Being forced to work more due to a divorce

[sloh]

Imagine how ****ed you’d have to be to have to discuss it with your wife before buying a $160k toy.

Difference between "Hey babe, I make no money/not enough money. Can you buy me this 160k toy?" and "Hey babe, we are doing quite well financially, I am thinking about buying this 160k toy? Any reservations? If so, we can discuss."

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[HemorrhagicShock]

Difference between "Hey babe, I make no money/not enough money. Can you buy me this 160k toy?" and "Hey babe, we are doing quite well financially, I am thinking about buying this 160k toy? Any reservations? If so, we can discuss."

I thought a Turbo S was a quarter million car?

Why would you waste time/life/reputation on a low-tier Porsche? Seems embarrassing to me. Almost like a 3-series BMW or low-tier Mercedes.

 

[GassYous]

I thought a Turbo S was a quarter million car?

Why would you waste time/life/reputation on a low-tier Porsche? Seems embarrassing to me. Almost like a 3-series BMW or low-tier Mercedes.

What do you think about the porsche suvs

 

[sloh]

I thought a Turbo S was a quarter million car?

Why would you waste time/life/reputation on a low-tier Porsche? Seems embarrassing to me. Almost like a 3-series BMW or low-tier Mercedes.

Yeah turbo S is around 250k. I agree with you haha. Turbo S or no 911 for me. Wonder if the guy bought a Carrera GTS.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

What do you think about the porsche suvs

Elegant and worthwhile, but only respectable for dads. If you're a single dude with a Porsche SUV... well that's just kind of not sexy

Yeah turbo S is around 250k. I agree with you haha. Turbo S or no 911 for me. Wonder if the guy bought a Carrera GTS.

ANYTIME I see a Carrera in the doc parking lot, or while driving, or really anywhere, I just shake my head and laugh. I'll think to myself, "does he know how lame he is? Nobody except his mom is impressed."

 

[Splenda88]

Yeah turbo S is around 250k. I agree with you haha. Turbo S or no 911 for me. Wonder if the guy bought a Carrera GTS.

I don't know that much about Porsche.

I thought spending 160k would get one the top 911.

I thought my friend was out of his mind when he told me he made that purchase. He has been an attending for < 3 yrs and only make 500k/yr.

 

[Apollyon]

I thought a Turbo S was a quarter million car?

Why would you waste time/life/reputation on a low-tier Porsche? Seems embarrassing to me. Almost like a 3-series BMW or low-tier Mercedes.

Funny story: when I married my wife, I had a 525i. I told her that "everyone has a 3". However, that car has been gone for 8 years, now. And my wife is anti-materialistic. She won't take money offered to her. Today, I identified a BMW from only about 5% of the rear end. I said, "That's a 318i". And it was! And she said, "Yeah, but it's only a 3." That is one thing I NEVER expected from her!

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

Funny story: when I married my wife, I had a 525i. I told her that "everyone has a 3". However, that car has been gone for 8 years, now. And my wife is anti-materialistic. She won't take money offered to her. Today, I identified a BMW from only about 5% of the rear end. I said, "That's a 318i". And it was! And she said, "Yeah, but it's only a 3." That is one thing I NEVER expected from her!

I love stories like this because this is how you know that you married a winner!

 

[RustedFox]

I love stories like this because this is how you know that you married a winner!

I echo this sentiment; and I don't even like cars all that much.

 

[emergentmd]

I am the cheapo one in our relationships. I told her I put my name in for a Cybertruck.

Wife - What version
Me - I think I will get the dual motor
Wife (not having any idea what this means) - What is that the high end
Me - No, its the mid version
Wife - Why don't you get the high end version

This is of fact of our relationship from day 1. Always looking for the best for me. If I wanted a wool sweater, she tells me to get cashmere. I wanted a Jet boat looking at the 21 vs 25 ft version, she told me to get the 25 ft. I wanted to go to Vegas with a friend, she said sure have fun staying home with a 2 yr old and a 6 month old by herself.

Don't get me wrong, she likes nice stuff but would sacrifice if it meant the kids/I get the nice stuff first.

 

[always.chillin]

There's a dr on reddit who is finishing training and his wife wants to buy a 170k range rover even before he's finished. No kids yet. That's even before the 1.6 million house she wants.

www.reddit.com/r/whitecoatinvestor/comments/18ff4o1/how_to_deal_with_spouse_who_has_gotten_more/

i knew someone who did something like this a few years ago. They bought a 1 mil dollar house and 100k Range Rover right outta residency. Combined HHI was 500k. Student loans of 500k. I thought they were crazy. And here I am making 600k, no loans, and still driving my 4 year old Toyota because I guess I don’t know any better.

 

[Dr. Rude]

I think I would pay someone to make me disabled.

Remember. The fleshy part of the thigh.

 

[gruemd]

I think you calling some of this stuff out as "red pill" is a cop-out for what is a very obvious, data-driven, and lived reality for a lot of men. Not just in the US but worldwide.

Yes, I don't want to devolve this into yet another online forum red-pill discussion, but it's never surprising that the tenets of that philosophy continue to come up naturally.

Nah, don't conflate what I said with what you heard; I said I'm all for equality and am very much pro-men when it comes to the inequality afforded them by family courts and the like. What I actually said is that the last couple of pages of this thread really went towards red pill territory, which they absolutely did. There's a huge difference between "men get the short end of the stick in divorce much of the time and are often the primary breadwinners who end up supporting their spouses for an unfair amount of time" -- and -- "Women are crazy, not to be trusted at all, I tell my wife how it is because #imtheman," and, literally, "castrated" for not unilaterally making a large financial decision. I stand by my initial statement.

 

[Cinclus]

Even if the wife is supper supportive and think its manly to be a SAHD, the isolation eventually gets to you. As a SAHD, you start to lose all of your friend groups. Imagine going out with your guy friends and what do they talk about? Its sports, work, hot chicks. They surely do not talk about kids.

Its starts to feel like solitary confinement.

This also happens to women. Many SAHM and non-SAH mothers experience a loss of identity and social life. It's just societally encouraged and normalized for women to deal with it. The reason that most women historically lived this role and dealt with it is due to there being little other option.

 

[xaelia]

I suspect there's no smooth and painless manifestation of marriage as a partnership, but some of the financial parts of this thread are truly quite bizarre.

However, even the "castrated" viewpoints here are miles ahead of where we were 20 or 30 years ago, and I suspect, culturally, it'll be even more egalitarian in the future. It's also worth noting a bit of this masculinity culture is far more prevalent in the U.S. than in some overseas countries; the SAHD isn't nearly as stressful or identity-robbing in some other places. Just as with any SAHM, there's a struggle for an identity and purpose beyond the day-to-day chores – but that doesn't mean it's unviable.

I, personally, don't mind working part-time and doing a bit more around the house if it enables my wife to have fulfilling engagement with her career and pull in almost as much (or more, depending on the NZD/USD exchange rate) money as I do. There's always tension over who does more/less, but that's the modern life.

 

[AD04]

This also happens to women. Many SAHM and non-SAH mothers experience a loss of identity and social life. It's just societally encouraged and normalized for women to deal with it. The reason that most women historically lived this role and dealt with it is due to there being little other option.

As a male physician, I want to thank you for letting me know the plight of SAHMs. It's such oppression to have the woman stay at home with kids and drink Starbucks and do Pilates. I know of the suffering because my sister is SAHM. The smile on her face when she interact with her young kids is smile of sadness. The man really should be less successful and have the woman work. A SAHM mom without a good social life is probably too well-to-do relative to the community she lives in and the man should slack off. Who wants to deprive a woman of work and its demands. A boss at work is certainly more understanding than her man. That's why a woman generally treats her boss with more respect than her man.

We have excellent role models on how to not oppress woman into being a SAHM, such as Leonardo DiCapri. Cristiano Ronaldo teaches us men can have children via surrogacy. No need to get the woman involved as a mom.

A male physician is top 1% earner in the world. Instead of sharing the top 1% income with just just one woman, spread it around multiple women. Just make sure not to oppress those women with marriage. When I was resident, one of the attendings had 4 sugar babies. How generous he is to women. He is surely a friend to womankind. For those whom are adventurous and loves traveling, women in other countries can share in the generosity as well. (As a bonus, some other countries where men are masculine and women are feminine do not have harsh laws against husbands and fathers!)

 

[Cinclus]

As a male physician, I want to thank you for letting me know the plight of SAHMs. It's such oppression to have the woman stay at home with kids and drink Starbucks and do Pilates. I know of the suffering because my sister is SAHM. The smile on her face when she interact with her young kids is smile of sadness. The man really should be less successful and have the woman work. A SAHM mom without a good social life is probably too well-to-do relative to the community she lives in and the man should slack off. Who wants to deprive a woman of work and its demands. A boss at work is certainly more understanding than her man. That's why a woman generally treats her boss with more respect than her man.

We have excellent role models on how to not oppress woman into being a SAHM, such as Leonardo DiCapri. Cristiano Ronaldo teaches us men can have children via surrogacy. No need to get the woman involved as a mom.

A male physician is top 1% earner in the world. Instead of sharing the top 1% income with just just one woman, spread it around multiple women. Just make sure not to oppress those women with marriage. When I was resident, one of the attendings had 4 sugar babies. How generous he is to women. He is surely a friend to womankind. For those whom are adventurous and loves traveling, women in other countries can share in the generosity as well. (As a bonus, some other countries where men are masculine and women are feminine do not have harsh laws against husbands and fathers!)

Rather heated, rambling, angry reaction to it being pointed out that there may be individuals of either sex who may not do well as SAH parents, regardless of tradition. So, ladies or boys aren't into you or what? WHO HURT YOU?!

 

[nimbus]

Mother of all doctor divorces.

TLDR-don’t divorce a woman after having 8 kids with her, especially if she’s grown accustomed to hanging out with Paul Allen and family on his yacht.

https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/petitions/90043-4%20COA%20Respondents%20Brief.pdf

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

I make the money and my wife is a SAHM. She had a career that she left after we had our 2nd kid. She handles everything financial for the family, though she leaves the retirement accounts to me.

She 100% does all the books, pays all the bills, and we trust each other.

We consult each other for larger purchases, but I don’t check her credit cards, nor does she legislate my bar tabs.

We’ve been married 5+ yrs but together for a long time, and we trust each other. Neither one of us are particularly extravagant, but we certainly don’t pinch pennies either.

I’m just trying to give a good financial datapoint on a happy marriage.

(But… we started dating long before I even went to medical school, and got married as a third year med student so no concern for gold-digging)

🤷

 

[dozitgetchahi]

i knew someone who did something like this a few years ago. They bought a 1 mil dollar house and 100k Range Rover right outta residency. Combined HHI was 500k. Student loans of 500k. I thought they were crazy. And here I am making 600k, no loans, and still driving my 4 year old Toyota because I guess I don’t know any better.

I made mid $500s this year.

I’m currently driving my wife’s old Camry Hybrid. It’s a 2008. We felt like we were “movin on up” because we just bought a two year old used Sienna Platinum.

Granted, we have plenty of debt that we are paying down, but I can’t believe how insane some docs’ spending habits are. I’m getting heartburn just thinking about the payments on a $1.6 million house (about $10k/month) and a $170k car ($3k/month)

 

[Splenda88]

I made mid $500s this year.

I’m currently driving my wife’s old Camry Hybrid. It’s a 2008. We felt like we were “movin on up” because we just bought a two year old used Sienna Platinum.

Granted, we have plenty of debt that we are paying down, but I can’t believe how insane some docs’ spending habits are. I’m getting heartburn just thinking about the payments on a $1.6 million house (about $10k/month) and a $170k car ($3k/month)

I am like you. I might need to loosen up a little bit.

I made 401k last year (another 24k net in real estate investment). We drive 2008/2009 Lexus ES 350 and Acura MDX. My mortgage payment is < $1600/month and my student loan payment for now is $2000.

My net worth is a little bit over 1 mil and I have been debating for 3 months now whether or not I can afford a 60-70k car.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I am like you. I might need to loosen up a little bit.

I made 401k last year (another 24k net in real estate investment). We drive 2008/2009 Lexus ES 350 and Acura MDX. My mortgage payment is < $1600/month and my student loan payment $2000.

My net worth is a little bit over 1 mil and I have been debating for 3 months now whether or not I can afford a 60-70k car.

Our Sienna was like $55k. I didn’t blink at that. We needed a family hauler and I was tired of trying to figure out how we’d get things back from Home Depot, or move furniture and such (I previously had an Infiniti Q50 that I sold during the pandemic - we had been a one car family for several years). I also live about half a mile from work, and I can and do walk to work a fair amount of the time. So as much as I love cars (I am a car guy, believe it or not), I can’t justify buying a new 5 Series or something just to drive it half a mile each way four times a week. Some day in the future when the Camry either bites the dust or gets handed off to one of our kids as their first car, I guess I’ll have to think about what to replace it with. But I think that’s going to take a while.

My goal is to pay the Sienna off pronto. That may only take a couple of quarterly bonus checks to pull off.

(That said, i *do* spend money on things that make my life more productive, fun, comfortable, enjoyable etc. I have probably $5k invested in Haworth, Steelcase, and Humanscale office chairs between my exam rooms and my house, as well as Haworth height adjustable tables, Ergotron monitor arms, etc etc because ergonomics is great and life sucks when you try to practice medicine without a proper ergonomic environment…)

 

[Splenda88]

Our Sienna was like $55k. I didn’t blink at that. We needed a family hauler and I was tired of trying to figure out how we’d get things back from Home Depot, or move furniture and such (I previously had an Infiniti Q50 that I sold during the pandemic - we had been a one car family for several years). I also live about half a mile from work, and I can and do walk to work a fair amount of the time. So as much as I love cars (I am a car guy, believe it or not), I can’t justify buying a new 5 Series or something just to drive it half a mile each way four times a week.

My goal is to pay the Sienna off pronto. That may only take a couple of quarterly bonus checks to pull off.

I will feel uneasy having only 1 car in our household. I even think a 3rd car is needed.

I think I will settle for 45k used car and pay cash for it.

 

[sloh]

Our Sienna was like $55k. I didn’t blink at that. We needed a family hauler and I was tired of trying to figure out how we’d get things back from Home Depot, or move furniture and such (I previously had an Infiniti Q50 that I sold during the pandemic - we had been a one car family for several years). I also live about half a mile from work, and I can and do walk to work a fair amount of the time. So as much as I love cars (I am a car guy, believe it or not), I can’t justify buying a new 5 Series or something just to drive it half a mile each way four times a week.

Haha my partner is in anesthesia and does very well for herself. She’s entertaining a g-wagon but can’t justify that kind of car for her 1 mile commute to work.

 

[emergentmd]

Here is my take from both ends of the spectrum. We grew up dirt poor, like very poor so pinching pennies was engrained in our family.

I went to a state school and back then was cheap. Lived at home. Left college with maybe 10K in debt. Went to state Med school and was also cheap back then. Tuition was 8K/yr. I was offered 30K in student loans. I took out the min to live which was 15K. Ate the cheapest food, lived in run down apt, etc.... Left med school with 100K in loans, 110k after residency was done. Paid that all off in less than 1 year.

BUT 2 wks before residency was over, I bought a brand new 2000 BMW X5 which ended up being a maintenance headache but that was by far the best purchase of my life. But still had the penny pinching mentality making 400K/yr.

Looking back my major regret was not taking out the full 30K in loans and living comfortably in a nicer apt, better eating, better experiences and getting a car that actually had AC in the Tx heat. I prob would have ended up with 200K in loans but would have that paid off in about 1 yr.

Now that I am FIRE and make more than I can spend, i don't even blink about "wasting" money. Instead of a 500/nt Hawaii rental near the beach, we do a 1k/nt right on the beach. Instead of $20 meals, we will do $100/pp for a nice experience. No more group lessons when we ski, its all private lessons. No more group tours, it is all private tours. Instead of spending 300 on connecting tickets, I will spend 600 on direct flights. Now, I still don't waste by going first class but not connecting is well worth the 300 but 1k more is not worth a bigger seat.

Its great to pay off debt and be financially in control, but don't be so tight where experiences/vacations become work rather than fun.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

Now that I am FIRE and make more than I can spend, i don't even blink about "wasting" money. Instead of a 500/nt Hawaii rental near the beach, we do a 1k/nt right on the beach. Instead of $20 meals, we will do $100/pp for a nice experience. No more group lessons when we ski, its all private lessons. No more group tours, it is all private tours. Instead of spending 300 on connecting tickets, I will spend 600 on direct flights. Now, I still don't waste by going first class but not connecting is well worth the 300 but 1k more is not worth a bigger seat.

Its great to pay off debt and be financially in control, but don't be so tight where experiences/vacations become work rather than fun.

Private tours all the way. Nothing worse than a "Small Group" tour booked through Viator, and when you get on the bus it's 20 people with two screaming toddlers. We actually got off that bus in Melbourne, and got a refund. After that it was private tours only.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Haha my partner is in anesthesia and does very well for herself. She’s entertaining a g-wagon but can’t justify that kind of car for her 1 mile commute to work.

Yeah if I did that, I’d probably end up with one of those cars sold 20 years later with an ad like “7k miles, one owner, looks brand new, you won’t believe it” etc etc

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Here is my take from both ends of the spectrum. We grew up dirt poor, like very poor so pinching pennies was engrained in our family.

I went to a state school and back then was cheap. Lived at home. Left college with maybe 10K in debt. Went to state Med school and was also cheap back then. Tuition was 8K/yr. I was offered 30K in student loans. I took out the min to live which was 15K. Ate the cheapest food, lived in run down apt, etc.... Left med school with 100K in loans, 110k after residency was done. Paid that all off in less than 1 year.

BUT 2 wks before residency was over, I bought a brand new 2000 BMW X5 which ended up being a maintenance headache but that was by far the best purchase of my life. But still had the penny pinching mentality making 400K/yr.

Looking back my major regret was not taking out the full 30K in loans and living comfortably in a nicer apt, better eating, better experiences and getting a car that actually had AC in the Tx heat. I prob would have ended up with 200K in loans but would have that paid off in about 1 yr.

Now that I am FIRE and make more than I can spend, i don't even blink about "wasting" money. Instead of a 500/nt Hawaii rental near the beach, we do a 1k/nt right on the beach. Instead of $20 meals, we will do $100/pp for a nice experience. No more group lessons when we ski, its all private lessons. No more group tours, it is all private tours. Instead of spending 300 on connecting tickets, I will spend 600 on direct flights. Now, I still don't waste by going first class but not connecting is well worth the 300 but 1k more is not worth a bigger seat.

Its great to pay off debt and be financially in control, but don't be so tight where experiences/vacations become work rather than fun.

Oh believe me, there’s plenty of other things I’ve shelled out money for. I just try to keep the big ticket items within reason, at least until the debt is paid off.

(It helps that I live in a semi rural, very LCOL area. In my town, you can get a fabulous new 4000 sq ft house for like $300k, and $500k gets you a classy well maintained 3 story, 6k sq ft house from the 1920s with 7 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms OR a decent house out in the country with 20+ acres where you can’t see any of your neighbors. COL in urban parts of this country has gotten way out of hand. I visited a friend recently in one of the biggest Midwest cities who paid $800k for a house that was probably not as spacious as what you could get here for $300k.)

 

[Emapp20177]

Our Sienna was like $55k. I didn’t blink at that. We needed a family hauler and I was tired of trying to figure out how we’d get things back from Home Depot, or move furniture and such (I previously had an Infiniti Q50 that I sold during the pandemic - we had been a one car family for several years). I also live about half a mile from work, and I can and do walk to work a fair amount of the time. So as much as I love cars (I am a car guy, believe it or not), I can’t justify buying a new 5 Series or something just to drive it half a mile each way four times a week. Some day in the future when the Camry either bites the dust or gets handed off to one of our kids as their first car, I guess I’ll have to think about what to replace it with. But I think that’s going to take a while.

My goal is to pay the Sienna off pronto. That may only take a couple of quarterly bonus checks to pull off.

(That said, i *do* spend money on things that make my life more productive, fun, comfortable, enjoyable etc. I have probably $5k invested in Haworth, Steelcase, and Humanscale office chairs between my exam rooms and my house, as well as Haworth height adjustable tables, Ergotron monitor arms, etc etc because ergonomics is great and life sucks when you try to practice medicine without a proper ergonomic environment…)

Minivan eh. Toyota so it'll be reliable, sure, but why not get a Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade ESV for a bit more $$? More space never hurts.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Minivan eh. Toyota so it'll be reliable, sure, but why not get a Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade ESV for a bit more $$? More space never hurts.

Several reasons:

- Fuel economy. We have to do 1-2k mile trips every month or so to visit our kids several states away. A new Sienna Hybrid gets 36 city/36 highway (and we have even beaten the EPA numbers on some trips, getting close to 40mg). Good luck getting anywhere near that in the largest SUVs. Yes, I can afford to pay for the gas, but I don’t want to if I don’t have to.

- The additional room in those hulking SUVs is actually not that much more than a minivan. They’re also much less versatile. The seats don’t move around the same ways. The load floor is MUCH higher, and if you’ve ever had to actually load anything heavy into these vehicles you know how much that sucks. We don’t tow anything, so we don’t need that capability either.

- Wife has had bad experiences with GM products in the past, and I have had mixed experiences with Fords. Wife vetoed the idea of purchasing any GM product for the vehicle that she would be driving most of the time. (Reliability is really important to us. I personally hate it when things don’t work properly.) My choices were basically limited to Toyota, Honda, Acura, or Lexus. A Sequoia was a possibility, but local dealers had zero Sequoias in stock and once we realized what the difference in fuel economy would be, we basically dismissed that idea. The new Land Cruiser wasn’t available yet, and would have had the same issues with fuel economy. 4 Runners have horrible 3rd row room, as do regular Highlanders. We looked at a Grand Highlander and we were not impressed. Seats were uncomfortable and too narrow, and the Sienna was much more spacious than a Grand Highlander. The Platinum trim on the Sienna (which we purchased) is actually quite luxurious and feels much like a Lexus, with upgraded leather and better seats and all the bells and whistles…so it seemed like a no brainer vs spending $20-30k more at the Lexus dealer for something with less space. As soon as we sat in the Sienna and felt the seats and looked around at all the room and features…and 36mpg combined…it was one of those “duh, this is the right idea” moments. We looked at an Odyssey Elite and didn’t like it as much as the Sienna…not to mention that the fuel economy was much worse. Wife vetoed the idea of a Chrysler Pacifica or Kia Carnival - and I was ok with that because I think both of those brands are basically junk.

- We don’t care about the “uncool image” of a minivan. (For the record, driving a crossover or SUV isn’t exactly “cool” either.) When I ditch the Camry someday, I’ll get something more sexy…but for now, I genuinely don’t care.

 

[Goro]

[Applies to both sexes]
-poor relationship with parents
-One of their parents absent while growing up
-Alcoholism, obviously
-Marijuana use
-Several dietary restrictions for seemingly no reason (dairy,gluten, etc)
-abundance of tattoos
-chronic headaches not dx as migraine
-love bombing
-difficulty w pair bonding
-difficulty seeing issues from other perspectives

Throw in:
Control issues
Gambling issues
Too dependent upon the parents or other family.
Unwilling to discuss/solve problems
Immaturity
Unwilling to accept that marriage is a two-way street.
Excessive jealousy, especially about your career

 

[BoardingDoc]

This thread has been all over the place, going from questions about alimony, to marriage advice in general, to thinly veiled misogyny, to what it means to be a SAHM, to what kind of car to buy and now recently back to criteria for choosing a spouse. Given that this thread is long since off topic and continues to generate complaints, I'm going to call it here.