Are some medical schools harder than others?

[MA20007]

Hi all! I'm not sure if this has been covered before, but are some medical schools harder than others? Is it a bad idea to go to a top-tier school if I'm going to be in the bottom of the class--even if the first two years are P/F? I wonder if I would get a better education by working/studying with people who are more on my level. Does going to a top 20 vs. a top 50 school even matter?

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[redpanda]

Pass/fail is not something you should make a school selection decision on, and, in my opinion, it is way oversold. Unless you were that person who was always going to be sitting on the honors-pass line, it doesn't really matter because you're probably going to fall in the same area of the distribution most of the time unless you do something radically different and most the time, you're living solidly in the pass-land of H/P/F.

 

[NickNaylor]

The only difference is the emotional impact of seeing grades vs. not. The reality is that pre-clinical grades are pretty unimportant when it comes to residency selection, though at some schools pre-clinical grades are very important in the selection of AOA (irrespective of whether they are P/F or not). But the content is all the same, and nothing is going to be "harder" or "easier." At some point, hopefully you'll mature such that you're invested in doing well because it's your own education and you want to be able to provide competent care to those you're taking care of. That should be your motivation - not the grades.

 

[Vasopressin]

Pass/fail is not something you should make a school selection decision on, and, in my opinion, it is way oversold. Unless you were that person who was always going to be sitting on the honors-pass line, it doesn't really matter because you're probably going to fall in the same area of the distribution most of the time unless you do something radically different and most the time, you're living solidly in the pass-land of H/P/F.

Interesting. What was the atmosphere like during M1 & M2 at your school? I go to a Pass/Fail school with no internal ranking (not a top school). Everyone is very laid back, helpful and collaborative, but I've always wondered if the atmosphere would have been different if it weren't P/F.

 

[redpanda]

The atmosphere was the same during M1/M2 in my class (last class to have H/P/F for MS1/MS2) as it was in the following year with P/F. The letters do not matter; it is the people at the school who make it friendly or unfriendly. If one more med school candidate on a tour asks me, "How collaborative are the students?", I'm going to throw something.

 

[unnumzaan]

The atmosphere was the same during M1/M2 in my class (last class to have H/P/F for MS1/MS2) as it was in the following year with P/F. The letters do not matter; it is the people at the school who make it friendly or unfriendly. If one more med school candidate on a tour asks me, "How collaborative are the students?", I'm going to throw something.

Well that's just a poorly structured question. I prefer to ask students to give examples of collaboration.

 

[Psai]

look at the people who are in the residency programs because if the residents at your school are dumb, it will impact your education negatively
lots of caribbean grads and dos = run away

basically go to the best school you get into
take cost and location into account
m1 and m2 are basically the same everywhere so don't worry about that
class rank matters though so you might end up being a small fish in a big pond
if you are interested in a certain field, having strong letters from people in that field will help a lot

 

[MA20007]

I think the appealing thing about P/F is not that I wouldn't have to work as hard but rather that it would alleviate the potential frustration from straddling the honors-pass line. On the other hand, if I was working as hard as I could but only scoring in the bottom of the class, it wouldn't matter (and I wouldn't beat myself up over it). That being said, my main question is whether or not it would be a good idea to be in a class with students that are so much stronger academically. Obviously everyone is going to be smart, but some will be brilliant. I wonder whether I would learn more by studying with classmates in a class where I fell right in the middle vs. classmates in a class where I would most likely be in the bottom. Does it matter? Also, the more competitive of the two I'm comparing has a 1.5 year pre-clinical curriculum; do people think I would miss out on the added time/repetition in the other school's 2 year curriculum?

 

[allantois]

I get upset when I see a bad test grade in my undergrad classes (which thankfully only happens once in a blue moon) so I guess I could really greatly benefit from P/F grading.

 

[Itisneverlupus]

In addition:

Current med students/residents, how common is "imposter syndrome"? I've recently read an article describing it, and was curious as to how many people here feel it, as well as actively seek help for it.

The fact is, in medical school, whether or not your classmates are "brilliant", everybody (okay, outliers excluded) is very intelligent. Do you often find yourself making more errors now, or focussing more on your own intelligence level?

 

[Itisneverlupus]

look at the people who are in the residency programs because if the residents at your school are dumb, it will impact your education negatively
lots of caribbean grads and dos = run away

I am very curious about this, as I haven't yet started med school, but I've been accepted to a few thus far, and would like some input into how big this factor is.

What is considered "a lot"? 1/3 of the residents, 1/16 of the residents? Also, in which specific residencies does this really matter? What if they are DO/Caribb and CRUSHED Step 1, have amazing evals/ rotations and LORs, and whatever else matters in residency?

Also, does a larger residency program/more options and more hospitals = better school?

 

[redpanda]

I get upset when I see a bad test grade in my undergrad classes (which thankfully only happens once in a blue moon) so I guess I could really greatly benefit from P/F grading.

Ok. Here's the deal: pass/fail means P or F shows up on your transcript. It does not, however, mean that you will not get a number back for your exams and it does not mean all those numbers go up in a puff of smoke after transcript grades are submitted and it's not in some file in the back somewhere. You'll still find out when the number wasn't so hot.

 

[Psai]

I am very curious about this, as I haven't yet started med school, but I've been accepted to a few thus far, and would like some input into how big this factor is.

What is considered "a lot"? 1/3 of the residents, 1/16 of the residents? Also, in which specific residencies does this really matter? What if they are DO/Caribb and CRUSHED Step 1, have amazing evals/ rotations and LORs, and whatever else matters in residency?

Also, does a larger residency program/more options and more hospitals = better school?

it's not much of a factor because you can't really tell
i would say a lot is over 50% or so
if they're do or carib, they most likely did not crush step 1. intelligent people don't need to take back routes into medicine.
evals and lors are pretty meaningless as far as im concerned

larger residency does not mean better school, look at downstate for example. lots of residents but some of their programs are known for being malignant
i'd say go for a school with a reputable teaching hospital

 

[EMDO2018]

Some school are hard because they purposefully waste your time with BS classes, meetings, and ECs, that are MANDATORY.

perfect curriculum-, minimized lecture, teaches to the boards, no BS classes, exams with clinical significance that doesn't focus on minutia.

 

[Osteoth]

Pass/fail is not something you should make a school selection decision on, and, in my opinion, it is way oversold. Unless you were that person who was always going to be sitting on the honors-pass line, it doesn't really matter because you're probably going to fall in the same area of the distribution most of the time unless you do something radically different and most the time, you're living solidly in the pass-land of H/P/F.

I disagree. I feel as though from students I've talked to that there is a significant difference between schools that are P/F, H/P/F (similar), vs. schools that are H/HP/P/LP. Both in the collaboration and overall morale of the students within a class.

The only difference is the emotional impact of seeing grades vs. not. The reality is that pre-clinical grades are pretty unimportant when it comes to residency selection, though at some schools pre-clinical grades are very important in the selection of AOA (irrespective of whether they are P/F or not). But the content is all the same, and nothing is going to be "harder" or "easier." At some point, hopefully you'll mature such that you're invested in doing well because it's your own education and you want to be able to provide competent care to those you're taking care of. That should be your motivation - not the grades.

Lol at the not-so-subtle jab at OP

Some school are hard because they purposefully waste your time with BS classes, meetings, and ECs, that are MANDATORY.

perfect curriculum-, minimized lecture, teaches to the boards, no BS classes, exams with clinical significance that doesn't focus on minutia.

+1 to this, schools where their research focus or area of interest is required *cough* UCI ultrasound *cough*

 

[aegistitan]

Some school are hard because they purposefully waste your time with BS classes, meetings, and ECs, that are MANDATORY.

perfect curriculum-, minimized lecture, teaches to the boards, no BS classes, exams with clinical significance that doesn't focus on minutia.

That sounds like a pretty good curriculum to me.. can you list some of the schools that follow that curriculum?

 

[redpanda]

Some school are hard because they purposefully waste your time with BS classes, meetings, and ECs, that are MANDATORY.

perfect curriculum-, minimized lecture, teaches to the boards, no BS classes, exams with clinical significance that doesn't focus on minutia.

1. Oh, you're back!
2. It's rather difficult as an MS1/MS2 to know was is minutia and what is significant and isn't necessarily tested on the USMLE exams (which are clearly not reflective of real life). Teaching to any test is a poor educational method and "minutia" may actually help you some day.

 

[gettheleadout]

There are absolutely "harder" and "easier" medical schools. The material is the same, yes, and it may be the case that for most schools, the difficulty level of the exams is roughly the same, but that doesn't change the fact that there are schools where faculty specifically tailor their exams to utilize easier questions/formats given the relatively poor quality of the student body. From speaking to students at more competitive schools about their exams, and then comparing, this certainly sets some schools apart from others.

 

[EMDO2018]

1. Oh, you're back!
2. It's rather difficult as an MS1/MS2 to know was is minutia and what is significant and isn't necessarily tested on the USMLE exams (which are clearly not reflective of real life). Teaching to any test is a poor educational method and "minutia" may actually help you some day.

I said I was never coming back to ALLO!!!

 

[Doctor Bob]

if they're do or carib, they most likely did not crush step 1. intelligent people don't need to take back routes into medicine.

<sigh>
This is not a truism.

Be careful about being dismissive of your eventual peers

 

[mehc012]

The only difference is the emotional impact of seeing grades vs. not. The reality is that pre-clinical grades are pretty unimportant when it comes to residency selection, though at some schools pre-clinical grades are very important in the selection of AOA (irrespective of whether they are P/F or not). But the content is all the same, and nothing is going to be "harder" or "easier." At some point, hopefully you'll mature such that you're invested in doing well because it's your own education and you want to be able to provide competent care to those you're taking care of. That should be your motivation - not the grades.

I don't think that's entirely fair. I went to a 'challenging' undergrad, and while I enjoyed it immensely in many ways, as it taught me a lot of things I would not have learned otherwise, I have also enjoyed the courses I have taken now at my 'easy' postbacc program because the decreased requirements mean that I can spend less time focusing on class assignments and more on exploring all of the side tangents which catch my eye, interest me, or are relevant to the MCAT. I can see a similar situation arising in medical school - more busywork (aka it is 'harder' to perform well in the class itself) could translate into 'less time to explore what catches my eye or to tailor things towards boards as I go' for some, or perhaps 'more interesting and keeps me engaged,' depending on the student.

 

[redpanda]

I said I was never coming back to ALLO!!!

Well, that should severely limit the conversation about the undesirability of med school women if true.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't think that's entirely fair. I went to a 'challenging' undergrad, and while I enjoyed it immensely in many ways, as it taught me a lot of things I would not have learned otherwise, I have also enjoyed the courses I have taken now at my 'easy' postbacc program because the decreased requirements mean that I can spend less time focusing on class assignments and more on exploring all of the side tangents which catch my eye, interest me, or are relevant to the MCAT. I can see a similar situation arising in medical school - more busywork (aka it is 'harder' to perform well in the class itself) could translate into 'less time to explore what catches my eye or to tailor things towards boards as I go' for some, or perhaps 'more interesting and keeps me engaged,' depending on the student.

I completely agree with you - I think a P/F system gives you the "emotional freedom" to pursue other interests that aren't directly related to cramming information into your brain. However, understand that you certainly have that ability even in a graded system. Because pre-clinical grades are so unimportant (relatively speaking), there's no reason why you can't just be happy with anything that's not honors while pursuing those other interests.

 

[Derivations]

if they're do or carib, they most likely did not crush step 1. intelligent people don't need to take back routes into medicine.

You really think there's a big gap between upper tier DO students and lower tier MD students?

 

[mehc012]

I completely agree with you - I think a P/F system gives you the "emotional freedom" to pursue other interests that aren't directly related to cramming information into your brain. However, understand that you certainly have that ability even in a graded system. Because pre-clinical grades are so unimportant (relatively speaking), there's no reason why you can't just be happy with anything that's not honors while pursuing those other interests.

See, I'm not really equating 'easier' with 'P/F'. There are a lot of ways in which courses can be more challenging, whether it's the prof bringing in additional info, or there being more non-test assignments, mandatory sessions, etc. Grades are the least part of that equation. I think it's difficult, unless you really really know what you want to do before you get the chance to try things on your own, to ignore what has been put forth as the ideal use of your time and substitute in something else.

 

[Goro]

Can you give us an example? And how do you know this being a pre-med?

Are there med schools where you don't need to know the modes of action of the opiates or statins? for example? How ion channels work? What pain pathways there are for the lower abdomen? How HIV causes AIDS? Risk factors for COPD?

There are absolutely "harder" and "easier" medical schools. The material is the same, yes, and it may be the case that for most schools, the difficulty level of the exams is roughly the same, but that doesn't change the fact that there are schools where faculty specifically tailor their exams to utilize easier questions/formats given the relatively poor quality of the student body. From speaking to students at more competitive schools about their exams, and then comparing, this certainly sets some schools apart from others.

 

[mehc012]

Can you give us an example? And how do you know this being a pre-med?

Are there med schools where you don't need to know the modes of action of the opiates or statins? for example? How ion channels work? What pain pathways there are for the lower abdomen? How HIV causes AIDS? Risk factors for COPD?

I won't pretend to know what actual medical schools are like, but I would reiterate that, for any school/course, what you are expected to know is only one small part of difficulty.

 

[NickNaylor]

See, I'm not really equating 'easier' with 'P/F'. There are a lot of ways in which courses can be more challenging, whether it's the prof bringing in additional info, or there being more non-test assignments, mandatory sessions, etc. Grades are the least part of that equation. I think it's difficult, unless you really really know what you want to do before you get the chance to try things on your own, to ignore what has been put forth as the ideal use of your time and substitute in something else.

Then that begs the question of whether those assignments, mandatory sessions, etc. really translate into more effective teaching that actually improves your clinical acumen. I would argue not.

 

[mehc012]

Then that begs the question of whether those assignments, mandatory sessions, etc. really translate into more effective teaching that actually improves your clinical acumen. I would argue not.

I would tend to concur...But they still make the courses 'harder' (and without changing the material you are expected to know for boards).

 

[NickNaylor]

I would tend to concur...But they still make the courses 'harder' (and without changing the material you are expected to know for boards).

Not harder - just limiting the amount of time you have to actually sit down and learn the material. I'd argue that things like that could absolutely help if they were effective teaching tools. The problem is that they aren't necessarily that. I don't see how required things, assignments, etc. makes anything more difficult. It just eats up your time if they aren't effective.

 

[mehc012]

Not harder - just limiting the amount of time you have to actually sit down and learn the material. I'd argue that things like that could absolutely help if they were effective teaching tools. The problem is that they aren't necessarily that. I don't see how required things, assignments, etc. makes anything more difficult. It just eats up your time if they aren't effective.

If 'requiring more time and/or thought' doesn't qualify something as 'harder,' then what does?

As an example, if you give me a list of 50 things to memorize, with a short answer exam afterwards, and then I have to write an essay comparing and contrasting 2 of those things, to me that would be substantially harder than if you gave me 100, or even 200 things to memorize and then a multiple choice exam on them.

Even if they are effective (I thought that the various tools used in my undergraduate were wonderfully effective for making me think, not regurgitate), they can still be harder if they take more effort to complete. It just seems that med school is designed to test mass-scale regurgitation, so they are perhaps not well-suited for that environment.

And, since P/F was brought up before, I would argue that a class with a lot of busywork is more time-consuming even if you learn not to care about your grades, because you can't just half-ass an exam, you have to half-ass several assignments.

 

[Psai]

I disagree. I feel as though from students I've talked to that there is a significant difference between schools that are P/F, H/P/F (similar), vs. schools that are H/HP/P/LP. Both in the collaboration and overall morale of the students within a class.



Lol at the not-so-subtle jab at OP



+1 to this, schools where their research focus or area of interest is required *cough* UCI ultrasound *cough*

getting ultrasound experience is actually a very good thing

 

[lmn]

I would tend to concur...But they still make the courses 'harder' (and without changing the material you are expected to know for boards).

So the "Harder" school is one that makes you go to useless extra classes/activities? That doesn't make it harder, that just means the school you go to is stupid in their approach to medical education.

 

[mehc012]

So the "Harder" school is one that makes you go to useless extra classes/activities? That doesn't make it harder, that just means the school you go to is stupid in their approach to medical education.

I still don't understand how nobody is equating 'requires more effort' to 'harder'. That's pretty much the definition.
They don't have to be useless, either...you can gain plenty from those sorts of things, even if it's not necessarily a higher board score. And in my example, it wasn't extra activities, it was the style of grading (other than P/F).


I am also not saying that my examples are the only way for things to be harder, just that they are one version which I could come up with quickly which didn't involve 'knowing more material for the boards', which isn't feasible since those are standardized exams.

At the end of the day, it seems like the issue I'm running into here is that all anyone in med school seems to care about are the boards, and those are standardized and thus the same across schools. That's nice and all, but your day-to-day life is still affected by the standards your school sets; even if you choose to mostly ignore them, that's a choice you had to make due to the different policy in place.

 

[gettheleadout]

Can you give us an example? And how do you know this being a pre-med?

Are there med schools where you don't need to know the modes of action of the opiates or statins? for example? How ion channels work? What pain pathways there are for the lower abdomen? How HIV causes AIDS? Risk factors for COPD?

I know this because I have a close personal connection to teaching faculty at an MD school that does what I described.

Examples of what I'm talking about would be things like choosing only the "easy" rated NBME questions for basic science shelf exams, incorporating fluff points and bonus into course grades, etc.


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[Goro]

So n=1 = schools do easy and hard?

I know this because I have a close personal connection to teaching faculty at an MD school that does what I described.

Examples of what I'm talking about would be things like choosing only the "easy" rated NBME questions for basic science shelf exams, incorporating fluff points and bonus into course grades, etc.


Sent from my neural implant using SDN Mobile

 

[NoDakDok]

Maybe the cramming of immunology into my thick skull is the cause, but I'm getting a headache reading the current discussion.

Hi all! I'm not sure if this has been covered before, but are some medical schools harder than others?

Yes, this has been covered. As for difficulty, "Harder" is extremely subjective. End-all-be-all is that all US MD schools are held to the same, extremely high standards. The core curriculum does not change from school to school. The differences come in the individual school structure, and "Harder" will be determined on an individual basis. Some schools have mandatory day-long (8-5) schedules, other schools are more independent (no required courses or even exams) (e.g. Yale has anonymous, optional exams).

The "Hardest" schools will then be the ones that least mesh with your style of learning, not necessarily what schools give the 'hardest exams,' or whatever other metric you wish to use.

Is it a bad idea to go to a top-tier school if I'm going to be in the bottom of the class--even if the first two years are P/F? I wonder if I would get a better education by working/studying with people who are more on my level.

Is it a bad idea? No. As for your peers, regardless of where you will go there will be people smarter than you at certain things. In most cases, there will be people smarter than you at many things, regardless of where you go. I doubt even the smartest medical student in the country is the smartest at every individual subtopic. I do like the quote, "If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room." However, there are many reasons why an individual would choose a 'lower tier' school in lieu of a 'prestigious' one. Again, this whole point is subjective, as some people learn better in an environment where they are the 'little fish' and some learn better in an environment where they are the 'big fish.'

Does going to a top 20 vs. a top 50 school even matter?

Yes and no. In literally the most exception-filled but simplistic manner possible to explain this is that going to a less-known school may make it more difficult to place into extremely competitive residencies at specific competitive places, but going to a less-known school will not stop you from doing whatever you would like to do, given that you perform and present an application worthy of that residency.

So n=1 = schools do easy and hard?

You didn't see that school description listed on the MSAR? C'mon, Goro, I thought you knew your stuff.

By GTLO's description of "easy" versus "difficult" based upon the difficulty of the exams, Yale would be the easiest school in the country given that you don't have exams.

I think the metric you're using might be flawed.

 

[AlteredScale]

Would anyone say that Duke haas a harder curriculum because they do a 1 year vs 2 year preclinical?

 

[unnumzaan]

If we define difficulty as how much effort + talent is required to get into the top x% of your class, then the answer to this question is an unequivocal yes. Arguing otherwise would essentially be saying that the caliber of students at every medical school is the same. There's a degree of variability we can attribute to curriculum fit for each student, but the trend is still going to be there. Other definitions of "harder" may be more subjective and not really concrete enough to justify a discussion.

 

[NoDakDok]

Would anyone say that Duke haas a harder curriculum because they do a 1 year vs 2 year preclinical?

This is a much more valid point than comparing difficulty of tests. Material/time is certainly higher in that case, but at the same time they are still learning the same core curriculum.

If we define difficulty as how much effort + talent is required to get into the top x% of your class, then the answer to this question is an unequivocal yes. Arguing otherwise would essentially be saying that the caliber of students at every medical school is the same. There's a degree of variability we can attribute to curriculum fit for each student, but the trend is still going to be there.

Agreed. But the point of medical school isn't to be the top x% of your class, so that's a rather irrelevant definition.

Other definitions of "harder" may be more subjective and not really concrete enough to justify a discussion.

As I meant to imply in my last post, given that the goal of a medical school is to produce the most competent physicians as possible out of their incoming class, the term 'difficulty' is far too personal and subjective to apply on a general basis.

As an individual, you should be looking for the school that will help mold you into the physician you wish to be. So in my mind the "Hardest" medical school would be the one that it is most difficult for you to do that, not necessarily which one gives you a harder exam or makes you learn material in the shortest period of time.

 

[Goro]

Old joke: what do you call the guy who finishes at the bottom of his med school class?

"Doctor".

 

[unnumzaan]

This is a much more valid point than comparing difficulty of tests. Material/time is certainly higher in that case, but at the same time they are still learning the same core curriculum.



Agreed. But the point of medical school isn't to be the top x% of your class, so that's a rather irrelevant definition.



As I said in my last post, given that the goal of a medical school is to produce the most competent physicians as possible out of their incoming class, the term 'difficulty' is far too personal and subjective to apply on a general basis.

Yup, which is why this thread is a bit moot. For the sake of answering OP's question though, being in the top x% of your medical school class does happen to be a relevant/one of the only relevant metrics of difficulty. I like your Yale example earlier. More difficult schools do not necessarily train more competent physicians, but I will postulate that increasing the average caliber of student at an institution will have a positive impact on its quality of education. This is going back to the point about surrounding yourself with people who are more successful and intelligent than you are - a winning strategy in many walks of life. I actually think one of the greatest appeals of top programs is being able to immerse yourself in that highly accomplished and promising cohort.

 

[NoDakDok]

Old joke: what do you call the guy who finishes at the bottom of his med school class?

"Doctor".

I've heard this quote for many a year, and I know it's in jest, but I doubt many people passing medical school are worried about becoming a doctor, they're worried about placing in their desired residency.

Not saying it's profoundly important, but being last in your class isn't doing you any service in that regard.

More difficult schools do not necessarily train more competent physicians, but I will postulate that increasing the average caliber of student at an institution will have a positive impact on its quality of education.

I actually disagree a little here...

I think that you're right the higher average caliber of student will increase the aptitude of its graduates. But by no means do I think the higher average caliber of student means that it's a better academic institution. For example, Washington University in St. Louis is recognized as "The" academic powerhouse in medicine, but that doesn't mean it's the best medical school or has the highest quality of education. I have seen the example of Mayo in the past. It is known for taking lower caliber students (academically) and they perform exceptionally above their more 'average' pre-medical performance when it comes to boards, residency, etc. I find that improving the performance of your students is a better marker of educational quality than maintaining the performance of people who already perform exceptionally.

This is going back to the point about surrounding yourself with people who are more successful and intelligent than you are - a winning strategy in many walks of life. I actually think one of the greatest appeals of top programs is being able to immerse yourself in that highly accomplished and promising cohort.

Fair enough. I debated going to more well-known schools for this reason. However, since most of pre-clinical education is independent learning of a massive amount of material, I think this is much less important in those years in particular. In the end I decided other factors were more important to me, personally.

Regardless of aptitude, I think it is easy to feed off other individuals' motivations, and the drive to succeed is pretty much embedded throughout all the medical programs' students I have ever met. This includes schools in the Top 5 all the way to the schools you probably haven't ever heard of, and likely never will.

 

[Ismet]

Some school are hard because they purposefully waste your time with BS classes, meetings, and ECs, that are MANDATORY.

perfect curriculum-, minimized lecture, teaches to the boards, no BS classes, exams with clinical significance that doesn't focus on minutia.

Life's not all about the boards, dear. And you have no idea what is minutiae and what isn't.

 

[NoDakDok]

Life's not all about the boards, dear. And you have no idea what is minutiae and what isn't.

You can't possibly be saying that my time spent memorizing USMLE World and First Aid verbatim from the age of 9 until now was a bad choice. Don't do this to me, Ismet, pleeeeease.

 

[MA20007]

To clarify, for those who went to schools with 2 year pre-clinical, do you feel that you wouldn't have been able to master the material as well with only a year and half? It's the same amount of material, so do you think an extra six months of rotations/electives would be a more beneficial way to learn compared to an extra 6 months of studying/class alone?

 

[WillburCobb]

To clarify, for those who went to schools with 2 year pre-clinical, do you feel that you wouldn't have been able to master the material as well with only a year and half? It's the same amount of material, so do you think an extra six months of rotations/electives would be a more beneficial way to learn compared to an extra 6 months of studying/class alone?

Many of the schools that "shorten" the basic science years have basic science lectures during the clinical years.

 

[Ismet]

To clarify, for those who went to schools with 2 year pre-clinical, do you feel that you wouldn't have been able to master the material as well with only a year and half? It's the same amount of material, so do you think an extra six months of rotations/electives would be a more beneficial way to learn compared to an extra 6 months of studying/class alone?

My school has a curriculum somewhere between 1.5 and 2 years (done with MS2 classes in Feb, start MS3 in May) and I think it was plenty of time. I actually wish we had more time for rotations, because even as it stands now, I have SO much to fit in during the first 4-5 months of MS4 that it's going to be a miracle if everything falls perfectly in line before applications are due.

 

[ctryhunzelma]

The reality is that pre-clinical grades are pretty unimportant when it comes to residency selection

 

[Frazier]

Yeah, some medical schools are harder than others.

Has a lot to do with:

the quality of your "average" classmate (read: your average classmate is a 3.9/~36 MCAT/high capacity Joe vs. 3.4/29 MCAT/normal capacity Joe -- one cohort will be harder to be "average" in);

the mindset of your exam writers (read: take all online NBME exams vs. customized nitpicky research heavy exams vs. anonymous exams -- one will have universally well-written questions with concise study aids, another will be a real PITA to study for, the last sounds completely chill);

the mindset of faculty (read: "people learn differently, they can podcast if they want" vs. "no, everyone must attend every lecture everyday for 6 hours" -- finite number of hours in a day, why waste hours when you can get the same material in half the time);

the added boost added by having a big brand name pedigree vs. relatively unknown school (read: two equal applicants otherwise, the Harvard Med grad is going to beat out the XYZ unknown grad every time).

etc.

All this leads to the conclusion that it is pretty convoluted and not simple to determine which schools are "harder" vs. "easier". Yale has those anonymous exams -- should be pretty easy right? Well, you will be surrounded by a bunch of geniuses come clinical years, good luck standing out head and shoulders above those peers. Georgia Backwoods University (made up) has pretty modest competition (29 mcat average, 3.4 GPA, 80% instate) -- you might not have much trouble being average there, but you are forced to attend all lectures. Then study when you get home at 5PM. And you are a slow reader.

It isn't clear cut.