applying as "disadvantaged"

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I have NO doubt that there are "disadvantaged" people applying. When I applied to college and med school I was "disadvantaged" also per the above quote from the HHS I guess im still disadvantaged even though my wife has a nice job. I can tell as good a story as ANYONE on here, all that being said my point is it is a slippery slope and just because you are disadvantaged why should you get ANY advantage? For every spot someone who is "disadvantaged" gets it is one fewer spot for someone who might have earned their spot advantaged or not.

As someone who is 1/2 black and 1/2 black arab what will you check? I assume black.

I am in med school. Actually I am 47 days away from graduating. So in 48 days I wont be in med school anymore.. Im psyched :)

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EctopicFetus said:
I have NO doubt that there are "disadvantaged" people applying. When I applied to college and med school I was "disadvantaged" also per the above quote from the HHS I guess im still disadvantaged even though my wife has a nice job. I can tell as good a story as ANYONE on here, all that being said my point is it is a slippery slope and just because you are disadvantaged why should you get ANY advantage? For every spot someone who is "disadvantaged" gets it is one fewer spot for someone who might have earned their spot advantaged or not.

As someone who is 1/2 black and 1/2 black arab what will you check? I assume black.

I am in med school. Actually I am 47 days away from graduating. So in 48 days I wont be in med school anymore.. Im psyched :)

I dont think the disadvantaged person will not have good qualifications compared to the rest of the applicants but who knows. But if there is a tie I would give the spot to the disadvantaged since they have alrady shown to deal with adversity. As per my race, my mother is from Nigerian and my father is half-Sudanese and half-Egyptian. I am not an african american (africans generally dont call themselves black).

Congrats on the pending graduation. I wish I was done already mate. Any thoughts on residency?
 
I never said anything about wanting any special treatment or as you put it leg up. The whole point of my question was that I was really concerned about my situation being a PROBLEM not an advantage. I don't agree with you the people from "disadvantaged backgrounds" get helped out by this process in fact I have been around long enough to know never to tell anyone about my background (besides my best friend) because of people like you, who immediately hear it and think I want something for nothing.

Based on all your responses there are obvioulsy many people who will always be sickened by people like me and where I come from, which is why I never share it. Now this has led to the reason I originally asked about the box, because how else do you suggest being honest or even just answering the questions? When amcas asked parent eduction and I say 7th grade, don't you think that will lead to questions? How do you then suggest I answer them, That was my point that I know it will be likely to come up in an interview and that it would seem insane to drop my story on an interviewer without any explanation before hand. In addition, why waste an interview having to explain my parents? But then again, I could get lucky and get an interviewer who goes on about crackheads and such and well you can see how that could be offensive and not conducive to such a good experience.

And believe it or not I too agree with you all about hard work, I too have been working more than 1 job at a time since I was 15, and not every person from a bad background tries to "use" it I never once mentioned it outside of any financial aid office in terms of getting into schools so yes I understand your distaste for checking the "box" hence my dilemma.

All I wanted was some constructive feedback not to have to defend all the "crackheads" of the world.
 
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michjen23 said:
Sanctuary,

I don't think going to anything but the cheapest public college in the country is needed in order for someone to have been disadvantaged. That is actually completely ridiculous since those schools barely offer any financial aid since they are so cheap their endowments and such are usually pretty weak so they simply don't have the money to put out for financial aid (yes I know this applies to most not all public schools).

YOU are the reason I don't know whether or not to apply as disadvantaged..people like you who believe that I didn't deserve to go to a private school because of my background. And for your information to go to my state school would have required MORE loans etc for me.

So according to you I should not check the disadvantaged box, because even though I have a parent in jail and the other one died, I was able to get into a great school and get a scholarship...but then how do you suggest I deal with it during INTERVIEWS when people casually discuss family all the time?


I agree with you. My mother is in jail for drugs and never really raised me. My father-I have never even met, who knows about him. My mom still says she doesn't even know who he is. I am as white as a ghost, yet I was homeless and starving many times in my life. I am still in the poverty threshold, but we at least eat and have a roof over our heads. There is more to being disadvantaged than your skin color.
 
Hope2010 said:
Ooh, what a fun equation!
Mine comes to $1,782 per person per year. No wonder we resorted to eating food out of the supermarket dumpster and wearing clothes that the thrift store gave away on "free" day. Somehow, though, I still felt a little guilty marking the Disadvantaged box on AMCAS. It's strange how a word that accurately defines my situation is not a word I like to use to define myself.
More specifically on topic, I think the definition of "Disadvantaged" has been left broad deliberately so that each person can assess their own life and decide whether to check the box or not. If it is a true description of what you have been through, mark it and explain it. But if you'd just be checking the box in hopes of getting bonus pity points, don't.

I hear you brother (or sister...)
 
Panda Bear said:
Well, one can be an accident, of course. But two? That's a choice, or at least the result of a poor grasp on the concepts. It's incredibly patronizing to suggest that single mothers have no control over their reproductive functions and that the babies just appear, unlooked for and unsuspected.

What about when your Gyn surgeon tells you it's a miracle you got pregnant after the horrible surgery your uterus endured, and that it's a one in a million chance. And then you are bf, on the mini pill, and they say that surely won't happen again? And then it does...
 
aliziry said:
I dont think the disadvantaged person will not have good qualifications compared to the rest of the applicants but who knows. But if there is a tie I would give the spot to the disadvantaged since they have alrady shown to deal with adversity. As per my race, my mother is from Nigerian and my father is half-Sudanese and half-Egyptian. I am not an african american (africans generally dont call themselves black).

Congrats on the pending graduation. I wish I was done already mate. Any thoughts on residency?

I would agree that if there was a theoretical tie then why not but reality is different.

As you might know the residency match came and went in april.. got my # 1 choice. Emergency medicine..

BTW whats up with the mate thing? I know I associate it with australia...
 
nm
 
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I never said anything about wanting any special treatment or as you put it leg up. The whole point of my question was that I was really concerned about my situation being a PROBLEM not an advantage. I don't agree with you the people from "disadvantaged backgrounds" get helped out by this process in fact I have been around long enough to know never to tell anyone about my background (besides my best friend) because of people like you, who immediately hear it and think I want something for nothing.
Why mention it if you dont want a leg up in the admission process?

Based on all your responses there are obvioulsy many people who will always be sickened by people like me and where I come from, which is why I never share it.
Get off your high freakin horse. I came from a less than ideal background as well. You think you sicken me? Give me a break and dont take so much credit.

Now this has led to the reason I originally asked about the box, because how else do you suggest being honest or even just answering the questions? When amcas asked parent eduction and I say 7th grade, don't you think that will lead to questions?
So you are a pre-med, I doubt they will care. I put that my mom has an AA and my dad a HS degree. So what..

How do you then suggest I answer them, That was my point that I know it will be likely to come up in an interview and that it would seem insane to drop my story on an interviewer without any explanation before hand. In addition, why waste an interview having to explain my parents? But then again, I could get lucky and get an interviewer who goes on about crackheads and such and well you can see how that could be offensive and not conducive to such a good experience.
While I must admit applying to med school was a long time ago I really doubt anyone cares about your parents in those interviews and my guess is that unless you bring it up they wont. They will likely care more about your thoughts on the healthcare system, why you got a B in some class or something interesting or cool you might have done.

And believe it or not I too agree with you all about hard work, I too have been working more than 1 job at a time since I was 15, and not every person from a bad background tries to "use" it I never once mentioned it outside of any financial aid office in terms of getting into schools so yes I understand your distaste for checking the "box" hence my dilemma. Thats great work hard and things will pay off. I worked 2 jobs at some points in my life, worked during my 1st yr of med school etc. I never brought it up during a single interview for med school or residency. I think once you have some more experience you will come to my side and while you might now like the whole crack head thing cause it strikes a little close to home you see that not everyone has it rosy.

All I wanted was some constructive feedback not to have to defend all the "crackheads" of the world.
Hopefully this was achieved..

BTW regardless of what you think of anything else I wrote here is the end all be all advice. No one in medicine wants an excuse maker, as such this might not be the best place to start. I cant tell you how many people during 3rd or 4th yr complain to residents and attendings because their schedule isnt fair etc, these people dont fair well...
 
dnw826 said:
I agree with you. My mother is in jail for drugs and never really raised me. My father-I have never even met, who knows about him. My mom still says she doesn't even know who he is. I am as white as a ghost, yet I was homeless and starving many times in my life. I am still in the poverty threshold, but we at least eat and have a roof over our heads. There is more to being disadvantaged than your skin color.
True dat but for the record since everyone wants to bash me, I never said otherwise.
 
aliziry said:
Congrats emergency medicine is a tough field. Oh and bout the mate thing, I learned English from commonwealth aid workers. So my English is a British, Irish, Scottish, Aussie, South African mess mate.

Gotcha mate.. Good luck getting into med school... I hear it is getting tougher and tougher but keep your head up and pursue your dreams and goals and dont let anyone tell you to do different. Like anything else in life, if you strive for it, and commit to it, you can have it.
 
"No one in medicine wants an excuse maker, as such this might not be the best place to start"

So what excuse have I made? Or are you just assuming I need to make an excuse for something?

"I really doubt anyone cares about your parents in those interviews and my guess is that unless you bring it up they wont."


The reality is that people ask about that stuff and I don't think there was any harm in wondering what others thought was a good way to approach that. I'm glad to know whatever I do not to be completely honest because people like you will have these bitter filled reactions.

So yes thank you for your honesty, I wouldn't want to offend people in my application since it seemed to stir up such strange emotional responses here.

take care
 
dnw826 said:
I agree with you. My mother is in jail for drugs and never really raised me. My father-I have never even met, who knows about him. My mom still says she doesn't even know who he is. I am as white as a ghost, yet I was homeless and starving many times in my life. I am still in the poverty threshold, but we at least eat and have a roof over our heads. There is more to being disadvantaged than your skin color.


It is funny so much criticism came from this post, but at least it was nice to here something like this too. It is so funny noone expects anyone who was ever homeless to be anything but an excuse maker, but look we are both here (and the irony of both having a mother in jail it is usually the other way around with father in jail :) )

So how to you approach/avoid the topic? I take the avoid tactic and managed to get through school without having to tell anyone about it all.

Good luck to you with whatever you are doing.
 
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To the OP:

Check disadvantaged. You can best believe those applicants whose moms and/or dads are physicians are going to let that be known for a leg up in the admissions process. Making an already "advantaged" situation even more advantaged. Why not try to make your playing field more equal?

Who cares what these social darwinists in this anonymous forum think?

Note to all:

It shows a hell of a lot more character for those with all the odds against them to make it up to the point of applying to med school than someone born with a "silver spoon" in his or her mouth. Sorry, it just does. That is not say, however, the more "affluent" didn't have to work hard.
 
Sanctuary said:
People like you (OP) make me smile. I can just imagine the look on the interviewers face when he's asking you about how you've been so disadvantaged in your life because at one point you got government food assistance, somewhere inbetween ivy league schools and full scholarships. I would hope that he/she would ask you, "So if you are so disadvantaged, what is someone who is born and raised in the projects, goes to an underfunded inner city high school, and graduates from the cheapest public school that is closest in distance to their 2nd job?"
And I would just say "More disadvantaged than me." :rolleyes: It's a continuum. Just because someone else is more disadvantaged than you doesn't mean that you're not disadvantaged at all.
 
TheProwler said:
And I would just say "More disadvantaged than me." :rolleyes: It's a continuum. Just because someone else is more disadvantaged than you doesn't mean that you're not disadvantaged at all.

This is my point. I was most def disadvantaged. I also dont remember whether or not this was an even an option when I applied. The thing is it is a slippery slope. if you check this box surely someone will ask you about it, if you dont no one will. No one asked me about my dad and his HS diploma and no one asked me about what it was like growing up in a family where my parents didnt speak english and basically worked their tails off to provide the basics.

While it annoys me to no end that people whose parents are physicians have a leg up thats just how it is (unfortunately) because they have access to other doctors, good research and not having to worry about making ends meat.

Like I said I dont know about this whole "disadvantaged" thing but I doubt checking this box will "even" things out.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Raven Feather said:
Note to all:

It shows a hell of a lot more character for those with all the odds against them to make it up to the point of applying to med school than someone born with a "silver spoon" in his or her mouth. Sorry, it just does. That is not say, however, the more "affluent" didn't have to work hard.
100% true.. overcoming "circumstances" is what I think will make me a better doc than others, I have seen it during my 3rd and 4th yr rotations where I relate better to my patients than most of my other classmates. I am 100% confident that this is due to my upbringing.

At my school we have something called the Gold humanism honor society which is basically a little less than 10% of our class who exemplifies excellence in pt care. I dont think any person in that is a doctors kid. Not to say this holds everywhere but it say something..

Jen, I wasnt trying to give you a hard time I was just simply saying that you have to be careful what you choose which is why you are in this thread. IMO med schools need more people who arent kids of docs and more minority docs (esp latino) (I am not a minority, but I am a kid of 2 non-docs). Even though I think those groups should have to earn their way in and the system should not lower the bar for these applicants.

Good luck to all you pre-meds who have been checking this thing. The process sux but the end rewards are great.
 
michjen23 said:
It is funny so much criticism came from this post, but at least it was nice to here something like this too. It is so funny noone expects anyone who was ever homeless to be anything but an excuse maker, but look we are both here (and the irony of both having a mother in jail it is usually the other way around with father in jail :) )

So how to you approach/avoid the topic? I take the avoid tactic and managed to get through school without having to tell anyone about it all.

Good luck to you with whatever you are doing.

I usually just don't talk about it. If it comes up, I let it be known that neither I nor she deserve sympathy. I have busted my behind making it through life and giving me something just out of sympathy would disgust me. I have worked too hard for that. I see so many little rich kids who try to get everything handed to them. So why would it be wrong to think that my ard work, experience, great grades and awards, and dedication should give me a little leg up (not hand out) against people who can pretty much buy their way into anywhere?

But I do think that it's important to let people on the admissions committee, etc, know about things like this. It lets them know that you have a lot of experience with diverse people. You may be able to relate to others better, and to get a world perspective. Plus you may be more likely to "give back more" because of how far you have come. Like with charity work, mission work, practicing with the poor and "disadvantaged". And one of the things with med school and residency is about facing obstacles and overcoming them prosperously (sp?). So in this way, I think that it is important to discuss if it comes up.
 
I usually just don't talk about it. If it comes up, I let it be known that neither I nor she deserve sympathy. I have busted my behind making it through life and giving me something just out of sympathy would disgust me. I have worked too hard for that. I see so many little rich kids who try to get everything handed to them. So why would it be wrong to think that my ard work, experience, great grades and awards, and dedication should give me a little leg up (not hand out) against people who can pretty much buy their way into anywhere?
I think everyone would agree that hard work, experience, grades, awards and dedication are all that matter.. Why would this give you a leg up? Shouldnt all students strive for this? What does this have to do with people who can buy their way in?

But I do think that it's important to let people on the admissions committee, etc, know about things like this. It lets them know that you have a lot of experience with diverse people. You may be able to relate to others better, and to get a world perspective. Plus you may be more likely to "give back more" because of how far you have come. Like with charity work, mission work, practicing with the poor and "disadvantaged". And one of the things with med school and residency is about facing obstacles and overcoming them prosperously (sp?). So in this way, I think that it is important to discuss if it comes up.
Interesting ideas.. I dont know if there is any proof to the idea that one group gives back more than the other. anyways why not use your PS to amplify your life experience. Thats where I did it. Perhaps getting into med school is becoming so nutso that this is what happens. IMO I dont think this will really matter or help in the process.
 
EctopicFetus said:
I think everyone would agree that hard work, experience, grades, awards and dedication are all that matter.. Why would this give you a leg up? Shouldnt all students strive for this? What does this have to do with people who can buy their way in?

Interesting ideas.. I dont know if there is any proof to the idea that one group gives back more than the other. anyways why not use your PS to amplify your life experience. Thats where I did it. Perhaps getting into med school is becoming so nutso that this is what happens. IMO I dont think this will really matter or help in the process.

I think that the only way it will give me a leg up is by my proving that I can make it against the odds and that I'm dedicated. I have had classes with SO many premeds that were born with the silver spoon in their mouths that get furious when they aren't offered hand outs. And then when they get pushed to their limits (as we so often do) they give up and switch to business-where the real money seems to be. And all the poor premeds I KNOW (can't speak for all-everyone is different) want to work with the poor and join DWB. The richy kids in my classes all want to be super rich private docs like their daddys. Want to work with the poor? Please, if you wear a non "name brand" to school, they look at you with disgust. Not all are like this, maybe just my schools that I have been to. But that is MY experience.
 
EctopicFetus said:
I think everyone would agree that hard work, experience, grades, awards and dedication are all that matter.. Why would this give you a leg up? Shouldnt all students strive for this? What does this have to do with people who can buy their way in?

Sigh. OK, I'll say it slowly so everyone can understand... Some students worked much harder and overcame much more to get that GPA, that award, that MCAT score. Some had to combine school and work; not by choice (like my loan-hatin' self) but for sheer survival. Others had to teach themselves academic discipline and foster their own intellect in early life, and never had the kind of stability that directly leads to later achievement - those things which those of us with good parents take for granted. They could not afford the thousands of dollars it costs to take MCAT prep courses that give you higher scores. Their level of dedication, and often their intellectual ability, is greater than that of easy-living students with equivalent stats.

People can and do buy their way into medical school - or, more accurately, their parents are generous donors and/or have connections. That is also "unfair" (if one considers fairness as a sheer stats competition) - yet that is considered the way of the world and is accepted. I certainly haven't seen many threads bashing this long-standing, terribly unfair practice. But try giving an advantage to poor or "disadvantaged" applicants, despite the very real justice and logic involved, and middle-class kids start screaming discrimination.

For those who are shocked at the anger and disdain expressed on this thread, the reason is simple: SDNers hate threads that suggest that anyone, anywhere, might be more deserving of a medical education than they are. Suitability for medicine, in the minds of many, boils down to mere numbers.

There is a prevalent myth in American society that states that every person is an island, and that they rise and fall based on their own merit alone: and furthermore, that their qualities and abilities are innate and would have been fully expressed under any life circumstances, no matter how horrid. I can easily imagine all the ways I could have turned out if my early life had been different, or if any number of fortunate events had happened any other way. I do not have the hubris, and it is hubris, to think that I would have gotten nearly as far as I have without lots of help and support (read: advantages) in my life.

Hats off to all the students who have managed to succeed despite a great many direct, difficult, unchosen obstacles to success.
 
dnw826 said:
I think that the only way it will give me a leg up is by my proving that I can make it against the odds and that I'm dedicated. I have had classes with SO many premeds that were born with the silver spoon in their mouths that get furious when they aren't offered hand outs. And then when they get pushed to their limits (as we so often do) they give up and switch to business-where the real money seems to be. And all the poor premeds I KNOW (can't speak for all-everyone is different) want to work with the poor and join DWB. The richy kids in my classes all want to be super rich private docs like their daddys. Want to work with the poor? Please, if you wear a non "name brand" to school, they look at you with disgust. Not all are like this, maybe just my schools that I have been to. But that is MY experience.

Well I can say that my life experience has been totally different. One of my college friends came from a priviledged background and she has done more good deeds than any other person I have ever met. this includes people who joined the peace corps etc. In many ways I think some of the rich kids do more because money is not an issue. I plan on volunteering my time and doing some good deeds but these priviledged students dont have to worry about paying 300K in loans back like I do.

Like I said I havent walked a mile in your shoes and you havent in mine but it seems like your school is a weird place.

BTW there has been a real interesting topic on if business is where the money is, I think its in the EM forum (my future specialty) really funny. Good luck...
 
Somehow no one else sees things like me. I dont know... here goes...

Sigh. OK, I'll say it slowly so everyone can understand... Some students worked much harder and overcame much more to get that GPA, that award, that MCAT score. Some had to combine school and work; not by choice (like my loan-hatin' self) but for sheer survival. Others had to teach themselves academic discipline and foster their own intellect in early life, and never had the kind of stability that directly leads to later achievement - those things which those of us with good parents take for granted. They could not afford the thousands of dollars it costs to take MCAT prep courses that give you higher scores. Their level of dedication, and often their intellectual ability, is greater than that of easy-living students with equivalent stats.
I worked, I will say though that my parents were rocks and kept me on the straight and narrow. I didnt drop $$ on prep courses because I didnt have the money. In the end why check a box? Your stats and "work experience" should say all you need to tell the admissions committee.


People can and do buy their way into medical school - or, more accurately, their parents are generous donors and/or have connections. That is also "unfair" (if one considers fairness as a sheer stats competition) - yet that is considered the way of the world and is accepted. I certainly haven't seen many threads bashing this long-standing, terribly unfair practice. But try giving an advantage to poor or "disadvantaged" applicants, despite the very real justice and logic involved, and middle-class kids start screaming discrimination.
I honestly think the whole buying your way in is a huge myth. Even if it is true it is maybe 1 student per class? I mean lets be serious here because if every rich person did this no one else would get into school but them.

Whats really interesting about this point is my giving an advantage to the disadvantaged doenst hurt little richie rich and his silver spoon but rather the middle class kid who isnt "fortunate" enough to check the box or "fortunate" enough to rely on his parents. Is that fair where is the justice there?


For those who are shocked at the anger and disdain expressed on this thread, the reason is simple: SDNers hate threads that suggest that anyone, anywhere, might be more deserving of a medical education than they are. Suitability for medicine, in the minds of many, boils down to mere numbers.
Since Im the only one defending this, keep in mind im close to graduating from med school and I dont think anyone "deserves" a medical education.


There is a prevalent myth in American society that states that every person is an island, and that they rise and fall based on their own merit alone: and furthermore, that their qualities and abilities are innate and would have been fully expressed under any life circumstances, no matter how horrid. I can easily imagine all the ways I could have turned out if my early life had been different, or if any number of fortunate events had happened any other way. I do not have the hubris, and it is hubris, to think that I would have gotten nearly as far as I have without lots of help and support (read: advantages) in my life.
Interesting thoughts the logic is flawed, if we really thought this would we have affirmative action? Clearly not.. Would be have the Americans with disabilities act? NO. I too have been fortunate because friends have been killed, friends have been jailed and friends have done many wrong and bad things. Any one of those things could have easily happened to me. Sure Im lucky but dont doubt making choices for yourself. I had the opportunity to go out and rob people and steal property, I chose not to. No one forces people to do things that are wrong, the idea that too many people fail to respect is personal responsibility. You have the opportunity to determine where your life goes.

Hats off to all the students who have managed to succeed despite a great many direct, difficult, unchosen obstacles to success.

Thanks so much... Only 45 more days to graduation.. Cant wait to see mom and dad crying!
 
trustwomen said:
Sigh. OK, I'll say it slowly so everyone can understand... Some students worked much harder and overcame much more to get that GPA, that award, that MCAT score. Some had to combine school and work; not by choice (like my loan-hatin' self) but for sheer survival. Others had to teach themselves academic discipline and foster their own intellect in early life, and never had the kind of stability that directly leads to later achievement - those things which those of us with good parents take for granted. They could not afford the thousands of dollars it costs to take MCAT prep courses that give you higher scores. Their level of dedication, and often their intellectual ability, is greater than that of easy-living students with equivalent stats.

People can and do buy their way into medical school - or, more accurately, their parents are generous donors and/or have connections. That is also "unfair" (if one considers fairness as a sheer stats competition) - yet that is considered the way of the world and is accepted. I certainly haven't seen many threads bashing this long-standing, terribly unfair practice. But try giving an advantage to poor or "disadvantaged" applicants, despite the very real justice and logic involved, and middle-class kids start screaming discrimination.

For those who are shocked at the anger and disdain expressed on this thread, the reason is simple: SDNers hate threads that suggest that anyone, anywhere, might be more deserving of a medical education than they are. Suitability for medicine, in the minds of many, boils down to mere numbers.

There is a prevalent myth in American society that states that every person is an island, and that they rise and fall based on their own merit alone: and furthermore, that their qualities and abilities are innate and would have been fully expressed under any life circumstances, no matter how horrid. I can easily imagine all the ways I could have turned out if my early life had been different, or if any number of fortunate events had happened any other way. I do not have the hubris, and it is hubris, to think that I would have gotten nearly as far as I have without lots of help and support (read: advantages) in my life.

Hats off to all the students who have managed to succeed despite a great many direct, difficult, unchosen obstacles to success.

I whole-heartedly agree! Awesome post.
 
EctopicFetus said:
Somehow no one else sees things like me. I dont know... here goes...

I worked, I will say though that my parents were rocks and kept me on the straight and narrow. I didnt drop $$ on prep courses because I didnt have the money. In the end why check a box? Your stats and "work experience" should say all you need to tell the admissions committee.


I honestly think the whole buying your way in is a huge myth. Even if it is true it is maybe 1 student per class? I mean lets be serious here because if every rich person did this no one else would get into school but them.

Whats really interesting about this point is my giving an advantage to the disadvantaged doenst hurt little richie rich and his silver spoon but rather the middle class kid who isnt "fortunate" enough to check the box or "fortunate" enough to rely on his parents. Is that fair where is the justice there?


Since Im the only one defending this, keep in mind im close to graduating from med school and I dont think anyone "deserves" a medical education.


Interesting thoughts the logic is flawed, if we really thought this would we have affirmative action? Clearly not.. Would be have the Americans with disabilities act? NO. I too have been fortunate because friends have been killed, friends have been jailed and friends have done many wrong and bad things. Any one of those things could have easily happened to me. Sure Im lucky but dont doubt making choices for yourself. I had the opportunity to go out and rob people and steal property, I chose not to. No one forces people to do things that are wrong, the idea that too many people fail to respect is personal responsibility. You have the opportunity to determine where your life goes.



Thanks so much... Only 45 more days to graduation.. Cant wait to see mom and dad crying!


Congrats on your achievement. I'm sure your parents are proud!
 
dnw826 said:
I think that the only way it will give me a leg up is by my proving that I can make it against the odds and that I'm dedicated. I have had classes with SO many premeds that were born with the silver spoon in their mouths that get furious when they aren't offered hand outs. And then when they get pushed to their limits (as we so often do) they give up and switch to business-where the real money seems to be. And all the poor premeds I KNOW (can't speak for all-everyone is different) want to work with the poor and join DWB. The richy kids in my classes all want to be super rich private docs like their daddys. Want to work with the poor? Please, if you wear a non "name brand" to school, they look at you with disgust. Not all are like this, maybe just my schools that I have been to. But that is MY experience.


I second that!
 
EctopicFetus said:
Well I can say that my life experience has been totally different. One of my college friends came from a priviledged background and she has done more good deeds than any other person I have ever met. this includes people who joined the peace corps etc. In many ways I think some of the rich kids do more because money is not an issue. I plan on volunteering my time and doing some good deeds but these priviledged students dont have to worry about paying 300K in loans back like I do.

Like I said I havent walked a mile in your shoes and you havent in mine but it seems like your school is a weird place.

BTW there has been a real interesting topic on if business is where the money is, I think its in the EM forum (my future specialty) really funny. Good luck...

That's great! I do know a couple of people from "advantaged" backgrounds, and that is truly awesome, but they are few and far between. But jeez, do we need more like you!
 
EctopicFetus said:
Somehow no one else sees things like me. I dont know... here goes...

I worked, I will say though that my parents were rocks and kept me on the straight and narrow. I didnt drop $$ on prep courses because I didnt have the money. In the end why check a box? Your stats and "work experience" should say all you need to tell the admissions committee.


I honestly think the whole buying your way in is a huge myth. Even if it is true it is maybe 1 student per class? I mean lets be serious here because if every rich person did this no one else would get into school but them.

Whats really interesting about this point is my giving an advantage to the disadvantaged doenst hurt little richie rich and his silver spoon but rather the middle class kid who isnt "fortunate" enough to check the box or "fortunate" enough to rely on his parents. Is that fair where is the justice there?


Since Im the only one defending this, keep in mind im close to graduating from med school and I dont think anyone "deserves" a medical education.


Interesting thoughts the logic is flawed, if we really thought this would we have affirmative action? Clearly not.. Would be have the Americans with disabilities act? NO. I too have been fortunate because friends have been killed, friends have been jailed and friends have done many wrong and bad things. Any one of those things could have easily happened to me. Sure Im lucky but dont doubt making choices for yourself. I had the opportunity to go out and rob people and steal property, I chose not to. No one forces people to do things that are wrong, the idea that too many people fail to respect is personal responsibility. You have the opportunity to determine where your life goes.



Thanks so much... Only 45 more days to graduation.. Cant wait to see mom and dad crying!




Ectopic, come on you are really being a bit too much here with this. You say one minute "I will say though that my parents were rocks and kept me on the straight and narrow" and then the next you are saying " Any one of those things could have easily happened to me. Sure Im lucky but dont doubt making choices for yourself. "

I don't doubt making choices for myself but what you have said countless times is how hard your parents worked not only to feed you but to make sure you didn't get into the wrong crowd during HS so that they could some day cry at your graduation. I think it is wonderful that your parents worked so hard for you. But why have you assumed that because my parents didn't do anythign to raise me that I have some excuse to make or that I don't take responsibility for my own actions? I think life is all about choices and taking charge of your life, which is why I was here trying to make yet another choice (of the iron haha come on Ectopic smile once please :) )
 
dnw826 said:
That's great! I do know a couple of people from "advantaged" backgrounds, and that is truly awesome, but they are few and far between. But jeez, do we need more like you!


I think he might just have a case of the middle class johnny being afraid everyone but him is getting something for nothing (you know the kind that thinks the rich kid gets it all for nothing from the parents and the poor lowly pathetic children of scum balls get it all for nothing from the government not to mention every bar on the planet lowered for them...) Now we all know the reality that everyone works hard and each life has it's own challenges.
 
EctopicFetus said:
I worked, I will say though that my parents were rocks and kept me on the straight and narrow. I didnt drop $$ on prep courses because I didnt have the money. In the end why check a box? Your stats and "work experience" should say all you need to tell the admissions committee.
But if you are disadvantaged, your stats will not really reflect your ability or your intelligence. Non-medical work experience carries little weight with adcomms. When I applied, four schools simply refused me because I was not in school full-time, without taking into consideration that I was also working full-time. (I'm not a disadvantaged applicant, I chose to work to avoid loans.) You did well on the MCAT without dropping cash, but don't you think that means that you are actually smarter than the kid who spent 4 entire months (and several thousand bucks) getting his hand held by Kaplan in order to get that same score? Yet on paper, you look the same. The box is there so that adcomms know that your 32 (or whatever) was achieved without the "perks" that are standard nowadays for med school applicants. Go to the MCAT threads - nearly everyone has spent a whole lot of time and money studying (sometimes doing nothing else for a whole summer) to improve their score. If you can't do that for financial reasons, wouldn't you like that to be reflected on your application, so your hard-earned 32 will be worth as much as the other kid's coached 33? The same goes for GPA - a 3.7 earned while working 30 hours a week, or while dealing with a messed-up parent and moving to three different foster homes that year, is more impressive to me than a 3.8 from someone living in a stable home where all they have to do is school.

And when you say your parents were rocks, that counts for so much more than you might think. My mum was a rock too. It's a HUGE advantage; I wish every child had at least one parent like that. But there are those who don't; and if they graduate HS, get into college and do well enough to apply to med school, well, that's amazing and they deserve to be rewarded.

EctopicFetus said:
I honestly think the whole buying your way in is a huge myth. Even if it is true it is maybe 1 student per class? I mean lets be serious here because if every rich person did this no one else would get into school but them.
How many disadvantaged students get in every year? Not many either. I saw data saying that only 20% of med students were from the lowest 60% parental income brackets, whereas 60% of med students were from the highest 20% bracket. I don't think buying your way in is a myth. I think that it happens more subtly than that, of course, but nobody seems to complain about the "legacy" box... Rich parents can donate to the school, can get tutors to bring up a flagging GPA, can let pwecious take the whole summer off in order to "be all they can be" on MCAT day... and of course, they often personally know the higher-ups... people that a junkie dad probably wouldn't be able to get access to. If he could be bothered to get off the couch in the first place.

EctopicFetus said:
Whats really interesting about this point is my giving an advantage to the disadvantaged doenst hurt little richie rich and his silver spoon but rather the middle class kid who isnt "fortunate" enough to check the box or "fortunate" enough to rely on his parents. Is that fair where is the justice there?
I honestly don't think that there are that many people getting in this way - and most would probably have gotten in without it anyway. And again, if the middle-class kid with the prepped 30 MCAT and tutored 3.6 GPA loses his place to the disadvantaged kid with a 29 and a 3.5, I think that is justice; the disadvantaged kid worked much harder, and is probably smarter, than the middle-class kid.

EctopicFetus said:
Since Im the only one defending this, keep in mind im close to graduating from med school and I dont think anyone/I] "deserves" a medical education.

Congratulations! I wasn't actually referring to you specifically, there were others posting on the earlier pages who got my goat much more. Kudos to you for continuing the conversation and for being respectful to the participants.

EctopicFetus said:
Interesting thoughts the logic is flawed, if we really thought this would we have affirmative action? Clearly not.. Would be have the Americans with disabilities act? NO.
And are those two pieces of legislation not hotly debated, hard-won, and currently in serious danger? They are by no means settled issues in the U.S. - because there is this wave I described, individualism taken to extremes, which denies the need for (and usefulness of) these kinds of collectivist initiatives.

EctopicFetus said:
I too have been fortunate because friends have been killed, friends have been jailed and friends have done many wrong and bad things. Any one of those things could have easily happened to me. Sure Im lucky but dont doubt making choices for yourself. I had the opportunity to go out and rob people and steal property, I chose not to. No one forces people to do things that are wrong, the idea that too many people fail to respect is personal responsibility. You have the opportunity to determine where your life goes.
As you say, your parents were rocks and taught you proper values. I don't think you get to check "disadvantaged" if you did "many wrong and bad things", or you have a criminal record, etc. It isn't about what you chose, it's about what you had to overcome - the unchosen circumstances of your birth and childhood. The parents of disadvantaged applicants did indeed often make terrible choices - the purpose of the box is to ensure that their innocent, good-choice-making children are not penalized for it. As for self-determination of your entire life... you can indeed determine whether you will commit crimes or not, but some people have less control than others over their academic stats; they have to work, they don't have a safe environment to sleep, study, or concentrate; they have to (not choose to) deal with a lot of **** in their lives. Why not recognize this, for the precious few who do manage to make good choices and work hard towards a dream?
 
trustwomen said:
[snip]

There is a prevalent myth in American society that states that every person is an island, and that they rise and fall based on their own merit alone: and furthermore, that their qualities and abilities are innate and would have been fully expressed under any life circumstances, no matter how horrid. I can easily imagine all the ways I could have turned out if my early life had been different, or if any number of fortunate events had happened any other way. I do not have the hubris, and it is hubris, to think that I would have gotten nearly as far as I have without lots of help and support (read: advantages) in my life.

Hats off to all the students who have managed to succeed despite a great many direct, difficult, unchosen obstacles to success.
:thumbup:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060427/us_nm/economy_mobility_dc_3
Rags-to-riches dream an illusion: study

The likelihood that a child born into a poor family will make it into the top five percent is just one percent, according to "Understanding Mobility in America," a study by economist Tom Hertz from American University.

By contrast, a child born rich had a 22 percent chance of being rich as an adult, he said.

"In other words, the chances of getting rich are about 20 times higher if you are born rich than if you are born in a low-income family," he told an audience at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank sponsoring the work.

[snip]

Recent studies have highlighted growing income inequality in the United States, but Americans remain highly optimistic about the odds for economic improvement in their own lifetime.

A survey for the New York Times last year found that 80 percent of those polled believed that it was possible to start out poor, work hard and become rich, compared with less than 60 percent back in 1983.

This contradiction, implying that while people think they are going to make it, the reality is very different, has been seized by critics of President Bush to pound the White House over tax cuts they say favor the rich.

Hertz examined channels transmitting income across generations and identified education as the single largest factor, explaining 30 percent of the income-correlation, in an argument to boost public access to universities.
 
dnw826 said:
That's great! I do know a couple of people from "advantaged" backgrounds, and that is truly awesome, but they are few and far between. But jeez, do we need more like you!

man sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread. I am on call for my medicine sub-i (last rotation pregraduation), and im getting slammed with new admits, and pts who dont want togo home prob cause they like me too much:)...

Thanks for the above props... just making it through one day at a time... So here goes..
 
Ectopic, come on you are really being a bit too much here with this. You say one minute "I will say though that my parents were rocks and kept me on the straight and narrow" and then the next you are saying " Any one of those things could have easily happened to me. Sure Im lucky but dont doubt making choices for yourself. "
:thumbup:


I don't doubt making choices for myself but what you have said countless times is how hard your parents worked not only to feed you but to make sure you didn't get into the wrong crowd during HS so that they could some day cry at your graduation. I think it is wonderful that your parents worked so hard for you.
Good point.. but... there are 2 different issues here. Hey honestly without my parents whuppin my fetal behind I dont know if things would have turned out like they did for me. Also I would be lying if i said there wasnt some luck involved with me meeting influential people at the right moments in my life. All that being said I would guess many of you know someone like this.. (a friend of mine) Both sisters went to top notch schools, have great jobs etc. he is the youngest of the 3, same parents everything else the same.. He hasnt had a real job (or any job for most of the time) since HS (Im c/o 95). He lies all the time and smokes week nonstop. He smokes weed while he "works". His parents also sacrificed but he made bad choices. Also he was from what I would consider a privildged background. anyways.. im just saying the 2 things dont go hand in hand.

But why have you assumed that because my parents didn't do anythign to raise me that I have some excuse to make or that I don't take responsibility for my own actions? I think life is all about choices and taking charge of your life, which is why I was here trying to make yet another choice (of the iron haha come on Ectopic smile once please :) )
ok.. I NEVER made any personal mention of anyone on here. I never said you didnt/dont take responsibilities for your actions. I have to be honest that many of these types of discussions go down the toilet so im impressed everyone has been cool. Like I said before on this thread and a million times in life is what we (society) need are more docs who are regular people and not the kids of priviledged people. But this should be done based on merit and not some discriminatory process. IMO (big generalization coming) the kids of the wealthy tend to make mediocore doctors, they dont have the drive etc. The thing is nothing on an application can show otherwise. Hey its great you worked your way through school but that doesnt mean diddle as to how you will perform in the hospital in the end there is no reasonable way to measure this so IMO adcoms are stuck with a mixture of stats and activities. The real shame is that "life experience" is more valuable than shadowing some doc (who is your daddy's friend) or sitting in some crap hole lab mixing reagants.

For my EM interviews they loved :love: my background my experience and my personality. I can relate to patients and regardless of how I may come across on SDN I am compassionate and caring for my patients. (I got selected to be a member of the gold humanism honor society). I know none of you care about that stuff now as the goal is getting in.

next... :D
 
michjen23 said:
I think he might just have a case of the middle class johnny being afraid everyone but him is getting something for nothing (you know the kind that thinks the rich kid gets it all for nothing from the parents and the poor lowly pathetic children of scum balls get it all for nothing from the government not to mention every bar on the planet lowered for them...)
I like to look at things as if i were in someone elses shoe. Middle class johnny also represents the uninsured in the US. Sure give free health care to the poor... and of course the rich can afford it, but man get a low paying job and you are screwed, where is the incentive there. Life isnt all roses for any of us and I have NO doubt some people have it much harder than others (like some of the people on this thread) but how can you really tell the story on a peice of paper. you cant.... and then you just get clumped together with the liars and cheats hoping to find an easier way into med school.

Now we all know the reality that everyone works hard and each life has it's own challenges
. Very wise.. Maybe the rich kid didnt get the proper love and affection from mommy and daddy and (we all know or have seen someone like this) he turns 16 and he is driving YOUR dream car. Mommy and daddy had to make up for being absent and the only way they know how is with $$$.
 
This is gonna take a while.. Im amazed I havent been paged in 15 mins.. a new record... here goes..

Surely you dont believe this. BTW how did you know my mcat.. it was indeed a 32....
But if you are disadvantaged, your stats will not really reflect your ability or your intelligence. Non-medical work experience carries little weight with adcomms. When I applied, four schools simply refused me because I was not in school full-time, without taking into consideration that I was also working full-time. (I'm not a disadvantaged applicant, I chose to work to avoid loans.) You did well on the MCAT without dropping cash, but don't you think that means that you are actually smarter than the kid who spent 4 entire months (and several thousand bucks) getting his hand held by Kaplan in order to get that same score? Yet on paper, you look the same.
Perhaps this is true, and sadly (as I said before they dont weigh life experience enough.. but if you have a 32 MCAT and a 3.6 you will get into med school. that should be enough. Maybe richie rich gets into a better school I dont know but in the end you will interview better because you arent a tooly douchebag.
The box is there so that adcomms know that your 32 (or whatever) was achieved without the "perks" that are standard nowadays for med school applicants. Go to the MCAT threads - nearly everyone has spent a whole lot of time and money studying (sometimes doing nothing else for a whole summer) to improve their score. If you can't do that for financial reasons, wouldn't you like that to be reflected on your application, so your hard-earned 32 will be worth as much as the other kid's coached 33? The same goes for GPA - a 3.7 earned while working 30 hours a week, or while dealing with a messed-up parent and moving to three different foster homes that year, is more impressive to me than a 3.8 from someone living in a stable home where all they have to do is school.
Do you really think they care? maybe im too far removed and too jaded but I dont think the adcoms care about this box. They dont care because maybe richie felt disadvantaged because one summer he had to go to martha's vineyard instead of sailing in MD during the summer? Iknow there are some bs critieria but IIRC it is like did you feel disadvantaged? Maybe on a scale of 1-10 I was
a 7 on the disdvantaged scale and some of you are 10's and others are 2's I dont think the adcoms will spend enough time discerning which is which.

And when you say your parents were rocks, that counts for so much more than you might think. My mum was a rock too. It's a HUGE advantage; I wish every child had at least one parent like that. But there are those who don't; and if they graduate HS, get into college and do well enough to apply to med school, well, that's amazing and they deserve to be rewarded.
Hell F yeah..I think its a huge advantage.. but rewarded? why? why do med schools or the govt or anyone else owe you something? Sure life sucked and like the famous quote "that which does not kill me will only make me stronger" thats the reward. I honestly hope all of you get in med school (because we need more peoplefrom lower and middle class backgrounds) but this sense of I got the short stick so help me out is not right. Earn it, it might be that much harder but that much sweeter at the end too. When i found out I got into med school I cried.. I dont usually cry but I knew how hard I worked for it and everything that happened to me and it was a great moment of reflection.... dont take this away from yourself.(I know many of you wont agree but this is just simply my opinion)

How many disadvantaged students get in every year? Not many either. I saw data saying that only 20% of med students were from the lowest 60% parental income brackets, whereas 60% of med students were from the highest 20% bracket. I don't think buying your way in is a myth.
This shouldnt be surprising. Doctors make doctors and lawyers make lawyers.. How many of the bottom 60% of parental incomeshave HS and college degrees and compare that to the richest. Clearly they have more opportunities. They know people and can guide their childrento do the right and smart things. I ended up at a top notch undergrad out of sheer stupidity and dumb ass luck.. Same for my wife. Why did we almost end up elsewhere? Our parents didnt know what was best they only saw the increased cost and doubted its worth. For me and Mrs Fetus it was well worth it.

I think that it happens more subtly than that, of course, but nobody seems to complain about the "legacy" box
1st this legacy "bs" is 100x worse than the disadvantaged thing. So harvard should accept you because your daddy or granddaddy was smart? Completely and utterly ridiculous. I went to a great undergrad and so did my wife.. I would love for the baby fetus' to go there. My children (when I have them) will not be checking these boxes.. Earn it, nothing thats worhtwhile is easy.(Im racking up the sayings)..

Rich parents can donate to the school, can get tutors to bring up a flagging GPA, can let pwecious take the whole summer off in order to "be all they can be" on MCAT day... and of course, they often personally know the higher-ups... people that a junkie dad probably wouldn't be able to get access to. If he could be bothered to get off the couch in the first place.
Cant argue this.. though its not like there is a society of the rich where al lrich people know one another.. if there is they havent invited me, maybe they are waiting until i reach attending-dom... hmmm? Maybe they wont like me because i volunteer? Anyone with info... PM me... :laugh: (im kidding of course) :D

I honestly don't think that there are that many people getting in this way - and most would probably have gotten in without it anyway. And again, if the middle-class kid with the prepped 30 MCAT and tutored 3.6 GPA loses his place to the disadvantaged kid with a 29 and a 3.5, I think that is justice; the disadvantaged kid worked much harder, and is probably smarter, than the middle-class kid.
The reality is there isnt much of a way to differentiate applicants. I really want to agree with you but I would feel better if the rich got screwed more than the middle class. I mean i grew up "lower"income until I was about 17 then my parents "became" (they drank a magical potion) middle class. Should my 16 y/o sister get screwed? She was lower income for 6-7 yrs?
Congratulations! I wasn't actually referring to you specifically, there were others posting on the earlier pages who got my goat much more. Kudos to you for continuing the conversation and for being respectful to the participants.
Thank you. IMO these forums should be for respectful discussion and while I am sure people on here hate me, believe me I am just like you...I faced tons of bs and had to sacrifice a lot..

And are those two pieces of legislation not hotly debated, hard-won, and currently in serious danger? They are by no means settled issues in the U.S. - because there is this wave I described, individualism taken to extremes, which denies the need for (and usefulness of) these kinds of collectivist initiatives.
Sorry i cut out what you were referring to and the old pager is blowing up...

As you say, your parents were rocks and taught you proper values. I don't think you get to check "disadvantaged" if you did "many wrong and bad things", or you have a criminal record, etc. It isn't about what you chose, it's about what you had to overcome - the unchosen circumstances of your birth and childhood. The parents of disadvantaged applicants did indeed often make terrible choices - the purpose of the box is to ensure that their innocent, good-choice-making children are not penalized for it.
My parents didnt do anything bad but try to escape oppresion and legally migrate here.
As for self-determination of your entire life... you can indeed determine whether you will commit crimes or not, but some people have less control than others over their academic stats; they have to work, they don't have a safe environment to sleep, study, or concentrate; they have to (not choose to) deal with a lot of **** in their lives. Why not recognize this, for the precious few who do manage to make good choices and work hard towards a dream?
There are 1-2 applicants a yr like this. The majority of the box checkers are NOT these people.. Look in this thread.. Checking some box isnt gonna show it but their PS and interview will. Maybe growing up in miami was more cush than I thought.. although recently I read over 30% of poeple live below the poverty line...
 
EctopicFetus said:
For my EM interviews they loved :love: my background my experience and my personality. I can relate to patients and regardless of how I may come across on SDN I am compassionate and caring for my patients. (I got selected to be a member of the gold humanism honor society). I know none of you care about that stuff now as the goal is getting in.

I just got in :D so this is actually really interesting to me. I'm interested in EM (though I might fall in love with something else, in the end), and it's nice to know that they take background into consideration for these things!

I'm glad to know that there are humanist docs out there.

p.s. I had no idea your MCAT was 32 - lucky guess? Latent psychic ability? :)
 
trustwomen said:
I just got in :D so this is actually really interesting to me. I'm interested in EM (though I might fall in love with something else, in the end), and it's nice to know that they take background into consideration for these things!

I'm glad to know that there are humanist docs out there.

p.s. I had no idea your MCAT was 32 - lucky guess? Latent psychic ability? :)
Latent psychic EM ability.. who knows....Congrats on the acceptance. Now you have to make sure you maintain your ideals, morals and beliefs because believe me they will be challenged..

Best of luck.. if you have Qs pm me anytime..
 
EctopicFetus said:
Congrats on the acceptance. Now you have to make sure you maintain your ideals, morals and beliefs because believe me they will be challenged..

I've been a social worker for the past eight years; believe me, my ideals have been challenged a whole lot. I have, in fact, altered my worldview; but I am still quite idealistic. I just lost the hubris ("I can change the whole world all by myself!!!").
 
EctopicFetus said:
where did u get in?
McGill, BABY!!! :D (I therefore think is the best school in the universe, of course, but the rankings here also put it first in the country - tying with, and sometimes being overtaken by, U of Toronto).
 
:clap:
trustwomen said:
McGill, BABY!!! :D (I therefore think is the best school in the universe, of course, but the rankings here also put it first in the country - tying with, and sometimes being overtaken by, U of Toronto).
Congrats.. doesnt matter what its ranked... :clap:
 
trustwomen said:
McGill, BABY!!! :D (I therefore think is the best school in the universe, of course, but the rankings here also put it first in the country - tying with, and sometimes being overtaken by, U of Toronto).



CONGRATS~!
 
Raven Feather said:
To the OP:

Check disadvantaged. You can best believe those applicants whose moms and/or dads are physicians are going to let that be known for a leg up in the admissions process. Making an already "advantaged" situation even more advantaged. Why not try to make your playing field more equal?

Who cares what these social darwinists in this anonymous forum think?

Note to all:

It shows a hell of a lot more character for those with all the odds against them to make it up to the point of applying to med school than someone born with a "silver spoon" in his or her mouth. Sorry, it just does. That is not say, however, the more "affluent" didn't have to work hard.

I think its hilarious that you have so much contempt for children of physicians. Don't you plan to have children of your own someday, if you don't already? How is your blind contempt for the upper class any different from the attitudes of the "social darwinists"?

I plan to do everything I can to give my children alot of things that I didn't have growing up, even if it means that self-righteous clowns in anonymous forums will deride them for it in the event they want to apply to medical school. Why is it that when the upper class wants to go to med school, it is assumed that it is because of desire for prestige or money and when the lower class wants to go to med school it is because they "want to work with the poor", as they are the only people who can "relate" to them?
 
dnw826 said:
I think that the only way it will give me a leg up is by my proving that I can make it against the odds and that I'm dedicated. I have had classes with SO many premeds that were born with the silver spoon in their mouths that get furious when they aren't offered hand outs. And then when they get pushed to their limits (as we so often do) they give up and switch to business-where the real money seems to be. And all the poor premeds I KNOW (can't speak for all-everyone is different) want to work with the poor and join DWB. The richy kids in my classes all want to be super rich private docs like their daddys. Want to work with the poor? Please, if you wear a non "name brand" to school, they look at you with disgust. Not all are like this, maybe just my schools that I have been to. But that is MY experience.

my above post was actually in response to this one.

Probably one of the more offensive posts I've come across in this forum. Maybe you should invest some money in a big wooden cross, so that when these "richy kids" take time out from money grabbing to persecute you some more, you can just crawl right on up there.
 
McDoctor said:
my above post was actually in response to this one.

Probably one of the more offensive posts I've come across in this forum. Maybe you should invest some money in a big wooden cross, so that when these "richy kids" take time out from money grabbing to persecute you some more, you can just crawl right on up there.

Wow, somebody in a bad mood? The most offensive, eh? Haven't read much then. I am sorry that there are rich kids out there who me off and that you obviously have never had to face the fact that some people are the "haves" and some the "have nots". And didn't I say that not everyone was like that, just most I have experienced? I can't believe my post offended you that badly. Aren't there more important things to get all riled up about? :rolleyes:

Oh, and I'm Jewish, so I'm not all into the cruxifix scene.
 
McDoctor said:
I think its hilarious that you have so much contempt for children of physicians. Don't you plan to have children of your own someday, if you don't already? How is your blind contempt for the upper class any different from the attitudes of the "social darwinists"?

I plan to do everything I can to give my children alot of things that I didn't have growing up, even if it means that self-righteous clowns in anonymous forums will deride them for it in the event they want to apply to medical school. Why is it that when the upper class wants to go to med school, it is assumed that it is because of desire for prestige or money and when the lower class wants to go to med school it is because they "want to work with the poor", as they are the only people who can "relate" to them?

Self righteous clown? I quite like that title. Except that I am terrified of clowns...

And not all rich kids are in it for money and prestige, as we have been discussing. Just some. Have you talked to a lot of Drs. and med school drop outs/residents. Once you get in, you realize that it's a whole lot more work than some people are willing to go through. Especially when they can make the big money in other places. The ones that stick it out are awesome. Takes a lot. And I do know some lower class med students who are in it for the money. I don't believe that I ever said all of them want to work with the poor. Just that when you've been through some things you tend to be more compassionate with certain issues. Poverty, for example.
 
dnw826 said:
Wow, somebody in a bad mood? The most offensive, eh? Haven't read much then. I am sorry that there are rich kids out there who me off and that you obviously have never had to face the fact that some people are the "haves" and some the "have nots". And didn't I say that not everyone was like that, just most I have experienced? I can't believe my post offended you that badly. Aren't there more important things to get all riled up about? :rolleyes:

Oh, and I'm Jewish, so I'm not all into the cruxifix scene.

I was pretty tired and in a bad mood when I posted. Sorry if the post seemed a little venomous. Glad to see you didn't really take much offense. I do think you'll be a great doc based on your experiences from reading your posts. I'll try to save my vitriol for the conservatives in the Dr.'s Lounge. ;)
 
Winston Churchill said people who are young and conservative have no heart and people who are old and liberal have no brain.

Food for thought..
 
hello all, I'm working on my application and am unsure of whether I should apply as disadvantaged or not. I wrote my essay so if you guys could read it and let me know if you think I qualify or not id really appreciate it!

As the poorest country in South America, Bolivia never held opportunities for my family and I. I grew up in one of the larger cities—considered a smaller town in the United States—where medicine and education constantly ranked nearly last among the Western Hemisphere countries. My father, a physician, barely made $2,000 a month to provide for a wife and three children. Although my brother and I were lucky to attend one of the better schools, education was often interrupted by constant political and economical riots due to the repressive nature of our government. When we moved to the United States, my father’s salary dramatically improved to about $220,000/year. I moved to a town where education was held to the utmost importance and the freedom in this country was never taken for granted. Through high school and college, however, my social standing has been a barrier to possible friendships and connections. Labeled as “Mexican” or “illegal immigrant” for speaking Spanish, I have been the victim of bullying and countless ignorant jokes about my ethnicity. The hardships I’ve been through and my sudden change in political, economical, and educational status allow me to take pride in my roots and to deeply value the support I get from family, making me more motivated to achieve my dream of going into medicine.
 
hello all, I'm working on my application and am unsure of whether I should apply as disadvantaged or not. I wrote my essay so if you guys could read it and let me know if you think I qualify or not id really appreciate it!

As the poorest country in South America, Bolivia never held opportunities for my family and I. I grew up in one of the larger cities—considered a smaller town in the United States—where medicine and education constantly ranked nearly last among the Western Hemisphere countries. My father, a physician, barely made $2,000 a month to provide for a wife and three children. Although my brother and I were lucky to attend one of the better schools, education was often interrupted by constant political and economical riots due to the repressive nature of our government. When we moved to the United States, my father’s salary dramatically improved to about $220,000/year. I moved to a town where education was held to the utmost importance and the freedom in this country was never taken for granted. Through high school and college, however, my social standing has been a barrier to possible friendships and connections. Labeled as “Mexican” or “illegal immigrant” for speaking Spanish, I have been the victim of bullying and countless ignorant jokes about my ethnicity. The hardships I’ve been through and my sudden change in political, economical, and educational status allow me to take pride in my roots and to deeply value the support I get from family, making me more motivated to achieve my dream of going into medicine.
Good story but don't play the victim too much. Talk a little bit about your past and struggles. Don't include your fathers income. Talk about your achievement even while u struggled . They want to know how matured you are. PM me I can guide u thru it


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