applying as "disadvantaged"

[sjmirror]

my question concerns the AMCAS application that asks about "disadvantaged status". to be brief, i'm currently a sophomore a top private school (HYPS), on basically close to a full ride (need based scholarship). ive taken the mcat already (long story why), and got a mid 30s score, however, my gpa is in the lowish 3.4 range. im indian.

im thinking ahead to the application, having just seen a copy of last year's, and am not sure whether i should put myself down as disadvantaged when i apply. i grew up in a single parent household (father was estranged; dunno where he is now), mom is a computer administrator. my family got food stamps while i was in elementary and middle school, etc, etc, until my mom got her computer programming degree and got a job. amcas' criteria for disadvantaged status seemed to be strictly that - if your family ever good food stamps, welfare, etc, then you should put it down.

i would want to writethis down if it lets the adcoms get a fuller picture of my background, but i dunno if they will think that im no longer "disadvantaged" because of the school i attend; and thus perceive me as dishonest or something. in that case, i would should just not bother and not discuss it at all.

so i guess my q boils down to, that perception is probably a very subjective thing. my siblings have done pretty well despite our background; all went to top colleges, etc. ive done alrite in college too - i even have a summer job now at a biotech private equity firm because of connections ive made in college. these are not the things that typically characterize someone who is poor. yeah, i was hella poor growing up (and still am, actually), but does going to a private school, etc, partaking in all of its opportunities, disqualify me from still writing about my background?

thanks all.

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[Saluki]

I probably wouldn't as since middle school you're family has been middle or upper middle class... Since you were on food stamps earlier, you certainly can claim it- I just wouldn't make that choice...

 

[lyn2006]

my question concerns the AMCAS application that asks about "disadvantaged status". to be brief, i'm currently a sophomore a top private school (HYPS), on basically close to a full ride (need based scholarship). ive taken the mcat already (long story why), and got a mid 30s score, however, my gpa is in the lowish 3.4 range. im indian.

im thinking ahead to the application, having just seen a copy of last year's, and am not sure whether i should put myself down as disadvantaged when i apply. i grew up in a single parent household (father was estranged; dunno where he is now), mom is a computer administrator. my family got food stamps while i was in elementary and middle school, etc, etc, until my mom got her computer programming degree and got a job. amcas' criteria for disadvantaged status seemed to be strictly that - if your family ever good food stamps, welfare, etc, then you should put it down.

i would want to writethis down if it lets the adcoms get a fuller picture of my background, but i dunno if they will think that im no longer "disadvantaged" because of the school i attend; and thus perceive me as dishonest or something. in that case, i would should just not bother and not discuss it at all.

so i guess my q boils down to, that perception is probably a very subjective thing. my siblings have done pretty well despite our background; all went to top colleges, etc. ive done alrite in college too - i even have a summer job now at a biotech private equity firm because of connections ive made in college. these are not the things that typically characterize someone who is poor. yeah, i was hella poor growing up (and still am, actually), but does going to a private school, etc, partaking in all of its opportunities, disqualify me from still writing about my background?

thanks all.

I was in a similar situation when I applied last year; my family qualified for food stamps, etc when I was growing up (and still makes much less than most applicants' families). I attended a private high school and ivy league college on substantial need-based grants, and was told by my pre-med advisor that if I felt I had been disadvantaged growing up that I should put that down. However, my parents worked hard to give me and my siblings everything they could, and I didn't even realize we were "poor" until I was in middle school. In college I worked 10-20 hours a week during classes, and had a full time paying job each summer, so I'm not quite as competitive as people who had free time to travel overseas, etc, but that's just how it turned out for me.

So I guess it's up to you to decide how much it affected you and whether you think you deserve the designation compared to others.

 

[sjmirror]

I probably wouldn't as since middle school you're family has been middle or upper middle class... Since you were on food stamps earlier, you certainly can claim it- I just wouldn't make that choice...

i actually would barely call even myself middle class now, and not efven close to upper middle class (that is after all what medical school would help me get to ;-)

 

[Elastase]

I would apply as disadvantaged, because your experiences growing up are probably different then most. Its makes you unique,and I see it as a positive story of how you and your siblings have done well (college, etc.) despite these initial challenges. Just make sure to not make it sound negative, write about your situation and what it did to change your perspective in life.

 

[LizzyM]

In addition to checking "Yes" to whether you have ever received gov't aid, you will be asked on the "disadvantaged" section of the AMCAS how your college costs are covered. The breakdown is shown as percentage: needs based grants, merit scholarships, loans, student contribution, family contritution, etc. This will show the adcoms that you are going to a good private school because the school (or other philanthropies) are helping you out with tuition.

Checking "disadvantaged" is not obligatory but it does help quantify information that you may make mention of in your PS or supplemental (depending on how you write your essays). It may also help explain why you may have had to work during college, etc rather than doing the things that students who need not work are able to do (volunteer projects, travel, etc).

It's your call.

 

[TygerTyger]

I'm still trying to figure this out too. . .We were lower middle class growing up, and about halfway through high school, my dad left the family (no communication in years, all that stuff) for this girl decades younger. My mom makes below poverty level income and with really small alimony is four or five thousand a year above the poverty level and has ridiculous amounts of debt from the marriage. I help her with bills when I can and work as much as possible in college. But since we weren't always really poor, I don't know if it counts as "disadvantaged." Should I put it down, or would it be "cheating" since I wasn't always this poor?

 

[mishjtnyu]

opps wrong spot

 

[LizzyM]

I'm still trying to figure this out too. . .We were lower middle class growing up, and about halfway through high school, my dad left the family (no communication in years, all that stuff) for this girl decades younger. My mom makes below poverty level income and with really small alimony is four or five thousand a year above the poverty level and has ridiculous amounts of debt from the marriage. I help her with bills when I can and work as much as possible in college. But since we weren't always really poor, I don't know if it counts as "disadvantaged." Should I put it down, or would it be "cheating" since I wasn't always this poor?

So, half way through H.S. was how many years ago?? Until then you were living in a two parent family with a roof over your head, clean clothes and food that didn't run out at the end of the month.

Who your dad left for is somewhat irrelevant to your "disadvantaged" status. Fact is for your first 15 years you were okay and since then (6 years of your late adolescence) your dad has been out of the picture and your mom needs help with the bills.

IMHO what "disadvantaged" means is that the applicant has through "bootstraps" (efforts at self-betterment), government assistance and philanthopy has managed to get through college despite growing up in poverty (defined as low income at home, government aid like food stamps, housing projects or housing voucher, working in H.S. to help pay household expenses.) It isn't for applicants who are "poor" now because they married against their parents advice while in 12th grade, those who grew up in grad school housing but now live in the life of a professor's kid (dad & mom were poor while dad was in grad school....), and those who think that being disadvantaged is the only way you'll get financial aid.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

"disadvantaged" seems to be meant for applicants with long lasting disadvantages. It is more meant for family financial difficulties, even people coming from abusive homes etc dont seem to fall under what this is looking for (though that fact should be brought up somehow in apps IMO).

so, for money, id say a good rule of thumb is simply to add up your families total household income year upon year to get the total household earnings for your lifetime so you can figure out a years average, also figure out the average number of family members living with you over the years and take a look at the national poverty guidlines for that many people.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/04poverty.shtml

If your family falls within a few thousand of the poverty line id say close enough and over a lifetime such circumstances surely have a negative effect... my family comes to just at poverty level due to a few years of financial stability way back when, but oddly we've never received food stamps, nor lived in public housing etc. oh pride.

 

[Hope2010]

...
for money... add up your families total household income year upon year to get the total household earnings for your lifetime so you can figure out a years average, also figure out the average number of family members living with you over the years and divide the income average by the family member average to get the average money was available per person in your household throughout your life. if its under 10 thats poverty level, but id say under 12 and you could mark disadvantaged without second guessing yourself too much ...

Ooh, what a fun equation!
Mine comes to $1,782 per person per year. No wonder we resorted to eating food out of the supermarket dumpster and wearing clothes that the thrift store gave away on "free" day. Somehow, though, I still felt a little guilty marking the Disadvantaged box on AMCAS. It's strange how a word that accurately defines my situation is not a word I like to use to define myself.
More specifically on topic, I think the definition of "Disadvantaged" has been left broad deliberately so that each person can assess their own life and decide whether to check the box or not. If it is a true description of what you have been through, mark it and explain it. But if you'd just be checking the box in hopes of getting bonus pity points, don't.

 

[Saluki]

Ooh, what a fun equation!
Mine comes to $1,782 per person per year. No wonder we resorted to eating food out of the supermarket dumpster and wearing clothes that the thrift store gave out on "free" day. Somehow, though, I still felt a little guilty marking the Disadvantaged box on AMCAS. It's strange how a word that accurately defines my situation is not a word I like to use to define myself.
More specifically on topic, I think the definition of "Disadvantaged" has been left broad deliberately so that each person can assess their own life and decide whether to check the box or not. If it is a true description of who you are and what you have been through, mark it and explain it. But if you'd just be checking the box in hopes of getting bonus pity points, don't.

Mine was 5,000.... The two years that my mom felt "happy" enough to work, she had a pretty good paying job; it was the other years that things got a little tight financially ... Since I went to private high school (scholarship kid), I decided not to check disadvantaged... Probably not the right choice, but hind sight is 20/20...

 

[dbhvt]

I'm still trying to figure this out too. . .We were lower middle class growing up, and about halfway through high school, my dad left the family (no communication in years, all that stuff) for this girl decades younger. My mom makes below poverty level income and with really small alimony is four or five thousand a year above the poverty level and has ridiculous amounts of debt from the marriage. I help her with bills when I can and work as much as possible in college. But since we weren't always really poor, I don't know if it counts as "disadvantaged." Should I put it down, or would it be "cheating" since I wasn't always this poor?

My situation was similar. My family had plenty of money growing up, but a couple of things happened about 10 years ago and now we're dirt poor. I didn't put that I was disadvantaged because it didn't really affect my education or life opportunities.

My personal belief is that, if you feel a little iffy about whether to check that box, don't do it.

 

[doublehh03]

man my fam is VERY poor. we moved to the US 9 yrs ago and yet we live in the same apartment in a ppoor neighborhood b/c my parents came when they were already fairly old (40+).

i paid for my undergrad w/ primarily financial aid, and some scholarships.

does marking "disadvantaged" help in the application process AT ALL?

or do they just use it once you're accepted to give u aid?

 

[michjen23]

Hi LizzyM,

I saw you posted here so I thought maybe I could get your advice about disadvantaged. I know that I would clearly be considered disadvantaged (welfare, parent in jail, drug addict homeless other parent etc, been supporting self since HS college with scholarship etc)..

BUT i don't want this to in any way dominate my application. I thought the disadvantaged section was a good place to put it all, because I want to avoid any awkward moments during an interview if someone casually asks about family etc. However, I understand that many people really look down on families like mine and i don't want to be immediately discounted as a high risk because of my family stuff (especially since i have 3.7 + gpa and lots of stuff to go with it).

What is your take on all this? I was going to apply for FAP to cover my application costs but I am hesitant because I don't want all this stuff to interfere with the rest of my application. Honestly it feels like such a catch 22 work your whole life to prove yourself and now applications all want parents info like education levels etc...


I SINCERELY would appreciate your advice

 

[pattayapus]

i wish i had applied as disadvantaged, but i was in the same quandary as you guys. my dad had been unemployed for years, but he just left last summer when i started applying, and i felt like he was out of my family and out of my life anyway...i didn't feel like he or his history should have anything to do with my getting into medical school.

but now that i think about it, i really wish i had just checked disadvantaged on my application and explained it briefly in the section that allows you to. i mean, there are varying degrees of disadvantaged, and if you just honestly tell them what your background is, they'll see you're not necessarily asking for special consideration or anything. you're just answering the question, telling them everything you can about yourself. and let them judge whether to give you special status or not--each school has its own way of looking at things, and you never know how you compare to everyone else in the nation.

also, if any of you plan on applying to university of washington (from out of state) or some other schools that basically only accept in-state, disadvantaged status makes you someone they'll consider. at least that's what it said on the u of wash website, and on the rejection letter (pre-secondary) i got from them. this may not be a reason to apply for disadvantaged, but it's something to consider.

 

[sn0wbum]

or do they just use it once you're accepted to give u aid?

once you're in, most fin aid offices have their own applications that are pretty comprehensive.

if you think you might qualify for disadvantaged status it couldn't hurt to have that noted. (whether it strongly helps is debatable)

when i was applying i wish i had looked into the AMCAS fee waiver much much earlier (ie. before submitting the amcas primary application, or even registering for the MCAT for that matter). the fee waiver reduces the cost of mcat registration, primary application fees, and most schools will waive secondary application fees and even inital deposits once ur accepted)

good luck applying!

 

[8744]

Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort. "Farewell
to Thee" being played in the background on Hawaiian guitar.

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.
Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine,
ay Gessiah?
Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.
Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin'
here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?
MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup
o' tea.
GC: A cup ' COLD tea.
EI: Without milk or sugar.
TG: OR tea!
MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.
EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a
rolled up newspaper.
GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money
doesn't buy you happiness."
EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to
live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.
GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one
room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the
floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for
fear of FALLING!
TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a
corridor!
MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a
palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish
tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting
fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.
EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered
by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.
GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and
live in a lake!
TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty
of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
MP: Cardboard box?
TG: Aye.
MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in
a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the
morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down
mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home,
out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!
GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in
the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to
work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad
would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we
were LUCKY!
TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox
at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues.
We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four
hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we
got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night,
half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), eat a lump
of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill
owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home,
our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves
singing "Hallelujah."
MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't
believe ya'.
ALL: Nope, nope..

 

[Sanctuary]

People like you (OP) make me smile. I can just imagine the look on the interviewers face when he's asking you about how you've been so disadvantaged in your life because at one point you got government food assistance, somewhere inbetween ivy league schools and full scholarships. I would hope that he/she would ask you, "So if you are so disadvantaged, what is someone who is born and raised in the projects, goes to an underfunded inner city high school, and graduates from the cheapest public school that is closest in distance to their 2nd job?"

I think it's gotten to a point where there should be a required pre-med course called "How to tell if you are an under-represented minority and/or disadvantaged." In this course, the first three weeks will be dedicated to "How to look in the mirror and see your skin color." Several reknown cosmetologists will teach this section. Weeks 4 through the end will focus on how to tell if you are a disadvantaged individual, since often times we get so caught up in our busy lives that we don't stop to go through all our years searching for something that might have "qualified" as a disadvantaged indicator.

 

[michjen23]

Sanctuary,

I don't think going to anything but the cheapest public college in the country is needed in order for someone to have been disadvantaged. That is actually completely ridiculous since those schools barely offer any financial aid since they are so cheap their endowments and such are usually pretty weak so they simply don't have the money to put out for financial aid (yes I know this applies to most not all public schools).

YOU are the reason I don't know whether or not to apply as disadvantaged..people like you who believe that I didn't deserve to go to a private school because of my background. And for your information to go to my state school would have required MORE loans etc for me.

So according to you I should not check the disadvantaged box, because even though I have a parent in jail and the other one died, I was able to get into a great school and get a scholarship...but then how do you suggest I deal with it during INTERVIEWS when people casually discuss family all the time?

People like you (OP) make me smile. I can just imagine the look on the interviewers face when he's asking you about how you've been so disadvantaged in your life because at one point you got government food assistance, somewhere inbetween ivy league schools and full scholarships. I would hope that he/she would ask you, "So if you are so disadvantaged, what is someone who is born and raised in the projects, goes to an underfunded inner city high school, and graduates from the cheapest public school that is closest in distance to their 2nd job?"

I think it's gotten to a point where there should be a required pre-med course called "How to tell if you are an under-represented minority and/or disadvantaged." In this course, the first three weeks will be dedicated to "How to look in the mirror and see your skin color." Several reknown cosmetologists will teach this section. Weeks 4 through the end will focus on how to tell if you are a disadvantaged individual, since often times we get so caught up in our busy lives that we don't stop to go through all our years searching for something that might have "qualified" as a disadvantaged indicator.

 

[aliziry]

nm

 

[8744]

Sanctuary,

I don't think going to anything but the cheapest public college in the country is needed in order for someone to have been disadvantaged. That is actually completely ridiculous since those schools barely offer any financial aid since they are so cheap their endowments and such are usually pretty weak so they simply don't have the money to put out for financial aid (yes I know this applies to most not all public schools).

YOU are the reason I don't know whether or not to apply as disadvantaged..people like you who believe that I didn't deserve to go to a private school because of my background. And for your information to go to my state school would have required MORE loans etc for me.

So according to you I should not check the disadvantaged box, because even though I have a parent in jail and the other one died, I was able to get into a great school and get a scholarship...but then how do you suggest I deal with it during INTERVIEWS when people casually discuss family all the time?

Most financial aid come from student loans which are not tied to the size or the prestige of your school. Presumably even the disadvantaged can take out loans to pay for their education as it is no sin to expect that once one has a medical, law, or engineering degree paying back said loans should not be a problem....even for the disadvantaged.

Aren't we milking that disadvantged thing a little hard here? Presumably the very fact that you know you are disadvantaged obviates your need for any special assistance. I mean, you're all obviously smart enough to consider a career in medicine, you will all probably get accepted to medical school on your merits, and you will all probably rise above your disadvantagenousmentnous (whatever) and find yourself at the top of the heap.

Doesn't this jockeying for position in the pecking order of despair seem a little cynical?

 

[8744]

In other words, despite working since age 14 in a West Virginia coal mine or having a crack-addicted mother, having a well thought out plan to become the youngest Chairman of the Department of Neurosurgery at Hopkins and more importantly the ambition to do it speaks against your being disadvantaged in any way.

In fact, ambition that is the only advantage many of my disadvantaged patients are lacking. If the extent of your ambition is to both score enough crack for a good buzz and manage to get disability for the rest of your life then you will amount to nothing and will spend the rest of your life being patronized by liberals and looked down on by everybody else.

 

[michjen23]

Not really sure why you think the school you attend doesn't have anything to do with the financial aid you get, but the point of the post isn't to argue over financial aid even though it seems you might want to.

However, you did manage to miss the whole point of my entire question, but did manage to be extremely insulting instead Thanks I appreciate your ignorance and your joking about "crack addicted" people is just distasteful on your part not to mention unnecessary.

The whole point of my question was that I was concerned not using that space to explain things could hurt me as it is inevitable that parent stuff comes up, but that explaining it in that space could also be hurtful as there are people like YOU who read these things and are just insulting.

MY point was that I see my story as the biggest weakness and DON"T KNOW HOW TO address it properly!

So thanks I really appreciated you going to great lengths to be as degrading al possible to an already sensitive situation

Most financial aid come from student loans which are not tied to the size or the prestige of your school. Presumably even the disadvantaged can take out loans to pay for their education as it is no sin to expect that once one has a medical, law, or engineering degree paying back said loans should not be a problem....even for the disadvantaged.

Aren't we milking that disadvantged thing a little hard here? Presumably the very fact that you know you are disadvantaged obviates your need for any special assistance. I mean, you're all obviously smart enough to consider a career in medicine, you will all probably get accepted to medical school on your merits, and you will all probably rise above your disadvantagenousmentnous (whatever) and find yourself at the top of the heap.

Doesn't this jockeying for position in the pecking order of despair seem a little cynical?

 

[Doc.Holliday]

YOU are the reason I don't know whether or not to apply as disadvantaged..people like you who believe that I didn't deserve to go to a private school because of my background. And for your information to go to my state school would have required MORE loans etc for me.

adcomms seem much more understanding about this whole thing than fellow premeds.

I was worried about checking the box, fearing id have an interviewer with such a harsh outlook on the matter, i didnt want to set myself up for a hellish interview experience or anything of the sort. I havent yet gone through the process, im applying this summer, but I dont expect it to be much of a problem, most others ive talked to turned out fine.

disadvantaged means just that, "disadvantaged", if you were not on the same playing field as 99% of other premeds, check the damned box, regardless of the fact that you overcame your obstacles and ended up at a private school with and received a great education. Its all about creating an accurate picture of who you are and how you got to where you are.

There are of course varying degrees, of how greatly someone qualifies to check the box, but thats what the questions about your situation are for, checking the box isnt a claim that your as bad off as the kid from the projects and went to public school, the numbers and explanation will show whats really going on.

and as the question was posed if thats disadvantaged then what is the kid from the projects who went to the crappiest public schools and worked all hours of the day... well, it might make you sad, but hes not a future doctor thats what.

 

[doublepeak]

Sanctuary,

I don't think going to anything but the cheapest public college in the country is needed in order for someone to have been disadvantaged. That is actually completely ridiculous since those schools barely offer any financial aid since they are so cheap their endowments and such are usually pretty weak so they simply don't have the money to put out for financial aid (yes I know this applies to most not all public schools).

YOU are the reason I don't know whether or not to apply as disadvantaged..people like you who believe that I didn't deserve to go to a private school because of my background. And for your information to go to my state school would have required MORE loans etc for me.

So according to you I should not check the disadvantaged box, because even though I have a parent in jail and the other one died, I was able to get into a great school and get a scholarship...but then how do you suggest I deal with it during INTERVIEWS when people casually discuss family all the time?

I did check that box and besides giving a specifics regarding your parents education, income, and location where you grew up (which for some odd reason doesn't accomadate those who moved numerous times), etc, it also gives you a space to describe your situation. I didn't want my PS and other aspects of my application to surround that and I also wanted my economic situation out there to make it easier for interviews. I moved like 15 times when I was younger so while they ask "why did you move so much" they don't think twice (and assume my dad's part of the military) but when I say we moved to follow my dad when he got transfered to different federal prisons, I get a double-take; so it WAS easier for me if it was out there already.

I was super honest and said in the description that the public high schools I went to were really good and I got a scholarship to go to a private university. An interviewer commended me on my humility and even though I went through hard stuff it didn't sound like "pity me" (like other people's he had read sounded like). This part of my life has made me who I am, and I want to work as a physician to the underserved throughout my career, therefore I thought it was necessary to show where this motivation came from.

Just be honest and they can take it how they want to.

 

[8744]

...your joking about "crack addicted" people is just distasteful on your part not to mention unnecessary....

Exactly what is it you think keeps the so-called disadvantaged in thier place if not a lack of ambition? In this case meaning both the knowledge and the self-discipline required to delay gratification while working towards a goal. Not to mention having the conceptual tools to see an alternative lifestyle which, my young friend, most of my crack addicted and/or indigent patients do not have.

In no way are any of you posting on this forum who have both the conceptual tools to envision a better future and the skills to achieve it in any way disadvantaged, at least not when compared to the truly diadvantaged who have neither. If you want to milk the system for any advantage you can get I have no complaints because you'd be stupid not to. But you are gaming the system.

 

[aliziry]

Exactly what is it you think keeps the so-called disadvantaged in thier place if not a lack of ambition? In this case meaning both the knowledge and the self-discipline required to delay gratification while working towards a goal. Not to mention having the conceptual tools to see an alternative lifestyle which, my young friend, most of my crack addicted and/or indigent patients do not have.

In no way are any of you posting on this forum who have both the conceptual tools to envision a better future and the skills to achieve it in any way disadvantaged, at least not when compared to the truly diadvantaged who have neither. If you want to milk the system for any advantage you can get I have no complaints because you'd be stupid not to. But you are gaming the system.

I am pretty sure when the put disadvantaged on the AMCAS they probably meant financially. If what you are saying were true and its not, then no truly disadvantaged person would ever apply to med school.

 

[Sanctuary]

Sanctuary,

I don't think going to anything but the cheapest public college in the country is needed in order for someone to have been disadvantaged. That is actually completely ridiculous since those schools barely offer any financial aid since they are so cheap their endowments and such are usually pretty weak so they simply don't have the money to put out for financial aid (yes I know this applies to most not all public schools).

YOU are the reason I don't know whether or not to apply as disadvantaged..people like you who believe that I didn't deserve to go to a private school because of my background. And for your information to go to my state school would have required MORE loans etc for me.

So according to you I should not check the disadvantaged box, because even though I have a parent in jail and the other one died, I was able to get into a great school and get a scholarship...but then how do you suggest I deal with it during INTERVIEWS when people casually discuss family all the time?

My understanding of the issue at hand is based on my conversations with docs at OHSU School of Medicine (where I work). You see, we have programs here where we go out into the homeless community and provide free medical check-ups and other routine procedures for the truly disadvantaged homeless population. I have been a part of this program for two years now, even though I am just a pre-med, and have witnessed what being truly disadvantaged really is. I've asked several docs about the "disadvantaged" status on med apps., and their beliefs are that it is there to represent someone who has had great ambition and determination to pursue medicine, but for many socioeconomical reasons they were held back and ended up at crummy schools, often as single, disenfranchised parents at a very young age. Thus, the "disadvantage" they are claiming shows that they could have done better if delt a better hand.

Therefore, they do not view it as an outlet for someone to say that at some point in his/her life, something sucky happened for 6-12 months that meant their allowance was less than what they had grown accustomed to, but then once their parents FINALLY got their Ph.D.s, they were able to pull themselves out of the slums and see light at the end of the tunnel-of-despair with their new iPod Video.

This may be specific to Oregon and may not be the views of other states. Remember, we are a quirky, liberal bunch here in the Great NW.

 

[fpr85]

Well hell, I might as well put myself down as "disadvantaged" then too.

I am 20 years old, work over 40 hours a week, and am taking 12 credits at my local community college. To top it off I pay over $3.00 a gallon for gas, driving over 50 miles a day between work and school. I pay for everything on my own (my classes, books, gas) except for housing. Unfortunately I'm white.

I don't consider myself, nor will I ever consider myself "disadvantaged". I consider it hard-working.

 

[aliziry]

Well hell, I might as well put myself down as "disadvantaged" then too.

I am 20 years old, work over 40 hours a week, and am taking 12 credits at my local community college. To top it off I pay over $3.00 a gallon for gas, driving over 50 miles a day between work and school. I pay for everything on my own (my classes, books, gas) except for housing. Unfortunately I'm white.

I don't consider myself, nor will I ever consider myself "disadvantaged". I consider it hard-working.

Dont turn this into a debate about race. Being white has nothing to do with it.

 

[michjen23]

Doublepeak,

THANKS for making my day! It was so nice to hear there is another premed student out there who has a parent in prison, who felt the same angst about it being looked down on by people. I never told any of my friends in college about my parents for that reason, only my very best friend knew. I completely agree with you about trying to use that space to explain away a confusing family situation without letting it take over my application, and of course instead of scaring some poor interviewer. I am so relieved it went so well for you, and that you didn't get any harsh reactions.

Panda Bear,
I am not really sure why you are so bitter, but at least it is good to know my worry for being judged harshly wasn't just some premed paranoia
You asked "What do you think keeps the disadvantaged in THEIR place?" Well, lots of things, but sometimes luck plays more of a role than you would think. For my parents I am sure you would think they should have stayed in "their place" for instance my mother definitely belongs in prison (and hence I don't speak to her), and well before my dad passed away he wasted plenty of years homeless on drugs. Luckily I learned how important education was from their failures, and my dad didn't become homeless till I was 16 so I was able to work and still go to school, stay in various homes, and luckily do very well since I was motivated by their failures. But some arent so lucky lots of my classmates were really depressed who had parents like mine and you are right most of them didn't make it.

SO I will give that to you panda most people don't as you put it "have the conceptual tools to see an alternative lifestyle," but for those that do you should understand that we are not a proud group and most people for instance doubepeak and myself are not trying to milk any system, but are in fact worried about the truth of our situations hurting us.

I did check that box and besides giving a specifics regarding your parents education, income, and location where you grew up (which for some odd reason doesn't accomadate those who moved numerous times), etc, it also gives you a space to describe your situation. I didn't want my PS and other aspects of my application to surround that and I also wanted my economic situation out there to make it easier for interviews. I moved like 15 times when I was younger so while they ask "why did you move so much" they don't think twice (and assume my dad's part of the military) but when I say we moved to follow my dad when he got transfered to different federal prisons, I get a double-take; so it WAS easier for me if it was out there already.

I was super honest and said in the description that the public high schools I went to were really good and I got a scholarship to go to a private university. An interviewer commended me on my humility and even though I went through hard stuff it didn't sound like "pity me" (like other people's he had read sounded like). This part of my life has made me who I am, and I want to work as a physician to the underserved throughout my career, therefore I thought it was necessary to show where this motivation came from.

Just be honest and they can take it how they want to.

 

[Sanctuary]

Doublepeak,

THANKS for making my day! It was so nice to hear there is another premed student out there who has a parent in prison, who felt the same angst about it being looked down on by people. I never told any of my friends in college about my parents for that reason, only my very best friend knew. I completely agree with you about trying to use that space to explain away a confusing family situation without letting it take over my application, and of course instead of scaring some poor interviewer. I am so relieved it went so well for you, and that you didn't get any harsh reactions.

Panda Bear,
I am not really sure why you are so bitter, but at least it is good to know my worry for being judged harshly wasn't just some premed paranoia
You asked "What do you think keeps the disadvantaged in THEIR place?" Well, lots of things, but sometimes luck plays more of a role than you would think. For my parents I am sure you would think they should have stayed in "their place" for instance my mother definitely belongs in prison (and hence I don't speak to her), and well before my dad passed away he wasted plenty of years homeless on drugs. Luckily I learned how important education was from their failures, and my dad didn't become homeless till I was 16 so I was able to work and still go to school, stay in various homes, and luckily do very well since I was motivated by their failures. But some arent so lucky lots of my classmates were really depressed who had parents like mine and you are right most of them didn't make it.

SO I will give that to you panda most people don't as you put it "have the conceptual tools to see an alternative lifestyle," but for those that do you should understand that we are not a proud group and most people for instance doubepeak and myself are not trying to milk any system, but are in fact worried about the truth of our situations hurting us.

Your life situations have put you at a disadvantage. Your situation wasn't what this thread was referring to. If I remember correctly (the thread has gone on for some time now), it was about an "indian" boy who's engineer parents got food stamps at some point in his life. Due to the use of food stamps, he felt he was disadvantaged; although not entirely, hence the post on SDN seeking affirmation.

 

[8744]

I am pretty sure when the put disadvantaged on the AMCAS they probably meant financially. If what you are saying were true and its not, then no truly disadvantaged person would ever apply to med school.

You win the cookie. "Disadvantaged" is a ridiculous concept. Some of the people on this forum clamoring for "disadvantaged" status are probably some of the most intelligent and articulate people in the country who will have no trouble getting into medical school and the best residency programs. The fact they may be black or some other coveted minority won't hurt 'em a bit and I am in complete agreement that they milk the current system of institutional grievance mongoring to the fullest extent possible.

We all have disadvantages. In the old days we used to call obsessing about them "whining" and using them as an excuse "quitting."

 

[fpr85]

 

[8744]

...Panda Bear,
I am not really sure why you are so bitter, but at least it is good to know my worry for being judged harshly wasn't just some premed paranoia
You asked "What do you think keeps the disadvantaged in THEIR place?" Well, lots of things, but sometimes luck plays more of a role than you would think. For my parents I am sure you would think they should have stayed in "their place" for instance my mother definitely belongs in prison (and hence I don't speak to her), and well before my dad passed away he wasted plenty of years homeless on drugs. Luckily I learned how important education was from their failures, and my dad didn't become homeless till I was 16 so I was able to work and still go to school, stay in various homes, and luckily do very well since I was motivated by their failures. But some arent so lucky lots of my classmates were really depressed who had parents like mine and you are right most of them didn't make it....

Well, good for you. Now, tell me, how are you disadvantaged? You seem fairly intelligent. You obviously have ambition and self-discipline which you learned in a different way than most of us but the result is the same. I sincerely applaud your success but now you are telling me that after all this you still need somebody to give you an advantage in life? What for? As a reward for having bad parents?

In other words, I want you to tell me how any medical school wouldn't want to accept you on your own merits, understanding that you may as well play the disadvantaged card as everybody else is doing it and not playing it might acutally hurt you.

Between you and me, you understand, as I am not on an admissions comittee and have no influence at all in your future.

And, I ask again, what does keep the poor in their place? Why, in other words do I see entire families ranging from great-grandmother at 45 to 16-year-old daughter pregant with her second child who have never celebrated a marriage, a high school graduation, or a successful promotion at a job in four generations? Many might think I'm exxagerating but I suspect you know I'm not.

Finally, if we're going to call having good parents a lucky but rare event, even among the poor who in my memory were once known for their stable family structure, then our civilization is finished.

 

[aliziry]

You win the cookie. "Disadvantaged" is a ridiculous concept. Some of the people on this forum clamoring for "disadvantaged" status are probably some of the most intelligent and articulate people in the country who will have no trouble getting into medical school and the best residency programs. The fact they may be black or some other coveted minority won't hurt 'em a bit and I am in complete agreement that they milk the current system of institutional grievance mongoring to the fullest extent possible.

We all have disadvantages. In the old days we used to call obsessing about them "whining" and using them as an excuse "quitting."

You completely miss the point. The AAMC put that on the AMCAS to identify students who they feel if given the same opportunities as other to shadow and volunteer and research and whathaveyou would have done so and suceeded. Just because some student has lower numbers and not that many
EC should not immediately nix them. Why must everything that is done to help those not so fortunate be terrible and a "ridiculous concept". And I hope that cookie is chocolate chip mate.

 

[8744]

You completely miss the point. The AAMC put that on the AMCAS to identify students who they feel if given the same opportunities as other to shadow and volunteer and research and whathaveyou would have done so and suceeded. Just because some student has lower numbers and not that many
EC should not immediately nix them. Why must everything that is done to help those not so fortunate be terrible and a "ridiculous concept". And I hope that cookie is chocolate chip mate.

Fantastic. I think if you can milk the system then you should do it. Hey, by those criteria I'm disadvantged because I had to work during undergraduate, work while doing my pre-med prerequisites, and as I had a family had very little time for either volunteer work or research.

 

[aliziry]

Fantastic. I think if you can milk the system then you should do it. Hey, by those criteria I'm disadvantged because I had to work during undergraduate, work while doing my pre-med prerequisites, and as I had a family had very little time for either volunteer work or research.

I am not trying to milk the system. You dont even know my circumstances. You should know the facts before criticizing someone. Thank god people like you are not ADCOMS everyone who checks disadvantaged is milking the system give me a break. You having a family means nothing for this. That was a choice.

 

[8744]

I am not trying to milk the system. You dont even know my circumstances. You should know the facts before criticizing someone. Thank god people like you are not ADCOMS everyone who checks disadvantaged is milking the system give me a break. You having a family means nothing for this. That was a choice.

I am not criticising you. I'm celebrating your diversity and all of that happy horse****.

I also want to add that we have certainly turned 180 degrees from the "can do" spirit which was the governing ethos of my parent's generation, a generation which suffered through the depression, World War II (particularly brutal in my Father's village in Northern Greece) and all manner of deprivation but yet would have been ashamed to whine about a little hardship.

Now, apparently, we are striving for the very real rewards associated with glorifying our victimhood.

Yee haw.

 

[8744]

You having a family means nothing for this. That was a choice.

So a single mother with two kids doesn't qualify either? Surely that was a choice too?

 

[aliziry]

I am not criticising you. I'm celebrating your diversity and all of that happy horse****.

I also want to add that we have certainly turned 180 degrees from the "can do" spirit which was the governing ethos of my parent's generation, a generation which suffered through the depression, World War II (particularly brutal in my Father's village in Northern Greece) and all manner of deprivation but yet would have been ashamed to whine about a little hardship.

Now, apparently, we are striving for the very real rewards associated with glorifying our victimhood.

Yee haw.

Funny. No one is asking for a handout here. My fathers family too suffered during WW2 but I asume you did not suffer the way he did.The reason we want to take things like "a little hardship" into consideration is the fact that 95% of pre-med applicants never had much hardship. Those 5% that do are the cream of the crop. They dont go around "whining" and making excuses for their lives. The only reason this post started was because someone who I dont consider disadvantaged want to milk the system. "diversity and all of that happy horse****" you will be one hell of a MD.

 

[aliziry]

So a single mother with two kids doesn't qualify either? Surely that was a choice too?

Not everything is black and white mate. Getting married and starting a family is not the same thing at all. So now you are a single father with children too eh?

 

[sjmirror]

appreciate all the (mostly) helpful responses from everyone. it seems that the best way to do is to be straightforward - amcas asks if my family got food stamps, so i put down we got it those x number of years. when the time comes i'll write down that my siblings and i have managed to succeed despite those obstacles. to be honest, one reason i would like to put this down is because i think adcoms tend to stereotype south asian premeds...we make up a HUGE percentage of med school students, and a lot of south asian friends had parents who came over as doctors and engineers. my path wasn't so typical, and id like the adcoms to be aware of that.

thanks again!

 

[8744]

Not everything is black and white mate. Getting married and starting a family is not the same thing at all.

Well, one can be an accident, of course. But two? That's a choice, or at least the result of a poor grasp on the concepts. It's incredibly patronizing to suggest that single mothers have no control over their reproductive functions and that the babies just appear, unlooked for and unsuspected.

 

[sjmirror]

Well, good for you. Now, tell me, how are you disadvantaged? You seem fairly intelligent. You obviously have ambition and self-discipline which you learned in a different way than most of us but the result is the same. I sincerely applaud your success but now you are telling me that after all this you still need somebody to give you an advantage in life? What for? As a reward for having bad parents?

In other words, I want you to tell me how any medical school wouldn't want to accept you on your own merits, understanding that you may as well play the disadvantaged card as everybody else is doing it and not playing it might acutally hurt you.

Between you and me, you understand, as I am not on an admissions comittee and have no influence at all in your future.

And, I ask again, what does keep the poor in their place? Why, in other words do I see entire families ranging from great-grandmother at 45 to 16-year-old daughter pregant with her second child who have never celebrated a marriage, a high school graduation, or a successful promotion at a job in four generations? Many might think I'm exxagerating but I suspect you know I'm not.

Finally, if we're going to call having good parents a lucky but rare event, even among the poor who in my memory were once known for their stable family structure, then our civilization is finished.

the fact this person got through all that s*** and is at this point means there's a little more something in 'em than you've got.

 

[aliziry]

Well, one can be an accident, of course. But two? That's a choice, or at least the result of a poor grasp on the concepts. It's incredibly patronizing to suggest that single mothers have no control over their reproductive functions and that the babies just appear, unlooked for and unsuspected.

Being a parent does not make you disadvantaged. You can chose to have sex, but you cant chose what family you are born into.That is my point. Whatever tangent you will soon go off into I dont care.

 

[8744]

Funny. No one is asking for a handout here. My fathers family too suffered during WW2 but I asume you did not suffer the way he did.The reason we want to take things like "a little hardship" into consideration is the fact that 95% of pre-med applicants never had much hardship. Those 5% that do are the cream of the crop. They dont go around "whining" and making excuses for their lives. The only reason this post started was because someone who I dont consider disadvantaged want to milk the system. "diversity and all of that happy horse****" you will be one hell of a MD.

No, I am an MD. And no, I don't worship Diversity or it's twin dieties Grievance and Envy.

 

[aliziry]

No, I am an MD. And no, I don't worship Diversity or it's twin dieties Grievance and Envy.

Interesting.Well at least you are honest. But of course like all conservatives you lump everyone into the same group. All people claiming disadvantaged are milking the system. Release your anger mate. Join the circle of love and togetherness.

 

[8744]

Interesting.Well at least you are honest. But of course like all conservatives you lump everyone into the same group. All people claiming disadvantaged are milking the system. Release your anger mate. Join the circle of love and togetherness.

As I am at Duke I can sing Kumbayah with the best of them.