California Northstate Accreditation Discussion

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rxlea said:
I agree. One episode would be based on mike's yearly I hate christmas thread.
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Yes, and we can't forget the epic cycloketocaine/NCAA football thread.
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Oh crap... Lakeboy or should I call you Austin, how did you figure out my plan to nuke UOP, UCSF and Touro in NorCal. Tuition will be the greater of 1 million dollars or the cost of that green cart. Prettycat can be my pet cat as I rub her back as I menacingly laugh, she got nothing else to do anyway, being to good to attend my school..... Muahhhahahaha.....
 
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moolman said:
Oh crap... Lakeboy or should I call you Austin, how did you figure out my plan to nuke UOP, UCSF and Touro in NorCal. Tuition will be the greater of 1 million dollars or the cost of that green cart. Prettycat can be my pet cat as I rub her back as I menacingly laugh, she got nothing else to do anyway, being to good to attend my school..... Muahhhahahaha.....
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You nuke us and we come after your whole family. :laugh:
 
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And the only reason why we didn't get accreditation is because we wouldn't let the ACPE onsite inspectors inspect the basement.... And we all know what's being built down there.... Muahahaha....
 
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Dean Moolman,

Rub your moma's back.
 
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First of all, I'm trying to become a medical doctor.

Second, I'll be applying to Cal Northstate U's College of Medicine.

From what I've read on this thread, and I've read all of it, there's a lot of complaining about assorted issues that, frankly, don't sound all that serious to me.

I hate to break the news to all of you, but the world isn't a fair place. If CNCP is lowering GPA requirements to draw in more applications, increasing enrollment, or finding ways to finance tuition, who really cares? None of that effects my education, my USMLE scores, or the quality of my patient interactions. And, that's all that a school is supposed to do. Help students do their best. Profits are their business, and as long as they're not gouging me, I could care less what they're doing in their offices.

Every business model in this country works on exploiting small openings for revenue, and this is a for profit university.

Good for Alvin Cheung for making a profit. And, for Dr. Suskind and his recent background issues, good for him for getting a new job. If you haven't had a hair pulling, eye gouging fight with other people in the hospital, you haven't worked there long enough. **** happens. These two sound like my kind of guys.

Besides that, it looks like Cheung's and Suskind's goals are to have a working pharmacy school that makes a profit. I don't really care what they do to achieve that goal. They're not hurting anyone, or stealing.

I'd be proud to be in the entering class of the California Northstate University College of Medicine. I'll be the first in line...

... As long as they get their accreditation.
 
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MDforMee said:
First of all, I'm trying to become a medical doctor.

Second, I'll be applying to Cal Northstate U's College of Medicine.

From what I've read on this thread, and I've read all of it, there's a lot of complaining about assorted issues that, frankly, don't sound all that serious to me.

I hate to break the news to all of you, but the world isn't a fair place. If CNCP is lowering GPA requirements to draw in more applications, increasing enrollment, or finding ways to creatively finance tuition, who really cares? That's all fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

Every business model in this country works on exploiting small openings for revenue, and in case you hadn't noticed, this is a for profit university.

Good for Alvin Cheung for making a profit. And, for Dr. Suskind and his recent background issues, good for him for getting a new job. If you haven't had a hair pulling, eye gouging fight with other people in the hospital, you haven't worked there long enough. **** happens. These two sound like my kind of guys.

I honestly don't want some goody two shoes for a dean, that hasn't been in the trenches long enough to have battle scars and burned bridges.

I'd be proud to be in the entering class of the California Northstate University College of Medicine. I'll be the first in line...

... As long as they get their accreditation.
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Yawn.....…....
 
After a quick hiatus (and me being busy), my source got back to me today with an update. There's some medical school information in there. To the person who PM'd me today, don't worry, I'm not ignoring you.

I'll be doing some fact-checking today/tomorrow and post things up tomorrow night or Monday.

Preview:
1) Medical school appears to be on hold (already reported on by Sac Business Journal)
2) We now know where the "old" dean went after he allegedly jumped ship early before the school even got accredited. Hint: it's the largest city in the United States not connected to an Interstate.
3) Some attempted structural changes to satisfy academic freedom issues brought up by ACPE
4) Alleged improprieties with the WASC process
 
moolman said:
Yawn.....…....
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All I get is a yawn for my treatise on CNUCP?

I at least want a snarky reply, and some veiled insults.

I didn't come in here to kick a hornet's nest for nothing.

Talk to me, sweet cheeks.
 
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MDforMee said:
All I get is a yawn for my treatise on CNUCP?

I at least want a snarky reply, and some veiled insults.

I didn't come in here to kick a hornet's nest for nothing.

Talk to me, sweet cheeks.
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Close the bathroom door we don't need to watch you play with yourself!
 
lakeboy said:
Close the bathroom door we don't need to watch you play with yourself!
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That's better. I'm trying to rile you guys up.

Lay it on me. Whattdya got that's new about this school?
 
MDforMee said:
That's better. I'm trying to rile you guys up.

Lay it on me. Whattdya got that's new about this school?
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Wow...you showed us. Seriously, you're not even in med school yet, come back later.
 
26931-please-do-not-feed-the-trolls.jpg
 
Does Northstate have rotation sites with UC Davis Health System? I remember in the class of 2012 thread students claimed they would have rotations there and other members said it was bull. I was wondering how that panned out.
 
A few updates...

1) CNCP is working on improving the image they are protraying to ACPE regarding academic freedom and no interference from administration. Allegedly, new dean is simply the puppet of the president, but it may not look that way on paper.

2) New appointment of a director of admissions (Dr. Feng) to allegedly rubber stamp admissions because of a removal of the minimum GPA requirement to increase revenue.

3) The founding dean, who abandoned ship before the school could get accredited, can be found at http://cchsu.org/administration/ ...aka that new pharmacy school in Fresno that we heard about years ago but disappeared into the woodwork. Looks like this is version 2.0 of the process.

4) Administrative change, it appears that the president of the university became president of just the school of pharmacy. Rumor has it that an investor associated with Panda Express has expressed reservations about investing in the medical school considering the accreditation failures at the pharmacy school and current litigation (Brazill case).

Med school appears to be dead in the water at the moment. We'll see. Anyone in Elk Grove, CA want to drive by the site and verify construction activity?

5) Rumor has it that WASC initially did not want the school accredited, but that someone (name will be withheld for now) overruled a decision which caused accreditation to be given. That person then left WASC and there are allegations of bribery by some. I couldn't confirm any of this secondarily, so this could very well just be hearsay.


And in other news...it appears the NAPLEX pass rate for the school exceeded 98% per an email that went out. No CPJE pass rates available yet. These can/will be verified later as they are released by NABP down the road.

Granted, we all know how valid NAPLEX and CPJE scores are in determining the quality of a school (that is, not at all, see other discussions on SDN).
 
I believe your story because they are building a Panda Express near CNCP finally. The owner of Panda must of visited the school and was like why isn't there a Panda Express here and decided to build it. Angus Steak FTW!
 
98% sounds legit, I think they all got RXPrep to come by and prepare them. The Naplex is like the SAT, if you got the money to take prep course you will do well, by giving it to everyone you help the idiots that don't buy the material on their own and don't want to spring for the latest version or whatever just to save $200 when not passing means you're going to miss out on tens of thousands.
 
confettiflyer said:
A few updates...

1) CNCP is working on improving the image they are protraying to ACPE regarding academic freedom and no interference from administration. Allegedly, new dean is simply the puppet of the president, but it may not look that way on paper.

2) New appointment of a director of admissions (Dr. Feng) to allegedly rubber stamp admissions because of a removal of the minimum GPA requirement to increase revenue.

3) The founding dean, who abandoned ship before the school could get accredited, can be found at http://cchsu.org/administration/ ...aka that new pharmacy school in Fresno that we heard about years ago but disappeared into the woodwork. Looks like this is version 2.0 of the process.

4) Administrative change, it appears that the president of the university became president of just the school of pharmacy. Rumor has it that an investor associated with Panda Express has expressed reservations about investing in the medical school considering the accreditation failures at the pharmacy school and current litigation (Brazill case).

Med school appears to be dead in the water at the moment. We'll see. Anyone in Elk Grove, CA want to drive by the site and verify construction activity?

5) Rumor has it that WASC initially did not want the school accredited, but that someone (name will be withheld for now) overruled a decision which caused accreditation to be given. That person then left WASC and there are allegations of bribery by some. I couldn't confirm any of this secondarily, so this could very well just be hearsay.


And in other news...it appears the NAPLEX pass rate for the school exceeded 98% per an email that went out. No CPJE pass rates available yet. These can/will be verified later as they are released by NABP down the road.

Granted, we all know how valid NAPLEX and CPJE scores are in determining the quality of a school (that is, not at all, see other discussions on SDN).
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I guess the Fresno school finally got $5 million from investors and fundraiser.
 
cordycep said:
I guess the Fresno school finally got $5 million from investors and fundraiser.
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we should start a thread on that school, nip it in the bud.

don't you just love the stock photography of fake students on the website?
 
that probably is where Northstate students will be transferring to next year, hahahha
 
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moolman said:
98% sounds legit, I think they all got RXPrep to come by and prepare them. The Naplex is like the SAT, if you got the money to take prep course you will do well, by giving it to everyone you help the idiots that don't buy the material on their own and don't want to spring for the latest version or whatever just to save $200 when not passing means you're going to miss out on tens of thousands.
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I assume the reason for 98% is CNCP has less minority student. Look at the NAPLEX passing for minority school like TSU, Xavier -they around 80%.
 
rxlea said:
that's a pretty big generalization there...
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There are some well validated studies that do show ethnic minorities, even when you account for similar socioeconomic status and education, score worse on standardized exams. The conclusions drawn, though, are that the exams are then biased.

I don't make the same conclusion...I do think it's a language issue because you can have well-off, highly educated ethnic minority students do poorly. Kind of explains why the CPJE pass rate for foreign students is like < 50%...it can be confusing linguistically.

Just food for thought.
 
confettiflyer said:
There are some well validated studies that do show ethnic minorities, even when you account for similar socioeconomic status and education, score worse on standardized exams. The conclusions drawn, though, are that the exams are then biased.

I don't make the same conclusion...I do think it's a language issue because you can have well-off, highly educated ethnic minority students do poorly. Kind of explains why the CPJE pass rate for foreign students is like < 50%...it can be confusing linguistically.

Just food for thought.
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Eh...look at the dudes post history.
 
cordycep said:
I assume the reason for 98% is CNCP has less minority student. Look at the NAPLEX passing for minority school like TSU, Xavier -they around 80%.
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Dude, the school is in CA, majority just like any other pharm school here is Asian which would mean the pass rate should be high... Haha... But that doesn't explain why the other schools in CA don't have high pass rates.

Here's the real reason why the pass rate for Naplex was high. The RXPrep material is very useful in getting ready for the exam. I would say that 80% of the people regardless of RXPrep or not would pass naplex easily. Then you have that 15% that are borderline, they need the spoon feeding that RXPrep does to pass naplex. If some of these idiots are too cheap to buy RXPrep they fail. Then the 5% are just plain dumb and have a real hard time passing. These fools are hit and miss. You provide RXPrep to the class for "free" and you'll get a good pass rate. Also, these kids have a big chip on their shoulders cause we call them idiots for coming out of a lame school, their going to show USC, UOP, UCSF and et al that rejected them 4 years ago that they are better. You combine all that and there's no surprise the passing rate was high. Naplex doesn't mean crap, talk to preceptor of CNCP students and you'll know why they get a bad rap.

Panda Express.... 2 item combo half fried rice, half chow mein, angus beef and orange chicken. I answer the questionnaire on the receipt and get a 3rd item free, Kung pao chicken. Now all the CNCP students can experience that.
 
The pharmacy school in Fresno remade their website and came back with a new name. I think they were called Central Valley Pharmacy School years back. I guess the CNCP students were lied to about their dean retiring. The ex-CNCP dean brought over another faculty member from CNCP.
 
David Hawkins, profiteer and opportunist?

It's a perfect business model...open a pharmacy school, screw some students over, jump ship after failing to get accredited like every other school, force them to start over and enroll at another school that you opened a few years later.

Lather, rinse, repeat.... profit!!
 
I think it was called Central California School of Pharmacy back in 08.
 
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Anyone have the count on potential new schools in CA?

1. Claremont College
2. Long Beach
3. North Hollywood
4. Fresno

if we got from 8 to 12 new schools in the next decade, i don't know what will happen.. nothing good....
 
It's already pretty bad in Sac because of CNCP, last year people found jobs even if it took a little bit, right now people are still jobless.
 
steveysmith54 said:
Anyone have the count on potential new schools in CA?

1. Claremont College
2. Long Beach
3. North Hollywood
4. Fresno

if we got from 8 to 12 new schools in the next decade, i don't know what will happen.. nothing good....
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Claremont... you mean Keck Graduate Institute in Claremont, CA? It's actually in joint consideration with Chapman Univ. in Orange, CA.

AFAIK, the Claremont Colleges system isn't opening a school.

As an aside, the Keck-Chapman joint school is going to be a force to be reckoned with and will be considered a top school within 10 years. Gut feeling, no data, just putting it down now.
 
confettiflyer said:
Claremont... you mean Keck Graduate Institute in Claremont, CA? It's actually in joint consideration with Chapman Univ. in Orange, CA.

AFAIK, the Claremont Colleges system isn't opening a school.

As an aside, the Keck-Chapman joint school is going to be a force to be reckoned with and will be considered a top school within 10 years. Gut feeling, no data, just putting it down now.
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I admit their website looks super professional and the idea sounds good but I really don't know how they're gonna land their students jobs in industry. Industry is haaaaardly hiring PharmDs especially in CA where there isn't too much industry to begin with. Also the're in super-saturated Western/Loma Linda territory with UCSD in the south and USC up north...I dunno how they're gonna get good rotation sites...
 
Jackie B said:
I admit their website looks super professional and the idea sounds good but I really don't know how they're gonna land their students jobs in industry. Industry is haaaaardly hiring PharmDs especially in CA where there isn't too much industry to begin with. Also the're in super-saturated Western/Loma Linda territory with UCSD in the south and USC up north...I dunno how they're gonna get good rotation sites...
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Oh I didn't even know about the website, but here's the basis for my opinion on why I think they will be an awesome school.

1) KGI has a really good MBS (2-yr master's level degree) with generally good relationships with pharma and consulting firms.

2) Chapman has a boatload of money. They were about to drop $50M+ to buy the Crystal Cathedral & associated properties at bankruptcy not too long ago. With that kind of $$ you could sway rotation sites your way.

3) Location is going to be a positive...why work in crappy Pomona (Western) or in the buttcrack of nowhere (Loma Linda) when you can work in beautiful downtown Orange in one of the most desirable areas of the state (Orange County)? You can simultaneously recruit good faculty and upgrade their position and lifestyle. Recruitment will be a breeze.*

*once it moves to Orange; granted, claremont is a decent place.

I don't think the industry push is a big deal...we do need more pharmacists who have an industry mind-set, but you'll get the majority of grads going into traditional clinical/community work.

Their ultimate killer product would be a 5yr combined PharmD/MBS degree.
 
steveysmith54 said:
Anyone have the count on potential new schools in CA?

1. Claremont College
2. Long Beach
3. North Hollywood
4. Fresno

if we got from 8 to 12 new schools in the next decade, i don't know what will happen.. nothing good....
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There is also going to be a school in Oakland, Samuel Merritt, it will be another legit program. The university has been around about 100 years and the have one of the oldest DPM programs. Pharm.D's are going to be standing at all the freeway on ramps with signs "Will Fill Pills for Pizza". There won't be enough jobs! Somehow we need to slow down the new schools.
 
any updates on this school's progress?

I know a friend who is going to a newer school that is being run worse than cal northstate. That is not hyperbole, if you can believe that is possible.

The teachers have been making a mass exodus and the ACPE doesn't seem to care.

What happens with cal northstate, coming on the heels of the debacle at midway in kentucky, will likely influence pharmacy education quite a lot.

Bernie Madoff will be looking into opening a school of pharmacy for inmates.
 
no updates, but i met a lot of CNCP students at CSHP this weekend at my booth. Maybe 1-2 standouts, 4-5 snoozers (like...stop talking so i can go find better students), and 2-3 really awkward ones. Maybe it was just bad luck. One particular standout was really bad, they got a red "X' on our sign-in sheet after the showcase was over.
 
confettiflyer said:
no updates, but i met a lot of CNCP students at CSHP this weekend at my booth. Maybe 1-2 standouts, 4-5 snoozers (like...stop talking so i can go find better students), and 2-3 really awkward ones. Maybe it was just bad luck. One particular standout was really bad, they got a red "X' on our sign-in sheet after the showcase was over.
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Bad in what sense?
 
rxlea said:
Bad in what sense?
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1) Asking obvious questions. "So where are you located?" I'm like...uhm, it's on our banner, poster, AND flier.

2) Going on and on about how you love pharmacy...love love love love love.... and when I ask what about it you love, you don't really know.

3) Coming to talk to me at the beginning, then coming back at the end and asking the same questions you asked me 2 hours ago. (this was my red X student).

4) The intangible...I'd think in my head "wow you have no idea what's going on"

I think I was objective though, I didn't know what school these students went to until maybe 4-5 questions in or when they signed the sheet. Name tags were usually obscured by note pads and stuff.


On the upside, I had a lot of great conversations with UOP and UCSF students. Those kids know what's up. I personally walked 3 of them to other programs and introduced them to my resident colleagues at other programs.
 
confettiflyer said:
On the upside, I had a lot of great conversations with UOP and UCSF students. Those kids know what's up. I personally walked 3 of them to other programs and introduced them to my resident colleagues at other programs.
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Let me guess: they are girls and they are cute. :smuggrin:
 
BMBiology said:
Let me guess: they are girls and they are cute. :smuggrin:
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Haha yes they were girls, and yes they were cute...because they were so intelligent, hahaha.

But c'mon, it's pharmacy. The odds of you ending up talking to a cute female pharmacy student that goes to school in California = 100%. You know how it goes, us dudes are outnumbered!
 
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