AOA, AACOM, and the ACGME agree to unified accreditation system

[scummie]

Can anyone comment on how this would affect IMG/FMG? I'm a DO student but am just curious.

Yeah, haven't heard anything. Somebody has to be left out here. I get the feeling somebody is not singing Kumbaya right now.

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[drunicorn]

What MD student is going to study OMM to take the COMLEX for an osteopathic residency anyway?

 

[sylvanthus]

What MD student is going to study OMM to take the COMLEX for an osteopathic residency anyway?

Honestly, you could read Saverese in a weekend and take the COMLEX and score decently well. Actually be able to perform OMT? No, but be able to pass the COMLEX, you bet.

 

[DrEnderW]

People that are not seeing the benefit of this merger or think that DOs will have a harder time in certain specialties are misguided.

Many of the most competitive DO applicants going the AOA for specialties like ortho, ENT, NS, uro, optho, and derm have high USMLE scores or COMLEX scores in the same percentile as MDs matching in those respective ACGME specialties. It was possible that many of these DO applicants would have been able to match ACGME in those surgical specialties or at solid ACGME IM, EM, rads, anesth programs but choose the AOA route because of the gamble of opting out of the AOA match. Now that there is one match, competitive DO applicants can apply broader and potentially match at a broader array of programs. Avoiding the hassle and gamble of two matches is HUGE. Will academic IM residencies with years of DO bias like NYU still be off the table? Most likely they will be, but many other opportunities will be available.

Furthermore, this increases fellowship opportunities for all DOs that would have gone to AOA residencies. All DOs can now go for fellowships if they are qualified and are accepted. This benefits every DO -- ranging from a DO orthopod can now specialize in hand if they are qualified and someone who was going to go AOA FM can specialize in sports medicine in many, many more locations.

No one with any common sense thinks its going to magically make everyone competitive everywhere, but it opens up a lot of possibilities and competition. Additionally, just like how many MDs look down on DOs, DO PDs at the competitive residency programs will surely still be taking DO students. In addition to the traditionally AOA accredited programs, DOs can take the gamble to apply to ACGME programs that could have potentially matched at but deemed too risky with a dual match.

 

[MedicineMike]

Honestly, you could read Saverese in a weekend and take the COMLEX and score decently well. Actually be able to perform OMT? No, but be able to pass the COMLEX, you bet.

Couldn't agree more with this. 2-3 days of saverese and you could get 97% of OMM questions right. In fact, that's exactly what I did....and did extremely well. That test is a joke

 

[scummie]

From the ACGME site:

A call has been scheduled to provide an opportunity to hear comments about this decision from top ACGME, AOA and AACOM leaders in a single setting. Here are the details for participating in the call:

• When: Thursday, February 27, 2014, at 9 a.m. EST/8 a.m. CST

• Participant Access Instructions: Dial in 5-10 minutes prior to the start time using the number 888-576-4398; conference code 9288273.

 

[as1212559]

First time I've logged in for a few months. This is undoubtedly good news. Nothing major is changing now but this sets the wheels in motion for a more level playing field down the road.

Also ACGME requirements may halt the progress of start up DO programs who do not have a sufficient GME system in the works.

Good news all around, and if I have to compete with MD's for a DO residency...... I will probably become friends with them along the way.

 

[sylvanthus]

From the ACGME site:

A call has been scheduled to provide an opportunity to hear comments about this decision from top ACGME, AOA and AACOM leaders in a single setting. Here are the details for participating in the call:

• When: Thursday, February 27, 2014, at 9 a.m. EST/8 a.m. CST

• Participant Access Instructions: Dial in 5-10 minutes prior to the start time using the number 888-576-4398; conference code 9288273.

I'm half tempted to listen in on this. Though, it requires getting up early on my day off. Hmmm

 

[sylvanthus]

Couldn't agree more with this. 2-3 days of saverese and you could get 97% of OMM questions right. In fact, that's exactly what I did....and did extremely well. That test is a joke

Actually this opens up a potentially lucrative field. Tutoring MD students on basic OMT so they pass and crush the COMLEX and get into whatever super competitive specialty spot they want on the formerly DO side of residency.

 

[hallowmann]

Can anyone comment on how this would affect IMG/FMG? I'm a DO student but am just curious.

According to the FAQs, IMGs/FMGs will also be able to apply to DO residencies in the same way US MDs will, but they will have to fulfill the same osteopathic requirements as MDs.

 

[scummie]

What am I looking forward to? No more DO vs MD threads.

 

[HarryPlopper]

Why make a rank list with 25 MDs who don't really want to go to your program? How do you compare qualified MDs to less qualified DOs? Do MDs now have to take the COMLEX? Wouldn't DO PDs who have been in charge of programs for eons take COMLEX scores over USMLE scores? Just like MD programs say "Yeah, sure we accept the COMLEX." really means "Please take the USMLE because we don't want to go through the COMLEX comparison formula and it's easier for us." Obviously you take the more qualified applicant over the less qualified ones, but making that distinction on purely MD vs DO basis from the viewpoint of a DO PD is unrealistic.

Even if the program is a safety program, so long as the applicant is willing to work just as hard, you will still want the applicant regardless of letters.

Comparing the MDs with DOs can be difficult but there are already ways to do so. There are audition rotations at places and the Step. DOs can take the step to help programs have a better idea where they stand amongst their allopathic counterparts. In addition since they must take the COMLEX, scoring high on both shows consistency.

I personally would never wish the COMLEX on anyone. I sure hope that PDs don't use the conversion formula because it is highly biased against DOs. Whether it is a DO or a MD PD, taking both allows a better comparison of the applicant.

 

[scummie]

Even if the program is a safety program, so long as the applicant is willing to work just as hard, you will still want the applicant regardless of letters.

Comparing the MDs with DOs can be difficult but there are already ways to do so. There are audition rotations at places and the Step. DOs can take the step to help programs have a better idea where they stand amongst their allopathic counterparts. In addition since they must take the COMLEX, scoring high on both shows consistency.

I personally would never wish the COMLEX on anyone. I sure hope that PDs don't use the conversion formula because it is highly biased against DOs. Whether it is a DO or a MD PD, taking both allows a better comparison of the applicant.

You will always have more or less qualified applicants, regardless of the letters behind their name. Obviously if you had to pick between two candidates, you're going to pick the better one, whether or not they are a DO or MD. Then you get into the debate about what makes someone qualified or a better fit for a program. Great audition, crappy scores? What about amazing scores and crappy rotation? You pick the person that fits in better with your program. So yes, better MD applicant vs crappy DO applicant--go pick MD. Let's not forget there is crappiness and excellence on both sides. I think the real question is between two equal applicants, one MD and one DO, who will a DO PD pick? What about a MD PD?

 

[TChapmanwvu1]

This is more than just a political implication. This has HUGE implications for Osteopathic students who want to do fellowships in areas in which AOA residency was lacking

 

[Lopis]

So, what you really mean is you don't understand why anyone would go do any residency without an OMM/NMM focus?

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. I know that many Osteopathic physicians don't practice OMM. But personally, I want to maintain my OMM skills.

 

[costales]

Actually this opens up a potentially lucrative field. Tutoring MD students on basic OMT so they pass and crush the COMLEX and get into whatever super competitive specialty spot they want on the formerly DO side of residency.

Yep, like an "AOA-approved" summer boot camp. Maybe someone in Conshohocken is already thinking about it.

 

[NontradCA]

I could see DO program PDs being biased towards MD applicants, but with so many more MDs than DOs, small fields like ENT, derm, ortho would probably be overwhelmed with MD applicants. Plus, if IMGs/FMGs start applying too, a lot of the unfilled FM/IM programs in bfe would suddenly start filling up, making everything more competitive.

These programs currently and will continue to require a rotation to be considered. This is good for DOs. Plain and simple.

 

[hallowmann]

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. I know that many Osteopathic physicians don't practice OMM. But personally, I want to maintain my OMM skills.

And you can. I doubt AOA programs that had a big OMM component would suddenly drop it. If anything, it will filter the AOA programs that don't practice any OMM, in effect making it easier for you to make sure that the program you end up at has a big OMM component.

Plus, according to the FAQs, the ACGME has created a committee to oversee NMM residency training (as it didn't have such a committee before the agreement).

 

[NurWollen]

What am I looking forward to? No more DO vs MD threads.

I wish... but somehow I don't think those will be going away. Who cares though?

This is awesome!!!! Best news ever.

 

[chet]

I don't understand why one would choose to go to an Allopathic residency after committing 4 years to learning Osteopathic techniques.

Understandably there are some residency programs that aren't available as DO residencies. For this reason I could understand it. But other than that, why would somebody choose to discontinue their osteopathic training??

I also agree with what Dharma said. It looks to me like the ACGME is going to swallow the AOA.

I think that this is a great step as far as putting us on a level playing field. But personally I feel that we already were on a level playing field. Do we really need the MD's to tell us its official?

Also along with what Scummie said, the fact that DO students have to blow the MD competition out of the water in order to be considered competitive is outrageous. Without considering anything other than board scores, why would an MD student be better qualified than a DO student if both students have the exact same board scores?

Any why would we want to do away with the COMLEX? if anything I would think that we would do away with the USMLE. The COMLEX has all of the osteopathic questions. If you want to go to a DO residency, there is no way of getting out of this.

Personally, I feel that the bottom line is that we should be proud to be Osteopathic medical students. We shouldn't have to convince our allopathic counterparts that we are on the same level. Attempting to do so is only legitimizing their bias.

lol

 

[ChiDO]

I've seen many comments about board scores here. I'm in a DO Ortho program and this years interview class had 75%+ take the USMLE with from what I recall all scores above 230. Think the highest score I saw was 263. Basically, most had similar scores between USMLE and COMLEX. So, having a unified match will probably take a lot of these "great DO students" and allow them to test the MD ortho options.

I have friends who are in DO ortho programs who applied to MD programs with 240-260 USMLEs; got 10+ interviews, but ultimately didn't risk skipping the DO match.

 

[WaylonS]

There's really nothing to get overly excited about. The most interesting part about this whole thing is going to be waiting to see how many DO residencies will be able to meet ACGME standards for accreditation.

Bingo. Considering most AOA derm programs are based out of a private practice group, I wonder how many will be unable to meet ACGME standards

 

[IMDoc607]

What does this mean if you are ABIM certified but in your first year of an osteopathic fellowship?

I am board certified by the ABIM and would prefer to not take the AOBIM. As per the FAQ, it seems that I would not need to. Anyone else know?

How will this affect my board certification/COMLEX examination/continuing medical education?
Discussions with ACGME are limited to GME accreditation. However, both AOA and ABMS certifications will be available to DOs and MDs who complete osteopathic-focused training programs.

 

[HarryPlopper]

Let's not forget there is crappiness and excellence on both sides. I think the real question is between two equal applicants, one MD and one DO, who will a DO PD pick? What about a MD PD?

We both know bias is still going to exist regardless what happens.

 

[scummie]

Bingo. Considering most AOA derm programs are based out of a private practice group, I wonder how many will be unable to meet ACGME standards

If you haven't noticed, derm practices are not hurting. I don't think patient volume is a problem. It's typical to have an extremely long waiting period to see a derm.

http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PFAssets/ProgramResources/080_Minimum_Numbers.pdf

Case numbers required by the ACGME for derm programs.

Here are the ACGME derm program requirements for accreditation.

http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PFAssets/ProgramRequirements/080dermatology_07012007.pdf

I think derm programs will be OK. It's the other specialties with residencies in Alaska that I wonder about.

 

[NurWollen]

If you haven't noticed, derm practices are not hurting. I don't think patient volume is a problem. It's typical to have an extremely long waiting period to see a derm.

http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PFAssets/ProgramResources/080_Minimum_Numbers.pdf

Case numbers required by the ACGME for derm programs.

Here are the ACGME derm program requirements for accreditation.

http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PFAssets/ProgramRequirements/080dermatology_07012007.pdf

I think derm programs will be OK. It's the other specialties with residencies in Alaska that I wonder about.

Actually there is only one residency in Alaska, and it is a dually accredited FM program.

 

[DrWBD]

I don't understand why one would choose to go to an Allopathic residency after committing 4 years to learning Osteopathic techniques.

You have a bright future ahead of you in the AOA!

 

[scummie]

Actually there is only one residency in Alaska, and it is a dually accredited FM program.

Bad example, my bad. I'm thinking about programs in the remote areas, where even though there is a large catchement area, still don't have the volume. Briefly looked at stats for programs in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. To be honest, I am surprised that there were a few programs in sparsely populated areas that were dually accredited. I guess if they can pull it off, why not all DO programs?

 

[hallowmann]

Bad example, my bad. I'm thinking about programs in the remote areas, where even though there is a large catchement area, still don't have the volume. Briefly looked at stats for programs in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. To be honest, I am surprised that there were a few programs in sparsely populated areas that were dually accredited. I guess if they can pull it off, why not all DO programs?

I'd wouldn't be surprised if most programs remain intact. I think most places would rather pony up and make necessary changes as opposed to completely losing their GME programs. Lets not forget that with a GME comes a steady stream of money and some notoriety. Even if it meant losing some money, I imagine most places would rather improve or jump the hoops as opposed to losing it all.

 

[MedicineMike]

I don't understand why one would choose to go to an Allopathic residency after committing 4 years to learning Osteopathic techniques.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I plan on distancing myself from all things AOA/Osteopathic/OMM-related for the rest of my life

 

[TChapmanwvu1]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I plan on distancing myself from all things AOA/Osteopathic/OMM-related for the rest of my life

I know this is totally off but can't help myself. What is up with the Berry Aneurysm? Do you want to go into interventional neuro?!

 

[Osteotastic]

Thank God!!! Its about time!!!!

 

[MedicineMike]

I know this is totally off but can't help myself. What is up with the Berry Aneurysm? Do you want to go into interventional neuro?!

Haha random, but before starting med school I found this pic and was like WHOA THIS PIC SHOWS I LIKE MEDICINE, so I used it before I even knew what it was a picture of. 3yrs later...I plan on doing IR (thinking about neuro IR)

 

[scummie]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I plan on distancing myself from all things AOA/Osteopathic/OMM-related for the rest of my life

No way bro. I'm going to start a part-time-tutor-MD-students-in-OMT-business and charge like $100/hr. Gotta pay back Uncle Sam somehow!!

 

[sanj238]

I don't understand why one would choose to go to an Allopathic residency after committing 4 years to learning Osteopathic techniques.

Understandably there are some residency programs that aren't available as DO residencies. For this reason I could understand it. But other than that, why would somebody choose to discontinue their osteopathic training??

I also agree with what Dharma said. It looks to me like the ACGME is going to swallow the AOA.

I think that this is a great step as far as putting us on a level playing field. But personally I feel that we already were on a level playing field. Do we really need the MD's to tell us its official?

Also along with what Scummie said, the fact that DO students have to blow the MD competition out of the water in order to be considered competitive is outrageous. Without considering anything other than board scores, why would an MD student be better qualified than a DO student if both students have the exact same board scores?

Any why would we want to do away with the COMLEX? if anything I would think that we would do away with the USMLE. The COMLEX has all of the osteopathic questions. If you want to go to a DO residency, there is no way of getting out of this.

Personally, I feel that the bottom line is that we should be proud to be Osteopathic medical students. We shouldn't have to convince our allopathic counterparts that we are on the same level. Attempting to do so is only legitimizing their bias.

This is a severely misguided statement and only continues to harm medical education. I am not sure what level you are but you seem to be a first year or even second. The reality is that you should care not about your pride at the expense of your patients. The reality is that the osteopathic comlex exam is significantly inferior to the USMLE. There is just no way around that. the amount of material, the critical thinking, the way questions are written. The comlex is simply not an adequate exam of whether or not you know the basics to become a competent physician. i am sorry but that is just the case.

This should hopefully lead to the eventual demise of the comlex.

I dont mind the competition. Only the best and most well prepared should populate any of these residencies.

 

[sanj238]

People that are not seeing the benefit of this merger or think that DOs will have a harder time in certain specialties are misguided.

Many of the most competitive DO applicants going the AOA for specialties like ortho, ENT, NS, uro, optho, and derm have high USMLE scores or COMLEX scores in the same percentile as MDs matching in those respective ACGME specialties. It was possible that many of these DO applicants would have been able to match ACGME in those surgical specialties or at solid ACGME IM, EM, rads, anesth programs but choose the AOA route because of the gamble of opting out of the AOA match. Now that there is one match, competitive DO applicants can apply broader and potentially match at a broader array of programs. Avoiding the hassle and gamble of two matches is HUGE. Will academic IM residencies with years of DO bias like NYU still be off the table? Most likely they will be, but many other opportunities will be available.

Furthermore, this increases fellowship opportunities for all DOs that would have gone to AOA residencies. All DOs can now go for fellowships if they are qualified and are accepted. This benefits every DO -- ranging from a DO orthopod can now specialize in hand if they are qualified and someone who was going to go AOA FM can specialize in sports medicine in many, many more locations.

No one with any common sense thinks its going to magically make everyone competitive everywhere, but it opens up a lot of possibilities and competition. Additionally, just like how many MDs look down on DOs, DO PDs at the competitive residency programs will surely still be taking DO students. In addition to the traditionally AOA accredited programs, DOs can take the gamble to apply to ACGME programs that could have potentially matched at but deemed too risky with a dual match.

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. I know that many Osteopathic physicians don't practice OMM. But personally, I want to maintain my OMM skills.

I've seen many comments about board scores here. I'm in a DO Ortho program and this years interview class had 75%+ take the USMLE with from what I recall all scores above 230. Think the highest score I saw was 263. Basically, most had similar scores between USMLE and COMLEX. So, having a unified match will probably take a lot of these "great DO students" and allow them to test the MD ortho options.

I have friends who are in DO ortho programs who applied to MD programs with 240-260 USMLEs; got 10+ interviews, but ultimately didn't risk skipping the DO match.

I appreciate the enthusiasm for your support of either the DO students or the OMM material- depending on the poster. Whether or not you want to maintain OMM the reality is that the vast majority of patients simply do not benefit from this treatment. That is just a fact- as exceedingly few OMM studies show any meaningful benefit in a well regarded paper/journal. Any argument otherwise is misleading.

Furthermore, any claim that an average or whatever had high USMLE scores is also misleading. On average less than 30 to 40 students tak the USMLE at most DO schools. I know this because I have asked my deans about the statistics for most osteo schools and in their conversations with other schools this is the consensus.

The vast majority who do well had extensive backgrounds either in post-bacc or majors- ex phys, anatomy coursework before med school etc.

These high scores do not reflect the overall student bodies. nor do they reflect the vast majority of students who apply to the osteopathic programs.

Frankly I have a hard time believing that there are DO students with 250+ USMLE scores who chose the DO route. Preparation for the USMLE is extensive and difficult. Scoring well on the COMLEX is not as hard. I know students with 660+ who barely scored 235 on the USMLE n= 5.

I have a hard time believing that students with high USMLE would forgo the USMLE match. Unless they are going to post these scores on here it is bunk. The time required to prepare is significant and different from COMLEX material- no mol bio, no genetics (limited), first order physio questions, almost no biochem, more anatomy- but first order for COMLEX. The USMLE is a significant undertaking and to do so implies significant preparation with the idea of going the MD route- to do otherwise would mean all that hardwork was for a very poorly planned preparation for the USMLE.

 

[TheFuture_22]

So does this merger mean that an MD could do a residency in NMM/OMM? How crazy would that be to find MDs teaching OMM at DO schools in the future?

 

[sanj238]

So does this merger mean that an MD could do a residency in NMM/OMM? How crazy would that be to find MDs teaching OMM at DO schools in the future?

why is that crazy. we already have MDs teaching us other stuff.....

 

[TheFuture_22]

why is that crazy. we already have MDs teaching us other stuff.....

Because it is something unique to our profession. Also, in the future there will be some MDs that are better at OMM than DOs. I just find that to be interesting to think about.

 

[Kevin Baker]

Yeah, haven't heard anything. Somebody has to be left out here. I get the feeling somebody is not singing Kumbaya right now.

This isn't looking like a zero sum game to me, at least on the surface. DOs gain the ability to apply to ACGME fellowships after their old AOA/new ACGME residency training, get their residencies up to regulation, and hopefully diminish post-graduate bias in employment opportunities since the 'ol DO residencies aren't up to snuff argument is eliminated. MDs gain access to the DO residencies and a few more competitive spots. FMGs win by having more spots to apply to. I'm sure there are some losers when you delve deeper, maybe DOs in the competitive specialties or wanting something in a great location, but I see this as a win-win for FMGs.

 

[MedicineMike]

I appreciate the enthusiasm for your support of either the DO students or the OMM material- depending on the poster. Whether or not you want to maintain OMM the reality is that the vast majority of patients simply do not benefit from this treatment. That is just a fact- as exceedingly few OMM studies show any meaningful benefit in a well regarded paper/journal. Any argument otherwise is misleading.

Furthermore, any claim that an average or whatever had high USMLE scores is also misleading. On average less than 30 to 40 students tak the USMLE at most DO schools. I know this because I have asked my deans about the statistics for most osteo schools and in their conversations with other schools this is the consensus.

The vast majority who do well had extensive backgrounds either in post-bacc or majors- ex phys, anatomy coursework before med school etc.

These high scores do not reflect the overall student bodies. nor do they reflect the vast majority of students who apply to the osteopathic programs.

Frankly I have a hard time believing that there are DO students with 250+ USMLE scores who chose the DO route. Preparation for the USMLE is extensive and difficult. Scoring well on the COMLEX is not as hard. I know students with 660+ who barely scored 235 on the USMLE n= 5.

I have a hard time believing that students with high USMLE would forgo the USMLE match. Unless they are going to post these scores on here it is bunk. The time required to prepare is significant and different from COMLEX material- no mol bio, no genetics (limited), first order physio questions, almost no biochem, more anatomy- but first order for COMLEX. The USMLE is a significant undertaking and to do so implies significant preparation with the idea of going the MD route- to do otherwise would mean all that hardwork was for a very poorly planned preparation for the USMLE.

As a current DO student, I am usually the first one to bash most things, however you can't just be any joe shmo out there and do well on COMLEX. Is it an inferior exam to USMLE? yes. Can you pass it without studying extensively? no. I know because I took both and did very well on both.

I know 6 people from my class who took USMLE and all scored 245-267. (I am one of them). I will also add that I had absolutely zero science background before coming to med school, besides the bare minimum required science classes. I didn't get into MD school due to dicking around in undergrad, not because I can't 'hang' with the MD folk.

 

[DocVapor]

So does this merger mean that an MD could do a residency in NMM/OMM? How crazy would that be to find MDs teaching OMM at DO schools in the future?

There are actually two MD's that teach OMM at my school. They self selected to learn it, and thus both are highly proficient. It isn't a big deal at all.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

How crazy would that be to find MDs teaching OMM at DO schools in the future?

http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/college/clinical/omm/mills.cfm

 

[scummie]

I didn't get into MD school due to dicking around in undergrad, not because I can't 'hang' with the MD folk.

This.

If MD schools calculated GPA the same way DO schools do, I could have gotten into to an MD school. I was in the top 1% of my high school class, but had to support myself in college. So yeah, 30 hours a week working isn't going to do any wonders for my GPA. It's like there's no forgiveness on the MD side if you don't do perfectly in college.

 

[TheFuture_22]

There are actually two MD's that teach OMM at my school. They self selected to learn it, and thus both are highly proficient. It isn't a big deal at all.

That's interesting. I did not know this was already happening? I'm guessing MDs weren't previously able to bill for it though and now they could provided they did an osteopathic focused residency.

 

[SurgeDO]

for those who think that MDs are just going to waltz right into the competitive AOA residencies and take a spot, have you considered the importance of audition rotations in the DO world? i would bet the majority of MDs would be unwilling to dedicate valuable rotation time to the residencies the MD world has frowned upon in the past.

this is absolutely fantastic news on so many levels. the AOA gon' and did right by me, yes sirree.

 

[costales]

Excellent point. But you never know.

 

[TeamZissou]

I also can't believe they haven't implemented a SOAP system like the ACGME. It's terrible to see colleagues play medical hunger games for residency spots.

This is the most accurate depiction of the scramble I have seen.

 

[studocplsignore]

This.

If MD schools calculated GPA the same way DO schools do, I could have gotten into to an MD school. I was in the top 1% of my high school class, but had to support myself in college. So yeah, 30 hours a week working isn't going to do any wonders for my GPA. It's like there's no forgiveness on the MD side if you don't do perfectly in college.

Same. I had a 38 on my MCAT anda 3.8GPA at an Ivy League. I made all A's (sans Anatomy) in first year so far. Only reason I didn't get in was because I took a leave of absence.

I'll 1v1 any MD for medical degrees.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Bold prediction- within 5 years of this stuff actually happening..... A big MD school with real research funding, and with no ties to OMM, publishes unbiased and irrefutable data that a good amount of OMT is placebo.