<3.5 SMP GPA Success this cycle?

[meMDplease]

Hey guys,

I know some people say you have to have a near perfect 4.0 in SMP to get into medical school and I've realized that this is not necessarily true. Of course, the higher the GPA always helps but the average GPA in my SMP class is definitely less than 3.5.

Would love to hear some inspirational stories of applicants who've gotten acceptances this year with <3.5 SMP GPA. What other factors in your application helped you (ECs, MCAT, reputation of school, early apps, etc).

Thanks!!

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[tiedyeddog]

This is a pre allo question. It would get much better responses over there.

 

[deleted158872]

SMP is tough, and it is unfair, i know, for you are taking the same classes as medical students and expected to get near 4.0; they only need a 70 (C-) to pass.

it also depends on how much lower than 3.5 it is.... if it's 3.4-ish, i still do think you should apply

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to Pre - Allo

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

Comeback stories from people who did poorly in a program meant to stage comebacks don't really happen...

 

[tiedyeddog]

What is your SMP gpa, OP? Sub 3.0 might be a killer.

 

[TheUPSIDEdown]

Not enough activity on this thread when I believe a lot of people can share their success. While I too was told that you need close to a 4.0 to be successful, I feel like anyone performing at roughly a B+ level shouldn't be "hurt" by doing these programs. Especially when considering the uniqueness of each program and the difficulty in comparison to the medical student's curriculum.

For example, at my school, the medical students take gross anatomy in 7 weeks and it is the only course they take. When I took it, we covered more material, it was 16 weeks, and it was taken simultaneously with neuro. Furthermore, our "graduate grading scale" is different from the professional student's; an A is a 93%, not a 90%. Clearly, there are factors to consider from the standpoint of the admissions committee.

While I am not trying to allude that our coursework was harder than the medical student's, I am trying to say that the medical students are required to PASS, my SMP classmates were required to "get as close to a 4.0 as possible."

I'm applying this cycle focusing on DO schools and also applying to my state MD school with a 27 MCAT - 9 PS 10 VR 8 BS, cGPA of 2.94 MD / 3.0+ DO, and BCMP of 2.79 for MD. ECs include experience as an ED scribe, 3 years of hospital volunteering, 100+ hours of shadowing, EMT-B training and clinical rotations (no certification), tutoring for my UG institution, and now I'm a teaching assistant at my SOM. I should also have five good LORs - 2 from SMP professors, 1 from a doc, 2 from UG professors.

My grades from the SMP were as follows:

B+ Neuro
B+ Histology
A- Embryology
B+ Physiology
B Anatomy

3.23 SMP GPA overall.

Best of luck to anyone else in this situation. Let's see how this goes and try to stay positive.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I am trying to say that the medical students are required to PASS

I'm sorry but this kind of excuse-making attitude probably doomed you from the start.

The best people to ask about this are the advisors at your SMP, who should have actual data about their students' track records

 

[TheUPSIDEdown]

I'm sorry but this kind of excuse-making attitude probably doomed you from the start.

Excuse making? o.0. I'm not trying to express an excuse, I'm stating a well known and simple fact: Medical students who pass their courses with an A or a C are still called doctors in the end. Graduate students with a C in the same course are called looking for a new career path. Period.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Excuse making? o.0. I'm not trying to express an excuse, I'm stating a well known and simple fact: Medical students who pass their courses with an A or a C are still called doctors in the end. Graduate students with a C in the same course are called looking for a new career path. Period.

You're implying that's somehow unfair. It's not.

 

[Grace184]

It's unfair in the sense that you are not yet a med student yet and this is your audition to prove you can make up for poor or undesirable grades that you don't feel correlate to your success. Therefore you are held to a higher standard to prove yourself. This SMP grade is lower or or equal to those matriculating into a DO program. My intent is not negativity, but at the same time to be realistic.

It is not fair that someone in med school can get those grades and you can't. Yet, that is why they are in med school. They have proved themselves and can afford B+s.

 

[lavlavs]

The med admissions at my school said they want a 3.5+ SMP GPA but I don't know how strict they are about it. The program administrators and professors (we share some profs with the med school) also said the program was tougher than the 1st year of med school at our school because our school wants to prepare students for med schools all across the country and not just for the COM at our school.

I just finished my SMP yesterday and am waiting on final grades but will prob have a lower 3.x gpa. The program was really intense on top of some unfortunate circumstances that happened in my life. But I'm hoping that my undergrad gpa, mcat, and ecs will help my app. I also have some really good letters from profs I got to know who understood what I was dealing with. So let's see what happens. Best of luck to everyone!

 

[TheUPSIDEdown]

The med admissions at my school said they want a 3.5+ SMP GPA but I don't know how strict they are about it. The program administrators and professors (we share some profs with the med school) also said the program was tougher than the 1st year of med school at our school

When I had a conversation with one of my professors I mentioned that the medical students probably had harder curriculum she literally laughed out of her chair and said ours was way harder. That's why this 4.0 or McDonalds mentality doesn't add up to me. Which schools are you applying to lavlavs?

@Grace184 You make a good point and I agree with you. However, you mention that a B+ average is lower than the DO average which is true, but you're talking undergrad.

 

[GrapesofRath]

When I had a conversation with one of my professors I mentioned that the medical students probably had harder curriculum she literally laughed out of her chair and said ours was way harder. That's why this 4.0 or McDonalds mentality doesn't add up to me. Which schools are you applying to lavlavs?

@Grace184 You make a good point and I agree with you. However, you mention that a B+ average is lower than the DO average which is true, but you're talking undergrad.

LOL: The 4.0 or Mcdonald's mentality. Wish I had come up with that.

 

[Grace184]

When I had a conversation with one of my professors I mentioned that the medical students probably had harder curriculum she literally laughed out of her chair and said ours was way harder. That's why this 4.0 or McDonalds mentality doesn't add up to me. Which schools are you applying to lavlavs?

@Grace184 You make a good point and I agree with you. However, you mention that a B+ average is lower than the DO average which is true, but you're talking undergrad.

Yes I agree it's lower than undergrad matriculating (entering) grades (as I said) vs graduates of DO school, which is how a 3.23 SMP will be looked at, unfortunately. A messed up Grad gpa equivalent or lower to your counterparts who have taken high level science courses and done better in their undergrad GPAs. If you read other threads on this, it will tell you so- by adcom input.

 

[Eternal_Premed_Struggle]

Don't mean to be a downer but the average stats of a matriculating applicant from my SMP had a 3.7 grad gpa and 29 on the mcat.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

Don't mean to be a downer but the average stats of a matriculating applicant from my SMP had a 3.7 grad gpa and 29 on the mcat.

That average MCAT is a downer.

Here's the truth: AdComs are too busy to learn the different rigor and grading scales of every SMP. Even if the grading scale in program X is harsher than that in program Y, a person with a low average will, verbatim, hear "Your grades aren't as high as those from applicants who have done similar programs." It's your job to do well in school. It's your job to put yourself in a position to do well. It's your job to pick a school whose curriculum/grading scale puts in you in a position to do well.

 

[GrapesofRath]

That average MCAT is a downer.

Here's the truth: AdComs are too busy to learn the different rigor and grading scales of every SMP. Even if the grading scale in program X is harsher than that in program Y, a person with a low average will, verbatim, hear "Your grades aren't as high as those from applicants who have done similar programs." It's your job to do well in school. It's your job to put yourself in a position to do well. It's your job to pick a school whose curriculum/grading scale puts in you in a position to do well.

+1 and to build off this:

It's your job to also realize how risky SMPs are and the standards ADCOMs hold you to if you do them. Success is all that matters. Success whether it comes through a DIY post-bacc where you hand pick your classes and compete for grades with undergrads or success in SMPs where you have to beat out medical students is what is required. Doing below average, even if everybody in the class is a top student as is the case in med school, isn't an option.

You'll often hear on here how rigor of your undergrad matters alot less to ADCOMs than people think on here. Usually it's in the context of I went to a grade deflated school and my grades are lower. But the reverse is true as well to a large extent.

Of course a DIY post-bacc at your undergrad where you pick your own classes is easier than an SMP where you have to beat out med students. But guess what? Sucess is all that counts. If it comes through a DIY post-bacc doing upper level science classes, even if they were with classes you hand picked with professors you knew to be easy, it will still be of benefit to you if you have a year or two of acing that DIY post-bacc. As long as it is through upper level science classes and you are taking a solid workload, success is success. You can argue about the validity of it or whether it is the right way to do things, but if you are going to fork over the money and commitment an SMP involves, you should at least know how ADCOMs evaluate them.

 

[TheUPSIDEdown]

That average MCAT is a downer.

Here's the truth: AdComs are too busy to learn the different rigor and grading scales of every SMP. Even if the grading scale in program X is harsher than that in program Y, a person with a low average will, verbatim, hear "Your grades aren't as high as those from applicants who have done similar programs." It's your job to do well in school. It's your job to put yourself in a position to do well. It's your job to pick a school whose curriculum/grading scale puts in you in a position to do well.

I like the way you talk.

The only thing I have going for me is a couple of the schools I'm applying to have a notorious track record of accepting people from my program. Two of whom I know -- one had a better GPA in the program (A in histo instead of B+, everything else was the same), the other had a lower GPA with a C in the program. However, they both had higher ugGPAs, but both had lower MCATs......

Really I'm not worrying too much about it. I know the rigor of the program, how incredibly over prepared I feel for the MS1 curriculum, and what I've learned from it. If I'm not accepted this cycle I'll keep my head up, retake the MCAT, and get in next year.