California Northstate

[FutureFACS]

Hi I was wondering what you all thought about this school? This year I applied and got on some waitlists but no acceptances (LizzyM 72). I have worked on my app a lot in the meantime and think I have a much better shot for 2016. However, I am tempted to apply to Cal Northstate, as it seems like a unique opportunity. Of course, I am hesitant because I want to be able to not shut the door on any competitive specialties in the future (ie ENT, ortho)...

I filled out the primary application, and they sent me a secondary, so I am debating on what to do from here.

The way I see it, the 3 biggest cons for me are. 1. no one knows what the curriculum will be like, 2. reputation/for profit 3. price tag.

input?

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[OllieDog]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/california-northstate-gains-accreditation.1142846/

 

[claduva94]

You will have to take out private loans. Not worth it IMO.

 

[Banco]

with a LM of 72 and good activities you should have a shot at the vast majority of MD schools. I think you should reapply, this new school is unproven.

 

[unnumzaan]

OP your signature says you attended 3/4 IIs, was there a reason?

 

[FutureFACS]

OP your signature says you attended 3/4 IIs, was there a reason?

Great question! The fourth interview was for an non-NIH funded MD/PhD program, which I would have had to fork over the cash for medical school while not being able to pay back loans until after doing the PhD (and really residency). While I am interested in research, I ultimately feel that it wasn't the best fit for my career goals to do this. I hate to say debt is a factor, but it is. After considering the program I decided it was best to decline the interview offer and let the focus on other candidates

 

[NeuResurgens]

The best way to describe my disposition towards Cal Northstate is "extreme suspicion." I don't have a lot to base them on, but right now my intuition places them somewhere between DO schools and Carribbean schools, probably closer to the latter (since I actually respect DO schools).

 

[Banco]

If you've improved over your weaknesses from last cycle then you should have a good shot this cycle. getting 4 IIs is not bad at all, and if you can fix your app you should be able to get an acceptance this time.

 

[FutureFACS]

If you've improved over your weaknesses from last cycle then you should have a good shot this cycle. getting 4 IIs is not bad at all, and if you can fix your app you should be able to get an acceptance this time.

Yeah I think I really addressed the lack of clinical experience I had last time around

 

[Banco]

Yeah I think I really addressed the lack of clinical experience I had last time around

Then don't sell yourself short, 1 year is a drop in the bucket compared to your whole career.

 

[FutureOncologist]

I would work on the app and reapply. Take the gap year and add some new schools that aren't for-profit like CA Northstate. Mayo is opening up a new medical school in AZ, with a few new private schools coming in.

Also, I don't think you applied smartly. My LizzyM was 72 as well and I got 2 acceptances.

 

[bc65]

If this were my only acceptance, I would go to this school in a heartbeat. You will graduate from this school with a US MD degree.

It's an accredited US school, and no accredited school has ever lost its accreditation, to my knowledge. Both the school and the accreditation bodies will work hard to see that it doesn't happen here. Sure, the for-profit aspect is a bit troubling, but it's accredited, so I wouldn't worry too much. I'm just guessing here, but it probably makes corporate regulations easier to manage. I doubt that this will be a big moneymaker for anyone. Almost all schools loose money and rely on donations, so I can't imagine that anyone plans on getting rich off this school.

There are new schools every year. Four years from now, when you graduate, it won't be the newest school around anymore. 10 years from now, it won't be a new school at all, and no one will know or care when you went to school.

You will be something of an unknown quantity when you apply for residencies, but many schools outside the top 20 or 30 are unknown to most residency program directors, just as most colleges are unknown to most med schools. So when you apply, the quality of your education and knowledge will be based primarily on your Step scores, just as they are for most everyone else. The faculty will be able to write letters and make phone calls on your behalf to the people that they know, at their alma maters, just as they would if they were teaching somewhere else.

Look, it's not as if you're turning down a full ride at HYS to go here, right? It's an accredited, US MD school, shiny and new. It's not the Caribbean.

As for the loans: If I understand the loan issue correctly, subsidized loans are not available now, but will probably be available later.

 

[UncomfortablyNumb]

I've been trying to contact ANYONE in their office for three days. Seriously. No one answers calls or returns emals. Their admissions line doesn't even accept messages. This is a HUGE red flag for me.

 

[northernlights15]

Their application for Fall 2015 matriculation is through formstack…why does that make me cringe?

 

[UncomfortablyNumb]

If anyone is wondering. It took me three days and about 25 phone calls to finally get a response. They do not have fee waivers for their fall 2015 class. Their excuse is that they aren't going through AMCAS.... A contractual obligation isn't why schools give fee waivers.

They told me they are already filling interview spots for the beginning of July!

 

[samac]

If this were my only acceptance, I would go to this school in a heartbeat. You will graduate from this school with a US MD degree.

It's an accredited US school, and no accredited school has ever lost its accreditation, to my knowledge. Both the school and the accreditation bodies will work hard to see that it doesn't happen here. Sure, the for-profit aspect is a bit troubling, but it's accredited, so I wouldn't worry too much. I'm just guessing here, but it probably makes corporate regulations easier to manage. I doubt that this will be a big moneymaker for anyone. Almost all schools loose money and rely on donations, so I can't imagine that anyone plans on getting rich off this school.

There are new schools every year. Four years from now, when you graduate, it won't be the newest school around anymore. 10 years from now, it won't be a new school at all, and no one will know or care when you went to school.

You will be something of an unknown quantity when you apply for residencies, but many schools outside the top 20 or 30 are unknown to most residency program directors, just as most colleges are unknown to most med schools. So when you apply, the quality of your education and knowledge will be based primarily on your Step scores, just as they are for most everyone else. The faculty will be able to write letters and make phone calls on your behalf to the people that they know, at their alma maters, just as they would if they were teaching somewhere else.

Look, it's not as if you're turning down a full ride at HYS to go here, right? It's an accredited, US MD school, shiny and new. It's not the Caribbean.

As for the loans: If I understand the loan issue correctly, subsidized loans are not available now, but will probably be available later.

A school in Purto Rico lost their accerediation in the 2000's and one in California closed down before they could lose it.

I would apply broadly and have that one in your broad application sweep.

 

[bc65]

one in California closed down before they could lose it.

Thanks for the correction. Do you have any more information on the California school? What happened to the students?

 

[Abraxas65]

I would apply broadly and have that one in your broad application sweep.

I'm about 99% sure this isn't true, the last medical school to close in California MD or DO was back in the 1920s.

 

[Goro]

I concur with the three top quotes. Something about this school is setting off my radar. My gut is telling me that the Sacramento-based Drexel post-bac program decided to say "hey, let's open a medical school"

The best way to describe my disposition towards Cal Northstate is "extreme suspicion." I don't have a lot to base them on, but right now my intuition places them somewhere between DO schools and Carribbean schools, probably closer to the latter (since I actually respect DO schools).

I've been trying to contact ANYONE in their office for three days. Seriously. No one answers calls or returns emals. Their admissions line doesn't even accept messages. This is a HUGE red flag for me.

Their application for Fall 2015 matriculation is through formstack…why does that make me cringe?

Oral Roberts' School of Medicine in OK was the last US med school to go belly up, in 1989.

A school in Purto Rico lost their accerediation in the 2000's and one in California closed down before they could lose it. .

The UCI medical school was a DO school until it changed over to the MD school in the 1960s. I highly respect my DO colleagues but having heard the story, I have some admiration for the ruthlessness of the California Medical Association in the way they nearly extirpated DOs in the state of CA. Must be the wargamer in me.

I'm about 99% sure this isn't true, the last medical school to close in California MD or DO was back in the 1920s.

While there are probably legions of applicants who will happily take an MD from a unknown or low quality MD school over a high quality DO school, I suspect that unless CNU screws up royally in the next few years, they'll have no problem filling their seats. But I also suspect that a cadre of applicants will prefer a DO school over a for-profit and/or new school for a few years. RVU, after all, has no problem filling their seats.

 

[samac]

I'm about 99% sure this isn't true, the last medical school to close in California MD or DO was back in the 1920s.

I apologize I got Kent confused with Oral Robert's in 1990. Oral Robert's shut down before it could be revoked in Oklahoma but Kent shut down in the 20's then reopened in the late 20's or early 30's.

Thanks for the correction. Do you have any more information on the California school? What happened to the students?

I apologize for my mistake to you too.
I know the Puerto Rican students transferred elsewhere.

 

[samac]

Oral Roberts' School of Medicine in OK was the last US med school to go belly up, in 1989.


The UCI medical school was a DO school until it changed over to the MD school in the 1960s. I highly respect my DO colleagues but having heard the story, I have some admiration for the ruthlessness of the California Medical Association in the way they nearly extirpated DOs in the state of CA. Must be the wargamer in me.



While there are probably legions of applicants who will happily take an MD from a unknown or low quality MD school over a high quality DO school, I suspect that unless CNU screws up royally in the next few years, they'll have no problem filling their seats. But I also suspect that a cadre of applicants will prefer a DO school over a for-profit and/or new school for a few years. RVU, after all, has no problem filling their seats.

Love how you timed that right with my correction! Lol

 

[Abraxas65]

While there are probably legions of applicants who will happily take an MD from a unknown or low quality MD school over a high quality DO school, I suspect that unless CNU screws up royally in the next few years, they'll have no problem filling their seats. But I also suspect that a cadre of applicants will prefer a DO school over a for-profit and/or new school for a few years. RVU, after all, has no problem filling their seats.

I will be honest the only reason I would attend CNU over a DO program is the fact that it would place me and fiance within 2 hours of both of our families and the fact that there is a possibility of starting this fall. In my mind CNU is near the bottom of the rankings when it comes to MD schools and I expect that this could hurt me when it comes to applying to residency but I believe (maybe hope if a better word) that a student who attends CNU and gets good Step scores will still have a chance of matching into any area of medicine.

quick edit: Since you are here Goro, for students that do end up attending CNU what would you recommend they do to help ensure they have the best chances possible when it comes time to match into residency programs.

 

[Goro]

Location is everything!
I will be honest the only reason I would attend CNU over a DO program is the fact that it would place me and fiance within 2 hours of both of our families and the fact that there is a possibility of starting this fall. In my mind CNU is near the bottom of the rankings when it comes to MD schools and I expect that this could hurt me when it comes to applying to residency but I believe (maybe hope if a better word) that a student who attends CNU and gets good Step scores will still have a chance of matching into any area of medicine.


I think that they will need to be very independent; good self-studiers and go-getters.
quick edit: Since you are here Goro, for students that do end up attending CNU what would you recommend they do to help ensure they have the best chances possible when it comes time to match into residency programs.

 

[northernlights15]

I concur with the three top quotes. Something about this school is setting off my radar. My gut is telling me that the Sacramento-based Drexel post-bac program decided to say "hey, let's open a medical school"








Oral Roberts' School of Medicine in OK was the last US med school to go belly up, in 1989.


The UCI medical school was a DO school until it changed over to the MD school in the 1960s. I highly respect my DO colleagues but having heard the story, I have some admiration for the ruthlessness of the California Medical Association in the way they nearly extirpated DOs in the state of CA. Must be the wargamer in me.



While there are probably legions of applicants who will happily take an MD from a unknown or low quality MD school over a high quality DO school, I suspect that unless CNU screws up royally in the next few years, they'll have no problem filling their seats. But I also suspect that a cadre of applicants will prefer a DO school over a for-profit and/or new school for a few years. RVU, after all, has no problem filling their seats.

How is AAMC even okay with a Formstack application? I know MSAR collects data through AMCAS/AAMC so how is that going to work? There's not going be any data for the 2015 applicant pool unless CNU self reports it to them.

Is that even allowed? What are your thoughts on this? @gyngyn

 

[Abraxas65]

Location is everything!
I will be honest the only reason I would attend CNU over a DO program is the fact that it would place me and fiance within 2 hours of both of our families and the fact that there is a possibility of starting this fall. In my mind CNU is near the bottom of the rankings when it comes to MD schools and I expect that this could hurt me when it comes to applying to residency but I believe (maybe hope if a better word) that a student who attends CNU and gets good Step scores will still have a chance of matching into any area of medicine.


I think that they will need to be very independent; good self-studiers and go-getters.
quick edit: Since you are here Goro, for students that do end up attending CNU what would you recommend they do to help ensure they have the best chances possible when it comes time to match into residency programs.

Location really is everything. I will that there are some DO schools that I am planning on applying to (if CNU doesn't work out) that I would prefer to attend over CNU but location and starting a year earlier than a DO program would allow me is simply too enticing.

Thanks for the advice it is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

 

[unnumzaan]

In my mind CNU is near the bottom of the rankings when it comes to MD schools and I expect that this could hurt me when it comes to applying to residency but I believe (maybe hope if a better word) that a student who attends CNU and gets good Step scores will still have a chance of matching into any area of medicine.

Let's be real, CNU isn't near the bottom. It is the bottom.

 

[Abraxas65]

Let's be real, CNU isn't near the bottom. It is the bottom.

I think it really isn't possible to pick an absolute top or bottom, but I agree no matter the ranking CNU is in the basement.

 

[SoonToBeDrG]

Let's be real, CNU isn't near the bottom. It is the bottom.

I believe that's reserved for the Caribbean schools.

 

[gyngyn]

How is AAMC even okay with a Formstack application? I know MSAR collects data through AMCAS/AAMC so how is that going to work? There's not going be any data for the 2015 applicant pool unless CNU self reports it to them.

Is that even allowed? What are your thoughts on this? @gyngyn

My thoughts on this are not fit for a public forum.

 

[Goro]

You can plays PM me, colleague and get a sympathetic ear!

My thoughts on this are not fit for a public forum.

 

[gyngyn]

You can plays PM me, colleague and get a sympathetic ear!

I try to retain my professional demeanor in all circumstances.
I'm afraid even a private discussion is not yet possible on this topic!

 

[Goro]

That's saying a lot!

I try to retain my professional demeanor in all circumstances.
I'm afraid even a private discussion is not yet possible on this topic!

 

[skougess]

For those following along, our resident adcoms don't even feel they can discuss this school without blowing their professionalism. Adcoms are a stone's throw away from residency program directors who will be giving (or not giving) you a job in 4 years. Keep that in mind while applying to a school like this!

 

[Abraxas65]

My thoughts on this are not fit for a public forum.

Could you clarify if this is directly related to how the 2015 class is being selected (not going through AMCAS) or if this is directed more generally at the school as a whole. I ask as student applying to this program. If you dont feel you can respond I completely understand, but I would appreciate all advise at this time from people with experience in medical school administration/teaching.

 

[Goro]

The sage gyngyn can answer this better than I can, but in my schools' experience, new schools are problematic for PD because their products are unknown.

For those following along, our resident adcoms don't even feel they can discuss this school without blowing their professionalism. Adcoms are a stone's throw away from residency program directors who will be giving (or not giving) you a job in 4 years. Keep that in mind while applying to a school like this!

 

[gyngyn]

Could you clarify if this is directly related to how the 2015 class is being selected (not going through AMCAS) or if this is directed more generally at the school as a whole. I ask as student applying to this program. If you dont feel you can respond I completely understand, but I would appreciate all advise at this time from people with experience in medical school administration/teaching.

I have a deep sympathy for those who feel compelled to apply here.
I have long been hoping for a medical school (and more residencies) in the valley.
Sadly, my review of the charter faculty, the business model and the slap dash admissions plan has left me aghast.

 

[Abraxas65]

The sage gyngyn can answer this better than I can, but in my schools' experience, new schools are problematic for PD because their products are unknown.

This is exactly my largest worry with this school. I feel that I could hedge my bets by doing as many away rotations as possible and simply work my ass off and try to get letters from attendings that work at better known programs. But I dont know how realistic this is.

 

[Goro]

The wise gyngyn isn't the only one aghast.
Can some of you, as an intellectual exercise, dig up a publication list of the CNU faculty? I'll wager it's um, thin.
One of my clinical Deans tells me that CMU has robbed UCD of rotation spots.

I have a deep sympathy for those who feel compelled to apply here.
I have long been hoping for a medical school (and more residencies) in the valley.
Sadly, my review of the charter faculty, the business model and the slap dash admissions plan has left me aghast.

 

[MTGPGE]

My two cents: the letters after your name don't nearly matter as much as the education that supplied them. If this were my only acceptance, I'd choose a year off to become a better applicant and grow as a person before applying to the schools that I really wanted to go to.

 

[786doctor]

I understands folks' concern about the for-profit status of this school. I was wondering why people think that the quality of education will be low here? Surely, LCME accreditation must mean something, even if they only provide the bare minimum, I have a hard time imagining they wouldn't want their students to succeed, get high scores and place in competitive residencies.
Idk, only time will tell I guess.

 

[FutureFACS]

I understands folks' concern about the for-profit status of this school. I was wondering why people think that the quality of education will be low here? Surely, LCME accreditation must mean something, even if they only provide the bare minimum, I have a hard time imagining they wouldn't want their students to succeed, get high scores and place in competitive residencies.
Idk, only time will tell I guess.

The LCME thing definitely carries some weight, however, I think the concern is that residency PDs will overlook candidates for individuals from more established schools. I mean, who would want to be held back because they went to a new school. Ie. wouldnt it suck if some rockstar med student went to a school like this, did everything he/she could, got a 240+ step 1 and still couldnt match to their specialty of choice?

 

[allantois]

The LCME thing definitely carries some weight, however, I think the concern is that residency PDs will overlook candidates for individuals from more established schools. I mean, who would want to be held back because they went to a new school. Ie. wouldnt it suck if some rockstar med student went to a school like this, did everything he/she could, got a 240+ step 1 and still couldnt match to their specialty of choice?

Judging from the matching lists from 3 schools in my home state of FL, which graduated their first classes in the past 2 years, it does not appear like these "new" schools held anyone back from matching into competitive specialties at competitive institutions.

 

[FutureFACS]

Judging from the matching lists from 3 schools in my home state of FL, which graduated their first classes in the past 2 years, it does not appear like these "new" schools held anyone back from matching into competitive specialties at competitive institutions.

Touché, but you also must consider what effect, if any, the for profit aspect would have. It seems to leave a bad taste in some people's mouths

 

[ERK123]

I have a hard time imagining they wouldn't want their students to succeed, get high scores and place in competitive residencies.

As a for-profit school this place has made it clear that they care about generating profit above all other considerations. Therefore, I do not have a hard time thinking that they care very little about whether their students end up matching into their desired residency programs.

 

[bear2roo]

If in 4 years, if a resident PD saw a CNU graduate who has average step 1 and more or less decent or good rotation grades and good LORs vs an AUC grad with a high step 1 and great rotation grades and also good LORs, who would be in a better position?

 

[Buzzlightyear33]

If in 4 years, if a resident PD saw a CNU graduate who has average step 1 and more or less decent or good rotation grades and good LORs vs an AUC grad with a high step 1 and great rotation grades and also good LORs, who would be in a better position?

The Touro-CA graduate

 

[786doctor]

If in 4 years, if a resident PD saw a CNU graduate who has average step 1 and more or less decent or good rotation grades and good LORs vs an AUC grad with a high step 1 and great rotation grades and also good LORs, who would be in a better position?

That's tough to say. Even if you were to decide which one is in a better position, you've added so many variables to the equation that you wouldn't know if the reason one has the advantage over the other is because of Step1 score, differences in quality of LoR, or school attended.

 

[gyngyn]

Judging from the matching lists from 3 schools in my home state of FL, which graduated their first classes in the past 2 years, it does not appear like these "new" schools held anyone back from matching into competitive specialties at competitive institutions.

Those schools had US trained faculty members with ties to their specialty communities.

 

[doctordoctor14]

Just curious. If this school was not a for-profit, do y'all believe it would be a significantly better choice for students?
I'm wondering how much of the hate/negativity towards this school has to do with it's for-profit status, and how much has to do with the faculty, curriculum, etc.?

 

[hoihaie]

Just curious. If this school was not a for-profit, do y'all believe it would be a significantly better choice for students?
I'm wondering how much of the hate/negativity towards this school has to do with it's for-profit status, and how much has to do with the faculty, curriculum, etc.?

for me, it's the faculty. Even when compared to other new schools, CNU's faculty list looks very... weak