2nd year PharmD student. What are my chances anywhere?

[drhenPharmD]

Graduated in 2009
Major: B.S. Biomedical Engineering
Minor: Biological Sciences
cGPA: 3.0
sGPA: 3.1
PCAT: 84/100 (probably irrelevant)

Currently: Pharmacy school - pharmD class of 2014 (4 yr program)
cGPA: 3.6
Note: I'm signed up for the June 21st MCAT and plan on applying to medical schools this summer. I have many reasons for switching professions, but the most important one is that I'd like to do more for my patients. That means I need more training to deserve the additional privileges.

Honors: Currently in the top 15% of my class. Academic scholarship recipient.

MCAT: Practice test scores in the high 20s/low 30s.

Clinical Experience: Currently work part-time in a hospital ER doing medication counseling and reconciliation. Completed 1 rotation at a level 1 trauma center. The focuses were internal medicine and critical care. Pharmacy students rounded with medical students at this site.

Research Experience: Undergrad researcher for BioMiNT labs on campus for 2 summers. My projects focused on nano-tech sensing systems. The clinical application is restoring sensation to prosthetic limbs. Never published.

Leadership Experience: Class President 2010-2011. American Pharmacists Association - Academy of Student Pharmacists President (2012-2013)

Volunteer Experience: I volunteered for a 2 months at a free clinic for the homeless. This experience doubles as clinical exposure as I shadowed a PA the entire time. Also, I traveled to rural Taiwan in 2007 to teach English to underprivileged grade-school children.

Letters of Recommendation: 1 strong letter from my pharmacogenomics professor (PhD) (will speak to my academic ability), 1 strong letter from the clinical coordinator at my rotation site (pharmD)(will speak to my clinical exposure, work ethic and humanistic patient care). 1 mediocre letter from a PA. 1 weak letter from a DO physician whom I shadowed briefly (only physician to welcome pre-med students. I figure any physician letter is better than no letter)

Miscellaneous: Bilingual (Mandarin)

Thank you for your time and advice.

P.S. I've heard some institutions may not prefer pharmD applicants or allied health profession changes. If you've heard something to this effect at your institution, please let me know. I'd really appreciate it.

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[notbobtrustme]

You gotta kill the MCAT with that low GPA. That GPA isn't even 10th percentile at most low/mid tier schools (MD). I don't know much about DO schools, but the average acceptant has something like a 3.4 or 3.5 GPA.

 

[drhenPharmD]

Do you think my graduate work will offset my undergrad GPA a little bit? I have 2 full years of 3.7cGPA grades.

 

[Jamie561]

Do you think my graduate work will offset my undergrad GPA a little bit? I have 2 full years of 3.7cGPA grades at LECOM -Bradenton.

Graduate grades will mean very little. With your subpar stats, i would steer clear of most MD schools. You will deal with stigma due to your decision to "jump ship" along with your academics from UG.

Moreover, where is the shadowing and clinical and nonclunical volunteering?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[drhenPharmD]

Just thought I'd throw in an update. I got a 31 on the MCAT. 10P, 9V, 12B. MD and DO apps submitted 8/1/12. 26 schools in total. Completed 2 supplementals so far.

 

[Temperature101]

Just thought I'd throw in an update. I got a 31 on the MCAT. MD and DO apps submitted 8/1/12. 26 schools in total. Completed 2 supplementals so far.

You are looking good for DO with that MCAT if you can explain why you are leaving your PharmD program. MD will be an uphill battle due to your low undergrad GPAs.

 

[Bamfu]

I don't think MD is out of the question honestly. Pharmacy school isn't a walk in the park by any means (in fact, my fiancee just finished), and if your GPA was decent there, it shows you're no dummy.

You won't have a chance with higher tier schools, but I wouldn't lock everywhere out by any means. Find some lower tier schools you are interested in.

You have to keep in mind that despite SDN being incredibly useful, most people on any forum are elitist behind the anonymity of the internet. I'm not going as far to say that the folks in this thread are, but you have to take all forum opinions with a grain of salt (certainly mine notwithstanding).

I personally feel that if you can provide a good reason for leaving Pharm School, you have a fair shot. Your MCAT score is good, and your PCAT score was very good (future-wife scored an 88, and that's the highest of any of her classmates that I met). The first 1-2 years of Pharm School are sometimes considered even harder than Med School - that's where they do a lot of weeding. Turns out Med Chem and Principles of Drug Action kind of suck. Most of the time, the rest of Pharm School is mostly therapeutics (which is 90% of Med School condensed).

Honestly, I think a student applying to Med School with a full knowledge of drug classes, a good idea of drug action, and the top 200 memorized has a fair chance with your stats.

Good luck!

 

[drhenPharmD]

Just thought I'd include my list of schools. Also, I started my 3rd year of pharmacy school 2 weeks ago. If I get in to med school, I'll likely ask for a deferral to finish my PharmD. Any comments on my choice of schools? I was born and raised in CA but I've been a FL resident for the last 2.5 years.

MD Schools
*NEW SCHOOL* Central Michigan University College of Medicine, MI
*NEW SCHOOL* Cooper Medical School of Rowan University, NJ
FIU Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine, FL
Florida Atlantic University Charles E. Schmidt College of Medicine, FL
Florida State University, FL
Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ., PA
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California, CA
Loma Linda University School of Medicine, CA
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science, IL
Temple University School of Medicine, PA
The Commonwealth Medical College, PA
The University of Oklahoma, OK
University of Arkansas College of Medicine, AR
University of California, Davis School of Medicine, CA
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine, CA
University of Central Florida College of Medicine, FL
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine, IA
*NEW SCHOOL* University of South Carolina School of Medicine, Greenville, SC
USF Health Morsani College of Medicine, FL
Wright State University Boonshoft School of Medicine, OH

DO Schools
*NEW SCHOOL* Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine, NC
Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, Admissions Office, IL
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, PA
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Pomona, CA

 

[FarMD2012]

Just thought I'd include my list of schools. Also, I started my 3rd year of pharmacy school 2 weeks ago. If I get in to med school, I'll likely ask for a deferral to finish my PharmD. Any comments on my choice of schools? I was born and raised in CA but I've been a FL resident for the last 2.5 years.

MD Schools
*NEW SCHOOL* Central Michigan University College of Medicine, MI
*NEW SCHOOL* Cooper Medical School of Rowan University, NJ
FIU Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine, FL
Florida Atlantic University Charles E. Schmidt College of Medicine, FL
Florida State University, FL
Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ., PA
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California, CA
Loma Linda University School of Medicine, CA
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science, IL
Temple University School of Medicine, PA
The Commonwealth Medical College, PA
The University of Oklahoma, OK
University of Arkansas College of Medicine, AR
University of California, Davis School of Medicine, CA
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine, CA
University of Central Florida College of Medicine, FL
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine, IA
*NEW SCHOOL* University of South Carolina School of Medicine, Greenville, SC
USF Health Morsani College of Medicine, FL
Wright State University Boonshoft School of Medicine, OH

DO Schools
*NEW SCHOOL* Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine, NC
Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University, Admissions Office, IL
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Bradenton Campus, FL
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, PA
Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine - California, CA
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Pomona, CA

Your thread caught my attention, here is some of my opinion.
(1)Low cGPA/sGPA from undergrad is the BIGGEST problem. Medical schools do not put as much emphasis in grad GPA simply because they care ALOT more about the BCPM GPA (and those classes are from your undergrad)
(2)You are jumping ship mid way through. How do they know you are not going to jump ship when you are in medical school? How can you convince them that medicine is for you but not pharmacy? Some medical schools will like to see you finish your grad program before applying. It puts you in a tough position because you just started P3, drop out might not look as good, but still two years from graduation.
(3)MCAT score is not bad and ECs look good.
(4)A deferral for finishing PharmD? If you are going to med school just drop the pharmacy program. Besides, isn't there a time limit to how long you can defer? After starting medical school when are you going to have time to go finish the pharmacy program? On top of that it would be useless to you if you have a MD. You cannot use those two degrees together.

Based on these concerns, you will definitely have a good shot at DO. But since you are a FL resident (correct me if I'm wrong), you might want to steer clear from UC Irvine and Davis. Other schools are good choices. You never know until you try.

Best of luck.

 

[drhenPharmD]

Your thread caught my attention, here is some of my opinion.
(1)Low cGPA/sGPA from undergrad is the BIGGEST problem. Medical schools do not put as much emphasis in grad GPA simply because they care ALOT more about the BCPM GPA (and those classes are from your undergrad)
(2)You are jumping ship mid way through. How do they know you are not going to jump ship when you are in medical school? How can you convince them that medicine is for you but not pharmacy? Some medical schools will like to see you finish your grad program before applying. It puts you in a tough position because you just started P3, drop out might not look as good, but still two years from graduation.
(3)MCAT score is not bad and ECs look good.
(4)A deferral for finishing PharmD? If you are going to med school just drop the pharmacy program. Besides, isn't there a time limit to how long you can defer? After starting medical school when are you going to have time to go finish the pharmacy program? On top of that it would be useless to you if you have a MD. You cannot use those two degrees together.

Based on these concerns, you will definitely have a good shot at DO. But since you are a FL resident (correct me if I'm wrong), you might want to steer clear from UC Irvine and Davis. Other schools are good choices. You never know until you try.

Best of luck.

1) Why do you think medical schools put less emphasis on your graduate work? It seems to be a common theme. I would have thought that my performance in pharmacy school is more indicative of my ability to succeed in medical school than my undergrad performance, especially looking at those pharmacy courses that fall into the BCPM subjects.
2) I agree it doesn't look good that I'm applying to matriculate with only 1 year left of pharmacy school. I spent my entire PS explaining my reasons for switching and plan to reiterate at any interviews.
3) Thank you.
4) I would be asking for a 1-yr deferral to finish the pharmD. Is this generally over the time-limit?

I'm also a little unsure of my exact residency status. I imagine it may be different for each school. I was born and raised in CA and went to undergrad there. My only ties to FL are from pharmacy school. I've lived in FL full-time for the last 2.5 years.

I appreciate your comments. Good luck to you too!

 

[MicroSteph]

If you plan on asking for a 1-year deferral, why don't you just apply next year?

 

[drhenPharmD]

I've considered applying next year, however, the pharmacy 4th yr is the clinical rotation year and begins immediately after your 3rd year. My school unfortunately considers interviews for anything outside of pharmacy residency and fellowship an unexcused absence. Out here, an unexcused absence is grounds for failing the rotation. Between applying this year and next year, it seems I really only had one choice.

 

[notbobtrustme]

1) Why do you think medical schools put less emphasis on your graduate work? It seems to be a common theme. I would have thought that my performance in pharmacy school is more indicative of my ability to succeed in medical school than my undergrad performance, especially looking at those pharmacy courses that fall into the BCPM subjects.
2) I agree it doesn't look good that I'm applying to matriculate with only 1 year left of pharmacy school. I spent my entire PS explaining my reasons for switching and plan to reiterate at any interviews.
3) Thank you.
4) I would be asking for a 1-yr deferral to finish the pharmD. Is this generally over the time-limit?

I'm also a little unsure of my exact residency status. I imagine it may be different for each school. I was born and raised in CA and went to undergrad there. My only ties to FL are from pharmacy school. I've lived in FL full-time for the last 2.5 years.

I appreciate your comments. Good luck to you too!

1.) Graduate GPA can range from "everyone gets As" to "everyone gets Bs" depending on the program. Many programs don't even have an emphasis on coursework in the same sense as in undergrad.

2.) Why go through all that hassle? Just finish the PharmD and apply in 2013 for 2014. You don't want to give adcoms a reason to shuffle your application to the bottom. Some schools won't let you take a deferment to finish a degree. Those 1-year deferments are for people who truly need them.

3.) You are probably a FL resident. Paying taxes or living in the state for a certain time period (6-12 months) establishes residency in that state. On the other hand, not living in a state for 6-12 months will usually result in the loss of residency in that state.

 

[sippod]

Graduated in 2009
Major: B.S. Biomedical Engineering
Minor: Biological Sciences
cGPA: 3.0
sGPA: 3.1
PCAT: 84/100 (probably irrelevant)

Currently: Pharmacy school - pharmD class of 2014 (4 yr program)
cGPA: 3.6
Note: I'm signed up for the June 21st MCAT and plan on applying to medical schools this summer. I have many reasons for switching professions, but the most important one is that I'd like to do more for my patients. That means I need more training to deserve the additional privileges.

Honors: Currently in the top 15% of my class. Academic scholarship recipient.

MCAT: Practice test scores in the high 20s/low 30s.

Clinical Experience: Currently work part-time in a hospital ER doing medication counseling and reconciliation. Completed 1 rotation at a level 1 trauma center. The focuses were internal medicine and critical care. Pharmacy students rounded with medical students at this site.

Research Experience: Undergrad researcher for BioMiNT labs on campus for 2 summers. My projects focused on nano-tech sensing systems. The clinical application is restoring sensation to prosthetic limbs. Never published.

Leadership Experience: Class President 2010-2011. American Pharmacists Association - Academy of Student Pharmacists President (2012-2013)

Volunteer Experience: I volunteered for a 2 months at a free clinic for the homeless. This experience doubles as clinical exposure as I shadowed a PA the entire time. Also, I traveled to rural Taiwan in 2007 to teach English to underprivileged grade-school children.

Letters of Recommendation: 1 strong letter from my pharmacogenomics professor (PhD) (will speak to my academic ability), 1 strong letter from the clinical coordinator at my rotation site (pharmD)(will speak to my clinical exposure, work ethic and humanistic patient care). 1 mediocre letter from a PA. 1 weak letter from a DO physician whom I shadowed briefly (only physician to welcome pre-med students. I figure any physician letter is better than no letter)

Miscellaneous: Bilingual (Mandarin)

Thank you for your time and advice.

P.S. I've heard some institutions may not prefer pharmD applicants or allied health profession changes. If you've heard something to this effect at your institution, please let me know. I'd really appreciate it.

drhenPharmD, why do you want to change from pharm to medical school?
I am currently applying to both (pharm and med school) and really am undecided which path to choose yet. I would really like to get someone's informed opinion about what pharmacy school entails and what job opportunities are out there after graduation. I found mixed up reviews on the topic...

 

[deleted390966]

1.) Graduate GPA can range from "everyone gets As" to "everyone gets Bs" depending on the program. Many programs don't even have an emphasis on coursework in the same sense as in undergrad.

Hello,
I'm a PharmD student who had taken real medical coursework in a special SMP program. IMHO, PharmD curriculum is no cakewalk.
Pathophysio + Biochem + Immuno courses that I'm taking in P1 year are exactly the same - just as rigorous - as Medical Physio, Biochem & Immuno! An A is 93. Of course, that's not the entire course load; there are other Pharmacy courses & lab on top of that.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Hello,
I'm a PharmD student who had taken real medical coursework in a special SMP program. IMHO, PharmD curriculum is no cakewalk.
Pathophysio + Biochem + Immuno courses that I'm taking in P1 year are exactly the same - just as rigorous - as Medical Physio, Biochem & Immuno! An A is 93. Of course, that's not the entire course load; there are other Pharmacy courses & lab on top of that.

I'm sure it is, but that's not how adcoms look at it unfortunately.

 

[drhenPharmD]

drhenPharmD, why do you want to change from pharm to medical school?
I am currently applying to both (pharm and med school) and really am undecided which path to choose yet. I would really like to get someone's informed opinion about what pharmacy school entails and what job opportunities are out there after graduation. I found mixed up reviews on the topic...

Pharmacy and Medicine are both highly respected and rewarding professions, but they do very different things. A pharmacist's training focuses on treatment and there are plenty of job opportunities, especially in the clinical setting. If you're willing to relocate, learn and work hard, you'll find a good job.

But, as knowledgeable as pharmacists are, they face limits in many corners of their practice. Many of the limits are in place for the good of the patient, but many are there for political reasons. To some people, pharmacists should stick to dispensing. I don't agree, but I also don't want to fight scope of practice battles for the rest of my career. For someone that is looking to get into healthcare to help people as best they can, I suggest putting the extra years in school to become a physician.

Good luck!

 

[drhenPharmD]

Another Update.

1 Acceptance to a DO school!!!! =)

3 Rejections so far. 2 DO and 1 MD. =(

I'll let you guys know which schools when it's all said and done. Good luck!

 

[drhenPharmD]

Final update.

Interviewed at FSU and LECOMB.
Accepted at both, both granted 1-yr deferrals to finish my pharmD.
Withdrew from all DO schools after LECOM acceptance.
Rejected from all other MD schools.
Decided on LECOMB as that's where my fiancee is.

Good luck everyone.

P.S. Yes, I am following the latest in the botched merger debacle. No, I don't think I made the wrong choice.

 

[gyngyn]

1) Why do you think medical schools put less emphasis on your graduate work?

.

 

[Hospitality101]

I'm also a pharmacist exploring the possiblity of medical school and I just want to say that your post has been an inspiration. Thank you for sharing your story.

Have you given and thought as to what speciality you'd like to end up in?

 

[drhenPharmD]

Not really...

however, oncology appeals to me because of all the new therapeutics coming down the pipeline.