Anyway to get past this international status!?!?

[FishyTheFish]

I've lived in the United States for most of my life (~17 years), and am currently attending a US Undergrad and have a house here as well. However I possess the citizenship of a different country. Is there any way I could be considered a permanent resident and not an international student?

If I am considered international, how much of a disadvantage do I have when applying to top medical schools? Obviously I won't get any financial aid and I'll have to pay the sticker price, but will it hinder me in admissions?

Also do international students get compared for admission only with other internationals, or do they have to compete with US applicants too?

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[sirenomelia]

If you plan to work here than why dont you become a citizen?

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Do you have a green card after living here for so long? If so, you are a US permanent resident and are NOT considered an international applicant. it doesn't matter that you possess another citizenship as long as you are a permanent resident, from what I understand.

 

[Danlee07]

If you're trying to become a permanent resident and hold a green card, you better start this asap and find a host who will sponsor you. It takes about 5 years for the whole process of citizenship, from processing to green card to the actual ceremony (since you're over 18+)

And I'm sure your international status will put you at a disadvantage. Educating Americans to retain them for future domestic service is the goal.

 

[FishyTheFish]

If you plan to work here than why dont you become a citizen?

I would become a citizen if I could but I don't think there is a direct way to simply apply for a citizenship. One other way to get a citizenship would be to marry an American citizen, but I find marrying just for a citizenship unethical, and I plan to marry for love.

Do you have a green card after living here for so long? If so, you are a US permanent resident and are NOT considered an international applicant. it doesn't matter that you possess another citizenship as long as you are a permanent resident, from what I understand.

I do NOT have a green card. I'm on an H1-B visa, and that visa has some serious restrictions, one being that I'm not allowed to work..

I looked at Yale's admission statistics. The acceptance rate for total applicants is around 6%, whereas for international students it's 4%. So now the important question is: are international students compared against domestic students?

 

[KLycos]

I would honestly call a couple admissions departments for schools in your range and ask them. You are going to get a really good answer that you can trust vs speculation from kids sitting at their computers.

 

[johnisles2011]

The best way to get around this is to become a citizen. Have you done your homework on this?
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=8e5ca7682e319210VgnVCM10000025e6a00aRCRD

Click on the eligibility worksheet as a starting point.

 

[FattySlug]

H1-B visa is for foreign worker. What do you mean you are not allowed to work? If you are in undergrad you must have an F1 visa. That's the only visa an international student has.

Living here for a long time does not get you a green card. You must work after graduation for some company that has the ability to sponsor your green card. The competition to get jobs at those companies are pretty stiff.

The second and faster option is to get married to an American citizen.

Edit: The road to becoming citizen is really long and hard. I was an immigrant for many years and it was second class citizenship.

 

[LizzyM]

Let me see if I understand. You've been living in the US because your parent is a foreign national who works in the US under an H1 visa.

My experience in a top tier, private school is that we pay no attention to visa status when reviewing applications. You will need an F1 visa, if I understand this correctly, when you become a med student (I'm surprised you didn't need to convert to F1 visa to become a full-time college student). Financial aid might be available from the school and that will factor into whatever you must show in terms of funds available to pay for the first year of education.

You will be up against all applicants, not just internationals.

I want to add that the proportion of international applicants who matriculate might be a reflection of the poor language skills demonstrated at interview by some international applicants. Given your long tenure in the US, I expect that you will not have that issue, OP.

 

[kduck]

I would become a citizen if I could but I don't think there is a direct way to simply apply for a citizenship. One other way to get a citizenship would be to marry an American citizen, but I find marrying just for a citizenship unethical, and I plan to marry for love.

Not to mention seriously illegal...

 

[Danlee07]

Yeah, there isn't a direct way of applying, but ask if your parents know a sponsor... and the sponsor can be a relative or their work place.

 

[GS Mikami]

Let me see if I understand. You've been living in the US because your parent is a foreign national who works in the US under an H1 visa.

My experience in a top tier, private school is that we pay no attention to visa status when reviewing applications. You will need an F1 visa, if I understand this correctly, when you become a med student (I'm surprised you didn't need to convert to F1 visa to become a full-time college student). Financial aid might be available from the school and that will factor into whatever you must show in terms of funds available to pay for the first year of education.

You will be up against all applicants, not just internationals.

I want to add that the proportion of international applicants who matriculate might be a reflection of the poor language skills demonstrated at interview by some international applicants. Given your long tenure in the US, I expect that you will not have that issue, OP.

This is the answer OP.

You're only going to be limited by your status when you apply to public schools.

The main issue you may encounter is that it is really expensive to pay for medical school as an int' student.

I'm an international student and I didn't experience any discrimination/difficulties whatsoever in my application cycle.

Good Luck!

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[shoeshopper21]

And a quick link: http://www.naahp.org/Default.aspx?tabid=2559

 

[Quaero]

I want to believe that it's harder for internationals (F-1/ non-LPR, non-citizen) to get an acceptance at a US medical school, so I can explain why I'm on hold at certain places.

But I know it's possible, if you have enough opportunity, and money to pay all those secondaries. Of course, this applies to all applicants.

Please see
International Students who have made it to US Medical Schools
International student?!

 

[LizzyM]

Um.. as far medical schools are concerned, I have spoken to about 20+ schools (directly to the admissions/admins and sometimes even to the dean--well at least of the medical school in my state) and they all stated that they require a PR or citizenship to be matriculated and out of the 20, only 5 stated that they accept international students but one of them outright mentioned that preference is given to in-state students first, and then PR/citizens of US and then international students-- and the low stats at other schools of international students seems to reiterate the same point. Furthermore, many of these international students are Canadian students who aren't able to get in in one of the medical schools in their country, and I highly doubt these students aren't fluent in English (not trying to be mean here to the lady, I promise!). If there is a school I missed where your PR/Citizenship doesn't matter PLEASE enlighten me because I could really use this info right now!

I was suggesting that the (low) proportion of international students in medical school is, in part, related to poor English language skills among applicants from non-English speaking countries. (Some come here for college and wish to stay for med school.)


Anyway, your link provides the information you seek. I saw a number of schools there from Dartmouth, Harvard & Hopkins to Rosalyn Franklin and St. Louis U. and many others.

 

[Chrome19]

Shoeshopper21, I don't like the way you are thinking. History has shown us that success and achievement are sometimes met with seemingly insurmountable barriers that were later overcome with persistence and a dose of hope and optimism. If you really see yourself as someone wanting to make a significant change in human history, then you will most likely encounter situations like this, even in biomedical research. So being defeatist at the what seems impossible isn't the ideal mental state to make an impact. While this is no guarantee of success, a positive and mentally-tough approach will make your attack of the problem more focused and help you endure and stick with your attack, a method more likely to yield a positive outcome.

Admission to medical school as an international student is one of these seemingly impossible issues, but it happens. There are international students (some even non-Canadian) that have received admission with sub-30 MCATs, and they didn't save world. And no matter what people say, I do believe there is a slight "bias" against international students. It also appears Canadians are "preferred" international students. Regardless, the average MCAT of international students who matriculated to medical school last year (or the one before) was 33 with a standard deviation of 4. So this means, assuming a normal distribution, 65% of international matriculating international students had MCATs ranging from 29-37, and 95% ranged from 25-43. I don't think mean GPAs were over 3.7/3.8, either. So you clearly don't need a 4.0 and 40 MCAT. There's an exceptional case of a Caribbean international student (from SDN post history) who got a $40K/yr scholarship to Northwestern with 25 MCAT and 3.5 GPA.

For example, I figuratively shot myself in the foot by applying about the deadline. I explained my situation to some schools before I submitted my AMCAS and some told me not to even bother applying as I was too late (Northwestern and Case). Some told me, just apply early next year and you'll have a much better shot with your numbers. I applied anyways (12 schools), and still received 5 interviews with a 1 waitlist at a top 20 where I blew an interview, a waitlist at a top 30 and at an acceptance at a unranked school that explicitly told me: "We have very limited seats for internationals." I applied with a 33Q (9 on the verbal)/3.9 GPA. I know an international (non-Canadian) accepted at a top 20 with a sub-30 MCAT this cycle, a place where some of my US-citizen friends and I were rejected without interview. There also internationals here on SDN who applied (early of course ) and were successful, some just as successful as US citizens.

It's hard but not impossible.

 

[togirl]

.... Furthermore, many of these international students are Canadian students who aren't able to get in in one of the medical schools in their country, and I highly doubt these students aren't fluent in English (not trying to be mean here to the lady, I promise!). If there is a school I missed where your PR/Citizenship doesn't matter PLEASE enlighten me because I could really use this info right now!

Several top-tier schools are citizenship neutral.

 

[candav]

I know this thread is kinda old but I will be completely straight and honest with you. You can NOT get into ANY U.S. Medical School (MD..not sure about DO) without a Permanent Resident or Citizenship status. The only two ways to get a PR/Citizenship is through work (sponsorship) or marriage. Marriage is out of the questions unless you've been dating someone who's a citizen and can pull it off as legitimate. The fact that you've even posted this thread and that it can be tracked back to you makes it even more risky and of course, illegal. If you're caught you're going to be deported and will forfeit a chance of ever becoming a citizen. As far as sponorship through work goes, good luck with that!! Not only is it incredibly hard to get sponsored because the company must first place an AD for the position and PROVE to the government that there is no one in the U.S. that fill the role they are seeking you for, and that's why they want to get you a PR status. My mom applied for her and my PR through work (and she could apply for me cause I was still under 18 and considered a dependent) back in 2004. The cutoff date is 2002 for the current files in the Homeland office. According to our very trusty and incredibly knowledgable immigration lawyer, it would be another 5-6+ years for us to get our PR's and because with the change of the gov't (if it happens) the immigration is not a issue, the backlog of files is going to stay.

Why do I know this? Because I am a senior at an undergrad institution and I found out during my application process to medical schools last year that unless I can provide proof of my PR, they will NOT accept me. The closest one school got was that they said they would accept a document stating that my PR card is in the mail as the proof but nothing less. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but after going through numerous advisors at my undergrad institution, I can tell you that most advisors (teachers, fin aid, graduate/undergraduate advisors) are literally clueless about the shades of gray when it comes to immigrant students. I had to go through multiple rounds of talk with my immigration lawyer and my school's financial aid advisor to clear up the misunderstanding that as a DEPENDANT student of an H-1B worker, I do NOT need an F-1 visa to go to a school in U.S. and that there really is such a thing as "in between change of statuses" that can last anywhere from a few months to a many years (5 years and still going in my case). And don't even get me started on how crappy DMV is when it gets to renewing your driver's license.

Anyway, back your post, even the very few schools that do accept international students-- you'd better have a 4.0 GPA and 40+ on MCAT to stand a chance. It's next to impossible to get in as international students. Think of it this way-- you're LITERALLY competing with the rest of the world for 1 or 2 (or 3..I'm being generous with 3) spots in the entire entering class. And you'd better have a solid answer when they ask "Why should we chose you over current residents of USA?".. heck even PR card holders get asked why should they be given a spot in the class when there are US citizens who could potentially use that same spots? You'd have to be a genius (literally) to be granted a spot at these schools.

I really have no clue what to tell you except to say that I am in the same predicament as you and it absolutely sucks balls. Your only option is to go to Caribbean medical schools or get your masters/Ph.d/or work until you can get that nice little PR card. Or marriage.. but then again if you get caught you are seriously jeopardizing your entire career.

EDIT: Fortunately for me, my boyfriend and I have been dating for over 4 years and we've casually mentioned marriage before so we *may* get married but then again, I am like you and I want to make 100% sure that he is the ONE for me. My current course of plan includes completing my masters/Ph.D and getting some research out of the way and then applying to medical schools. I have numerous friends who are in medical school now who took a couple of years off (most took 3-4 years off) and are now successful residents.

This post is not very nice, because it's not very true. OP, I am a Canadian citizen who applied only to "top" American schools...I did not have a 4.0 and my MCAT is far below 40. And I attended quite a few interviews and was never asked to justify why I should be selected over the American candidates. Believe me, there are many (generally private) schools out there that will consider you, and that will treat you in a similar manner as a domestic applicant.

As far as a "preference" for Canadians over other internationals, I'm not sure I've seen anything of this nature, nor would I expect to...

 

[lxz]

This post is not very nice, because it's not very true. OP, I am a Canadian citizen who applied only to "top" American schools...I did not have a 4.0 and my MCAT is far below 40. And I attended quite a few interviews and was never asked to justify why I should be selected over the American candidates. Believe me, there are many (generally private) schools out there that will consider you, and that will treat you in a similar manner as a domestic applicant.

As far as a "preference" for Canadians over other internationals, I'm not sure I've seen anything of this nature, nor would I expect to...

Canadians are indeed favored over other int'ls. Some schools only consider Canadians for the int'l category. On my interview trail, all int'l interviewees I met were Canadians (while I'm not).

 

[candav]

Canadians are indeed favored over other int'ls. Some schools only consider Canadians for the int'l category. On my interview trail, all int'l interviewees I met were Canadians (while I'm not).

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. None of the schools I applied to had that requirement, to my knowledge. I know most schools require applicants to have completed college in the US and Canada, which automatically excludes internationals educated outside North America. But in terms of Canadians and US-educated "other" internationals, would you still say there is a measurable difference?

 

[lxz]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. None of the schools I applied to had that requirement, to my knowledge. I know most schools require applicants to have completed college in the US and Canada, which automatically excludes internationals educated outside North America. But in terms of Canadians and US-educated "other" internationals, would you still say there is a measurable difference?

I do expect so, but not entirely sure unless we could see a breakdown of country of origin in the AAMC spreadsheet. As LizzyM pointed out, non-native speakers do stand at disadvantage when it comes to interviews. That may explain why Canadians would "do better" in the application process.

 

[Chrome19]

Canadians are indeed favored over other int'ls. Some schools only consider Canadians for the int'l category. On my interview trail, all int'l interviewees I met were Canadians (while I'm not).

This is true. Some schools only allow Canadian internationals to apply.

 

[Quaero]

This is true. Some schools only allow Canadian internationals to apply.

True. Some schools would say, "Canadian only." Sadly, I applied (sent in my primary) to a school that supposedly accepts an international, but when I read the secondary, it said only LPR and citizens are allowed to apply.

 

[ncrassa]

Yeah, Canadians do seem to be favoured in several schools.

I do not agree with Shoeshopper. It is certainly difficult for an international student, but not impossible to get into a school in the U.S. The greatest challenges are (1) severe limitations on schools one can apply to [no state schools], and (2) lack of significant financial aid at most schools [Harvard, Yale, Duke, Cleveland Clinic, Dartmouth aside].

I applied this cycle as a non-Canadian international with a 3.9/35 and received 11 interview invites from U.S. schools, attended 9 interviews, and was accepted to a solitary school [Dartmouth] and am on waitlists for most of the rest.

At several interviews, I was asked if I intended to remain in the U.S. for ever or if I would ever consider going back to my home country. Two of my interviewers were visibly displeased when I said that even though I want to practise in the U.S., circumstances could warrant my moving back home eventually. Be ready to deal with this question.

That aside, at most of my interviews, I did not get a sense that my international status mattered very much [but who knows how adcoms work]. I'd prefer to think that my lack of post-interview success is more due to far more qualified candidates being preferred over me rather than any inherent prejudice in the process.

 

[Chrome19]

I'm trying to take care of finances now. Tough stuff as an international

Or maybe I should look for some hot American girl ASAP

 

[235788]

go caribbean!

 

[Quaero]

go caribbean!

Is there an official stats on the match rate for non-us citizen Caribbean grads?

I just don't think it's any easier. Try your best to get accepted to a us allo/osteo medschool might be better?

 

[littlefurrybugs]

I'm in this very annoying international student situation as well, so I need some advice...

My dad filed the petition for my family 5 years ago, and I'm currently a junior and attending a small private school in California as an international while I wait for my Green Card. We are expecting the initial interview to be sometime this summer. However, there is still no assurance of this pushing through, plus even if the interview does get scheduled this summer, it'll still take a couple more months, maybe even a year or so, before I can actually get my green card.

So taking into account the whole financial and admission difficulties, I have two options:

1) Apply for this coming cycle, and spend an $1500+ for all the medical school application fees. If the green card comes on time, wonderful! If not, then I would be at a disadvantage as you all have mentioned. Even if I do get accepted, I won't be able to afford it anyway... Basically, if the green card doesn't get to me on time, I just wasted a lot of money, plus I have to leave the country! Just dandy...

2) Use the money for medical school apps to apply only to other graduate school programs, (MPH, MS, or even PhD). All of these would be more realistic financially whether or not I have PR, and I think my chances of getting accepted to at least one of them is pretty decent.

3) Split the funding, and apply to medical school and grad school.

My gut really wants to go for the 3rd one, but if the chances of getting into medical school is pretty slim, I feel like I shouldn't put any money towards it...

 

[lxz]

I'm in this very annoying international student situation as well, so I need some advice...

My dad filed the petition for my family 5 years ago, and I'm currently a junior and attending a small private school in California as an international while I wait for my Green Card. We are expecting the initial interview to be sometime this summer. However, there is still no assurance of this pushing through, plus even if the interview does get scheduled this summer, it'll still take a couple more months, maybe even a year or so, before I can actually get my green card.

So taking into account the whole financial and admission difficulties, I have two options:

1) Apply for this coming cycle, and spend an $1500+ for all the medical school application fees. If the green card comes on time, wonderful! If not, then I would be at a disadvantage as you all have mentioned. Even if I do get accepted, I won't be able to afford it anyway... Basically, if the green card doesn't get to me on time, I just wasted a lot of money, plus I have to leave the country! Just dandy...

2) Use the money for medical school apps to apply only to other graduate school programs, (MPH, MS, or even PhD). All of these would be more realistic financially whether or not I have PR, and I think my chances of getting accepted to at least one of them is pretty decent.

3) Split the funding, and apply to medical school and grad school.

My gut really wants to go for the 3rd one, but if the chances of getting into medical school is pretty slim, I feel like I shouldn't put any money towards it...

Can you do one year of post-bac or just add one year of undergraduate for a minor or a major? Apply one year later if and when your green card is issued.

 

[littlefurrybugs]

Can you do one year of post-bac or just add one year of undergraduate for a minor or a major? Apply one year later if and when your green card is issued.

From what I have researched, I can't do a post-bac because most of those are only certificate programs and I can't get an F-1 visa for those. I was definitely considering an extra year of undergrad, but my scholarship is only for 4 years, and I believe it's a rule that I must leave upon the completion of my degree. I should probably ask the the international affairs office about this though. Thanks for the advice.

Which of the three would you pick though?

 

[lxz]

From what I have researched, I can't do a post-bac because most of those are only certificate programs and I can't get an F-1 visa for those. I was definitely considering an extra year of undergrad, but my scholarship is only for 4 years, and I believe it's a rule that I must leave upon the completion of my degree. I should probably ask the the international affairs office about this though. Thanks for the advice.

Which of the three would you pick though?

From what I understand, you can opt to enroll as a non-degree-seeking student after graduation for a semester. Adding an additional major/minor would directly restrict you from graduating on time, the only downside is you losing the scholarship after next year. But this is the best way in your case.

If your stats are good, go for #3. Otherwise, #2 just to have a back-up plan.

 

[Quaero]

Can't you do an OPT? Your status will remain as an international student. You might also earn some money/experience.

Sent from my A500 using SDN Mobile

 

[littlefurrybugs]

From what I understand, you can opt to enroll as a non-degree-seeking student after graduation for a semester. Adding an additional major/minor would directly restrict you from graduating on time, the only downside is you losing the scholarship after next year. But this is the best way in your case.

If your stats are good, go for #3. Otherwise, #2 just to have a back-up plan.

Duly noted. Thanks!

Can't you do an OPT? Your status will remain as an international student. You might also earn some money/experience.

I have looked into doing an OPT, but it's been a struggle to find any sort of job placement that will take me in for only a year.

 

[Neuronette]

Just curious, how do international students like you PAY for medical school? It seems like an impossible endeavor seeing that Med school in the US are usually an exorbitant $50,000+ per year.
Also, how do you deal with the fact that you may be unemployed even after matriculation from med school due to the lack of an SSN/Greencard?...and you'll be sitting on a mountain of debt (if taking out a loan is even possible for internationals..)

 

[235788]

Just curious, how do international students like you PAY for medical school? It seems like an impossible endeavor seeing that Med school in the US are usually an exorbitant $50,000+ per year.
Also, how do you deal with the fact that you may be unemployed even after matriculation from med school due to the lack of an SSN/Greencard?...and you'll be sitting on a mountain of debt (if taking out a loan is even possible for internationals..)

well the US government obviously doesn't front their loans.

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[shoeshopper21]

Edit: This post has been rescinded. Confidential information was mistakenly disclosed.

 

[jevo]

shop, if you hit the "MULTIQ" button next to reply, for every post you want to reply to, then you don't have to make so many posts in succession.

 

[littlefurrybugs]

@ shoeshopper21

We were actually told that they (whoever handles all these immigration businesses) are processing applications from April of 2006, while my family's paperwork was sent in September of 2006. I don't know who is right or who is wrong in this case, but I guess we'll just find out!

@Holy Franz

As for the whole financing situation, in theory, I could take out a loan because my dad is a PR. However, I would only be able to take out loans for one year. Most medical schools would require an escrow that covers for all 4 years of tuition plus living expenses. Plus, I feel like this would lead to an uncomfortable conversation with the immigration officer that would interview me:

They'll ask if I'm planning on coming back to my home country. By default, I am required to say yes. Then he will ask, "You are planning on pay back $200K by being a doctor here in the Philippines?". Yeah, I don't think this conversation will work out in my favor.

 

[shoeshopper21]

I was suggesting that the (low) proportion of international students in medical school is, in part, related to poor English language skills among applicants from non-English speaking countries. (Some come here for college and wish to stay for med school.)


Anyway, your link provides the information you seek. I saw a number of schools there from Dartmouth, Harvard & Hopkins to Rosalyn Franklin and St. Louis U. and many others.

This post is not very nice, because it's not very true. OP, I am a Canadian citizen who applied only to "top" American schools...I did not have a 4.0 and my MCAT is far below 40. And I attended quite a few interviews and was never asked to justify why I should be selected over the American candidates. Believe me, there are many (generally private) schools out there that will consider you, and that will treat you in a similar manner as a domestic applicant.

As far as a "preference" for Canadians over other internationals, I'm not sure I've seen anything of this nature, nor would I expect to...

Sorry to resurrect this thread but would you both kindly mind deleting my quote from your post due to legal reasons? Any help regarding this is much appreciated. Thank you very much!

 

[Make Or Break]

Candav hasnt logged on since last year. No one would've known about this thread if you didn't bump it again. Just sayin'