BS/MD Dismissal

[DermViser]

My point is that the OPs comments and conduct throughout this entire thread do not portray him in a favorable light. There's paralyzing anxiety, neurosis, indecisiveness, self-destructiveness, entitlement, arrogance, irresponsibility, ingratitude, lack of professionalism, indiscretion and poor judgement.

My "poorly worded warning" is meant to alert the OP that he has the equivalent of a drunk and naked selfie on his Linked In profile.

Perfect qualities wanted in a future physician all of which can be changed if OP wants to.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[PL198]

Uhh, I don't know where you're getting this information, but I doubt it's true. Not saying UM isn't a difficult school, because I'm sure it has rigorous academics, but using baseless conjecture to try and prove that the ivies are easy isn't gonna fly. I can assure you that the ivies (at the very very least, mine) are not easy. We have plenty of people dropping out of orgo, gen chem, whatever, and dropping premed due to low grades just like the rest of the country.

the grade inflation at ivies is a known fact. at the schools below the ivies, there are numerous examples of grade deflation. UM for instance

PS it's not hubris because I didn't go to UM, but continue being ignorant

 

[jl lin]

Yea I am walking but it peeves me either way. He's either being obtuse or is just an out and out troll. Either way, he has wasted people's time with his nonsense. If he meant to annoy people--especially people that were trying to be understanding and supportive--mission accomplished. If the thing was real and he was given a second chance, in general, he would have to have a sense of relief--unless he just can't fully face that he doesn't really want medicine or maybe wants it for the wrong reasons. If he is perturbed now, how is he going to deal with the endless hours of study, or M3 &4 or residency, etc?

Wow, I could sit down and give him quite a tale of woes, but what's the point? He wouldn't listen or care. So, it's like shake the dust off your sandals and move on.

I personally now want him to get out and get a job working at least 30 hours per week, so that he can get a clue.

And I am starting to feel badly for the medical school that is giving him a second chance. Wow, it's such a privilege for them to have him as a student.

OP, just bad form man. . .seriously bad form.

 

[PL198]

I don't see how getting a 34 would make you want to go to a police academy. If you wanted to leave your program, I'd think you'd apply traditionally

 

[WingedOx]

the grade inflation at ivies is a known fact. at the schools below the ivies, there are numerous examples of grade deflation. UM for instance

PS it's not hubris because I didn't go to UM, but continue being ignorant

Michigan has that reputation... but unfortunately its main mode of perpetuation is through UMich students who struggle academically rather than anything objective. The number of classmates from HS who bitched about "grade deflation" while not being able to do a basic electron transfer or equation balance was obnoxious. And coming from a midwestern upscale HS, believe me, there were A LOT of these kids...

 

[DermViser]

the grade inflation at ivies is a known fact. at the schools below the ivies, there are numerous examples of grade deflation. UM for instance

PS it's not hubris because I didn't go to UM, but continue being ignorant

Up until recently, Princeton did not grade inflate: http://qz.com/277288/princeton-is-giving-up-ground-in-its-fight-against-grade-inflation/. So you're wrong.

 

[DermViser]

Seriously. I mean this thought ran through my head on like page one of this nonsense - the OP is in all likelihood the only BS/MD student in the country who had a disciplinary hearing last week for skipping meetings (not to mention OP gave us specific info like GPA and coursework). Would be very easy for a program to put 2 and 2 together if anyone there checks SDN.

Yes, and he also identified the type of pipeline program in terms of recruitment and type of med school as well. As well as his location under his avatar. Found it in less than a minute.

 

[DermViser]

I don't see how getting a 34 would make you want to go to a police academy. If you wanted to leave your program, I'd think you'd apply traditionally

No he thinks a 34 will land him a better med school to get a competitive specialty, apparently.

 

[PL198]

No he thinks a 34 will land him a better med school to get a competitive specialty, apparently.

usually if you apply out you can't get back into your bs/md, not sure if his is different. the second part of what I said was referring to what you said though. idk a 34 probably isn't enough to where I'd feel confident about getting into a significantly better enough school to justify the risk

 

[PrinceofMaladies]

Seriously. I mean this thought ran through my head on like page one of this nonsense - the OP is in all likelihood the only BS/MD student in the country who had a disciplinary hearing last week for skipping meetings (not to mention OP gave us specific info like GPA and coursework). Would be very easy for a program to put 2 and 2 together if anyone there checks SDN.

He even named the program he was in at one point

 

[DermViser]

the grade inflation at ivies is a known fact. at the schools below the ivies, there are numerous examples of grade deflation. UM for instance

PS it's not hubris because I didn't go to UM, but continue being ignorant

Your hubris that she is pointing out is you think all Ivy League schools have grade inflation. So it's not a "known fact".

usually if you apply out you can't get back into your bs/md, not sure if his is different. the second part of what I said was referring to what you said though. idk a 34 probably isn't enough to where I'd feel confident about getting into a significantly better enough school to justify the risk

If he applies out to other med schools on AMCAS, it is GAME OVER at his medical school. Medical school admissions committees aren't stupid to know the game he's pulling to cut a better deal.

 

[Ismet]

Your hubris that she is pointing out is you think all Ivy League schools have grade inflation. So it's not a "known fact".


If he applies out to other med schools on AMCAS, it is GAME OVER at his medical school. Medical school admissions committees aren't stupid to know the game he's pulling to cut a better deal.

I don't think his program is binding, at least I didn't see any mention of it. If that's the case he should be able to apply out. My school's program allows people to apply out.

Also med schools can't see the schools you're applying to. Until that random date in the winter/spring when schools can see where you have been accepted, but if he's been accepted elsewhere, I doubt he'd care at that point.

 

[DermViser]

I don't think his program is binding, at least I didn't see any mention of it. If that's the case he should be able to apply out. My school's program allows people to apply out.

Also med schools can't see the schools you're applying to. Until that random date in the winter/spring when schools can see where you have been accepted, but if he's been accepted elsewhere, I doubt he'd care at that point.

No, I have no doubt it's not binding. But if you withdraw out of the BS/MD program as OP plans to do, and then apply thru AMCAS to all his state's medical schools, do you really think the med school's admissions officer at his current one will say ok, well you quit our BS/MD program but we'll take you as a traditional and be your backup? There is no other plausible reason other than -- I think I can get into a better school with my stats. The program he attends is not even an accelerated program in terms of being 6 or 7 years, so the excuse of things were going too fast for me, won't pass the smell test.

 

[Ismet]

No, I have no doubt it's not binding. But if you withdraw out of the BS/MD program as OP plans to do, and then apply thru AMCAS to all his state's medical schools, do you really think the med school's admissions officer at his current one will say ok, well you quit our BS/MD program but we'll take you as a traditional and be your backup? There is no other plausible reason other than -- I think I can get into a better school with my stats. The program he attends is not even an accelerated program in terms of being 6 or 7 years, so the excuse of things were going too fast for me, won't pass the smell test.

There's no reason to drop out though if it's not binding. He can hold onto his seat and apply out. Not sure if there's a component to the program I'm missing or if he doesn't realize he could do that, but people do that all the time.

 

[DokterMom]

I don't think his program is binding, at least I didn't see any mention of it. If that's the case he should be able to apply out. My school's program allows people to apply out.

Also med schools can't see the schools you're applying to. Until that random date in the winter/spring when schools can see where you have been accepted, but if he's been accepted elsewhere, I doubt he'd care at that point.

But some schools talk to each other. And I think there's a pretty good possibility that the other schools he'd most likely apply to talk regularly to the school he's in. Don't know if his transcript will make it clear he's in a BS/MD program or not, but that may be a factor to weigh in.

 

[DermViser]

But some schools talk to each other. And I think there's a pretty good possibility that the other schools he'd most likely apply to talk regularly to the school he's in. Don't know if his transcript will make it clear he's in a BS/MD program or not, but that may be a factor to weigh in.

This is the key. If his transcript says like under his major: BS/MD or Rural Pipeline Early Acceptance Program (not the name) then it pretty much outs him. If he leaves the program, it may very well noted somewhere on his transcript that he left. So it's up to the school to surmise why, and it almost never is in favor of the applicant.

 

[jl lin]

Yea. I think he is taking a huge risk. Bottom line to me is he needs to decide if he really wants medicine. If he does, and his situation is real, he is taking a HUGE risk. So, he needs to shut his mouth and get back to hard work. But if he is not sure, he needs to figure this out quickly, before he moves on.

At this point, there is no question that I just have to agree with DV. The OP's responses here, particularly after his "salvation declaration" are disturbing. If I had voted to give him a second chance, after his responses, I think I would choose differently b/c he is kind of out there.

Unless he is getting absolutely nothing out of his educational experiences and is truly treated poorly at his current school, there is no reason for him to say, "Screw them. I will apply elsewhere." This will be questioned at every place in which he may be so fortunate to get an interview. And with that attitude, he may certainly be putting himself in a far worse position than he was at the outset of his plight. He seems to lack the insight to see this. It will come out, and those at other institutions will be scratching and shaking their heads at him as we are. His 4.0 and nice but not hands down, fabulous MCAT score will then be a totally secondary issue in light of his situation. Even if he is intelligent and good student--this without wisdom can be a dangerous combination--especially in a physician.

 

[Kochanie]

the grade inflation at ivies is a known fact. at the schools below the ivies, there are numerous examples of grade deflation. UM for instance

PS it's not hubris because I didn't go to UM, but continue being ignorant

So? Lots of them curve to a B+, but just compare the competition.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

OP is such a good troll, that I often don't think he's a troll. like a troll within a troll...

 

[BurbyPrep89]

I'm kinda sad I cared about this...

 

[DermViser]

I'm kinda sad I cared about this...

Why?

 

[BurbyPrep89]

Why?

- The arrogance following what seemed to be a stressful situation.
- The lack of personal responsibility.
- The refusal to take even pleasantly worded advice.
- The hubris (and it's not only hubris if the OP fails)

I had the slimmest faith that this would be a learning experience, but this guy just sounds like a brat.

 

[DermViser]

- The arrogance following what seemed to be a stressful situation.
- The lack of personal responsibility.
- The refusal to take even pleasantly worded advice.
- The hubris (and it's not only hubris if the OP fails)

I had the slimmest faith that this would be a learning experience, but this guy just sounds like a brat.

Fully expected in a BS/MD student, quite honestly IMHO. He's being handed a medical school acceptance without any work needed to actually EARN the spot or to compete for it so he's not thankful for it. It's a huge red flag that will bite him in medical school, esp. in the clerkship year when he'll be evaluated by interns, residents, and attendings and not just based on filling in bubbles on a multiple choice exam.

 

[BurbyPrep89]

Fully expected in a BS/MD student, quite honestly IMHO. He's being handed a medical school acceptance without any work needed to actually EARN the spot or to compete for it so he's not thankful for it. It's a huge red flag that will bite him in medical school, esp. in the clerkship year when he'll be evaluated by interns, residents, and attendings and not just based on filling in bubbles on a multiple choice exam.

That's a sad testament to these programs. I do hope that at some point in his career - whatever it ends up being - someone can get some sense into him.

 

[643320]

Fully expected in a BS/MD student, quite honestly IMHO. He's being handed a medical school acceptance without any work needed to actually EARN the spot or to compete for it so he's not thankful for it. It's a huge red flag that will bite him in medical school, esp. in the clerkship year when he'll be evaluated by interns, residents, and attendings and not just based on filling in bubbles on a multiple choice exam.

I still don't understand what beef you have against these programs aside from some personal grudge. Sure, some kids are cocky, feel entitled, etc., but aren't these traits also seen among "traditional" medical students and people across all professions? Isn't that behavior just a general character flaw some people just have? I don't think it's really necessary to put whatever personal issues OP has as a reflection of the students these programs (especially since some people have even gone to the point of suggesting mental illness and counseling/psychiatric advisement). I'm sure he/she also had them before being enrolled and not as a product of being a BS/MD student.

 

[DermViser]

I still don't understand what beef you have against these programs aside from some personal grudge. Sure, some kids are cocky, feel entitled, etc., but aren't these traits also seen among "traditional" medical students and people across all professions? Isn't that behavior just a general character flaw some people just have? I don't think it's really necessary to put whatever personal issues OP has as a reflection of the students these programs (especially since some people have even gone to the point of suggesting mental illness and counseling/psychiatric advisement). I'm sure he/she also had them before being enrolled and not as a product of being a BS/MD student.

A personal "grudge"? Yeah, try again - I have no dog in this fight. If a guaranteed BS/MD yielded better applicants, than the normal application process, then schools in large droves would do them. Someone who has gone thru 4 years of med school has (in theory), ruled out other professions similar to medicine or otherwise, seen how medicine is really like in practice, etc. The BS/MD isn't what causes it. You're taking a high schooler and giving them an acceptance without working for it - since even with MCAT and GPA requirements, these are quite low in comparison to the normal process. A lot of the premed process, is good practice for what is to come later. It's not this hoop to jump thru for no reason.

The OP's attitude and entitlement is EXACTLY what med school admissions committees are trying to avoid and having a BS/MD increases the frequency of this bc that's how high school graduates are.

 

[PL198]

They work for it in high school. You're acting like they get into the BS/MD randomly or arbitrarily. Most of these kids are studs in high school.

 

[WingedOx]

They work for it in high school. You're acting like they get into the BS/MD randomly or arbitrarily. Most of these kids are studs in high school.

Being a stud student in high school is like being a stud football player in HS.

...it means nothing once pro training camp starts.

 

[deleted480308]

Being a stud student in high school is like being a stud football player in HS.

...it means nothing once pro training camp starts.

Soooooo many all county high school stats end up 3rd string walk ons at a div3 school

 

[PL198]

Soooooo many all county high school stats end up 3rd string walk ons at a div3 school

right yet, we're not talking about all county high school kids. there aren't that many high school programs. a mcdonalds all american usually doesn't end up a bench warmer. not to mention there's a huge difference between all county is a major metro area vs the middle of nowhere in idaho

 

[WingedOx]

unfortunately sb kinda ruined the analogy.

When I mean "stud" I mean a Rivals.com 5 star recruit....and again, it means jack **** in camp, or even prior to that. There are just as many "stars" in HS who flame out in undergrad at the academic level as there are in football. HS has f-ck all to do with academic and professional performance beyond the undergrad to which one is accepted.

 

[PL198]

unfortunately sb kinda ruined the analogy.

When I mean "stud" I mean a Rivals.com 5 star recruit....and again, it means jack **** in camp, or even prior to that. There are just as many "stars" in HS who flame out in undergrad at the academic level as there are in football. HS has f-ck all to do with academic and professional performance beyond the undergrad to which one is accepted.

There are only like 30 rivals 5 star players in every football class. Every single one of those kids will have a D1 scholarship and 20+ of those 30 will play in the NFL. It's not nearly as bleak as you make it seem, and there aren't nearly as many " studs" as you make it out to be. If you have a kid that gets 34+ on their ACT, they're probably going to be pretty impressive, regardless of if they're 16 or if they're 24.

It's just translated earlier. You guys have a clear axe to grind, so its the last thing I'm saying. Undergrad means f-ck all too. It's just earlier in the life cycle. The subject matter is meaningless, it's just a method for evaluating prospectives. Some people are ready for it earlier than others. Do I think every BS/MD is good to go and is mature enough to be in med school? No way. But it's the trade off you undergo to get some studs before they run off to other industries. avg BS/MD is a different person than avg trad. avg BS/MD makes it on intelligence, avg trad makes it on hard work. There were 6-7 studs in my high school, and all of them besides me went into computer science.

 

[DermViser]

They work for it in high school. You're acting like they get into the BS/MD randomly or arbitrarily. Most of these kids are studs in high school.

Being a stud student in high school is like being a stud football player in HS.

...it means nothing once pro training camp starts.

Thank you WingEdOx. You pretty much answered it for me.

 

[DermViser]

They work for it in high school. You're acting like they get into the BS/MD randomly or arbitrarily. Most of these kids are studs in high school.

Many of us who did the traditional route were also "studs" in high school as well.

 

[DermViser]

You guys have a clear axe to grind, so its the last thing I'm saying. Undergrad means f-ck all too. It's just earlier in the life cycle. The subject matter is meaningless, it's just a method for evaluating prospectives. Some people are ready for it earlier than others. Do I think every BS/MD is good to go and is mature enough to be in med school? No way. But it's the trade off you undergo to get some studs before they run off to other industries. avg BS/MD is a different person than avg trad. avg BS/MD makes it on intelligence, avg trad makes it on hard work. There were 6-7 studs in my high school, and all of them besides me went into computer science.

I have no personal axe to grind and I have no dog in this fight.

And you have a clear conflict of interest and have a dog in this fight as someone in an accelerated BS/MD program like yourself. Like I said many of these programs are more to the benefit of the MEDICAL SCHOOL than they are to the student. Forget medicine, which we all know may not be a good fit for everyone, but not every medical school is a good fit for everyone either. As an 18 year old, you pretty much compromise way too early in the process. See the OP who now wishes to go to a higher ranked medical school, bc he thinks his 34 on his MCAT, can get him there.

As a BS/MDer, depending on how it is structured, you are locked into the program, take a huge amount of hrs. per semester, don't get to explore other majors/fields, and don't get to rule out other fields in terms of shadowing, that contributes a lot to maturity in knowing no matter how hard things get that this was the best pathway for you. If it's one thing this thread has shown is at least their hubris and entitlement is at sufficient levels.

 

[DermViser]

I think these programs are a huge mistake. I have yet to interview a candidate who has one iota of a real understanding of what they are getting into. I don't particularly care about their high school achievements - just about their spectacular lack of comprehension about what a medical career looks like

This is at the application for residency stage? Even worse than I thought.

 

[Ismet]

This is at the application for residency stage? Even worse than I thought.

No. He is referring to interviewing BS/MD candidates. Do you honestly think that there's something so inherently wrong with these kids that they get through medical school and still don't know anything about medicine? Come on. They go through pretty much the same undergrad crap and the same med school stuff as everyone else.

 

[jl lin]

A personal "grudge"? Yeah, try again - I have no dog in this fight. If a guaranteed BS/MD yielded better applicants, than the normal application process, then schools in large droves would do them. Someone who has gone thru 4 years of med school has (in theory), ruled out other professions similar to medicine or otherwise, seen how medicine is really like in practice, etc. The BS/MD isn't what causes it. You're taking a high schooler and giving them an acceptance without working for it - since even with MCAT and GPA requirements, these are quite low in comparison to the normal process. A lot of the premed process, is good practice for what is to come later. It's not this hoop to jump thru for no reason.

The OP's attitude and entitlement is EXACTLY what med school admissions committees are trying to avoid and having a BS/MD increases the frequency of this bc that's how high school graduates are.

I have to tell you, this position is a difficult one to fight--especially in light of this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/


“The AMA briefly argued that: ‘adolescents’ behavioral immaturity mirrors the anatomical immaturity of their brains. To a degree never before understood, scientists can now demonstrate that adolescents are immature not only to the observer’s naked eye, but in the very fibers of their brains.’” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/

 

[DermViser]

No. He is referring to interviewing BS/MD candidates. Do you honestly think that there's something so inherently wrong with these kids that they get through medical school and still don't know anything about medicine? Come on. They go through pretty much the same undergrad crap and the same med school stuff as everyone else.

I didn't know @southernIM did interviews for high school students applying to enter BS/MD programs.

Going thru the same undergraduate work and medical school work is NOT at all what I am talking about. Yes, when you add it up at the end of med school graduation, all of us have gone thru the same thing. That's not the point.

 

[DermViser]

I think it's ridiculous for you to get thrown out just cause you don't meet with a few advisers. Especially in your first semester.

On the other hand, if there weren't many requirements and this really was just one requirement then I think you should have done so. So I'm a little bit confused in both directions.

They should cut you some slack imo. You're a freshman and it takes a while to adjust into stuff. You have to learn a whole set of skills in college and no two people are the same.

This isn't his first semester and he's not a freshman. This wasn't over missing one meeting. This was a consistent missing of meetings (once per semester) that were mandatory to continue in the program.

 

[Silverflash]

Just here to say that having read this whole thread, nothing about OP strikes me as a troll. I wish people wouldn't jump to "Oh he's just a clever troll" whenever someone does or says something they disagree with. Christ, I'm surprised you guys aren't posting on every 3.6/32 student on WAMC who's applying to Top 10's and saying "Top heavy school list with those stats? DON'T FEED THE TROLL GUYS!"

You're obviously free to disagree. I'm just a bit tired of every controversial thread on this forum devolving into accusations of trolling.

 

[DermViser]

Just here to say that having read this whole thread, nothing about OP strikes me as a troll. I wish people wouldn't jump to "Oh he's just a clever troll" whenever someone does or says something they disagree with. Christ, I'm surprised you guys aren't posting on every 3.6/32 student on WAMC who's applying to Top 10's and saying "Top heavy school list with those stats? DON'T FEED THE TROLL GUYS!"

You're obviously free to disagree. I'm just a bit tired of every controversial thread on this forum devolving into accusations of trolling.

I don't think he's a troll - I don't think he is lying about his situation. He's very troubled, and I think his impulsivity to change from physician to police officer, tends to ring the troll alarm as most people don't make life-altering career decisions from one moment to the next. Most people aren't scared to be dismissed and then when finally not dismissed say they will voluntarily withdraw themselves.

 

[Ismet]

I didn't know @southernIM did interviews for high school students applying to enter BS/MD programs.

Going thru the same undergraduate work and medical school work is NOT at all what I am talking about. Yes, when you add it up at the end of med school graduation, all of us have gone thru the same thing. That's not the point.

He said so in his post. You just surmised that it was for residency interviews.

 

[DermViser]

He said so in his post. You just surmised that it was for residency interviews.

He said, "I've also now interviewed BS/MD candidates at two separate institutions. I've talked to the deans at two schools about these programs and the applicants."

I took it to mean he interviewed BS/MD candidates (for residency) from two separate institutions at his residency program.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

This isn't his first semester and he's not a freshman. This wasn't over missing one meeting. This was a consistent missing of meetings (once per semester) that were mandatory to continue in the program.

Oh my bad. I guess that makes it more of a problem

 

[DermViser]

No, @Ismet is right. I did interviews for my med school and then very briefly during my research. They emailed out asking for interviewers and I was like, why not. But the timing of it was really bad for my schedule.

I've also interacted with candidates more informally at like sim lab sessions and doctors of tomorrow type programs

I've always hated those for some reason. Not because of the kids in it - I think they're great. But I don't think it really shows what medicine is like for them. It's really really watered down. That being said, it's cool to see their eyes light up when even the basic things (to us), they think is cool. Ours tended to have more URM, lower income kids, and it breaks my heart knowing that financially medical school is quite out of reach for them.

 

[WedgeDawg]

the grade inflation at ivies is a known fact. at the schools below the ivies, there are numerous examples of grade deflation. UM for instance

PS it's not hubris because I didn't go to UM, but continue being ignorant

Okay then, believe what you want.

There is severe inflation in some parts of the humanities (art, music, some English classes, drama, and one or two others), but in all of the sciences and most of the social sciences, there is no inflation (at least at my school). I am telling you this as a person who has for the last three and a half years been taking lower, middle, and upper level class in the sciences, social sciences, and humanities at an Ivy. But again feel free to disagree, it doesn't change anything on my end.

 

[altblue]

Just here to say that having read this whole thread, nothing about OP strikes me as a troll. I wish people wouldn't jump to "Oh he's just a clever troll" whenever someone does or says something they disagree with. Christ, I'm surprised you guys aren't posting on every 3.6/32 student on WAMC who's applying to Top 10's and saying "Top heavy school list with those stats? DON'T FEED THE TROLL GUYS!"

You're obviously free to disagree. I'm just a bit tired of every controversial thread on this forum devolving into accusations of trolling.

In fairness, OP has all of the checkboxes marked for a "quality" troll, but I still never claimed they were one. It's just somewhat suspicious, and honestly if the OP had the same mentality they have now in a URM or carrib thread, people would assume OP was a troll.

 

[WingedOx]

PL, c'mon now. If BS/MD programs are there to lock kids in before they bolt to other industries, why the hell did we want them in medicine in the first place? ...Especially when your median applicant is a first-gen facing intense parental and cultural pressure. I've heard too many statements like "If I don't get in, I'll go to India instead since you can finish med school in 5 years there out of high school," from these kids. I wasn't sure what was more awkward at the interview day from the BS/MD program at my med school... the fact that applicants for medical school were showing up wearing varsity jackets or the fact that they were their with their parents.

HS is in absolutely no way a gage of one's potential to be a professional. There's an emotional maturity that's necessary that is simply untested in high school.

/basically what these schools are doing is the equivalent of your favorite NFL team giving up 7 roster spots to 5 star HS recruits to get first dibs and have them bypass the draft. Since you mentioned UMich earlier... you'd be far more likely to end up drawing a Kevin Grady than a Jake Long. Would you have your team make that trade. (and in case you said yes... really?)

 

[DokterMom]

PL, c'mon now. If BS/MD programs are there to lock kids in before they bolt to other industries, why the hell did we want them in medicine in the first place? ...Especially when your median applicant is a first-gen facing intense parental and cultural pressure. I've heard too many statements like "If I don't get in, I'll go to India instead since you can finish med school in 5 years there out of high school," from these kids. I wasn't sure what was more awkward at the interview day from the BS/MD program at my med school... the fact that applicants for medical school were showing up wearing varsity jackets or the fact that they were their with their parents.

HS is in absolutely no way a gage of one's potential to be a professional. There's an emotional maturity that's necessary that is simply untested in high school.

/basically what these schools are doing is the equivalent of your favorite NFL team giving up 7 roster spots to 5 star HS recruits to get first dibs and have them bypass the draft. Since you mentioned UMich earlier... you'd be far more likely to end up drawing a Kevin Grady than a Jake Long. Would you have your team make that trade. (and in case you said yes... really?)

Very well said -- You can get a pretty good idea of an applicant's intellectual ability and overall ambition, but you're so right when you say there are very few ways to gauge, at that point, an applicant's professionalism and emotional maturity. Certainly, some of those straight-out-of-high school applicants will be the cream of the crop. Others? Far from it, in ways that can't be measured by SAT + GPA + AP.

In many other countries, students in their late teens are far more ready for a serious professional commitment. So many US high schools are so focused on social activities - football, proms, parties, 'senior specials' of whatever sort (even the really, really good ones) that students just aren't prepared to make life-long decisions, let alone commitments. Even the top students are generally only looking as far as getting into "the best" college, with precious few insightful enough to realize that US News is not the ultimate determiner of "The Best"... For many (most?) I'd suggest that acceptance into a BS/MD program is akin to acceptance into an Ivy League school -- just another notch on the achievement belt.