Accepted! Should I Go, or Reapply?

[TheDaoDoughnut]

Hey everyone!

I just got accepted to Adelphi's PhD clinical psychology program. After taking into account their scholarship and Graduate Assistantship, I would have to take out around 40K to cover the cost of living and schooling.

I really like the faculty and the work they do there, but I have reservations about taking out loans and the effect of a school's reputation/training on future employment.

Can anyone shed light on this issue? Would it be more prudent to take time off maybe get published and increase my GRE scores before reapplying to more competitive schools?

Thank you
DAO

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[irish80122]

As I always ask my students, what do you want to do when you grow up? The answer may differ some depending on your career aspirations. Also, just to clarify, is the 40k total for your entire graduate career, or is it per year?

 

[psypipe]

Unless it's your absolute first choice and dream school, I would re-apply next year if I were you. I was accepted there and made the calculations. It will cost around 200,000 or more. Adelphi will cost more than 40 k per year if you take into account cost of living in Long Island unless you live frugally. I also want to mention that I love psychodynamic psychotherapy, and I loved the interview, but unless you are independently wealthy, the amount of debt you will have is concerning .

 

[MCParent]

It will cost around 200,000 or more.

That is a mind-boggling amount of debt. I thought OP meant 40k total, which is still awful but 200k is flat out insanity.

How on EARTH do those schools survive? Who can possibly see that much debt and think it is reasonable???

 

[deleted656923]

Unless it's your absolute first choice and dream school, I would re-apply next year if I were you. I was accepted there and made the calculations. It will cost around 200,000 or more. Adelphi will cost more than 40 k per year if you take into account cost of living in Long Island unless you live frugally. I also want to mention that I love psychodynamic psychotherapy, and I loved the interview, but unless you are independently wealthy, the amount of debt you will have is concerning .

Good Lord, that's nearly Medical School debt, and psychologists don't make nearly as much as physicians to pay off those kinds of loans o_o

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

How on EARTH do those schools survive?

1. They just keep raising tuition cost bc there will always be a plethora of, "I want to be a doctor no matter what" people out there.

2. Remember the housing bubble...well...new generation...new bubble.

Who can possibly see that much debt and think it is reasonable???

1. They ignore it.
2. See above.

 

[Wendi22]

Hey everyone!

I just got accepted to Adelphi's PhD clinical psychology program. After taking into account their scholarship and Graduate Assistantship, I would have to take out around 40K to cover the cost of living and schooling.

I really like the faculty and the work they do there, but I have reservations about taking out loans and the effect of a school's reputation/training on future employment.

Can anyone shed light on this issue? Would it be more prudent to take time off maybe get published and increase my GRE scores before reapplying to more competitive schools?

Thank you
DAO

I have literally walked in your shoes. I LOVED the program. I got into a few programs that cycle and Adelphi was my top choice and my dream school. But I could not ignore the money. If you sit down and Punch the numbers I think you will discover it will be very hard to pay that money back. There is a reason why they extend so many offers initially - it is because a lot of people have to turn the program down unless they are wealthy or at least have some kind of help. If you were going to have to pay it all on your own the program is not the right fit even though it is a great theoretical fit.

I turned it down and it was initially difficult but I have no regrets. In fact I'm surprised it took me so long....( it is so expensive and I would have been paying that money back for a very long time) but it is a really good program. Good luck with your decision and let me know if you have any questions about the money because I really did research it a lot when I was going through the same thing you are.

 

[psypipe]

That is a mind-boggling amount of debt. I thought OP meant 40k total, which is still awful but 200k is flat out insanity.

How on EARTH do those schools survive? Who can possibly see that much debt and think it is reasonable???

...

 

[Wendi22]

Well, it's the NYC/Long Island area and there are a lot of wealthy people around that area plus there are students willing to take out loans to stay near the NYC area. Adelphi is a strong program if you want to practice in the NYC area, if you envision a career in psychodynamic type research, if you are extremely fascinated by psychodynamics and if you have money. If you wanted to practice outside the NYC area or outside the northeast were psychology is less psychodynamic it is not a good choice, particularly if you are going to take out loans.

Exactly...there were many wealthy people accepted into the program when I was considering going there and the money is not a problem for them.

 

[MCParent]

2. Remember the housing bubble...well...new generation...new bubble.

I guess that's a good analogy, though the people who bought houses 0 down are just as insane. It's just unfathomable to me. We need to have SWAT teams use those music blaster speakers to blast the Dave Ramsay show at those folks. Wow.

I can't believe they're all/mostly rich. Rich people don't get rich by blowing $200k on things like that.

 

[WisNeuro]

I can't believe they're all/mostly rich. Rich people don't get rich by blowing $200k on things like that.

Rich people also don't tend to choose careers where the median salary is under 6 figures. I agree, maybe some have family money, but most are likely people just making terrible life decisions.

 

[TheDaoDoughnut]

Unless it's your absolute first choice and dream school, I would re-apply next year if I were you. I was accepted there and made the calculations. It will cost around 200,000 or more. Adelphi will cost more than 40 k per year if you take into account cost of living in Long Island unless you live frugally. I also want to mention that I love psychodynamic psychotherapy, and I loved the interview, but unless you are independently wealthy, the amount of debt you will have is concerning .

That is a mind-boggling amount of debt. I thought OP meant 40k total, which is still awful but 200k is flat out insanity.

How on EARTH do those schools survive? Who can possibly see that much debt and think it is reasonable???

Good Lord, that's nearly Medical School debt, and psychologists don't make nearly as much as physicians to pay off those kinds of loans o_o

I would only need to take out 40K-45K total! I live locally and I live at home with parents. I am getting significant funding for my minority status and my family will be able to cover 40K worth of expenses. For the 5 years it will cost us around 80K-90K total, which I am responsible for half. I love Adelphi and psychodynamic therapy. I should have clarified; I would not have considered this school if I was responsible for 200K debt, but 40K-45K is more reasonable considering I get to live at home and I still have money in the bank from previous employment!

I need to let them know by tomorrow. Please respond!

 

[Wendi22]

I would only need to take out 40K-45K total! I live locally and I live at home with parents. I am getting significant funding for my minority status and my family will be able to cover 40K worth of expenses. For the 5 years it will cost us around 80K-90K total, which I am responsible for half. I love Adelphi and psychodynamic therapy. I should have clarified; I would not have considered this school if I was responsible for 200K debt, but 40K-45K is more reasonable considering I get to live at home and I still have money in the bank from previous employment!

I need to let them know by tomorrow. Please respond!

Like I mentioned I ended up turning them down and reapplying and I will mention that I don't plan on taking out any student loans for the program I will be attending in the fall. You are for sure in a much better situation than I was but now with my fully funded program I'm not sure that I would take out even 45 to 50k after learning about interest rates and more about the field in general. But this is really a personal decision and you have to decide if it feels right for you. For me at the end of the day I wrestled with the money ALOT and that in itself let me know that it was not the right choice for me.... Again I would've been taking out a whole lot more than you. You are very fortunate to have money from your parents coupled with better funding. I would calculate the money and the monthly payment and look at it carefully. One last piece of advice is to just remember that life happens and to have back up plans for financial circumstances.

 

[futureapppsy2]

IMO, $40-50k is on the edge of the "acceptable debt" spectrum for me. I don't think it would be a crushing amount, but it might be a bit of a burden to pay off and could limit your options straight out of grad school. Do you plan to stay in the NYC area?

 

[TheDaoDoughnut]

Like I mentioned I ended up turning them down and reapplying and I will mention that I don't plan on taking out any student loans for the program I will be attending in the fall. You are for sure in a much better situation than I was but now with my fully funded program I'm not sure that I would take out even 45 to 50k after learning about interest rates and more about the field in general. But this is really a personal decision and you have to decide if it feels right for you. For me at the end of the day I wrestled with the money ALOT and that in itself let me know that it was not the right choice for me.... Again I would've been taking out a whole lot more than you. You are very fortunate to have money from your parents coupled with better funding. I would calculate the money and the monthly payment and look at it carefully. One last piece of advice is to just remember that life happens and to have back up plans for financial circumstances.

Thank you for your input. I am stuck between a "sure thing" now and taking the risk of not attending to develop my CV. I will weight the options carefully, but I think I am going to take the offer.

IMO, $40-50k is on the edge of the "acceptable debt" spectrum for me. I don't think it would be a crushing amount, but it might be a bit of a burden to pay off and could limit your options straight out of grad school. Do you plan to stay in the NYC area?

I do plan on staying in the NYC area (probably Staten Island or maybe Long Island or New Jersey). I agree that the 40-50K is right on the edge of acceptable. I have friends who graduated from undergrad with that much debt and they are not struggling to pay it back. My total monthly payment after graduating would be $660 per month for 10 years. This seems feasible considering I live frugally already and currently have no debt.

Thanks again everyone! Keep the input coming!

 

[Wendi22]

Thank you for your input. I am stuck between a "sure thing" now and taking the risk of not attending to develop my CV. I will weight the options carefully, but I think I am going to take the offer.



I do plan on staying in the NYC area (probably Staten Island or maybe Long Island or New Jersey). I agree that the 40-50K is right on the edge of acceptable. I have friends who graduated from undergrad with that much debt and they are not struggling to pay it back. My total monthly payment after graduating would be $660 per month for 10 years. This seems feasible considering I live frugally already and currently have no debt.

Thanks again everyone! Keep the input coming!

EDIT:READ COMMENTS ABOVE REGARDING IMPORTANCE OF CONSIDERING COST OF PROGRAM...THIS IS SIMPLY A RESPONSE

As long as your calculated it and are good with it and you know for sure that you want to go there then I think you would be OK. The fact that your parents are willing to help let me know you have some financial backing. It's just about asking yourself if you're sure it's the school for you and the one that you really want. If the answer is yes then go for it.

 

[MCParent]

It's just about asking yourself if you're sure it's the school for you and the one that you really want. If the answer is yes then go for it.

Decisions about education are decisions about finances. Too often on the board and elsewhere people get urged to "go with their heart" or whatever, and that's snowflakey nonsense. Feelings of attachment toward a university because it's "the one for you" are irrational.

 

[Wendi22]

Decisions about education are decisions about finances. Too often on the board and elsewhere people get urged to "go with their heart" or whatever, and that's snowflakey nonsense. Feelings of attachment toward a university because it's "the one for you" are irrational.

I think you need to read my previous posts to this person. As well as the other post on this thread. I asked about the person's finances and we also have a private conversation going as well. That comment was merely a last response to the original posters last comment to me and not the totality of my advice to him or her. No one told this person to simply "go with a gut feeling" and forget money. I am sure it is easy to pluck out a sentence and use it for some point you want to make about this site but that is not what happened here. And I disagree with you that it is all about finances but also finances were discussed in other comments and I think you should go back and read my other comments because I did not just give snowflake advice.

 

[Wendi22]

Decisions about education are decisions about finances. Too often on the board and elsewhere people get urged to "go with their heart" or whatever, and that's snowflakey nonsense. Feelings of attachment toward a university because it's "the one for you" are irrational.

I simply ask that you get the totality of the conversation before being rude.

 

[TheDaoDoughnut]

Decisions about education are decisions about finances. Too often on the board and elsewhere people get urged to "go with their heart" or whatever, and that's snowflakey nonsense. Feelings of attachment toward a university because it's "the one for you" are irrational.

Speaking rationally, a $600-700 a month payment for 10 years after graduation seems feasible. It is not ideal, but I am guaranteed the funding and the position and I will complete schooling at 27 years of age. I have a strong support system and a partner who can help emotionally and financially down the road. Again, it is not ideal, but I absolutely love the program and I am absolutely passionate about depth psychology.

Thank you for your input!

 

[Wendi22]

Speaking rationally, a $600-700 a month payment for 10 years after graduation seems feasible. It is not ideal, but I am guaranteed the funding and the position and I will complete schooling at 27 years of age. I have a strong support system and a partner who can help emotionally and financially down the road. Again, it is not ideal, but I absolutely love the program and I am absolutely passionate about depth psychology.

Thank you for your input!

And it's not irrational to feel passionate .....

 

[psypipe]

Speaking rationally, a $600-700 a month payment for 10 years after graduation seems feasible. It is not ideal, but I am guaranteed the funding and the position and I will complete schooling at 27 years of age. I have a strong support system and a partner who can help emotionally and financially down the road. Again, it is not ideal, but I absolutely love the program and I am absolutely passionate about depth psychology.

Thank you for your input!

If that's the case then I would go for it because IMO a 50,000 total debt is not that bad, and if you are passionate about psychodynamic psychology then I could not imagine a better program.

 

[MCParent]

Speaking rationally, a $600-700 a month payment for 10 years after graduation seems feasible. It is not ideal, but I am guaranteed the funding and the position and I will complete schooling at 27 years of age. I have a strong support system and a partner who can help emotionally and financially down the road. Again, it is not ideal, but I absolutely love the program and I am absolutely passionate about depth psychology.

Thank you for your input!

You have a plan, which is good. But this plan still costs much more than the $40k in debt you're incurring. You're taking on an opportunity cost of using the parental funding for this instead of for a down payment on a house, for their retirement, etc.

 

[LauraH8214]

Decisions about education are decisions about finances. Too often on the board and elsewhere people get urged to "go with their heart" or whatever, and that's snowflakey nonsense. Feelings of attachment toward a university because it's "the one for you" are irrational.

Wow your response is way out of context. Maybe you and the person that liked this comment should make a plan to read before you respond.

 

[LauraH8214]

OP...Just to clarify, your parents are giving the money to pay for the school because they know that school is expensive correct? They are not giving you 50k for you to choose how to spend it such as on a down payment on a house. Because that would mean it is not using parental funding for school instead of those things. I would also agree that it is not only about money and to pick a school you like. Seems ridiculous to spend several years at a school you do not feel some type of attachment for.

 

[MCParent]

OP...Just to clarify, your parents are giving the money to pay for the school because they know that school is expensive correct? They are not giving you 50k for you to choose how to spend it such as on a down payment on a house. Because that would mean it is not using parental funding for school instead of those things. I would also agree that it is not only about money and to pick a school you like. Seems ridiculous to spend several years at a school you do not feel some type of attachment for.

....that's not really how money works.....

 

[LauraH8214]

.........MCparent ....I am asking a simple question to the OP about the financial situation. Nothing in my comment says how money works. I understand you do things a certain way and that is okay but lets have some cognitive flexibility here. Many people have taken out the type of money this person is talking about and are happy. They are financially fine and even if it was not the absolute BEST financial choice they could have made (I know you won't agree) but that is okay. It is about being financially responsible. This thread is about helping this person make a choice right for him or her. Things are not black and white. It is fine that you have your opinions but let others post theirs also without ridicule from you. Some people like to get a more holistic view of things and more than just your strong opinion.

 

[smalltownpsych]

If I had taken out only 40k in loans, then I would have paid it off last year, and what would I do with the 20k I'm getting this year for the NHSC LRP? If you do decide to take out loans, make sure to take the low interest, subsidized loans so you can defer the heck out of them without them growing much until you are making good money or in a loan repayment program. Oh, and if you take another year, that would be one more year added to the time till you will be working as a licensed psychologist. How much will that cost you? I was making about 20k before doctoral program and am making quite a few multiples of that now. Heck, I pay more than that in taxes.

 

[MAClinician]

Federal loans are no longer subsidized for graduate students. Borrowers either pay the interest while in school or defer until finished where all the interest gets tacked on at the end, and then interest is accruing on the larger amount when you start paying off the loan. OP might initially take out $50k but by the time of degree granted that number could jump significantly. Not sure if that $600/mo payment takes that into account. Also, 3 of my classmates who were married at the start of grad school ended up divorced by the end of the program (2 by the end of year 2!). Having a partner now at the age of 22 does not guarantee a partner at the age of 27 when completed with the degree. Just something to think about...

 

[ClinicalABA]

Just be aware of effects of compound interest. 40k at 6% paid back over 20 years translates to about 70k total payback, and ~300 per month. That is a non-trivial amount that you will notice. It'll take you a few years to get that career up and running and that salary coming in. I just worry about the posters who say that is not a lot of debt. It is, and should be incurred with appropriate respect and caution.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Speaking rationally, a $600-700 a month payment for 10 years after graduation seems feasible. It is not ideal, but I am guaranteed the funding and the position and I will complete schooling at 27 years of age. I have a strong support system and a partner who can help emotionally and financially down the road. Again, it is not ideal, but I absolutely love the program and I am absolutely passionate about depth psychology.

Thank you for your input!

600-700 dollars a month is not a easily feasible income. Consider that many psychologists make 60k or under (pre-tax), you are devoting 1/6th of post-tax income to pay loans. Now add in housing, car payment or savings, retirement. The end of investment is a degree from a university with a history of lower than desired match rates (10-80%), suggesting your 'graduate by 27' may be missed (1/4-1/5 chances) resulting in increased debt. Keep in mind there are no subsidies. If your UG friends tell you they are paying 700/month back easily, they are either fibbing or in a field very different from psych with regard to earning potential.

What you do is up to you, but to dismiss debt of 40k outright is foolish. Especially given how many people in the field emphasize this as an important area to consider given long term earning potential.

 

[LauraH8214]

Just to clarify for the OP...although I think very few on here are saying that is a small amount of debt/ most posters seem to be advising caution..., it is foolish not to consider the money and to not understand the impact it will have on your life. I am certainly not advising someone to take out that kind of money and I completely agree with the posters above regarding interest rates...I think they are a little over 6% for grad loans. So this is not something I would necessarily do. BUT we are talking about someone else and trying to help them. I think it is also foolish to make major life choices based on money alone or anecdotal advice. So I would make this decision holistically and I try to avoid giving blanket advice about something that could impact someone to a large degree. Seems best to ask questions and look at things from different perspectives.

 

[WisNeuro]

Plenty of fully funded programs out there that will train psychodynamic clinicians and do dynamic research. It's just not necessary to take out loans to that degree.

 

[Lurking Oracle]

Plenty of fully funded programs out there that will train psychodynamic clinicians and do dynamic research. It's just not necessary to take out loans to that degree.

Yes, University of Michigan's clinical program comes to mind. No, Ann Arbor is not NYC, but it is a great town and aircraft are allowed to fly between DTW and NYC's many airports!

 

[LauraH8214]

Yes, University of Michigan's clinical program comes to mind. No, Ann Arbor is not NYC, but it is a great town and aircraft are allowed to fly between DTW and NYC's many airports!

Very true there are plenty of funded programs and this is one. However, University of Michigan has a 2% acceptance rate, meaning many of the very qualified applicants who apply each year get turned down. Therefore, individuals with high stats end up applying to tons of schools hoping one will be a good fit. I do not say this to debate in anyway but to point out that finding a funded psychodynamic program and getting accepted is a challenge in itself that should not be portrayed as easy.

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't think anyone portrays the process as easy. I think most are dispelling the myth that there is usually only one way to get a certain type of experience. Especially when that certain type of experience comes with a price tag well over 6 figures. In this case, we're talking about dynamic therapy and research experience, where there is a notion that one can only obtain this in NYC. That is simply not true as there are pockets of programs across the US with such offerings that also happen to provide full funding for their students.

 

[LauraH8214]

I don't think anyone portrays the process as easy. I think most are dispelling the myth that there is usually only one way to get a certain type of experience. Especially when that certain type of experience comes with a price tag well over 6 figures. In this case, we're talking about dynamic therapy and research experience, where there is a notion that one can only obtain this in NYC. That is simply not true as there are pockets of programs across the US with such offerings that also happen to provide full funding for their students.

Actually the poster mentioned that they will have funding and help from parents and mentioned a debt of under 6 figures. It has not been clarified by the OP whether or not the estimate includes interest or not but pretty sure in this particular case we are not talking well over 6 figures. I still would not be willing to take out the estimate he or she mentioned but I am just pointing that out. OP also mentioned a desire to live with parents in NYC so I think it is less about he or she thinking NYC is the only area that psychodynamic training can be found and more about trying to live with family. So in this case we are talking about an individual already in NYC wanting to live with family while he or she attends this psychodynamic school. I agree there are other options but just important to know the situation well since you said it is about dispelling the myth

 

[Justanothergrad]

Going to a training program to get a certain theoretical experience while incurring a reasonably hefty debt (aka, just the of the field median including psyd which substantially inflate that) and getting sub-par training with poor outcome predictions (aka, internship match) seems like poor life balance to strive for. Especially considering when estimates of the repayment suggest an income of 90k as needed, despite that being not very likely given median earning income for psychologists in the country (closer to 60-65 starting). Its their choice, but its not a choice that I believe should be encouraged given all this information.

http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2013/11/debt.aspx

My belief is that justifying choices and systems than allow this does more to undercut the quality of our profession and does a major disservice to students entering the field.

 

[WisNeuro]

Actually the poster mentioned that they will have funding and help from parents and mentioned a debt of under 6 figures. It has not been clarified by the OP whether or not the estimate includes interest or not but pretty sure in this particular case we are not talking well over 6 figures. I still would not be willing to take out the estimate he or she mentioned but I am just pointing that out. OP also mentioned a desire to live with parents in NYC so I think it is less about he or she thinking NYC is the only area that psychodynamic training can be found and more about trying to live with family. So in this case we are talking about an individual already in NYC wanting to live with family while he or she attends this psychodynamic school. I agree there are other options but just important to know the situation well since you said it is about dispelling the myth

Someone is still paying the tab, it is still well over 6 figures no matter what way you look at it. Money that is probably much better spent on investments and savings rather than overpriced education when there are many alternatives for far less. May provide advice here that pertains to the OP of the thread as well as a broader audience considering some people actually take the time to search prior threads before querying. Hence the attempt to dispel myths.

 

[MCParent]

Someone is still paying the tab, it is still well over 6 figures no matter what way you look at it.

This is the piece that I'm not seeing be well-understood, here and elsewhere.

 

[LauraH8214]

Someone is still paying the tab, it is still well over 6 figures no matter what way you look at it. Money that is probably much better spent on investments and savings rather than overpriced education when there are many alternatives for far less. May provide advice here that pertains to the OP of the thread as well as a broader audience considering some people actually take the time to search prior threads before querying. Hence the attempt to dispel myths.

At this point, I have to agree with what others have said about this site. Which is that it is filled with a few frequent posters with strong opinions and an inability to step in the other persons shoes and try to look at things from his or her perspective. Any statement about money that is anything other than DO NOT DO IT is viewed as wrong and encouraging (?) the individual to take out loads of debt. Simply trying to gain information from the individual is okay and makes them feel more helped than just writing about how stupid taking out the money would be. Not sure why some people even come on here if they think discussing things is wrong. I am not sure why we even let people post questions about money on here because the same people will just go after any statement that is not worded as strongly as theirs. They think giving the same unspecified advice as rudely as possible is best.
EDIT: MCparent yes there are examples on this site of you phrasing things rudely that if I cared enough I would pull for you and put before you...but I am sure you could just scroll upward and see at least one personal attack. I know the difference it is you that does not. Also pretty sure its completely obvious to the OP that the total cost of the program is not 40k..why else would he he or she come on here and post in the first place for advice...goodness. Thank you for clearing up the obvious

No need to reply to this comment as this is not why I joined this site and do not wish to return.
...but I will wrap things up real fast for you OP ..your deadline is today and you should not take out the money because that would be careless and you should move on and start racking up research and up those GRE scores for next year. okay we have been helpful here

 

[MCParent]

Disagreeing with you is not rudeness. Someone having a different opinion from you is not a personal attack.

$40k is actually not AWFUL debt (it is above the median but below the mean for PhDs in psych, an would place someone in the company of most grad students: http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2015Part3.aspx). What I and others were trying to communicate is that the cost of the program is NOT $40k.

 

[Peacemaker36]

If the OP intends to be in private practice, and is living near NYC, it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which paying back $40-50K is difficult. I suppose it is possible that the OP turns out to be incapable of running a moderately successful private practice. Am I missing something?

My take on Adelphi's reputation is that it provides excellent psychodynamic training.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's just a cycle, any time facts and real world considerations clash with the puppy dog and fairytale worldview, it's rude. We're used to it. I think we even have a shirt design these days.

 

[LauraH8214]

If the OP intends to be in private practice, and is living near NYC, it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which paying back $40-50K is difficult. I suppose it is possible that the OP turns out to be incapable of running a moderately successful private practice. Am I missing something?

My take on Adelphi's reputation is that it provides excellent psychodynamic training.

That is puppy dog talk of you to ask such a question

 

[deleted656923]

It's just a cycle, any time facts and real world considerations clash with the puppy dog and fairytale worldview, it's rude. We're used to it. I think we even have a shirt design these days.

I want to down-vote this comment x 1000. It's an arrogant, callous worldview that leads to stagnation and isolation.

At this point, I have to agree with what others have said about this site. Which is that it is filled with a few frequent posters with strong opinions and an inability to step in the other persons shoes and try to look at things from his or her perspective.

Preach it, sister!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If the OP intends to be in private practice, and is living near NYC, it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which paying back $40-50K is difficult. I suppose it is possible that the OP turns out to be incapable of running a moderately successful private practice. Am I missing something?

Yes. It is a common misconception. Real quick before my next mtg...

1. NYC/Tri-State is one of the most competitive regions in the country.
2. Fresh out w. a degree v. tens of thousands of other therapists (non-psych, mid levels, etc) with more experience. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the first 2-3+ yrs are probably going to be tough, at best.
3. Overhead is a lot more than you realize. Rent, security deposit, multi-yr contract is normal. Office furniture, records management software, etc. On average, a clinician will have to work longer hours and see more patients as compared to somewhere with a lower cost of living. NYC pricing
4. Paying back $40k-$50k doesn't sound too hard until you factor in start-up costs to a PP, getting on insurance panels, delays in positive cash flow, etc.
5. 50% of small businesses fail within 5yr. The avg psych practice takes ~2yr to build up. Doctoral programs don't teach a lick about running a business.
6. Everyone thinks they will be the exception and will breeze into a cash pay PP.
7. $150hr x 8hr x 5 days = $6,000/wk, for 48wk..$288k! It's not that simple.

It probably comes off as harsh, but students need to understand that they'll probably get kicked in the face by reality if they think they can come out w. their degree, hang a shingle, and wait for their schedules to fill up w. cash pay patients.

/rain on the parade

-a guy who's gotten paid to teach this stuff

 

[Lurking Oracle]

Very true there are plenty of funded programs and this is one. However, University of Michigan has a 2% acceptance rate, meaning many of the very qualified applicants who apply each year get turned down. Therefore, individuals with high stats end up applying to tons of schools hoping one will be a good fit. I do not say this to debate in anyway but to point out that finding a funded psychodynamic program and getting accepted is a challenge in itself that should not be portrayed as easy.

I fear that you are misunderstanding my post. I neither stated nor implied that any of this was easy. And, no, it should NOT be easy. I happen to take training in human behavioral health very seriously, as do many on SDN that are incorrectly called rude or rigid, and I intend to continue to endorse and support the highest of standards in order to protect our consumers. FYI - our consumers are the patients/clients, not the aspiring clinicians who seemingly only long to be called "doctor," and who also seem to not want to venture more than ten miles from their place of birth.

 

[Lurking Oracle]

That is a mind-boggling amount of debt. I thought OP meant 40k total, which is still awful but 200k is flat out insanity.

How on EARTH do those schools survive? Who can possibly see that much debt and think it is reasonable???

Unfortunately, there's a heckuva lot of people within a 20 to 30-min train ride that will borrow or hit up family for whatever it takes to be called "DAHK-Tah."

 

[LauraH8214]

Unfortunately, there's a heckuva lot of people within a 20 to 30-min train ride that will borrow or hit up family for whatever it takes to be called "DAHK-Tah."

You need to go back and read the entire thread because you are misunderstanding all types of stuff. It is unfair to lump this person into the group of people just wanting to be called doctor. So no this is not a standards issue in this case. Adelphi is a good program and some people have the means to pay for it without a problem. I know because I happen to know many of them. Please just stop generalizing.