Bioengineers Unite

[ninebillion]

A few of the more recent posts on this forum have mentioned biomedical engineering, so I was wondering just how many people are interested in pursuing a Ph.D. in engineering. Out of those interested in BME, who's applying this year and who's already in a BME program?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[clockitnow]

I am apply for biomed engineering PhD in MSTP programs.
I am all for unification

 

[bigblackjeeps]

I am also applying this year for MSTP with a PhD in BME.

 

[Neuronix]

I am a student of the University of Pennsylvania MSTP in the department of Bioengineering (Traumatic Brain Injury concentration). I was originally Neuroscience, but I switched in. I would always be happy to field questions about this topic, but I'm most knowledgeable about how things work here of course

 

[BaylorHopeful]

I'll be there.....in three years...

Unless, of course, this ugrad BME program eats me alive first

 

[pathdr2b]

Still kicking myself for not doing the extra 1.5 year in school and getting the degree in Chem E. But it's okay, cause' I'm smart enough to marry one!

Good luck to all in this FANTASTIC major!

 

[Stroganoff]

I'll be there.....in three years...

Unless, of course, this ugrad BME program eats me alive first

Are you doing BE at MIT? I just switched to BME this past January (from Computer Engr.) at CWRU. Doing this, plus taking other prerequisites, pushes my graduation back 2-3 years. If I'm as excited about BME when I apply as I am now, I'll definitely be going for a BME PhD.

I'm all for it though. Best of luck to those applying this decade.

 

[Dodohead]

I'm BME PhD at Penn, but not MSTP (my husband is, though, which is why I browse these forums). I did my Ugrad in ChemE.

 

[clockitnow]

For an MSTP with biomed eng, what schools should you not miss?

 

[ninebillion]

Several programs come to mind: Emory/GaTech, Baylor/Rice, Hopkins, Harvard/MIT, Penn, UCSD, UCLA, Northwestern, Michigan, Pitt, Vandy, UW, UTMB/UT-Austin.

Anywhere else?

 

[Neuronix]

Here's the thing: I wouldn't miss any MSTP that has a BE program. From there you can tailor it down to suit your own needs. Maybe we should compile a big list? Here's what we have so far:

Emory/GaTech, Baylor/Rice, Hopkins, Harvard/MIT, Penn, UCSD, UCLA, Northwestern, Michigan, Pitt, Vandy, UW, UTMB/UT-Austin, CWRU.

What are we forgetting?

 

[Stroganoff]

Duke, WashU. I think Yale and Stanford have new BE programs.

 

[ninebillion]

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC-Chapel Hill

Here's a (somewhat disingenuous) thought: All applicants for fall 2005 MSTP admission with a bioengineering focus should form a pact; each person involved in the pact can apply to one school on the above list, and for the more competitive programs, we can draw straws. That way we won't have to compete directly against each other! Bwahaha.

 

[Stroganoff]

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC-Chapel Hill
UIllinois Chicago (non-MSTP)

 

[Neuronix]

Now of these, can anyone attest to poor integration of the BE program and MSTP or lengthy distance of BE department from the med school? Also, can anyone attest for special admissions procedures or GRE required? We can add that sort of thing to the list.

 

[rabbit96]

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC-Chapel Hill
University of California, Irvine
UIllinois Chicago (non-MSTP)

 

[Gradient Echo]

Hopkins is one of the better integrated programs in BME. The department is organized under the school of medicine The BME PhD-only students take the same first year med school coursework as the med students, so its nice to have that extra "tie" to your PhD-only colleagues whom you will be seeing during the PhD portion of the curriculum.

We also have collaborative agreements where you can complete your PhD at the NIH if you wish. There are a number of faculty that have joint appointments at both NIH and Hopkins who run labs at the NIH while teaching classes periodically at Hopkins.

As for GRE, there were 2 or 3 programs that required it when I applied. Michigan was one of them, but I cant remember the other 2.

 

[nuttyp3]

I definatly agree that Bioengineers should unite! When I first started looking into MD/PhD programs I was surprised by the huge void in engineering programs. Everyone I talked too seemed disillusioned towards an MD/PhD-engineering program. Personally, I feel its a new wave of the future. Also, thanks for the list of schools - I had missed a few in my research!

 

[huknows00]

haha it's nice to have so many fellow bioengineers on this forum, we rule!

I am new to this, currently a junior in BE at Penn. I was kinda concerned that most mstp programs I looked at didn't really seem to have good integration between the MD and the engineering. Does that mean that there are less classes in common and it would take longer to do a MD and PHD in BE?

Also, I want to apply as soon as possible, after my junior year but haven't taken my mcats yet. I will try to be ready by April next year, but I want to taken it in August so I will be better preprared. Is taking it in August really bad? I could also take it in twice in hopes of getting a better score in August.

 

[whattodowithmys]

hi everyone
im not an undergrad engineer but i am very interested in a MSTP with BE or BME. (ive pretty much taken most of the basic engineering classes required at my school minus fluids and two other classes). i was wondering if anyone knows anything about UVa's BME program? it doesnt come up often in the forum discussions so I assume its not one of the top notch? thanks!

 

[Neuronix]

Answers to two questions:

1) About integration. This is totally variable. I think Penn does a great job of integrating MSTP and BE. In some molecular departments here a 7 year graduation time is basically a dream, but in BE it is feasible for a number of reasons. The main way you integrate in BE is you do your required rotations during 1st and 2nd year summers and you can do your thesis in one of those labs. You can also take seminar classes in BE while in medical school that count for grad credit.

At some other schools, you can't take seminar classes for different reasons. One common reason is the BE department could be too far away for you to even be able to get there easily. Graduation times are also increased for BE students at some other programs for various other reasons.

2) I don't know specifically about UVa BE. I would say that I would be very cautious about applying for BE if you weren't an Engineering major. There's very few spots for BE MSTP nationally, and the competition is very stiff, even stiffer than for molecular departments in MSTP.

 

[clockitnow]

Answers to two questions:
There's very few spots for BE MSTP nationally, and the competition is very stiff, even stiffer than for molecular departments in MSTP.

You are making me very nervous. When you say few, how few do you mean? Are schools more or less going to be picking 1 or 2 people at the most to for BME? Please explain and put this in perspective, especially since a lot of schools don't ask you to commit to a specific department.

 

[ninebillion]

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan (need GRE)
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU (for PETP, need GRE)
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC - Chapel Hill
University of California, Irvine
U Illinois Chicago (non-MSTP)

 

[Neuronix]

Are schools more or less going to be picking 1 or 2 people at the most to for BME?

The answer to the quoted question to the best of my knowledge is: Yes. Of course schools don't ask you to commit to a specific department, but they gauge your interests at interview. If you are strongly interested in BE, they will classify you as such. As far as I've seen, most program directors view BE as a foreign concept. Many of these schools listed only started taking BE students recently, and even then they don't take many.

I am biased, like all current students, by the situation at my own school. So I will tell you about that. We very clearly classify applicants by their department of interest. As far as I know, last year we interviewed five students for BE. They were all super-outstanding. I'm sure we got ALOT more than five applications. Also as far as I know, we accepted one. I remember looking at them and thinking, "Gee, which one of these five is going to get in?" That's not to say that you couldn't apply to a molecular department and switch into BE. Once you are a student here, you can do just about whatever you want. The gatekeeping is all done at the interview level.

Typically we graduate 1 or 2 BE students a year. In the third year class (if you call me a MS2 now), there will be 0 BE students unless someone switches in. The lone BE matriculant switched out.

Now, I've told people in the past who are on the fence about it to apply molecular and see what happens because my gut feeling is that it's got to be easier. Still, I'm not sure about the soundness of this advice. Perhaps I'm making all this up and it's not any harder to get in as a BE applicant. Also, if your whole app points to BE (Engineering undergrad, research in all engineering labs), you're probably going to apply as such. Further, some programs are not as good as Penn about allowing you to jump departments, especially to BE.

These are all just things to think about. Other comments are welcome, especially considering that I didn't apply BE. I applied as a Neuroscience student. I had a Neuroscience background, but when it came down to it one of the factors I came in choosing my school was whether the school was happy with me joining BE. Several were not.

 

[Gradient Echo]

I agree in general with Neuronix, with the caveat that there are a few schools that WANT more BME students.

WashU comes to mind. Brian and Andrew were both very interested in the fact that I wanted to do BME, and hinted that they were looking to get more people in that program.

On the other hand, Yale seemed rather antagonistic to BME when I interviewed there. The director told me that he knew of only one person who had ever done Yale MSTP in BME and seemed to have a very lackluster opinion towards BME in general.

Hopkins is very open to BMEs compared to some places. We have 3 people in my MSTP class who are BME. I'm not involved in the MSTP admissions process, so I have no idea if we earmark people according to department or not. I'd imagine that we probably get a lot more BME applicants than the average MSTP program, but I have no idea what the actual numbers are.

I think that in the future most MSTPs will become more open to BME type people. Keep in mind that most of the people who run MSTPs are hard core "old fashioned" molecular/cell biology types who may just not be that familiar with BME since its somewhat of a new phenomenon compared to more established fields.

The attitude and experiences of the director shape a lot of the overall program's integration and view of BME. In many places, the MSTP directors run the place like their own little fiefdom which means they have enormous influence over the program. Thats different than regular medical school admissions, because rarely in MD admissions does one single person exert that level of influence. Usually for straight MD admissions direction and control is shared more evenly by a committee of people, rather than one person, whereas for many MSTP programs, the director's view trumps everything else.

 

[clockitnow]

What you both said above makes sense. Its just hard to gauge how confident you should be as an applicant. I just turned in my primary AMCAS application and have done everything that I can. A lot of people tell me that I have nothing to worry about, but when you read what you said, you can't help but feel a little hopeless. I know that I need to be optimistic in order to get through the application and not burn out. At the same time, I don't want to be disappointed come spring. How do you deal with this dichotomy as an applicant?

 

[oasis786]

What you both said above makes sense. Its just hard to gauge how confident you should be as an applicant. I just turned in my primary AMCAS application and have done everything that I can. A lot of people tell me that I have nothing to worry about, but when you read what you said, you can't help but feel a little hopeless. I know that I need to be optimistic in order to get through the application and not burn out. At the same time, I don't want to be disappointed come spring. How do you deal with this dichotomy as an applicant?

Don't worry, for now just sit back and wait. The confidence will come when you get all these secondaries pouring in at your mailbox and your inbox (and those WILL come). And then you'll get a little more confidence (accompanied by some anxiety) when the interview invites come (and those will likely come as well). You're gonna deal with the dichotomy just like you'll deal with a lot of things in your future chosen career path: you'll just deal! I don't know how it was for other folks, but my primary way of dealing with the dichotomy was obsessively checking my inbox.

I think Neuronix gives some good advice to BE applicants about applying as molecular, if you can. Although I was BE undergrad, I applied molecular, but this was easy for them to believe since my research was mostly molecular. That wasn't a lie or anything - I was actually torn between cell/molecular vs. BE, and during the app process just happened to be leaning more molecular. I ended up getting in at a few schools with really solid BE programs, and it didn't seem like it would be a problem to switch at any of them. Of course, I ended up choosing the school that *doesn't* let me do BE...so looks like I'll be doing molecular.

 

[clockitnow]

I think Neuronix gives some good advice to BE applicants about applying as molecular, if you can. Although I was BE undergrad, I applied molecular, but this was easy for them to believe since my research was mostly molecular. That wasn't a lie or anything - I was actually torn between cell/molecular vs. BE, and during the app process just happened to be leaning more molecular. I ended up getting in at a few schools with really solid BE programs, and it didn't seem like it would be a problem to switch at any of them. Of course, I ended up choosing the school that *doesn't* let me do BE...so looks like I'll be doing molecular.

About the "anxiety," I know that it is normal, but it is nice to talk about it.

I was really surprised to see the advice to apply mol bio over BME. I actually am very close to the border too. My most major research experience was in the chem eng dept, but was gene therapy, so essentially mol bio. I also did microbial research in Tahiti (source of my pic). Where I stand, I am undecided in terms of picking a department. I thought that BME might seem more reasonable, but this is definitely something to consider when secondaries come around. I am really glad that this issue was brought up, because when i asked the premed career counselor at my school, she was unaware of the somewhat flexibility in choosing a department. On the AMCAS application, I selected only BME as my interest for almost every school. Do you think that hurts my chances?

 

[Neuronix]

Of course, I ended up choosing the school that *doesn't* let me do BE...so looks like I'll be doing molecular.

Ouch. Sorry to hear it. Do you mind sharing which school that is?

 

[oasis786]

Ouch. Sorry to hear it. Do you mind sharing which school that is?

edit: Ehh, don't want to upset them already!

 

[tofurious]

edit: Ehh, don't want to upset them already!

So the Bruins did it again... they did it to me 7 years ago when I was interviewing. I thought they had a special program set up with Caltech?

 

[abeanatrice]

Oh yay! Don't we love BioE? ninebillion and I can compete for all these schools since we are the same year, same major, same lab...
Just kidding. I just want to get in somewhere.

 

[oasis786]

So the Bruins did it again... they did it to me 7 years ago when I was interviewing. I thought they had a special program set up with Caltech?

Bruins? Nope...I don't think my school has a mascot, lol.

But yes, UCLA does have a program for BE with Caltech, and you can also pursue BE at UCLA.

 

[whattodowithmys]

does anybody know the deal with mayo's bme program and specifically with the mstp? also, how hard do you think it would be to get into a bme mstp w/o undergrad engineering, (missing only 3 core engineering classes).
thanks!

 

[ninebillion]

Oh yay! Don't we love BioE? ninebillion and I can compete for all these schools since we are the same year, same major, same lab...
Just kidding. I just want to get in somewhere.

LOL, boooooooo.

Off to the hospital. I'll be in lab Saturday and Sunday. Are you passaging a thousand flasks any time this weekend, bean?

 

[tofurious]

does anybody know the deal with mayo's bme program and specifically with the mstp? also, how hard do you think it would be to get into a bme mstp w/o undergrad engineering, (missing only 3 core engineering classes).
thanks!

With the exception of a few labs, the bme program at Mayo focuses a lot on the business end of bme - be it software or hardware of imaging. Not sure how much the ortho lab has put out lately. As for competitiveness, bme has not had a MSTP student for a long time so they are much more desperate than other tracks to get a good student.

 

[byong_soo]

Hi I am a Biochemistry major. Is it possible to do MS in BE without any background in engineering?

 

[microTAS]

Count me in : ChemE doing BME research. '05

 

[microTAS]

haha it's nice to have so many fellow bioengineers on this forum, we rule!

I am new to this, currently a junior in BE at Penn. I was kinda concerned that most mstp programs I looked at didn't really seem to have good integration between the MD and the engineering. Does that mean that there are less classes in common and it would take longer to do a MD and PHD in BE?

Also, I want to apply as soon as possible, after my junior year but haven't taken my mcats yet. I will try to be ready by April next year, but I want to taken it in August so I will be better preprared. Is taking it in August really bad? I could also take it in twice in hopes of getting a better score in August.

I took it in August and did great. I had most of my premed classes done by then though. PS is an engineer's friend

 

[microTAS]

The list:

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan (need GRE)
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU (for PETP, need GRE)
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC - Chapel Hill
University of California, Irvine
U Illinois Chicago (non-MSTP)

--

Any opinions on the "UCSF/Berkeley (?)"? Can it be done? I believe I read somewhere that it is not possible for MSTP but possible for PhD.

 

[microTAS]

The list:

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan (need GRE)
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU (for PETP, need GRE)
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?) (BME not listed in AMCAS)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC - Chapel Hill
University of California, Irvine
U Illinois Chicago (non-MSTP) (BME not listed in AMCAS)

 

[Neuronix]

Any opinions on the "UCSF/Berkeley (?)"? Can it be done? I believe I read somewhere that it is not possible for MSTP but possible for PhD.

This is what I believe I heard from a student there...

 

[oasis786]

This is what I believe I heard from a student there...

This is 100% true. During the last interview cycle, folks interviewing with the UCSF MSTP interested in BioE were told UCSF was not the place to pursue that, currently. However, there is a UCSF-UCB joint graduate group in BioE. Check out bioeng.berkeley.edu for more info on the joint graduate group.

I'm entering UCSF MSTP and was a BioE undergrad at Berkeley, so I think I have decent info on this...feel free to pm for more info if you'd like.

 

[microTAS]

Alrighty, thanks Neuronix & oasis! Just saved some cash and time

 

[abeanatrice]

This is 100% true. During the last interview cycle, folks interviewing with the UCSF MSTP interested in BioE were told UCSF was not the place to pursue that, currently. However, there is a UCSF-UCB joint graduate group in BioE. Check out bioeng.berkeley.edu for more info on the joint graduate group.

I'm entering UCSF MSTP and was a BioE undergrad at Berkeley, so I think I have decent info on this...feel free to pm for more info if you'd like.

That makes me sort of sad. Did they give any indication of why this is the case? I have heard that many programs are more pro-bioE MSTP students than others (i.e. Baylor, WashU), but to go out and say, no, we don't want BioE's here...

 

[clockitnow]

I was disappointed when I heard that from UCSF too. I am a UC Berkeley undergrad, so to be able to continue at UC Berkeley/UCSF (they have a joint department) with PhD in engineering and MD from UCSF would have been a dream. Nowhere on their website does it say that they "sponsor" joint degrees in bioeng, so I can't really say that I was misled.

 

[microTAS]

I crossed off both Cornell and UCSF amoung other top notch MSTPs. It is unfortunate, but if they don't have the right supports in place then you're probably better off elsewhere.

 

[Spacekat]

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA
Northwestern
Michigan (need GRE)
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU (for PETP, need GRE)
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?) (BME not listed in AMCAS)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC - Chapel Hill
University of California, Irvine
U Illinois Chicago (non-MSTP) (BME not listed in AMCAS)
University of Cincinnatti

 

[microTAS]

Emory/GaTech
Baylor/Rice
Hopkins
Harvard/MIT
Penn
UCSD
UCLA (/Caltech- 2 slots)
Northwestern
Michigan (need GRE)
Pitt
Vandy
UW
UTMB/UT-Austin
CWRU (for PETP, need GRE)
Duke
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
UCSF/Berkeley (?) (BME not listed in AMCAS)
Utah
Rochester
Penn State
UVa
UNC - Chapel Hill
University of California, Irvine
U Illinois Chicago (non-MSTP) (BME not listed in AMCAS)
University of Cincinnatti

 

[aunaturel]

How about Mayo? they have bme, no?