance.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2015
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 69
+1 graduated 2011 with a non trad degree.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 128
- Reaction score
- 141
I really like this thread (thanks @BR2016!), but like any other thread, it has the issue of important information disappearing into the depths as it grows longer. With that in mind, maybe it would be worth having (either here or on a different thread), a more structured format, such as in the invite, acceptance, waitlist, and rejection threads. If so, one way to do it would be to have something of an "FAQ" format, where anyone can contribute questions, and anyone can contribute answer, label them according to their username. We can use the quote/reply functions to keep all the questions and answers in place and easily accessible. I'm definitely not trying to subvert the discussion format--more suggesting that after discussion happens and specific questions and answers appear, they could be added to a database.
Part of my motivation is that it's almost time for people to start preparing applications for the 2016/2017 cycle, and I don't think most will want to scroll through all of the pages of a thread. Having something like an FAQ could be a way for applicants to quickly find the information we wished we'd known at the time (or still wish we knew, haha). And yep, I know it sounds kind of like having a general forum list, except that (1) this format would allow constant reorganization by all members, rather than just the forum/thread creator, (2) the database would be more geared towards general questions than individualized ones, and (3) it would probably get a lot more traffic because it would address multiple topics.
Here are a few things I wish I'd known or still want to know:
-How best to choose which schools to apply to / which offer to accept
-How to assess one's competitiveness as an applicant
-How best to prepare for an MD/PhD interview
-How much does it actually matter to get secondaries done quickly?
-When should one freak out, and when should one not worry?
-I bet we can find a ton more questions...
Thoughts? I'd be happy to start one unless there's a desire to embed it into this thread.
Part of my motivation is that it's almost time for people to start preparing applications for the 2016/2017 cycle, and I don't think most will want to scroll through all of the pages of a thread. Having something like an FAQ could be a way for applicants to quickly find the information we wished we'd known at the time (or still wish we knew, haha). And yep, I know it sounds kind of like having a general forum list, except that (1) this format would allow constant reorganization by all members, rather than just the forum/thread creator, (2) the database would be more geared towards general questions than individualized ones, and (3) it would probably get a lot more traffic because it would address multiple topics.
Here are a few things I wish I'd known or still want to know:
-How best to choose which schools to apply to / which offer to accept
-How to assess one's competitiveness as an applicant
-How best to prepare for an MD/PhD interview
-How much does it actually matter to get secondaries done quickly?
-When should one freak out, and when should one not worry?
-I bet we can find a ton more questions...
Thoughts? I'd be happy to start one unless there's a desire to embed it into this thread.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2015
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 169
I think having a compilation would definitely be useful for posterity, but I think the way to do it would be to make one of those "Discussion" things that the MD forum has. So if you go to the Allopathic medicine forum, there's a folder (or whatever you call it) that says "School specific discussions" and then inside there are threads for specific schools. So I guess the parallel would be a discussion section called something like "MD/PhD application cycle FAQ" and individual threads nested under that would be "How did you choose your program", etc.
I think a moderator needs to make the said folders though.
Edit: Ok, so the hierarchy is that we are in the Research Forum and in the Physician Scientists Discussion, inside which are all of these threads.
So maybe we could ask one of the moderators to make an MD/PhD Application discussion? I think the topic has enough activity that it could warrant a separate section.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 128
- Reaction score
- 141
My only worry about that format is that it doesn't allow non-moderators to organize or condense the information. There's already this page, but there are 141 pages of threads, and no apparent rhyme or reason to the organization. The ability for anyone to modify/add as they go to the interview invites, waitlist, acceptances, and rejections threads is what makes them particularly appealing to me.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 791
- Reaction score
- 1,041
So, anyone else in the boat of deciding between your top choice school MD versus another program MSTP? Haven't heard back from 4 schools yet (including my top choice MSTP) so who knows if I'll actually have to make this decision, but based on my options right now, I'll be deciding between my absolute favorite school MD w/ option to apply for internal MSTP admission, and one of my top 5 choices MSTP. I know that considering any MD program over any MSTP is practically cardinal sin on this forum, but let's be real, many face this decision. It sucks! Especially when the MD school is one that you always dreamed of going to! Mehhhhhhh. Realistically I think I would still chose the MSTP, but turning down that MD program would be incredibly painful.
The wait makes it worse. I can't help but think about my current options even knowing that it may get a lot more complicated in March.
The wait makes it worse. I can't help but think about my current options even knowing that it may get a lot more complicated in March.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
- Messages
- 1,783
- Reaction score
- 584
I had to make that choice back when I applied. It was absolutely miserable and I made more pro/con lists than I even thought possible.
Hopefully, one of your top MSTP choices will come through. If not, feel free to send me a PM when d-day comes.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 261
what about a google doc?
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 4,143
As a PD with interest in how people make decisions, every year, out of the ~750 people who are offer at least one MD/PhD acceptance, we have about 100-120 who withdraw and pursue another program, typically a MD only plan of studies. I have had applicants who withdraw (before an impending acceptance or after an acceptance) from MD/PhD to pursue an MD program at an Ivy. Can you live without doing research? If the answer is that you would feel frustrated, then pursue MD/PhD.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 791
- Reaction score
- 1,041
Thanks for the very good advice! For me, the answer to the bolded question is definitely no... as I said, realistically I am going with the MSTP, as I cannot imagine a career without research. Just tough to let go of a dream w/ respect to a specific school!
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
I was going to suggest the same thing. A Google doc is ideal for this sort of collaborative endeavor. We can make a booklet of sorts; the last one to be made for MDPHD applicants was well over a decade ago.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 128
- Reaction score
- 141
Sounds good to me! Anyone know a way that it can be both open to a large number of editors, but resistant to people messing with it?
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
- Messages
- 1,783
- Reaction score
- 584
We did something like this for this year's class of Med-Peds residency applicants. We have a giant spreadsheet listing stats, programs applied to, and interviews granted for each applicant. We have another page recommending best and worst programs for things like medical education, research, and global health, which could easily be extended to field of research if you guys decide to do something similar. Finally, we have anonymous reviews of each program.
It's totally anonymous and we plan to lock and release the doc after match day. If you guys want to make an MD/PhD version, I think it's a great idea!
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
Well, we can all share the link here and everyone can add to it, but we can also designate some "editors" to make sure nothing goes south by others. I doubt anyone on this forum especially will mess with it intentionally, but the "known entities" can keep an eye on it. Once we are satisfied with the booklet, we can lock it and share it. It can be updated annually to keep it current. I imagine the initial version will be the most time-intensive.
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
I would imagine this is most invaluable, especially if we can get candid views from people in different stages as they progress along their education and career. .I would also think the concerns shift as one progresses, too.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
I can imagine, especially since medical school dreams are encouraged by others, as well. Ultimately, I'd go to the school/program that fits you best and meets your needs. Personally, I found it helpful to not consider the school rank or name initially, weigh each school's strengths and weaknesses, and then factor in the other stuff and adjusting for relative importance. Turns out schools start to look more alike than different (in terms of opportunities) once I ignored identities (it was quite revealing, actually, because the "flavor" of each school was more readily apparent).
Of note, you can still do research without the PhD, but it does become more difficult; and, depending on the field, even prohibitively so. If you want the a career as a physician-scientist, then the MSTP streamlines some of the many challenges one will face, and offers advantages that may be lacking considerably at even the top MD programs.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 261
I'd be happy to host the google doc. I stuck the link inside my SDN profile so you can see the link only if you've logged in (obviously not going to solve all problems). I can keep an eye on it and would appreciate if others wanted to help with that as well.
You can see that I made a new gmail account for anonymity. When you edit, you may choose to do it incognito so your Google account info doesn't get copied into the edit history.
EDIT: let me know if you cant find the link, it's in the 'about me' section
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
I can see the link and access it fine. How do I make my profile "incognito"?
EDIT: I will help monitor the doc also, and I hope we as a community will opt to do so.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
- Messages
- 110
- Reaction score
- 261
By incognito I meant opening up an incognito browsing window
happy editing!
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Messages
- 812
- Reaction score
- 795
Ah. I'm a dummy.By incognito I meant opening up an incognito browsing window
Also, I see some work is being done on it. So exciting!
