*** 2017-2018 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Fencer]

I have not created this thread as of yet for this year.

Here are some stats. As of 9/1/17, the cohort of MD/PhD applicants for this year has taken primarily the new MCAT. Out of the 1338 MD/PhD applicants to date, only 50 haven't taken it as of yet (27 w old MCAT). The average new MCAT for all MD/PhD applicants is 512 (n=1288). I expect around 1900 applicants by the end of the cycle.

Last cycle (2016-17), we also had an average new MCAT for applicants at this point of 512 (n=991) with 245 applicants with old MCAT and 18 waiting to take it. We had 1825 applicants for this cycle.

It is my impression that AMCAS seems to be verifying applications a bit faster than in prior cycles.

Here is the link for the national GOOGLE calendar for MD/PhD programs interviews and second visits. It needs updating for the 2017-18 cycle. It should be live in a couple of weeks:
MD-PhD Interviews and Revisit Days

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[Fencer]

In the Invitation to Interview thread, we have reports of invitations from 50 MD/PhD programs. We are also now at mid-September, many of you have received some invitations, and the great majority of applicants are nervous about their chances.
Here are some stats:
1489 MD/PhD applicants (verified applications) by 09/20
1437 applicants have taken the new MCAT
average new MCAT for applicants - 511.5
average cGPA for applicants - 3.69
average science GPA - 3.62

The calendar link above now lists the schedules for interviews of several MD/PhD programs. There is a change in the person running this calendar and doing the service to our community to collect the information.

IMPORTANT ADVICE:
On average, you should be looking to do 8-12 interviews, to get 3-5 acceptances to choose from. Unless you have very special circumstances, don't interview in more than 15 programs. Start triaging interviews. By now (late September), about half of the interview spots have already been scheduled. If you have 6+ interviews scheduled, you are like to be OK, specially if you haven't heard from 6-10 schools that are a match or safety. This should be an enjoyable journey. If you have 6 or less invitations, and the schools that you haven't heard are only "reach schools". Consider adding a few more schools that are match and/or safety. If you have already verified, you will appear into their pool of applicants within 2-3 days.

PM me if you want to discuss specifics. There is still time to make it on this cycle...

 

[shadow522]

I am curious about your opinion on something. Among the NIH-funded MSTPs, how much meaning does the US News-given rank of a school have? I read through a number of other posters' comments and it still seems unclear to me whether a difference in quality of education or potential reputation-based benefit (esp. for residency application purposes) for attending a rank #10 vs rank #30 exists.

(I only mentioned the US News list because I don't know of another ranking list. I know the NIH has lists with funding #s for each school, but I'm unsure of where those lists are and links on some of the old sdn threads are outdated/no longer exist. I would be happy if you could share new NIH funding links/resources, too.)

 

[Fencer]

These are NIH rankings to medical school departments in 2016. The flaw is that for places like Harvard, most of the research is done at the hospitals (Mass General, Partners, etc...).

Ranking Tables of National Institutes of Health (NIH) Award Data 2016

US News & World report has a significant portion of just "old boys reputation" that takes years to change and does not mean excellent MSTP training.

 

[playedmyself55]

Thanks for making this thread! Do you by any chance have data on how many international students applied to MD/PhD programs this year? Even the MSAR doesn't provide MD/PhD program-specific demographic data for international applications/interviews, and I am curious about how many schools that 'accept highly qualified non-US citizens' actually interview international students (especially since many of these schools didn't matriculate any internationals this fall).

 

[Lucca]

Thanks for making this thread! Do you by any chance have data on how many international students applied to MD/PhD programs this year? Even the MSAR doesn't provide MD/PhD program-specific demographic data for international applications/interviews, and I am curious about how many schools that 'accept highly qualified non-US citizens' actually interview international students (especially since many of these schools didn't matriculate any internationals this fall).

https://www.aamc.org/download/321546/data/factstableb9.pdf

18 potential international students matriculated last cycle among 649 total matriculants. 4 definite internationals.

 

[Fencer]

The problem with this table is that there are some individuals who have green cards or are US citizens living abroad. They are included in the international pool. The true number of international students is quite small.

For information, look at:
MD-PhD Dual Degree Training
Tools for MD-PhD Applicants
and in particular: in the last link look for the worksheet entitled "Individual MD-PhD Program Information for Prospective Applicants"

 

[playedmyself55]

Great. Thanks for the response (and links)! I'll look through this information as I try to decide the best way to proceed when I apply next year.

 

[TurtleGnome]

I’m curious - do you have information on the total number of acceptances offered so far? I’m wondering how many spots from earlier interview spots they select vs leaving them open for later interview slots

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Nov. 1, 2017

Total number of applicants - 1747
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 75
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 1
Currently Accepted (AC) - 73

Average benchmarks for the 75 with a MD/PhD acceptance
cGPA - 3.84
sGPA - 3.82
MCAT - 517.9

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD acceptances with about 100+ WA (to MD programs) and about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students.

 

[Microbug]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Nov. 1, 2017

Total number of applicants - 1747
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 75
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 1
Currently Accepted (AC) - 73

Average benchmarks for the 75 with a MD/PhD acceptance
cGPA - 3.84
sGPA - 3.82
MCAT - 517.9

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD acceptances with about 100+ WA (to MD programs) and about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students.

What can be grounds for program rescinding acceptances?

 

[Fencer]

It is rare. Every year there is one or two RAs but typically close to the end of the cycle. For example, you run a background check after acceptance, and the admission officer finds something unexpected and not disclosed previously.

 

[hello311]

@Fencer I was wondering if you could comment on the number of remaining interview spots at this point in the cycle. Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

Check out the google calendar... Some programs finish interviews in December, majority in January, and a few in early February. Most slots for interviews are extended 4-6 weeks prior to interview, with perhaps a couple of invitations closer to interview date due to rescheduling/cancellations. Most PDs don't enter data directly into AP Tools (AMCAS). Thus, most of them don't use the features for interviewing that are available, which means that the national reports don't capture information that is relevant to answer your question.

 

[bunnyluvr]

@Fencer I expect this must vary widely by school, but I was wondering if you could provide some insight on what the typical range is for the number of students that a school will accept after the interview stage. Schools only report number of extended interviews and then matriculation numbers rather than acceptances, and so there's a missing step there.

Say a school gets 400 applications and interviews around 70 students, to matriculate around 10. How many of the 70 interviewees might expect an acceptance? Or a high position on the wait list? I guess this question also is primarily referring to the schools that do not do rolling admissions, but maybe it's the same for either?

Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

No data available, but I suspect that the numbers would be between 1/3 and 1/2 of interviewees if WB are included. Quite a few people who would be within that top 1/2 of interviewees as ranked by the program after interviews withdraw prior to acceptance (WB). Those numbers are also not included in any reported yield (% of acceptances that matriculate) that a program might disclose to applicants.

 

[Microbug]

No data available, but I suspect that the numbers would be between 1/3 and 1/2 of interviewees if WB are included. Quite a few people who would be within that top 1/2 of interviewees as ranked by the program after interviews withdraw prior to acceptance (WB). Those numbers are also not included in any reported yield (% of acceptances that matriculate) that a program might disclose to applicants.

What do you think the GOP tax bill would mean for MSTP students... considering both med and grad school tuition waiver would now be taxable income...?

 

[Fencer]

It is sounds like the GOP tax bill will be struggling to make it after yesterday's election and given the cost of the bill (adding to the deficit). Clearly, the aspect of the bill that you mentioned is one that would be damaging for MD/PhD and Graduate students.

 

[bunnyluvr]

@Fencer, is there data available for the average number of interviews that MD/PhD candidates had in last year's cycle? I know you said above that 8 - 12 is ideal, but does that represent the average seen in previous years?

Is it typically the case that applicants receive acceptances from about half of their interviews, or does this vary widely?

Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

There is no public data on either question. This is based upon my reviews of MSTP grant applications in study section (program tables), as well as talking with other MD/PhD directors. The only national data available is about the average number of MD/PhD applications per applicant. See the footnote on last page of the 2016 cycle: https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/factstableb8.pdf
13.5 MD/PhD applications per applicant

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Dec. 1, 2017

Total number of applicants - 1808
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 149
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 5
Currently Accepted (AC) - 143

Average benchmarks for the 143 with a MD/PhD acceptance

cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.80
MCAT - 517.1​

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD applicants to receive at least one acceptance, with about 100+ to WA (to MD programs) plus about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a matriculating class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. Many times the deferrals are added at the end of the cycle, reactivating a prior application to a single school, so the final tally of total applicants increases by about 20 close to the end.

 

[VSA]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Dec. 1, 2017

Total number of applicants - 1808
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 149
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 5
Currently Accepted (AC) - 143

Average benchmarks for the 143 with a MD/PhD acceptance

cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.80
MCAT - 517.1​

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD applicants to receive at least one acceptance, with about 100+ to WA (to MD programs) plus about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a matriculating class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. Many times the deferrals are added at the end of the cycle, reactivating a prior application to a single school, so the final tally of total applicants increases by about 20 close to the end.

 

[VSA]

Has anyone heard back from SUNY Upstate MD PhD acceptances for incoming fall 2018?

 

[shadow522]

Has anyone heard back from SUNY Upstate MD PhD acceptances for incoming fall 2018?

2017-2018 Cycle MD/PhD Acceptances

 

[yolo0987]

Z

 

[kli586]

I have been fortunate enough to have been accepted to a top MSTP program. However, I am considering to just pursue an MD-only from the school, instead of MD/PhD as I am starting to feel that I do not need and that I do not want to pursue PhD anymore. Is it possible if I make the choice of enrolling into the school's MD program? If so, how will the financial aid work out?

FYI: The interview days did consist of a couple of MD interviews. Hence, my MSTP acceptance offer meant that I have also been accepted to the medical school.??

Did you get accepted last Friday?

 

[yolo0987]

Z

 

[shadow522]

No, I was not accepted last Friday. I got the offer in September, but have come to decide that I do not want the PhD.

that doesn't make sense. schools are not allowed to release acceptance decisions until oct 15 *or the next business day if oct 15 falls on a weekend or holiday.

 

[Lucca]

that doesn't make sense. schools are not allowed to release acceptance decisions until oct 15 *or the next business day if oct 15 falls on a weekend or holiday.

Chiming in as a mod now: let’s let people protect their privacy how they see fit and only share information voluntarily, not prod them for it when they are asking an unrelated question.

 

[yolo0987]

that doesn't make sense. schools are not allowed to release acceptance decisions until oct 15 *or the next business day if oct 15 falls on a weekend or holiday.

 

[VSA]

Just wondering if anyone heard from SUNY Upstate MD PhD?

 

[VSA]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Dec. 1, 2017

Total number of applicants - 1808
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 149
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 5
Currently Accepted (AC) - 143

Average benchmarks for the 143 with a MD/PhD acceptance

cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.80
MCAT - 517.1​

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD applicants to receive at least one acceptance, with about 100+ to WA (to MD programs) plus about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a matriculating class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. Many times the deferrals are added at the end of the cycle, reactivating a prior application to a single school, so the final tally of total applicants increases by about 20 close to the end.

 

[VSA]

This is great information. So approx 50% of applicants receive at least 1 acceptance it seems when all is said and done.

 

[Fencer]

It is only 40-42% in recent years...

 

[VSA]

It is only 40-42% in recent years...

thank you

 

[VSA]

thank you

Just curious. The 40-42% is based on the number of applicants? Are there stats on percentage accepted based on the number interviewed?

 

[Fencer]

It is based on total number of AMCAS applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance divided by total number of AMCAS applicants with at least one MD/PhD application. I have followed the stat for the past 7 years.

 

[VSA]

It is based on total number of AMCAS applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance divided by total number of AMCAS applicants with at least one MD/PhD application. I have followed the stat for the past 7 years.

Great, Thx so much!

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Jan. 1, 2018

Total number of applicants - 1816
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 292
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 2
Currently Accepted (AC) - 289

Average benchmarks for applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance
cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.80
MCAT - 516.9

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD acceptances with about 100+ WA (to MD programs) and about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students.

An important point to many applicants who have multiple MD/PhD interviews but no acceptances. If you interviewed well, and your academic and research benchmarks are similar to students that matriculated in those programs, you have a great chance of getting in... ~ 62% of applicants who will eventually receive at least a MD/PhD acceptance haven't yet heard the news (just like you). Many programs haven't made decisions.

 

[HamiltonPineapples]

Some schools (supposedly) make decisions in December, but don't notify applicants until January. Do these numbers reflect those decisions, or only the applicants who have been notified.

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Jan. 1, 2018

Total number of applicants - 1816
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 292
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 2
Currently Accepted (AC) - 289

Average benchmarks for applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance
cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.80
MCAT - 516.9

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD acceptances with about 100+ WA (to MD programs) and about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students.

An important point to many applicants who have multiple MD/PhD interviews but no acceptances. If you interviewed well, and your academic and research benchmarks are similar to students that matriculated in those programs, you have a great chance of getting in... ~ 62% of applicants who will eventually receive at least a MD/PhD acceptance haven't yet heard the news (just like you). Many programs haven't made decisions.

 

[Fencer]

School MD/PhD admission committees might have done initial decisions, but not offered yet. The next 3 big batches of MD/PhD acceptances are in the week after February 10th and the week before March 15th. The reason is that on February 10th, AMCAS releases to programs the national list of applicants with acceptances (which and how many), and on March 15th, programs have to have at least as many acceptances as they intend to have in their 2018 matriculation class. The numbers posted are as reported in the national system.

 

[mega_]

One thing i am just curious about is how do the school manage having 2x amount of acceptances and yet get +-1 amount of matriculants? Do they just use statistics from previous years to decide of how many acceptances to give? Or do schools generally under-use acceptances, and then get people off the wait-list? Is there some type of developed and precise formula, or its more or less just a rule-of-thumb calculations? What if the school has made a mistake in the calculations and took too many students?

 

[Microbug]

One thing i am just curious about is how do the school manage having 2x amount of acceptances and yet get +-1 amount of matriculants? Do they just use statistics from previous years to decide of how many acceptances to give? Or do schools generally under-use acceptances, and then get people off the wait-list? Is there some type of developed and precise formula, or its more or less just a rule-of-thumb calculations? What if the school has made a mistake in the calculations and took too many students?

Depends on the program, probably a combination of the things you said

 

[druish]

I'm wondering if the google calendar is a complete list of all the md/phd interview dates? For example, the last UPenn interview date is 1/18-19 but is it possible that they are hosting more interview dates and people haven't reported them yet?

 

[Fencer]

People do email updates to the calendar coordinator, but they might neglect adding an extra day of interviews that was planned at last minute... I suggest to contact the program coordinator of any specific school requesting the information.

 

[bunnyluvr]

So at what point in the cycle does it become impossible to switch to a school off the waitlist? Say you are accepted into School A and on April 30 they are the only acceptance you are holding. Then you start a summer research rotation there, you move into the city, you get a place to live, etc. But then in July you get off the waitlist to your number 1 choice - School B. Is it still possible to switch over to school B at this point?

This question is easier for MSTPs that don't require a summer research rotation before the 1st year, but for those who do, can you technically leave the program for another one even during the rotation?

 

[Microbug]

So at what point in the cycle does it become impossible to switch to a school off the waitlist? Say you are accepted into School A and on April 30 they are the only acceptance you are holding. Then you start a summer research rotation there, you move into the city, you get a place to live, etc. But then in July you get off the waitlist to your number 1 choice - School B. Is it still possible to switch over to school B at this point?

This question is easier for MSTPs that don't require a summer research rotation before the 1st year, but for those who do, can you technically leave the program for another one even during the rotation?

You can switch until you matriculate. I would believe doing summer rotation counts as matriculating, especially bc most of them are paid. It would be extremely unprofessional to switch school at that point after you have started at one school. Most schools recommend summer rotation but does not require it. Most start in June anyways so I can’t imagine it being a huge problem.

 

[shadow522]

For people with acceptances and planning their second looks, if you are crossing the country to attend 2nd look and it starts at noon on a thursday, is it reasonable to request that the MSTP cover the cost of your hotel on the Wednesday night as well? (I won't be able to make the full 2nd look itinerary if i don't go on Wednesday...)

 

[bunnyluvr]

For people with acceptances and planning their second looks, if you are crossing the country to attend 2nd look and it starts at noon on a thursday, is it reasonable to request that the MSTP cover the cost of your hotel on the Wednesday night as well? (I won't be able to make the full 2nd look itinerary if i don't go on Wednesday...)

This reply is kind of late so you might have an answer already but I suspect this is an entirely reasonable request. MSTP programs did similar things for interviews, so I suspect that they'd be equally if not more generous for 2nd look visits.

 

[Microbug]

Mount Sinai waitlist