Choosing between Ross and U of Minn.

[bluesky11]

I got into both Ross and U of MN and am having a hard time deciding between the two! Would I be stupid to turn down a US vet school?!?!?!

I really liked U of Minn. when I visited. There is lots of hands on experience starting 1st year and the students were all very enthusiastic about the school. I want to go into mixed animal practice and I feel both schools will give me a good education.

I really want to go to Ross, it will be a bit less expensive, and I would finish a bit sooner, and get to complete my last clinical year in the states (maybe go to U of MN then).

My concern is if I will regret going to Ross because it is an international school… I am scared that it may be looked down upon by future employers/opportunities and I am nervous that I may be overlooked as an applicant because I graduated from Ross. I have never met a Ross graduate so I am having a hard time getting advice.


Does anyone have any insight on turning down a state school for a Caribbean school? In addition, how do you think Ross graduates are perceived in the US?

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[twelvetigers]

The big downside will be the additional test you have to take as a Ross graduate. I've heard that it's long, not much fun, and quite expensive. I'm thinking $6,000 but I can't remember... maybe someone else knows for sure? I also can't remember what the test is called, but it's a requirement on top of the NAVLE (which all vet students must take no matter what.)

As far as differences in perception goes, there are probably a few people who will turn their noses up at Ross, but I think that most realize that you get an excellent education there as well. Ross graduates, in my experience, are just as likely to be outstanding vets as graduates from any other (US, etc) school.

ETA: Here is a thread about the additional test - the PAVE, I think?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=596994

And here is a long and well-thought-out thread about Ross reputation:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=594591

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[GeeQued]

I got into both Ross and U of MN and am having a hard time deciding between the two! Would I be stupid to turn down a US vet school?!?!?!

I really liked U of Minn. when I visited. There is lots of hands on experience starting 1st year and the students were all very enthusiastic about the school. I want to go into mixed animal practice and I feel both schools will give me a good education.

I really want to go to Ross, it will be a bit less expensive, and I would finish a bit sooner, and get to complete my last clinical year in the states (maybe go to U of MN then).

My concern is if I will regret going to Ross because it is an international school… I am scared that it may be looked down upon by future employers/opportunities and I am nervous that I may be overlooked as an applicant because I graduated from Ross. I have never met a Ross graduate so I am having a hard time getting advice.


Does anyone have any insight on turning down a state school for a Caribbean school? In addition, how do you think Ross graduates are perceived in the US?

Well I would look into the qualifications you'll have to meet coming from an out of country school. At one time I was told that doing your last year clinicals in the states voided the requirement to take the enterance exam international students must take but was talking to a Ross graduate who then said that was no longer true.

As far as Ross being a good school the vet I work with went there several years ago and wished she had been able to go to school in the states. I've heard from more current graduates that it ends up being more expensive then even an already expensive state school because the cost of living is a lot more (simple commodities are very expensive and some you have to have shipped over). They also mentioned that they don't tread to far from campus being that crime can be more targeted on foreigners (St Georges there is a much larger off campus crime issue but still a concern at Ross)

Everyone has different experiences there, just like some students love the in country school they went to others have had bad experiences. I would weigh in everything, cost both tuition, cost of living and look at goods not found there that you cant live without, for instance my sister and I will only eat one and only one salad dressing (stupid i know) but its a powder mix that you make youself from hidden valley and when my sister was at the University of Sydney we had to ship it over which was very expensive. Look at crime rates, more so of the foreign country, costs of travel, visas, buying new furniture, climate, theres SO much to consider when going out of the country since you are in ways limited to what you can bring.

In my case I didnt bother on applying out of the country cause I would skip out on vet school before I went overseas, not cause they are bad schools but because I cant take my horses with me, that and my dad's health is far from stellar and I needed to be a quick plane flight away from home, not a cross seas trip.

Just come to Minnesota with me

 

[rugbychick16]

I would go with Minnesota, its a great school and I really don't think you will regret choosing it.

 

[bluesky11]

Yeah, the The Educational Commission for Foreign Veterinary Graduates (ECFVG test) is expensive ($6000) and takes awhile to complete.
For all of you others considering Ross there is another test option that qualifies you to take the NAVLE... I am planning to take the PAVE that is accepted in over 40 states and costs only about $600, Ross seems to be straightforward with getting their students qualified to practice in the US. After their sixth semester, the students take the Quantifying Examination, which is the first part of the PAVE certification. It tests basic biochem/physio/histo that you learned up until then, and the second part of the PAVE requires you to spend one year at a state school in clinics, which is part of the Ross curriculum.

I was quite worried about the testing portion of a Ross education at first, but now I feel more confident that the extra test will not be a problem. I am looking into their NAVLE pass rates because I think that will also give me some insight on how prepared the Ross graduates are. I don't want to make the wrong choice and regret going to Ross down the line.

 

[animallove]

There are a couple of things to consider with this decision. I have worked with Ross graduates, and they make just as good veterinarians. I have also heard a lot of people say that Ross graduates seem on par or even better prepared than graduates from U.S. schools. However, just at twelvetigers said there will be a snobbish few who will turn their noses up just because it is an international school. Most people do realize that it is an excellent school.

What you do have to take into consideration with Ross is even though you said it is cheaper it might actually not be. Did you figure in the cost of the additonal forgein test(I think it is a few thousand.)? On top of that, you will also have a more expensive flight back and forth to Ross to see your family and such then it would be back and forth from MN. So, make sure you take that into consideration. You go to Ross for seven semesters and then 3 semesters in the states. You are really only finishing a semester early then because you are going an extra semester there. So just decide if finishing it early is worth it.

If you come to find that you don't care about money, then you just have to decide what is the best school for you. If you feel like you would get a better education at MN then go there or vice versa. If you do out your expenses and figure you will save a lot of money going to Ross and you don't care where you go then I would say pick the cheapest.

I know a few graduates from there and not anyone has any problem working after they graduate from Ross. People hire them just as well. A Ross student will even get a U.S. residency with no problem. I know one. The DVM I worked for went to Ross and then opened up his own hospital and is doing well! So, just go where you think you will do best! Hope that helps.

 

[chris03333]

Yeah, the The Educational Commission for Foreign Veterinary Graduates (ECFVG test) is expensive ($6000) and takes awhile to complete.
For all of you others considering Ross there is another test option that qualifies you to take the NAVLE... I am planning to take the PAVE that is accepted in over 40 states and costs only about $600, .

I would recheck this because 40 seems high (unless more have now decided to accept it) and $600 also sounds lower....

edit:

see here:http://www.aavsb.org/PAVE/PAVEHome.aspx#StateRecognition

 

[twelvetigers]

Zpinkpanther is a forum member who is currently at Ross (you'll have seen her in the threads above) and I'm sure she wouldn't mind if you PMed her with a few questions. I think Jeterfan is out there as well.

There are a few UMinn students on the forum as well. So, you can make a bit of a direct comparison in that way. If cost is a factor you've already addressed, then you should consider location, lifestyle, ability to visit home, ability to bring pets along, and even the weather! Shorts, or a parka?

 

[VAgirl]

I would definitely go to a US school over Ross. There is nothing wrong with Ross as a school, but there's more fuss to deal with. Why mess with it if you don't have to?

My 2 cents.

 

[Mistoffeles]

Just to chime in . . .

The ECFVG is $6000 (as others have mentioned), and is approximately 6 days. The only states that don't require it to gain a practice license for non-accredited foreign schools are NY and OH. If you plan to never work anywhere else (i.e., I know some vets who are never ever ever going to leave Brooklyn), then it's a non-issue. BUT . . . if you plan to live elsewhere, then you should be prepared to take it as soon as possible after graduating . . . because the knowledge part tests minutiae from your pre-clinical stuff (beyond NAVLE detail), in addition to having the practical component. If you fail a particular section, you may retake that section. But you have to wait a period of time, and it costs extra money. I would think that the further out of school you are, the harder the test would be.

I think that the PAVE (also previously mentioned) is an option which is less onerous.

In addition, and this is important, I think that Ross expects to get their AVMA accreditation within the next year or two . . . which means that if you start this coming year, you will be considered to have graduated from an AVMA accredited school, and will not need either test.

 

[zpinkpanther]

Hiya! I'm already looking at SDN when I should be studying for finals, so I might as well make myself useful while I'm at it.

Just to make a minor correction, the PAVE is only accepted in about half the states (I can't remember the exact number, but it should be on the website), and it costs about $1000. Several states are working on accepting it, though (it's a long process having to do with legislature and such)- for example, we just got an e-mail from one of our Deans today saying that Iowa just started accepting it. To get a PAVE certificate, you take a qualifying exam during your 6th semester here (retake in 7th if you fail- but our pass rate is something like 80%) and that along with having passed your clinical year will get you the PAVE certificate, and qualify you to take the NAVLE. If you want more details, a representative from PAVE came to speak at Ross last semester, so I've got the lowdown.

The ECFVG is a several day long, apparently grueling exam, including clinical applications. The good thing is that it's accepted everywhere, but it's apparently butt-kicking and costs $6000.

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would go to Minnesota. Not to diss my school, but I'm not the biggest fan of living on this island, and would much rather live in the states. Also, I don't think coming here will actually save you money in the long run. The tuition looks cheaper, but you have to factor in the fact that it's per semester, so the cost per year is 3 times that- plus the cost of living here is a lot higher than in the states (my roommate paid the EC equivalent of $10 US for a box of cereal the other day!). So, it may or may not end up being cheaper, depending on how cheaply you can live. I try to live cheaply, but it's really difficult.

So basically, I think that you should base your decision on whether you would be happie here or in Minnesota. Besides that, the big factor is the extra exams that you'd have to take. I've worked with a few doctors who went to Ross, and they were very well regarded (one of them is one of the top exotics vets in the state, and I think in the country, too). I'd recommend making a pro and con list.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me! Good luck with your decision, and I hope you find what makes you happy.

EDIT: In regards to what Mistoffeles just posted, I also know a few more things about Ross's accreditation progress. Our Dean sent a progress report to the AVMA COE and received a reply- they're apparently very happy with Ross's progress in fixing the few things that they cited as the reasons why Ross isn't up to snuff with US schools. There are a few more minor details to work out, but the Dean is tentatively planning on requesting a site visit in September. And FYI, if Ross is accredited before you graduate (doesn't matter if you're in 1st semester or about to graduate), you'll be considered an AVMA school graduate. That's the cliff's notes version.

 

[twelvetigers]

In addition, and this is important, I think that Ross expects to get their AVMA accreditation within the next year or two . . . which means that if you start this coming year, you will be considered to have graduated from an AVMA accredited school, and will not need either test.

I would NEVER count on that. They've been expecting the AVMA accreditation for a while now... and they certainly could get it soon... but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Mistoffeles]

I would NEVER count on that. They've been expecting the AVMA accreditation for a while now... and they certainly could get it soon... but I wouldn't count on it.

well, yes . . .

 

[zpinkpanther]

I would NEVER count on that. They've been expecting the AVMA accreditation for a while now... and they certainly could get it soon... but I wouldn't count on it.

I 100% agree, despite what I just said in my previous post. Don't count on Ross being accredited. I'm certainly not. Plan on taking the PAVE or ECFVG in order to practice in the States, if you decide to go to Ross.

 

[redsteven]

Interesting thread guys. Keep the responses coming

 

[TSUJC]

Zpinkpanther, just out of curiosity I have a few questions about Ross.

A vet that I know went to Ross but transferred to Washington after his 1st year. He said there was a lot of crime on the island. Do you feel "safe" there?

What is the pass rate on the ECFVG? How many times can you retake it?

 

[david594]

You say ross is cheaper but I doubt you factored in the difference in loan options.

From the financial planning guide on this page: http://www.rossu.edu/veterinary-school/admissions/financiainfo.cfm

Because Ross is a foreign medical school, our students are not eligible for the additional $20,000 Unsubsidized portion of the Stafford Loan. The combined aggregate borrowing limit of $138,500 for the subsidized and unsubsidized loans includes any prior outstanding undergraduate/graduate Stafford Loans.

Not including any living expenses, the cost of ross is $160650 according to their website.

Of that it appears you can only take out a max of $25,500 in subsidized stafford loans(6.8%), and $36,000 in unsubsidized stafford loans(6.8%). You are then looking at the next $77,000 in grad plus loans(8.5%). You will then need to find atleast $22,000 in private loans just to cover your school expenses. And you still have yet to touch the cost of living expenses for 2.5 years on the island and 1 year back in the US for your rotations, which will again all be in more expensive private loans.


On the other hand with minnesota you are allowed the higher loan limits. So you can borrow $40,500 a year at (6.8%) and the rest of your expenses at (7.9% since Minn is a direct loan lender) up to the $224,000 loan limit.

I bet if you run the numbers with the interest factored in and even a short 10 year payback you will realize you will come out financially ahead going to MN.

 

[pyxystyx]

The ECFVG is $6000 (as others have mentioned), and is approximately 6 days.

AND, by the way, can take up about a year of your time waiting to take it on a waitlist.
You can read the International thread in the Veterinary forum- those graduates talk all about it, in detail.

The accreditation status is the only reason people would turn up their nose at your education, not because of it's international status. (Some have turned up their noses at Western students for the same reason- just being honest.)
The final year in clinicals at a US school is the same process anyone coming from any non-accredited school has to go through to get their license in the US- whereas Ross just arranges it for you, graduates from other schools (like Mexico, or the Phillipines, etc.) who don't have those agreements with the US schools have to go tromping down to those offices and arrange it themselves.
No doubt at Ross you'd get a good education, but of all the Ross graduates I've talked to, all of them would have taken the opportunity to study in the States if they could. And almost all of them said it would have been cheaper, even in an out-of-state situation, once you factor in the cost of living on the island.

My opinion- I'm going to an international school as well, but it's AVMA accredited. I would pick an accredited school over a non-accredited school any day of the week. Just my opinion...

 

[david594]

The final year in clinicals at a US school is the same process anyone coming from any non-accredited school has to go through to get their license in the US- whereas Ross just arranges it for you, graduates from other schools (like Mexico, or the Phillipines, etc.) who don't have those agreements with the US schools have to go tromping down to those offices and arrange it themselves.

Someone correct me if I am wrong about this, but this statement isnt true. Talking about foreign graduates in general(not specifically ross). The 1 clinical year in the US is only necessary if you want to go the PAVE route.

If you do the ECFVG, you don't need to do a clinical year here. Just sign up and wait for the test, pay the big money, and then pass the 3 day exam.

 

[littlehooves]

Just my opinion, I was having sort of the same delemma when I was deciding where to apply. There were alot of benefits to both int'l schools and non-int'l....but the kicker that got me was that Ross isn't accredited yet. Although you will finish sooner (as you mentioned)- its not really that much sooner in the long run.

I've done quite a bit of research on Carib schools, and there are alot of sucessful vets out there that went to Ross or SGU. But for me, the bottom line is that it is not accredited.

I applied to 3 international schools (on top of my one 'local' school), but they are all in Australia and all have accredation with the AVMA.

So from my perspective yes, you will finish sooner...but after you take all your exams and extra exams, will you not have finished in the same time that everyone else has?

 

[Ninnerfish]

I work with three vets who graduated from Ross and they are every bit as proficient at their job as the non-Ross grads at the same clinic. From what they've told me the island experience is a bit different from anything you'd get in the states (when one vet told me about the "centipede rock" she kept next to her bed to squish the giant centipedes that found their way into her house, I almost yakked). There is the extra test to consider, as others have mentioned, and I think there are restrictions on which states you are allowed to practice in before you've successfully taken the test. The part of Ross that makes me hesitate to apply is that you have to live in the campus dorms your first six months and pets aren't allowed, so I would have to find something to do with mine until I could move off campus.

 

[twelvetigers]

And, getting pets there in the first place often proves enough of a hassle that many people don't bother at all.

 

[flyhi]

Someone correct me if I am wrong about this, but this statement isnt true. Talking about foreign graduates in general(not specifically ross). The 1 clinical year in the US is only necessary if you want to go the PAVE route.

If you do the ECFVG, you don't need to do a clinical year here. Just sign up and wait for the test, pay the big money, and then pass the 3 day exam.

David, The one year clinical is absolutely necessary to graduate. Students at Carib schools come back to do their final year (or 3 semesters) at a US school. Ross, St. George's and St. Matthew's have contracts with many US Schools (up to like 23 at Ross and SGU) to place their students. You take the NAVLE (like every other US grad) and then as a foreign grad you can take the PAVE or the ECFVG.

I BELIEVE there is possibly a way to get around the 3 day practical exam for the ECFVG if you do an internship after graduation...not 100% sure about this though.

 

[david594]

David, The one year clinical is absolutely necessary to graduate. Students at Carib schools come back to do their final year (or 3 semesters) at a US school. Ross, St. George's and St. Matthew's have contracts with many US Schools (up to like 23 at Ross and SGU) to place their students. You take the NAVLE (like every other US grad) and then as a foreign grad you can take the PAVE or the ECFVG.

I BELIEVE there is possibly a way to get around the 3 day practical exam for the ECFVG if you do an internship after graduation...not 100% sure about this though.

I was talking about foreign graduates(as a whole), not caribbean schools. The vast majority of foreign veterinary schools do not require students to come practice in the US for 1 year before they can graduate.

Carribean schools are specifically geared towards students planning to practice in the US, and setting them up for take the PAVE.

Now if you go talk about foreign veterinary graduates from non-carribean non-avma accreddited schools, those students who had gotten a complete education in their own country could sit for the ECFVG without having to do a clinical year in the US>

 

[flyhi]

(St Georges there is a much larger off campus crime issue but still a concern at Ross)

Just out of curiosity, where did you get this information? i have heard quite the opposite. I would feel more safe on any of the 3 Carib campuses than at Western (no offense anyone) or some other places in our US of A.

As with any school, i think it is always recommended to visit the campus and see how you like it and if it fits your needs.

You say ross is cheaper but I doubt you factored in the difference in loan options.

you are assuming they are taking out loans..... If they are, i agree with your logic.

To the OP, i am going to attend SGU (which i'm thrilled about, BTW), however...if i had applied and been accepted to a US school that was not outrageously more expensive, i would go there. The accreditation may become an issue for you, and why take the chance? It is exciting to travel abroad for school, but it has its challenges as well.

why not talk to some Ross grads currently practicing and ask them what they would do? Might be informative and interesting.

Best of Luck to you

 

[flyhi]

I was talking about foreign graduates(as a whole), not caribbean schools. The vast majority of foreign veterinary schools do not require students to come practice in the US for 1 year before they can graduate.

Carribean schools are specifically geared towards students planning to practice in the US, and setting them up for take the PAVE.

Now if you go talk about foreign veterinary graduates from non-carribean non-avma accreddited schools, those students who had gotten a complete education in their own country could sit for the ECFVG without having to do a clinical year in the US>

Yes, i see that now. Sorry, cross-eyed from studying. I do think you are right about that. They already have their DVM...never heard of the foreign grads doing a year of clinicals in the US..

 

[Caninerepro]

The good, the bad, and the downright ugly. I have worked with several Ross grads, they are all very competent people, and as smart and successful as the rest. The public has no idea where you went to school, so that will not matter to them at all! At Ross you do not have to take that nasty foreign vet 3 day test, only a exam after the island part of your education on the prereqs to clinical education. I have heard it is not that bad at all really.

Now that said, St. Kitts is a third world country almost. I have personally heard from almost every person who went there that you do not dare step off the campus. It is simply expected that you WILL be attacked by the locals at some point if you do so enough times, and quite frankly every female vet I have talked to who went there (5 or 6) stated that they were sexually assaulted by a local while there. That is the dirty little secret about Ross. I did myself do a lot of calling around to check out Ross.

Now, I am not trying to start a flame war here, I myself was ready to apply there before thankfully I got a few acceptances from US schools. The shock, trust me I was as surprised as the next guy. I think Ross itself does an excellent job educating its students and the faculty there are top notch -- most are semi-retirees from US schools enjoying the island sun. Also, as it is not a US school, they can let you do some things, and more things than you will be able to do within the laws of the US. Also you get more mixed animal practice with a variety of species there. But, you need to think long and hard about how badly you want to go to vet school, if it can wait for just one more application cycle before you apply to Ross, and what you can and cannot live with. After going to Ross you will be a totally competent practitioner. I have a friend who's dad graduated from the very first class of DVMs from Ross, he is now the head of the NY State Equine Practitioners board.

Anyhow, come to MN, my smiling face will be there too, and we can all whine about how much it is costing us to live in the paradise of the frozen barren northlands! Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[GeeQued]

Just out of curiosity, where did you get this information? i have heard quite the opposite. I would feel more safe on any of the 3 Carib campuses than at Western (no offense anyone) or some other places in our US of A.

As with any school, i think it is always recommended to visit the campus and see how you like it and if it fits your needs.

That was straight from 3 students that went there (2 have graduated and one is in their 3rd year). One is a fellow coworker and she comes back during the summer and shared the horror stories of the crime once you left the perimeter of the campus, to the point that she won't leave the campus at all anymore.

But like I said in my earlier post each person has different experiences what one may experience isn't always the same at another.

 

[pyxystyx]

I was talking about foreign graduates(as a whole), not caribbean schools. The vast majority of foreign veterinary schools do not require students to come practice in the US for 1 year before they can graduate.


Now if you go talk about foreign veterinary graduates from non-carribean non-avma accreddited schools, those students who had gotten a complete education in their own country could sit for the ECFVG without having to do a clinical year in the US>

Well a former DVM boss of mine gave me that info. on foreign vet. grads in general. I also saw it on a foreign graduate from a non-carribean, non-accredited school's resume (when he came in applying for a job, to pass the time while he waited another year to take the ECFVG). He spent an extra year at a US accredited school completing the final clinical year with them. I dunno why he would have done that if it wasn't necessary, but I could still be wrong.

 

[chris03333]

Well a former DVM boss of mine gave me that info. on foreign vet. grads in general. I also saw it on a foreign graduate from a non-carribean, non-accredited school's resume (when he came in applying for a job, to pass the time while he waited another year to take the ECFVG). He spent an extra year at a US accredited school completing the final clinical year with them. I dunno why he would have done that if it wasn't necessary, but I could still be wrong.

I believe that part of the ECVFG process involves doing a year at an accredited school.

 

[bluesky11]

Thanks to everyone for the comments!

Another interesting thing I have learned from current Ross students is that most of them feel that they are as prepared if not MORE prepared then the students in state schools. This was reassuring for me. I think the curriculum at Ross is really good, but the problem seems to be with the island life itself. Some students have told me that they feel targeted by island locals. Their cars have gotten broken into and they are the target of some racist comments…. It seems like to some it is a harsh environment to live in for 2.3 years. The students still leave campus but they may not leave as much as they would if they felt more welcomed and safe. However, there are so many different personalities, some students may LOVE the island, and others may just not fit well there…

I am going to visit the island on Monday to hopefully get a better idea of the school and the island. I will report back for all those out there considering Ross!

 

[dyachei]

Not too long ago I talked to a current fourth year who attended SMU. He said he loved the experiences he had while he was there and that he learned a lot but it was really hard to come into a system where other people already sort of knew what was going on for the clinical year. He didn't know procedures for the school, or where things were and he said it was hard to adjust to since you're flooded that year anyway. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Hopeful07]

(St Georges there is a much larger off campus crime issue but still a concern at Ross)

I'm sorry, this is just simply not true. I attend St. George's and sure if you're a female walking home from the bar at 1am, then yes, you might be assaulted. But if you have any common sense at all, and you don't walk around at night alone or leave your doors unlocked, you will be fine. That goes for a lot of places in the United States as well -- if you're walking home at night alone in the US, you'd probably be assaulted too. But overall, I feel just as safe here (I live off campus) as I do back home in the States. We have a few Ross transferees here at SGU and from what I hear, Grenada is much safer than St. Kitts.

To the OP: Although I love St. George's, and I've heard some good things about Ross as well; if it were me, I would choose a US school over a Caribbean school. You will get the same education at both schools, but you will have to jump through less hoops graduating from a US school. Not to mention the plane flights are quite expensive.

 

[GeeQued]

I'm sorry, this is just simply not true. I attend St. George's and sure if you're a female walking home from the bar at 1am, then yes, you might be assaulted. But if you have any common sense at all, and you don't walk around at night alone or leave your doors unlocked, you will be fine. That goes for a lot of places in the United States as well -- if you're walking home at night alone in the US, you'd probably be assaulted too. But overall, I feel just as safe here (I live off campus) as I do back home in the States. We have a few Ross transferees here at SGU and from what I hear, Grenada is much safer than St. Kitts.

To the OP: Although I love St. George's, and I've heard some good things about Ross as well; if it were me, I would choose a US school over a Caribbean school. You will get the same education at both schools, but you will have to jump through less hoops graduating from a US school. Not to mention the plane flights are quite expensive.

I'm sorry but thats coming from personal experiences of 3 separate students, 2 guys and 1 girl and 2 of which have graduated and all 3 have much more common sense than most and most of the attacks that have occured have been during the day. You might have just been lucky or them unlucky but being that they've been there for a lot longer I'm gonna trust their experiences since I doubt they would make it up.

 

[Hopeful07]

Just curious about what kind of attacks are you talking about and where have the attacks been? I'm not going to argue with you, and I'm not saying that the people you have talked to lied about anything. We get crime reports of everything that happens on and off campus if it has anything to do with SGU students. There is a fair amount of petty theft here. And you are right, I have only been here since last August. But in my personal experience so far, it's relatively safe.

I'm sorry but thats coming from personal experiences of 3 separate students, 2 guys and 1 girl and 2 of which have graduated and all 3 have much more common sense than most and most of the attacks that have occured have been during the day. You might have just been lucky or them unlucky but being that they've been there for a lot longer I'm gonna trust their experiences since I doubt they would make it up.

 

[VAgirl]

Another interesting thing I have learned from current Ross students is that most of them feel that they are as prepared if not MORE prepared than the students in state schools.

I find this hard to believe. It probably sticks in my craw just as much as anyone from any of the US schools saying they're more prepared than anyone else from a different US school, so maybe it's not US vs. Caribbean, just one school vs. another.

Still, maybe if they were out in practice and had been for a long time, they could assess whether or not they're more prepared than their counterparts who went to US schools. But if they're still current students, presumably still on the island at school, how could they have had sufficient exposure to students from US vet schools to know in any meaningful way that they're more prepared? All they can tell is about their own experience and level of preparedness. So I could believe it if they said that they personally felt sufficiently prepared. But making comparisons seems inappropriate...they just wouldn't have enough information.

[/end rant]

 

[GeeQued]

Just curious about what kind of attacks are you talking about and where have the attacks been? I'm not going to argue with you, and I'm not saying that the people you have talked to lied about anything. We get crime reports of everything that happens on and off campus if it has anything to do with SGU students. There is a fair amount of petty theft here. And you are right, I have only been here since last August. But in my personal experience so far, it's relatively safe.

The girl was running in the afternoon and was assualted by a local. She had been running along the street but there were few people out or in that area, it was around 9am. She had also been harassed numerous times in town, people obviously knew she wasn't a local and therefor specifically targeted. The two guys I know one of them was robbed at knife point while in town closer to evening hours and they both had their apartments (or wherever they were renting at the time (they werent roommates so 4 different break ins the first two not as bad)) broken into and thrashed while he was a school twice (different places each time). There were a few thefts throughout their time there. The one guy graduated 4 years ago and the girl 2 and I believe the other is finishing up this term.

As I said in my earlier posts as well that everyone has different experiences just as some students get robbed and assaulted at nearly every US school, the difference is that students stand out quite a bit more on the island and are therefore easier to target. Some locals find the university as an asset, brings money to their economy, others see them as an easy victim being in an unfamiliar place.

 

[david594]

I believe that part of the ECVFG process involves doing a year at an accredited school.

Source:
http://www.avma.org/education/ecfvg/ecfvg_pp_overview.asp

1. Provide proof (diploma and final transcripts) of graduation from an AVMA-listed college of veterinary medicine. The ECFVG will seek verification of the applicant's credentials by direct request to the college from which the individual claims graduation.

2. Provide proof of comprehension and ability to communicate in the English language by attaining passing scores on the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL), Test of Spoken English (TSE), and Test of Written English (TWE) or and the internet-based TOEFL (iB-TOEFL) as administered by Educational Testing Service of Princeton, NJ; or the International English Language Testing System (IELTS) as administered by the University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate, the British Council, and IDE Education Australia; or the Canadian Academic English Language Assessment (CAEL) as administered by Carleton University in Ontario, Canada. Candidates whose native language is English are exempt from the English language examinations provided they submit documentation attesting to at least three years full-time attendance at a secondary (high) school at which the complete language of instruction was English. Native language means the common language of an individual's country of birth. A degree from a US college or university is not considered adequate proof of English language ability.

3. Attain a passing score on the Basic and Clinical Sciences Examination (BCSE), OR prior to July 2007 the North American Veterinary Licensing Examination (NAVLE), OR prior to spring 2000, the National Board Examination (NBE) and Clinical Competency Test (CCT). Please note that ECFVG candidates MUST first complete Step 2 (English language ability) to be eligible to take the BCSE. Step 3 is considered complete when the ECFVG verifies a passing BCSE score has been obtained OR the ECFVG receives an official score report indicating a passing score on the NAVLE (April 2007 and previous administrations only) or the NBE and CCT from the Veterinary Information Verifying Agency (VIVA) of the American Association of Veterinary State Boards.

4. Attain a passing score on all sections of the Clinical Proficiency Examination (CPE) approved by the ECFVG OR prior to July 1, 2007 ONLY, successfully complete a postgraduate evaluated clinical year.

Look at #4. It looks like they stopped allowing the post graduate year for ECFVG 2 years ago.

 

[Hopeful07]

The girl was running in the afternoon and was assualted by a local. She had been running along the street but there were few people out or in that area, it was around 9am. She had also been harassed numerous times in town, people obviously knew she wasn't a local and therefor specifically targeted. The two guys I know one of them was robbed at knife point while in town closer to evening hours and they both had their apartments (or wherever they were renting at the time (they werent roommates so 4 different break ins the first two not as bad)) broken into and thrashed while he was a school twice (different places each time). There were a few thefts throughout their time there. The one guy graduated 4 years ago and the girl 2 and I believe the other is finishing up this term.

As I said in my earlier posts as well that everyone has different experiences just as some students get robbed and assaulted at nearly every US school, the difference is that students stand out quite a bit more on the island and are therefore easier to target. Some locals find the university as an asset, brings money to their economy, others see them as an easy victim being in an unfamiliar place.

Yeah thefts are pretty common. It really depends on where you live here. There are a few neighborhoods that are a lot safer than others. Lance Aux Pines, for example, has hourly patrol. Places that are walking distance to the bars are not going to be as safe as some other places. But I know that Grenada's crime rate is not higher than St. Kitts. And from what I've heard, I've heard of a LOT worse happening in St. Kitts than what I have heard of in Grenada.

 

[Caninerepro]

Yeah thefts are pretty common. It really depends on where you live here. There are a few neighborhoods that are a lot safer than others. Lance Aux Pines, for example, has hourly patrol. Places that are walking distance to the bars are not going to be as safe as some other places. But I know that Grenada's crime rate is not higher than St. Kitts. And from what I've heard, I've heard of a LOT worse happening in St. Kitts than what I have heard of in Grenada.

Look I am not trying to slam anyone. Chris Pasquini is a personal hero of mine! For those who do not understand this last comment, do some research, and you have probably not taken too many anatomy classes yet, or done too well in them. I come from CSU, the current anatony capital of the world (except for Ross re. Pasquini and Spurgeon who both taught/got their PhDs from here). But, Caribbean vet schools are taught in third world countries whose locals have no concept of the fact that without us students they would be no better off than say Cuba.

Look. I played hockey professionally before I decided to pursue my true love of vet med. I am over thirty and male, also I from previous experience know when, and when not to pursue a fight. So I doubt I would have had a problem on St Kitts or Grenada. But I just want to let those looking into SGU or Ross know that you will have to live in a "bad" part of the world, and if that is not to your liking, you might want to look elsewhere.

 

[zpinkpanther]

To answer TSUJC's question: I don't know what the pass rate on the ECFVG is, for 2 reasons. 1) The exam isn't given here on the island, as the PAVE is, so it's more difficult for Ross to have the statistics and 2) most Ross students choose to take the PAVE. You may be able to find that statistic online somewhere, but the question was asked last semester at the PAVE presentation and the administration didn't know.

Also, there is quite a bit of crime on St Kitts. It is a third world country, and sometimes we get singled out because we're white and obviously not islanders. For example, sometimes they set up police checkpoints where they check for your license and registration, but they usually let the islanders drive through while they stop us. It's not a big deal (although if you happen to forget your license, you're going to jail, which is SCARY), but it's just the basic attitude that most of the islanders have towards the Ross students. And yes, crime is a major issue. One of the girls in my building was home alone last weekend (her roommate had flown home for the weekend) and her dog woke her up barking, and apparently scared off he guy that was trying to break in. Most apartments that students rent have security bars, which is helpful, as is having a dog, since the islanders are deathly afraid of them. A group of students was hiking through the rainforest earlier this semester and met up with a guy carrying a machete who tried to attack them- luckily they had a dog with them, or who knows what would have happened.

I'm not trying to scare anyone off from coming here. Just like anywhere else that has crime, if you're aware of your surroundings and use the buddy system, you'll probably be fine. It's just another thing to remember if you're thinking about coming here.

 

[zpinkpanther]

Chris Pasquini is a personal hero of mine!

I *heart* my Pasquini/Spurgeon anatomy book!

 

[Hopeful07]

Look I am not trying to slam anyone. Chris Pasquini is a personal hero of mine! For those who do not understand this last comment, do some research, and you have probably not taken too many anatomy classes yet, or done too well in them. I come from CSU, the current anatony capital of the world (except for Ross re. Pasquini and Spurgeon who both taught/got their PhDs from here). But, Caribbean vet schools are taught in third world countries whose locals have no concept of the fact that without us students they would be no better off than say Cuba.

Look. I played hockey professionally before I decided to pursue my true love of vet med. I am over thirty and male, also I from previous experience know when, and when not to pursue a fight. So I doubt I would have had a problem on St Kitts or Grenada. But I just want to let those looking into SGU or Ross know that you will have to live in a "bad" part of the world, and if that is not to your liking, you might want to look elsewhere.

Pasquini is one of my favorite professors here. Even Pasquini says that SGU is the "Kinder and gentler University". (;

But all jokes aside, yes Grenada is a third world country. I'm not saying that it isn't, I'm simply saying that I don't agree with the generalization that Grenada is less safe than St. Kitts.

I'm not going to lie, I'm a fairly small girl and I would not be able to fight off attackers. But to be honest, I'm always with people if I'm out and about. If you go into St. George's (the city), don't go alone, it's not safe. But I spend most, if not all, of my day on campus in classes.

If you come here, expecting to find a Walmart, Target, and Mcdonalds (although we do have KFC), you're not going to find it. Somedays there's no milk or cheese in the grocery store. Somedays there's cows walking in the middle of the road. Everyday you'll wait a lot longer for food, most days you won't get great service. Somedays you hear of a robbery near your apartments. But all in all, it's really not that bad. You just have to be safe about what you do, and be aware of your surroundings.

But in the end, we end up with a DVM just like everyone else.

 

[Hopeful07]

I *heart* my Pasquini/Spurgeon anatomy book!

Me too! We have two Anatomy books - Pasquini's which was for small animal and this black Anatomy book which is terrible for large animal. I used Pasquini's for his small animal anatomy class and now that I'm doing large animal, I still only use his. (; The little doodles throughout the book make me laugh everytime.

 

[VAgirl]

But in the end, we end up with a DVM just like everyone else.

But the original point of this thread was debating between going to a Carib school or a UC AVMA accredited school when the OP had the CHOICE between the two. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who chose Ross/SMU, etc. if they had a US option. For all the different reasons: safety, proximity to home and family, cost, difficulty moving pets over there, etc. etc. etc.

No one's knocking the Carib schools. Just maybe saying why pick it if you have a choice...

 

[zpinkpanther]

If you come here, expecting to find a Walmart, Target, and Mcdonalds (although we do have KFC), you're not going to find it. Somedays there's no milk or cheese in the grocery store. Somedays there's cows walking in the middle of the road. Everyday you'll wait a lot longer for food, most days you won't get great service. Somedays you hear of a robbery near your apartments. But all in all, it's really not that bad. You just have to be safe about what you do, and be aware of your surroundings.

Sounds basically just like St Kitts. My roommate goes through a lot of milk, and we always have to go to the store to get it on Thursday or Friday, because early in the week they always run out.

Out of curiosity, does Grenada also use EC currency?

I love the doodles in Pasquini, too. He must be fun as a professor! Maybe I chose the wrong Carib school?

 

[sumstorm]

But, Caribbean vet schools are taught in third world countries whose locals have no concept of the fact that without us students they would be no better off than say Cuba.

What a wonderful reminder of why Americans are so adored in other parts of the world.

Not every individual or culture idolizes the American 'pursuit of happiness.'

 

[Hopeful07]

What a wonderful reminder of why Americans are so adored in other parts of the world.

Not every individual or culture idolizes the American 'pursuit of happiness.'

Yep! You would be surprised at how rude some of the students here are to the locals. Some Americans down here feel they deserve anything they want and they can do anything they want without any consequences. Really, you have to respect them because it's their country, and we are just visitors.

Zpinkpanther - Yes we do use EC here too. I kind of like EC, because when I go back to the states I see the dollar prices and think "Woah, that's SO cheap!" haha.
And Pasquini IS a fantastic professor. He always made class interesting and everyone was pretty much always laughing.

Bluesky - Please let us know what you think of the island when you come back!

 

[Caninerepro]

What a wonderful reminder of why Americans are so adored in other parts of the world.

Not every individual or culture idolizes the American 'pursuit of happiness.'

Oh man (or liberated whatever woman) Look SS, you and I are NEVER going to agree on anything much less social policy, so I think it is time for you to get off your broom and just accept the fact the the two of us are simply not going to agree on anything. Stop worrying about me! I am sure that both of us will grow up to be competent practicioners, and will make enough money to keep us in the way we want, or used to want, to be accustomed to.

As to Pasquini's book, smile. He is pretty much considered the devil here at Colorado State. I am not sure what exactly transpired when he left, but while his book is in essence the underground bible, especially for the grad level courses, you do not dare mention his name, nor be seen with his not so little blue book in your hands if you know what is best for your future academic career here. Funny thing is, we still have a few of his posters hanging in the lab, and there are pictures of both he and Spurgeon drawing hanging beside the door to the lab. For those who do not know, Thomas Spurgeon taught here at CSU for more years than many care to remember, and Chris Pasquini got his PhD at least, and I believe his DVM as well at CSU. However there must have been a really ugly divorce, and Pasquini left to teach at Ross. Spurgeon must have followed a few years later after he retired. Apparently P now is an administrator at St. George. Beyond that I know nothing other than the fact that his name is Mudd here. You might want to ask him why, but also let him know that while he himself may be the antichrist at CSU, there are still plenty of students here who use his book on a daily basis.