Away/International Rotations

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Anyone do or know someone that did a 4th year elective in Mexico or somewhere Spanish speaking? Any recommendations?
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How much is too much to pay for a spot in an elective rotation? I am looking into a program, and they are asking for a non-refundable $200.00 fee.


Of course, this rotation is in NY, so please no comments about NYC cost of living... yes it is high, and no it is not worth it... yes we are insane for living in NY...yada yada yada...

Please help!
 
is 200 the application fee? that's too much, esp. since they cannot guarantee enrollment. but 200 for registration is ok.
 
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it's a registration/application fee. so, you have to pay it just to apply, then you receive an acceptance letter if and when you are accepted.

I only wanted to do peds or fp there, and i'm starting to wonder if it's worth it...
 
Where is this? I have rotated a a bunch of hospitals in NY and LI and never had to pay anything...I know Sinai makes you pay for housing...but aside from that..I am unfamiliar with any $200 fees?
 
Beth Israel Medical Center. It's affiliated with Albert Einstein. I am really thinking of just not doing it if this is not something that most programs require.
 
most programs will require a registration fee of 100-200. if you're thinking of doing residency there, it's worth it to learn as much as you can before you apply.
 
Oh yeah...I totally forgot..my bad
 
dr_almondjoy_do said:
Beth Israel Medical Center. It's affiliated with Albert Einstein. I am really thinking of just not doing it if this is not something that most programs require.
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dr Joy---;)
If you are really intersted in getting a residency there then $200 is nothing compare to hundreds of thousands we already spent. In the long run $200 is nothing as long as it helps you rule a program in or out. Just my $0.02.
 
I really think it's worth doing a rotation there, but what if I decide to do one rotation in internal medicine then end up wanting to do pediatric residency? Will this still count as me doing a rotation there? I still don't know exactly what I want to do for a living!
 
I have a question about away rotations...
is it more common to go to a city where you have someone to live with for a month? how feasible is it to go to a city where you have to find someplace to live?
 
dr_almondjoy_do said:
I really think it's worth doing a rotation there, but what if I decide to do one rotation in internal medicine then end up wanting to do pediatric residency? Will this still count as me doing a rotation there? I still don't know exactly what I want to do for a living!
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From what I have heard it still will counts, you are getting to know about ppl in hospiatl and they interact with you and you end up getting a letter from some one from there thenI think that will be benifical to you and I think its still better than not rotating thru hospital at all.
 
I guess it all depends on your situation. But most programs have student housing available, at least that has been my experience.
 
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I did 3 away rotations. The cost of the rotation ($50-100 depending on the program) was nothing compared to the cost of renting an apartment, food, parking, etc. but I think it was worth it. I found out where I didn't want to go which in some ways is more important to figure out than where you do want to go!
 
I'm currently in the middle of doing 3 away months here in NY. The app fees varied from 100-200$. I did mine through Columbia U. They charged 100 bucks but if they were not able to place me in a rotation that I requested, they would have refunded my money. I think this is the general policy at most of the NY hospitals, even though their websited won't mention it. Ask specifically if the app. fee is refunded if you are not placed in a rotation. I've had no problems with this and it was well worth the money to come to NY to rotate. (Even though it's frickin' cold here now).
 
A lot of the programs in the northeast don't offer housing...simply because it would be so expensive for the school/hospital to maintain the rent. Some places offer housing for free. OThers charge rent. It is totally variable, though, the more expensive the cost of living in a given area, the less likely the program will provide housing.
 
Greetings,
If anyone has any experience with the subject, or have heard/read anything about rotating in europe and germany in particular, please please share your opinions here.
I'm planning on doing RadOnc there in the beginning of 4d year, just to make it a bit harder for myself, I guess :)
 
Hi everyone,

I'm a medical student from Mainz, Germany.
Here in Germany we have several web-pages with reports on electives and clerkships. There you can read where other med-students have absolved their clinical elective and if it can be recommended to fellow students. :thumbup:

I wonder if you have got something similar for the United States. ;)

Thank you in advance for your answer!

Greetings from Germany,

Felix :)

P.S.: Here are two links to the kind of pages I'm referring to. Sorry that they are in German: Medizinstudent Thieme.de
 
Well, I'm from Germany. Maybe I can help you...

What do you want to know?

Felix
 
has anyone done this or considered doing this? I was thinking of doing a rotation on a Navajo reservation and was looking for some advice or feedback on people's experiences.
thanks!
 
drzanny said:
has anyone done this or considered doing this? I was thinking of doing a rotation on a Navajo reservation and was looking for some advice or feedback on people's experiences.
thanks!
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Well, this is rather vicarious, but my mother was a nurse in Shiprock in the late 1980's. They have since built a new hospital, but I'm sure what goes on there is still the same: complete madness. As in 120 births/month on a 10 bed maternity unit. If you want to get 5 years worth of experience in 2 years, just join the IHS. It's insane (but in a good way).
 
Does anyone know where I can purchase insurance to cover a couple of months of away rotations?

The school I want to visit requires $1,000,000/$3,000,000 and my school won't cover anythere near that.

The school I am trying to apply to does not offer insurance for purchase and will provide absolutely no guidance on how I can get this insurance. I have been running around for 2 weeks calling companies and getting nowhere.

Most of the agents I have spoken with know exactly what I am asking about and have had these requests before but none actually have that type of policy for students.

Has anyone else had this problem?

More importantly, has anyone been able to solve it?

HELP!!!
 
you may try pgy1md.com

i think i remember them offering malpractice insurance for $200 a week, but i am not sure.

good luck!
 
Thanks for the suggestion. But I can't seem to find anything on the site about liability insurance and I also am not sure if I would qualify since I am not an IMG.
 
send them an email and ask...i don't think it would matter if you are an IMG.

another idea is to contact your school's malp ins carrier and ask them if you can pay a bit extra to increase the coverage while you do the rotation.
 
hello!

I did an away rotation at Univ of Heidelberg in Heidelberg, Deutchland! It was really really fun. I wanted to do radiology cuz that's what i'm interested in but ended up doing derm because they only had openings with derm. My main reason for going was to be with my sister who was pregnant and about to deliver at the time. I left around noon-2pm each day and pretty much took the last week off ! I mainly worked with one attending who was awesome and spoke english, as most of them do. There was one attending who was like the archetypal surgery attending we see here in the US, but he didn't bother me too much after the first day when he told me i was not allowed to be a student there cuz he had no records of me and because i didn't speak any german...anyway, obviously, i got around all that misunderstanding (except for the not speaking german part, hehe). Univ of Heidelberg is like a sister univ to Harvard, so it is really really well respected and one of the top places in Germany as well as i think europe overall. THe ppl are all very friendly and very interested in teaching. and they all take a lunch break together! so you don't have to sneak away, you just go with the residents and attendings!


if you want any further info, just PM me!

adios
 
I'm in school in Hungary. And we get visiting students from all over europe and of course the US. Anyway, english is the offical language of science so every doc worth his weight is fluent. My wife did some of her Phd work in Germany and we spent the summer there. It was great. And the beer is really cheap!! Go for it! :D
 
Need some guidance here folks. I attend an osteopathic school in PA and wish to do a large portion of my rotations in either NY city or boston next year. I am looking at getting into anesthesiology. How receptive are the allopathic schools/hospitals towards taking DO students for rotations seeing as that my school is not affiliated with any schools in NY or Boston and I would be looking to match in an allopathic spot. Should I callthe schools? Call the hospitals? Any hospitals or schools more DO friendly than others? I scored top 10% on comlex, top 5% in my class and am looking to land a fairly competitive residency spot. Thank you and excuse me for my cluelessness.
 
My wife did a pharmacy rotation throught IHS in Montana and she really liked it. They put you up for free and she had a medical student staying next door.
 
1) see if the residency program/school/hospital has a website. Get as much info as you can as to whether or not they even ACCEPT DOs into their program. Get the contact info off of the website or off of FREIDA

2) if they do take DOs, be sure to ask if they take comlex scores..unless you took both sets of boards

3) if you are kind of interested in the program, but don't really know a lot about it and don't know anyone who has gone there - ask to schedule a visit for a day/afternoon to feel it out. You don't want to use up the precious 4th year time at a place you know immediately you don't like.

4) if you are looking at a program in a university setting, be sure to ask WHEN you can rotate. A lot of places make sure their own students schedule their rotations first (this includes 3rd years, 4th years, interns, residents) before even considering letting anyone else in. So, you may not even know if you are going to be able to schedule a rotation until June/July of your 4th year....and then you have to fit it in. Have a back up place just incase they say they have no room for you because their own students elected to rotate there every month.

5) be prepared to pay an application fee just to rotate. I've seen as high as 100 bucks

6) some places have an actual application that requires a deans signature, proof of malpractice, immunizations, etc....these take time to get. Request this stuff early so you can receive it, get the forms filled out, and get it back to them

7) In my opinion, January or Feb aren't too early to begin contacting programs to request information or touch base with the contact person regarding the best way/time to call back to schedule a rotation

8) always check into housing, meals, and how far housing may be from the hospital. Some places do not provide housing

Good luck...Hope this helps
 
drzanny said:
has anyone done this or considered doing this? I was thinking of doing a rotation on a Navajo reservation and was looking for some advice or feedback on people's experiences.
thanks!
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I did a family medicine month, and it was a great experience. Just to warn you, however, you have to apply freaking early, and there is a ton of paperwork. (It is a bureaucracy, what else would you expect?)
 
I've been looking into several residency programs through FRIEDA but can't figure out whether or not they take D.O.s or if they take comlex scores. Am I missing something or is there another place I can look to find out that info? (I've looked at individual residency program websites also but can't find that info.) Thanks!
 
FREIDA will give you the website for the programs. If you can't find the info on the website, then e-mail the program director and find out if a) they will let a DO student rotate through, and b) will they accept COMLEX scores. I also try to find out on the website who the recent residents are and where they went to school because if you don't see any DO's in the program from the last 4 years or so you might want to consider another program, especially if they tell you COMLEX is not accepted. Or at least try to ask them if they will accept DO grads. On the other hand you might see a few DO's that went to your school and you can try to contact them.
 
As previous post mentioned, the best way to find out if the program is receptive to DO students is to look at previous residents to see where they went to med school.

Call the residency coordinator at every program you're interested in and ask all your questions before you waste your time and money rotating anywhere. After that, consider writing a letter to the PROGRAM DIRECTOR of the residency program and ask him/her also what your concerns are. I don't think there's anything wrong with sending the program director a copy of your CV, let them know of your interest in their program, and whether they would consider you for a position.
 
I'm looking for a 4th year elective that will allow me to be close to a ski resort, have time to ski, while practicing medicine. I've heard of people doing work at clinics/ER that serve ski resorts. I know there's one at Big Sky, but it is already full for next year.

Does anyone know of anything like this? Is there anything through places like UColorado or UUtah? Anywhere else? I have also heard of people doing such things at Vail, Jackson Hole, and in Anchorage AK.
 
BOOYAH said:
I'm looking for a 4th year elective that will allow me to be close to a ski resort, have time to ski, while practicing medicine. I've heard of people doing work at clinics/ER that serve ski resorts. I know there's one at Big Sky, but it is already full for next year.

Does anyone know of anything like this? Is there anything through places like UColorado or UUtah? Anywhere else? I have also heard of people doing such things at Vail, Jackson Hole, and in Anchorage AK.
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Try Big Mountain in MT
 
Your dean should have some info about away rotations, as well as the chair of anesthesia at your school. You will need lots of approval signatures most likely - your advisor, the chair of anesthesia at your program and the program you're visiting, your student dean, a dean at the school you are visiting. It gets very irritating, always another signature to get.

Plus, pay close attention to immuno-requirements. You may need proof of vaccination beyond just a piece of paper - might need blood titers for HBV and Varicella. And if you happen to have low titers of HBV, then you gotta get revaccinated and re-titered a month later! Just one more thing to worry about (this happened to me, by the way).
 
3) if you are kind of interested in the program, but don't really know a lot about it and don't know anyone who has gone there - ask to schedule a visit for a day/afternoon to feel it out. You don't want to use up the precious 4th year time at a place you know immediately you don't like.

I love this piece of advice. You will definitely save time and money by heeding these wise words. Between application fees, travel, and housing, away rotations can get spendy.

I've been looking around and found that most necessary information is on the site of whatever school you are thinking about. Sometimes it requires you to work your way through a labyrinthine set of links but eventually you can find out what you need to know in terms of logistics. A good site to get you started with allopathic programs is this one "http://services.aamc.org/eec/student.cfm"

Good luck.
 
I have a concern about away electives. People always say that if you want to go to a solid program, you need to do an away rotation at the program and stand out. What if you are a solid applicant on paper (regardless of how you perform on the wards) going into a less competitive specialty? It seems to me that the away elective may hurt more than help.

I have performed well at the top of my class at an average medical school. Honored 2/3 of basic science courses, all of my clinical rotations thus far. Mid 240's on step 1. Research with pubs pending, volunteer work, member of committees. Good shot at AOA. Planning on going into peds. Yada, yada, yada.

I am afraid that if I do an elective at a top program that I may tarnish the way I look on paper. I perform well on the wards, but it is at an average program with average students. It will be much different being compared to top students at top programs. Also, what if by some chance I get assigned to a team with a resident or attending whose personality is not congruent with mine? I may get a mediocre evaluation just based on personality differences alone. Or by some freakish accident I show up late because of something stupid like car trouble, or getting lost in an area that I am not familiar with, or setting my alarm for pm instead of am, etc. It wouldnt be a big deal on any other rotation but when these people know I am on an audition rotation, they may be more cognizant of things like this. And in a big unfamiliar hospital, it will be much more difficult to do well compared to students who know their way around and know the computer system, students who may know their residents socially, etc. I know some of these things are unlikely and pretty stupid/paranoid but why take the risk of screwing up if you have a decent chance of getting into the program without an away elective?

Any thoughts?
 
you are probably among the top applicants applying to one of the least competitive specialties out there. I suggest you do an away only if you are looking for a change of scenery during the summer months; or are looking for a particular elective not available at your home school.

There is no need to do an away in peds; actually you only really need to do aways in fields like ortho, urology, ent, etc.
 
Thanks for the advice. I have had mixed reports regarding the utility of away rotations for peds. I talked to a fourth year who interviewed at several of the top 25 programs, and he said only one school asked about away rotations (which he did not do). That school ironically is my first choice because of its location in my hometown. Any other thoughts from people who are going into peds?
 
I'm actually in the same boat as you (third year aiming for peds, and pondering electives), so I'm not sure how helpful my comments will be. . .

but fourth-years with whom I've spoken have recommended electives at institutions that you're seriously interested in, for the simple purpose of further investigating the program. They've recommended contacting the peds clerkship director of the school, inquiring about which electives are highly recommended, and approaching the elective as an opportunity to get a feel for the hospital and the residents and to assess if you could work well in that environment. Away electives for peds don't have the same purpose as surgical or derm electives might - i.e., it's not intended to get you an "in" with the school. It's more for your own benefit, in making an informed decision about your preferences.

That said, I've also received the recommendation from several people to refrain from doing a sub-I at another institution. The reason - hard work, fatigue, and in that case, stringent evaluation by the staff and the chance that you actually might hurt your chances.

Just the buzz from the fourth-year future peds docs at my school. :) Hope it's helpful.
 
Do most people take an away elective in a specialty that you have already taken at your own school? Is this usually done? It almost seems like cheating to me.
 
I everyone. I am an MS4 and will be done in June..however, I was scheduled to do a peds rotation that fell apart. I have 2 weeks to come up with something else! Our local doc already has an intern and another student with him. We don't have med-peds or NICU locally (1.5 hours away).

I am trying to think of a creative way to do a peds elective...help out at a local gradeschool? (Can I work with an RN only?) Help out at the university clinic? (Is that really peds? and, they only have a nurse practitioner...can I work under her?)

I know someone who got their allergy/immunology rotation to count as a peds elective, but I'm sure that doc already has somebody with him.

My other options would be an hour drive each way, every day to go to another town. (Staying there isn't an option...I have a 2-year-old at home.)

Any suggestions???
 
of course, for many of the competitive specialties, people do rotations at their home school (to get LORs) and an away or two (to get more LORS or get a feel for the school or to get an "in"). why do you say it's like cheating, that makes no sense to me. it's more like that's the norm
 
Inquire further about doing your rotation at the clinic... count as an ambulatory elective. Our school allows us to do a month of community peds for our elective; i'm sure you can do the same.
 
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